Unevolved Attitudes to Sex?

Drops of Jupiter

Hi there,
I am not even sure if this is the correct forum for this but see how it goes!
A while ago I was in Italian airport waiting to fly back to Dublin. There was a group of Irish guys probably late 20s waiting also. They were being quite loud and obnoxious but no big deal. However a group of female air stewards walked by and they all started clapping and wolf whistling. So cringe inducing! Everybody male and female had that "embarrassed for them" look. A French guy who I was talking to said I feel sorry for Irish women if this is your average Irish man. I assured him that not all Irish guys but was thinking about it on the way home.

Do others think some that Irish men and women have still quite repressed attitudes to sexuality and sex in general and suffer from quite unevolved thinking in this regard? Maybe it’s hang-over from our Catholic guilt? Other things that make me think this might be true from a female perspective

1) During the past sunny spell – the number of grown men I have witnessed falling off their bikes/jamming on the brakes beacuse there is a girl wearing a short skirt
2) Running home to post a thread about seeing some cleavage in the local shop (this applies to those over 16)
3) Drooling/leering at women’s bodies as opposed to admiring or appreciating
4) Men thinking you want to marry them/have their babies because you make small talk while waiting to get drinks at the bar. I don’t fancy you I am being friendly!
5) The Virgin/Whore Complex (very Catholic). If you sleep with them you are a whore if you don’t you are a frigid bitch/lesbian/tease.
6) Only being comfortable chatting up a girl after 10 pints
7) Bragging about all the chicks they fancy/want to shag but then practically peeing their pants when one of these girls speaks to them
8) Thinking that because you watch loads of porn this means you are sexually liberated
9) Presuming because a girl slept with them on the first date automatically means she is a whore and does that with every guy. Some guys I know really liked girls they slept with on the first night but wouldn’t see them again because they had to be sluts. How do they know this to be true? It’s taken as gospel and given no further thought.

A lot of this smacks of lazy thinking to me. Obviously if you are a teenager this doesn’t apply to you. I am talking about men in their late 20’s early 30s who act like this. I would like to hear others views on this.

Please note this is not male bashing thread. I hate all those generalisations that all men are this and all women are this. It kills any meaningful debate. I am a female so I am speaking from a female perspective. My above examples are based on some Irish men and thankfully there are exceptions to this rule.

There is something about men and women here – they don’t fully understand feel comfortable with each other. I have noticed that in other places in Europe there seems to be a more relaxed relationships between the sexes in general. Single sex schools/Catholic history have a lot to answer for I think. Anyone else have views on this?

Table Top Joe

Drops of Jupiter wrote: »

Single sex schools/Catholic history have a lot to answer for I think.

Couldnt agree more,i never noticed how backwards things were between the sexes were here until i travelled,we're very immature when it comes to sex i think,women are fine asking guys out in other countires,approaching them in bars(and sober to boot!)and guys in other countires chat up girls.....without 10 pints in them:eek:(im guilty of this too tbh)we definitley need to grow up i think,when i first started travelling and girls approached me in bars i honestly thought they were either prostitutes or after something at first,they couldnt possibly be genuine,girls dont do that!....thankfully i learned that i was the weird one not them


But yeah i went to a single sex school and i hated it,made me very awkward around girls for a long time,if i ever have kids ill be sending them to a mixed school,its definitley not a good thing to separate boys and girls at that age,thats why im crap at chatting up girls anyway,so next time some guy trys it on with you after a rake of pints dont be too hard on him it could be me!;)

Drops of Jupiter

But yeah i went to a single sex school and i hated it,made me very awkward around girls for a long time,if i ever have kids ill be sending them to a mixed school,its definitley not a good thing to separate boys and girls at that age,thats why im crap at chatting up girls anyway,so next time some guy trys it on with you after a rake of pints dont be too hard on him it could be me!;)[/QUOTE]

Am with you on the mixed schools things. It's not healthy to segregate the sexes like that - bound to create issues and hang ups!

If I meet you after 10 pints promise to be nice (ish):D

Table Top Joe

Drops of Jupiter wrote: »

If I meet you after 10 pints promise to be nice (ish):D

Well im getting better at it as i get older,i got talking to a girl a few weeks ago after only about 5 pints,as you can imagine,i was bursting with pride at this achievement










Not that i got anywhere with her mind you,still though,vast improvment

The_Kew_Tour

Good points OP

I sometimes fall into category 6. I am quite shy when comes to girls.

Dont seem have problem scoring in last few years but I cant for life of me chat up girl without bit of help from a drink to ease a nerve or hundred.

But yes men can be bit immature. Was going with girl for year, anyway she had large (nice though:D) breasts. Anyway any night we go out I just see guys looking down her top or staring at her even though they see me and know I am with her. Be honest did not bother me as we both loved each other but I know plenty mates who would been annoyed by it.

Went on flight there few weekends ago anyway there was these 3 (I taught) respectful girls got on plane quite good looking one them very good looking anyway then bunch lads got on and they seem to know them. Had bit banter at start even though they were loud. Anyway once flight was up and away girls got bit loud and good looking one was loud and coming out with songs like "get you cock out for the lads" such cringe thank god flight was only 40 minutes. Really annoying and dam right embarrassing too.

Just giving example of each.

Wibbs

Every culture has some issue with this, not just our own. The latins, Spanish, Italian men can be very sleazy and pushy to Irish sensibilities.

Drops of Jupiter

Wibbs wrote: »

Every culture has some issue with this, not just our own. The latins, Spanish, Italian men can be very sleazy and pushy to Irish sensibilities.

It's interesting Wibbs that these countries you mention are also traditionally Catholic. I agree that some Italians in particular can be sleazy but some of them seem to genuinley appreciate women in a different way and are a bit more relaxed about male/female relations.

I think maybe that they don't have the same reliance on drinking culture/pubs so its becomes more normal to meet and talk to women without the need for alcohol. So much of the male/female interactions happen in the pub In Ireland so I think that doesn't help matters.

miss5

Wibbs wrote: »

Every culture has some issue with this, not just our own. The latins, Spanish, Italian men can be very sleazy and pushy to Irish sensibilities.

Absolutely while Irish men definitely have their faults when it comes to the opposite
sex, It is certainly not limited, Some european men are incrdedibly vulgar when it comes
to initiating contact. Regarding staring and ogling Irish men are no where near as obvious
as middle eastern men. What is socially acceptable differs. Having travelled quite a lot
I would have to say I've found Irish men more respectful than most.

Drops of Jupiter

adrian280582 wrote: »

Went on flight there few weekends ago anyway there was these 3 (I taught) respectful girls got on plane quite good looking one them very good looking anyway then bunch lads got on and they seem to know them. Had bit banter at start even though they were loud. Anyway once flight was up and away girls got bit loud and good looking one was loud and coming out with songs like "get you cock out for the lads" such cringe thank god flight was only 40 minutes. Really annoying and dam right embarrassing too.

Just giving example of each.

I agree that it can work both ways -not just men.

Also, a few drinks relax us and make it easier to chat but part of the issue is we are not used to or comfortable socialising without alcohol in the mix in a lot of cases.

krudler

A group of lads being obnoxious, never! Have you ever seen a hen night in an airport or a restaurant or club? they'd put anything that a group of lads can do to shame.

1) During the past sunny spell – the number of grown men I have witnessed falling off their bikes/jamming on the brakes beacuse there is a girl wearing a short skirt

Same can be said when builders/workmen take their tops off during warm weather, theres some construction going on near where i work and the women in the office leer at them every chance they get, the good looking,built ones anyway.

3) Drooling/leering at women’s bodies as opposed to admiring or appreciating

See above, women are just as bad.

4) Men thinking you want to marry them/have their babies because you make small talk while waiting to get drinks at the bar. I don’t fancy you I am being friendly!

Do you realise how much it takes to chat to a girl in a bar and not make it seem like you're just trying to get into her pants, even if you are? Try talking to most women in a pub/club and you either get blanked, rejected or they just look at you with a bitchy look,as if how dare you talk to them.

5) The Virgin/Whore Complex (very Catholic). If you sleep with them you are a whore if you don’t you are a frigid bitch/lesbian/tease.

This I agree with, its a strange,male way of thinking.

6) Only being comfortable chatting up a girl after 10 pints

See above, it takes a lot to chat to a girl, and since most women wont chat up men, what else do ye expect us to do?

8) Thinking that because you watch loads of porn this means you are sexually liberated

I doubt any guy thinks that, you must be fast running out of tar and brushes with that statement.

9) Presuming because a girl slept with them on the first date automatically means she is a whore and does that with every guy. Some guys I know really liked girls they slept with on the first night but wouldn’t see them again because they had to be sluts. How do they know this to be true? It’s taken as gospel and given no further thought.

Again, stupid generalisation, I slept with my ex the first night we met, well first date, and it was because we were both comfortable with it, we went out for 3 years, I must've thought she was a slut the whole time then?

There are plenty of backwards female attitudes to sex/relationships as well, doesnt mean they're all the case for everyone.

Silverfish

Krudler, the OP covered that already when they said

Please note this is not male bashing thread. I hate all those generalisations that all men are this and all women are this. It kills any meaningful debate. I am a female so I am speaking from a female perspective. My above examples are based on some Irish men and thankfully there are exceptions to this rule.

The discussion is on men who DO think like that, nor was the OP saying that some women do not behave inappropriately, the OP just wants a discussion based on the points above, not a gender war I would assume. I myself have met MANY men who think along the lines of the points raised in the OP, however I do not believe all men think like this.

krudler

Sorry, missed that. Thats fair enough then. The whole slut/frigid thing has always baffled me, even as a teenager, it was the norm to go after a girl who you knew you'd be able to do things with you couldnt with a nice girl, but the nice girls were the ones you really wanted, its odd. Its the same where girls want a "bad boy" who'll provide them with drama constantly, as the guys who are genuinely nice are "boring".

bronte

Yeah, that Madonna/whore thing is very Irish.
I haven't seen it so prominent anywhere else.

Blobby George

Wibbs wrote: »

Every culture has some issue with this, not just our own. The latins, Spanish, Italian men can be very sleazy and pushy to Irish sensibilities.

I can definitely vouch for this behavior. I was out in a wine bar recently with my wife and we were having a fine evenings entertainment. I noticed this Italian greaseball eying up my wife all night. Sure enough I went for a toilet break well in to the evening and on my way back I see my man greasing his way in, even going so far as to hold my wife's hand. A bottle of 95 shiraz to the skull sorted him out. I never resort to physical violence but sometimes it's the only answer to these overly pushy sorts.

krudler

Blobby George wrote: »

I can definitely vouch for this behavior. I was out in a wine bar recently with my wife and we were having a fine evenings entertainment. I noticed this Italian greaseball eying up my wife all night. Sure enough I went for a toilet break well in to the evening and on my way back I see my man greasing his way in, even going so far as to hold my wife's hand. A bottle of 95 shiraz to the skull sorted him out. I never resort to physical violence but sometimes it's the only answer to these overly pushy sorts.

Not really, thats what bouncers are there for. Glassing someone is the "only answer" to them hitting on your wife?

Blobby George

krudler wrote: »

Not really, thats what bouncers are there for. Glassing someone is the "only answer" to them hitting on your wife?

Maybe you are the sort of bloke who gets walked all over by these pushy sorts. I'm not and I can tell you that my woman appreciated me standing up for her. I'm fairly sure most women feel the same about their men standing up for them.

krudler

Blobby George wrote: »

Maybe you are the sort of bloke who gets walked all over by these pushy sorts. I'm not and I can tell you that my woman appreciated me standing up for her. I'm fairly sure most women feel the same about their men standing up for them.

I'd happily stand up for my girlfriend, doesnt mean I'd resort to smashing a bottle over a guys head just for chatting her up, she's well able to handle herself when it comes to telling lecherous guys where to go without me needing to step in like shes my property that must be defended from other men.

jgr12

bronte wrote: »

Yeah, that Madonna/whore thing is very Irish.
I haven't seen it so prominent anywhere else.

The madonna/whore thing was used specifically in westerns for years, the same way the good/bad guys were represented by white/black so it must go back a lot further

Ickle Magoo

Hey OP,

Historically perhaps, not sure if Irish attitudes towards sex are particularly different to anywhere else these days. Inside a particular demographic in any country there is going to be a huge difference between the most and least sexually repressed and a host of reasons for that.

Tbh (no offence intended ), bearing in mind the huge influence conservative catholicism has had on the country & the power the church has held - particularly over past generations - I'm often surprised at how little evidence of sexual repression &/or how much comfort with sexuality there is now, I expected more (& less respectively!). So, in short, yes - the guys at the airport were cringeworthy and immature but that's not to say in a hundred airports around the world you wouldn't find exactly the same going on with guys of the same age from a hundred other nationalities.

SarahBeep!

Drops of Jupiter wrote: »

It's interesting Wibbs that these countries you mention are also traditionally Catholic.

Catholics have been sexually repressed for YEARS and right up until recently In Ireland...no contraception, condemning anything other than heterosexuality etc..

krudler wrote: »

Same can be said when builders/workmen take their tops off during warm weather, theres some construction going on near where i work and the women in the office leer at them every chance they get, the good looking,built ones anyway.

I was caught by a lad doing this the other day, he didn't seem to mind!

Blobby George wrote: »

Maybe you are the sort of bloke who gets walked all over by these pushy sorts. I'm not and I can tell you that my woman appreciated me standing up for her. I'm fairly sure most women feel the same about their men standing up for them.

krudler wrote: »

I'd happily stand up for my girlfriend, doesnt mean I'd resort to smashing a bottle over a guys head just for chatting her up, she's well able to handle herself when it comes to telling lecherous guys where to go without me needing to step in like shes my property that must be defended from other men.

You see, I agree with you both here. I'm the first girl to go on the whole independent woman rant but there are times when it's just nice to be looked after! It's primitive and ridiculous, I blame hormones. Blobby George, I read your post and though Awww, I wish a guy would do that for me. (Was hit on persistantly by a married man 15 years older than me out with our group of friends one night and my best male friend who's always willing to pose as my boyfriend if I need to get away from a guy wasn't out with us that night and I missed having him around to take care of me!)

We all want a Knight in Shining Armour not a fool in tin foil! Especially not one who's hauled up in front of the courts for GBH!!


And for the record, girls find it hard to approach guys in clubs too ya know!

SarahBeep!

dorothymantooth wrote: »

sarah you bold girl, are you a leerer?? just tell me where the site is and how did they look

I usually don't stare unless I have sunglasses on =P
But he was walking towards me witht he sun hitting off his lovely hint of a six pack and I just couldn't help myself :P
He wasn't young either! 30ies-ish. I'm quite sure having an 18 year old check him out made his day

opinion guy

Drops of Jupiter wrote: »

3) Drooling/leering at women’s bodies as opposed to admiring or appreciating

Um. Thats a pretty fine line you're drawing there (pun intended). Where exactly do you draw this line ?

Apart from that can I just say Blobby George and SarahBeep - your attitudes to casual violence are nothing short of disgusting.

SarahBeep!

opinion guy wrote: »

Apart from that can I just say Blobby George and SarahBeep - your attitudes to casual violence are nothing short of disgusting.

By no means do I condone casual violence. I clearly stated I don't want anyone hauled up in front of a judge on my behalf. If my Knight stayed on his horse and hit nobody that'd be top notch!

opinion guy

SarahBeep! wrote: »

By no means do I condone casual violence. I clearly stated I don't want anyone hauled up in front of a judge on my behalf. If my Knight stayed on his horse and hit nobody that'd be top notch!

Well forgive me for being confused, but the guy said he bottled someone in the head and you said "Awww, I wish a guy would do that for me"

SarahBeep!

opinion guy wrote: »

Well forgive me for being confused, but the guy said he bottled someone in the head and you said "Awww, I wish a guy would do that for me"

It was simply an 'Awww' for the lenghts he instinctivly went to so as to protect his other half. Not for the fact he could have killed that man.

opinion guy

SarahBeep! wrote: »

It was simply an 'Awww' for the lenghts he instinctivly went to so as to protect his other half. Not for the fact he could have killed that man.

You know what I'm tired - so maybe I'm missing something. But I'm really not seeing that distinction. It was a completely thuggish act - there's nothing awww about it.

SarahBeep!

opinion guy wrote: »

You know what I'm tired - so maybe I'm missing something. But I'm really not seeing that distinction. It was a completely thuggish act - there's nothing awww about it.

It wasn't the actual act, it was the fact he was looking after her. Same kinda feeling I got before when someone started shouting at me for no reason in a club, a friend stepped in front of me and said 'You speak to her like that, you deal with me.' No violence. Just him looking after me.

Ickle Magoo

Telling the guy to @!*$* off on her behalf would have been vaguely chivalrous, grabbing her hand back would have kind of been protecting her - standing behind her glaring while she threw the creeps hand off herself would have certainly been worthy of a cheer - championing some neandathal show of wimpy weakness by whacking the guy with a glass bottle without even asking why there is hand holding with a woman well equiped with elbows and knees of her own is not really worthy of an "awwww!", is it?

SarahBeep!

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Telling the guy to @!*$* off on her behalf would have been vaguely chivalrous, grabbing her hand back would have kind of been protecting her - standing behind her glaring while she threw the creeps hand off herself would have certainly been worthy of a cheer - championing some neandathal show of wimpy weakness by whacking the guy with a glass bottle without even asking why there is hand holding with a woman well equiped with elbows and knees of her own is not really worthy of an "awwww!", is it?

I would AGAIN like to point out the aww was not for the violence!

dorothymantooth

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Telling the guy to @!*$* off on her behalf would have been vaguely chivalrous, grabbing her hand back would have kind of been protecting her - standing behind her glaring while she threw the creeps hand off herself would have certainly been worthy of a cheer - championing some neandathal show of wimpy weakness by whacking the guy with a glass bottle without even asking why there is hand holding with a woman well equiped with elbows and knees of her own is not really worthy of an "awwww!", is it?

your right, a bottle is just thuggish, but can you understand the protection feeling?

Ickle Magoo

dorothymantooth wrote: »

your right, a bottle is just thuggish, but can you understand the protection feeling?

Not really my idea of protective feeling tbh...I'm not a big fan of guys feeling they have to protect me from other guys in pubs/club situations. I'm well able to make my own feeling clear and wield a cabernet sauvigon if necessary, it very rarely comes to that tho - in my experience most people are able to communicate effectively using the spoken word and I can make my own feelings well known without a boyfriend/date effectively p!ssing on me to mark his territory. Actually, I'd go so far as to say if someone did the whole knuckle dragging territory marking thing with me, especially using a heavy glass object on someone's head, I'd think they were ridiculously possessive, slightly unhinged & I don't think I'd ever want to see them again.

oicherider

Too many points here to talk about but in a nut shell this is what i reckon..

1) Women have absolutely no idea what it is like like to have to go up and talk to a woman that you fancy.. The Irish are not a race brimming with confidence to start with and after you have met a few "bitches" with their smart put downs im sure that if you have any insecurities you will think about 10 times before doing it again

2) As regards a girl sleeping with you on the first night.. Its not necessarily that you consider them as a whore.. Firstly.. What is there left to chase? Where is the intrigue? Secondly you may have the question in your head regarding how many people she has slept with.. If she slept with you on the first night then chances are that it wasnt really anything special for her.. If you are going out with a girl for a while before you do.. then chances are that it is..

3) I really dont think that fellas think that a girl is frigid if she doesnt sleep with them on the first night.. If a fella is interested in your personality, humour or if there is a connection.. He wont be thinking of sex the first night.. He will want to have the craic and spend time with you.. If they dont call you because you didnt sleep with them - they werent interested in you as a person in the first place

The soundest lads are the lads that either dont talk to you or that make a f*ck of it when they do because they are so nervous.. and the crazy thing is that girls go for the fellas that fill them with the ****e that they want to hear but most importantly "with confidence"...

I was lucky.. I met a fantastic and stunning girl and got to be friends with her before... well before marrying her!

SarahBeep!

Oh I'm well able to fight my own battles but it's nice to know you've someone looking out for you as well.
Get what I mean?

Ickle Magoo

Awwing & considering a guy assaulting someone who tries holding hands with his gf as a guy who'd be "looking out for you"? Nuh-uh, wouldn't see me for dust.

Professey Chin

Jesus theres some nonsense in here.

OP.Every country has the sleazy,aggressive,hollering,zero confidance in fellas.Its not an Irish thing, its just a male thing with some people.Me, im pretty quiet in general but I can talk to a girl drunk or sober without issue.Dunno if im the rule or the exception but anyway.

On other points, glassing/bottling is something that only a complete coward would do and nobody who ever does it deserves any form of respect or admiration or anything.All that has to be done is telling someone to move on.With some people you have to be firmer but the get the hint pretty fast.Having to resort to a weapon makes you nothing but a bitch

Raekwon

oicherider wrote: »

Too many points here to talk about but in a nut shell this is what i reckon..

1) Women have absolutely no idea what it is like like to have to go up and talk to a woman that you fancy.. The Irish are not a race brimming with confidence to start with and after you have met a few "bitches" with their smart put downs im sure that if you have any insecurities you will think about 10 times before doing it again

2) As regards a girl sleeping with you on the first night.. Its not necessarily that you consider them as a whore.. Firstly.. What is there left to chase? Where is the intrigue? Secondly you may have the question in your head regarding how many people she has slept with.. If she slept with you on the first night then chances are that it wasnt really anything special for her.. If you are going out with a girl for a while before you do.. then chances are that it is..

3) I really dont think that fellas think that a girl is frigid if she doesnt sleep with them on the first night.. If a fella is interested in your personality, humour or if there is a connection.. He wont be thinking of sex the first night.. He will want to have the craic and spend time with you.. If they dont call you because you didnt sleep with them - they werent interested in you as a person in the first place

The soundest lads are the lads that either dont talk to you or that make a f*ck of it when they do because they are so nervous.. and the crazy thing is that girls go for the fellas that fill them with the ****e that they want to hear but most importantly "with confidence"...

I was lucky.. I met a fantastic and stunning girl and got to be friends with her before... well before marrying her!

+1 Good post man.

I think Irish men have a tough time in general. Aside what has been said here about our apparent lack of courtesy for the opposite sex I actually think that we are fairly well renounced for our chivalry and unique sense of humour the world over. I've been to places as diverse as Mexico and Ukraine and I've always been greeted with a cheerful "Oh you're Irish" welcome. How many nationalities can claim that? Not too many I'd say. We really do seem to do very well with foreign ladies and I'm not talking exclusivity about looks here, I'm no Brad Pitt and I've experienced an incident where two stunning girls were practically fighting over me :eek: (shock from lack of confidence related to a Cathloic upbringing??? Quite possibly)

The one thing that does my head in is this mythical "craic" that everyone here is suppose to be having. I'm sorry but getting drunker and louder does not equal personal utopia, a certain percentage in every society around the world have their own fun that we would consider "craic" but you don't hear them banging on about it or even better put a label on it. Plus from a male perspective, having a women ripping the piss out of you then saying "Ah sure were only having the "craic" makes this "craic" even more confusing..........it's like a giant drunken shied that people can hide behind.

Okay I am drunk and quite possibly incoherent right now (thank god for spell checker!) so I will leave it at that for now, but hopefully a few of you got the jist of what I am trying to say?

Btw this thread has an awful After Hours feel thanks to the nonsense about the glassing (which was obviously a total fabrication).

Table Top Joe

oicherider wrote: »

Too many points here to talk about but in a nut shell this is what i reckon..

1) Women have absolutely no idea what it is like like to have to go up and talk to a woman that you fancy.. The Irish are not a race brimming with confidence to start with and after you have met a few "bitches" with their smart put downs im sure that if you have any insecurities you will think about 10 times before doing it again

2) As regards a girl sleeping with you on the first night.. Its not necessarily that you consider them as a whore.. Firstly.. What is there left to chase? Where is the intrigue? Secondly you may have the question in your head regarding how many people she has slept with.. If she slept with you on the first night then chances are that it wasnt really anything special for her.. If you are going out with a girl for a while before you do.. then chances are that it is..

3) I really dont think that fellas think that a girl is frigid if she doesnt sleep with them on the first night.. If a fella is interested in your personality, humour or if there is a connection.. He wont be thinking of sex the first night.. He will want to have the craic and spend time with you.. If they dont call you because you didnt sleep with them - they werent interested in you as a person in the first place

The soundest lads are the lads that either dont talk to you or that make a f*ck of it when they do because they are so nervous.. and the crazy thing is that girls go for the fellas that fill them with the ****e that they want to hear but most importantly "with confidence"...

I was lucky.. I met a fantastic and stunning girl and got to be friends with her before... well before marrying her!

Couldnt agree more....except i think women do know how hard it is to approach the opposite sex and thats why they dont do it!(vast majority anyway)

bronte

I think a lot of the problem is that Irish boys tend to stick women on a bloody pedestal. Maybe it's the way they are brought up.
I've noticed it in quite a few of my Irish male friends and in my brother too.
I'm forever telling them to "Just go and talk to her, she's only a human like yourself" But no...paralysed with fear/need a few drinks.

I think there's definitely a lack of confidence there too, which I don't understand because Irish guys have SO much going for them.

Generally speaking of course/doesn't apply to all

Blobby George

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'd think they were ridiculously possessive, slightly unhinged & I don't think I'd ever want to see them again.

You would be better advised not to pass comments on my mental capacity when in all truth you haven't a clue. This particular gent had a coloured history for this sort of behaviour. My actions could be viewed as ott but it was only a matter of time before somebody took the necessary action.

Ickle Magoo

Blobby George wrote: »

You would be better advised not to pass comments on my mental capacity when in all truth you haven't a clue....

I have what you yourself stated and from that info, my comment stands...could you gf not walk away? Could she not have told him to get lost? Could neither of you leave the establishment? The only sane and appropriate response is to attack him with a wine bottle? Sure, balanced behaviour all right... :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Raekwon wrote: »

Btw this thread has an awful After Hours feel thanks to the nonsense about the glassing (which was obviously a total fabrication).

Agreed. Another post like that Blobby George and bannings will be handed out.

zonad

The difference between leering and "appreciating" is how good the fella doing it looks.

krudler

zonad wrote: »

The difference between leering and "appreciating" is how good the fella doing it looks.

Good point, most women wouldnt mind some hot guy staring at them, if he's a bit of an uggo then eww, hes clearly a letch.

It still amazes me the amount of girls I know who fall for guys with "confidence" which a lot of the time equates to them being a master of spinning bullsh1t to make her think she isnt the 15th girl that night he's probably said the same thing to. I have a sort of friend who literally chats up a dozen girls a night,sometimes in front of ones he's spent a half hour chatting to already, which only makes them only more interested and then he has his pick t the end of the night, its absurb but works.

kiffer

... On the being quick to call a girl a slut point.
Before last night/this morning, I would have said ah sure it's not that bad, and anyway it's only a word...
BUT lastnight a good friend of mine, started refering to a lovely young lady as a slut...
She'd been flirting with a number of guys and even I thought I was in with a chance*, anyway, hurrah for randy bridesmaids... but my chances were scuppered by another friend... Long story short the girl settles on another fellow. I'm a little annoyed at the friend who blocked me (and then basically walked away) and am thinking fair dues to the fella that she picked in the end, can't begrudge him, lovely girl, nice lad, have fun...

I'm chatting to the first friend about this and he goes yeah... don't mind her, you're better off... F+uck'en slut... Going off with some fella she just met. Got a text this morning saying a something simiar...

I'm totaly appalled... I could hear real bile behind the word... not being said lightly at all...
He never would have said that years ago...


*(I'm normally oblivious to people being interested in me, and sometimes dismiss it when I do think I've noticed interest, overcompensating for "she's talking to me so she must fancy me!!!1" tendency that the OP has mentioned.)
also only got in at 8 this morning please excuse rambling, can't seem to get to solid sleep.


edit: somehow forgot to make a point I wanted to put in... I think this was a defence mechanism for this guy... He's been burned by a combination of mean girls and a tendency to get too serious to quick... So no he needs to make excuses "she's a just some slut" so that he can dismiss her actions and not end up basically pinning about the fact she didn't pick him. Still very distressing for me to hear him say.

Silverfish

Off-topic posts deleted. Dorothymantooth, please keep on topic.

Please be clear on this, this thread is not for bashing either gender, it is for discussing why SOME men act the way outlined in the OP.

Thank you.

Drops of Jupiter

kiffer wrote: »

... I'm chatting to the first friend about this and he goes yeah... don't mind her, you're better off... F+uck'en slut... Going off with some fella she just met. Got a text this morning saying a something simiar...

I'm totaly appalled... I could hear real bile behind the word... not being said lightly at all...
He never would have said that years ago...

I wonder if she had hooked up with him would he still be calling her a slut - perhaps? I agree with you that sometimes the contempt or bile as you call it behind the word slut can be disgusting. However, sadly it's not just men who bandy this word around some women can be very quick to use this word too!

I guess there is no real male equivalent to "f***ken slut". "Player" or "ladies man" doesn't quite have the same ring to it!

You are right to be appalled by this kiffer - really not nice at all.

I remember a few years ago a guy who a group of us got chatting to while playing pool offered to by me a drink. I said no thanks but he insisted saying it was only a drink etc and he was getting a round in. He made quite a bit deal out it so I agreed. He seemed really nice and polite and I told him I would buy him one back.

So anyways he bought the drink and about 5 mins later my boyfriend arrived. This guy then rushes over and snaps the drink out of my hand and called me a slut. My boyfriend went absolutely ballistic needless to say!

I know some girls who get guys to by them drinks all night and think that is really awful - maybe he had gotten burnt on that a few times but still!!

K-9

Drops of Jupiter wrote: »

Hi there,

Do others think some that Irish men and women have still quite repressed attitudes to sexuality and sex in general and suffer from quite unevolved thinking in this regard? Maybe it’s hang-over from our Catholic guilt? Other things that make me think this might be true from a female perspective

1) During the past sunny spell – the number of grown men I have witnessed falling off their bikes/jamming on the brakes beacuse there is a girl wearing a short skirt
2) Running home to post a thread about seeing some cleavage in the local shop (this applies to those over 16)
3) Drooling/leering at women’s bodies as opposed to admiring or appreciating
4) Men thinking you want to marry them/have their babies because you make small talk while waiting to get drinks at the bar. I don’t fancy you I am being friendly!
5) The Virgin/Whore Complex (very Catholic). If you sleep with them you are a whore if you don’t you are a frigid bitch/lesbian/tease.
6) Only being comfortable chatting up a girl after 10 pints
7) Bragging about all the chicks they fancy/want to shag but then practically peeing their pants when one of these girls speaks to them
8) Thinking that because you watch loads of porn this means you are sexually liberated
9) Presuming because a girl slept with them on the first date automatically means she is a whore and does that with every guy. Some guys I know really liked girls they slept with on the first night but wouldn’t see them again because they had to be sluts. How do they know this to be true? It’s taken as gospel and given no further thought.

A lot of this smacks of lazy thinking to me. Obviously if you are a teenager this doesn’t apply to you. I am talking about men in their late 20’s early 30s who act like this. I would like to hear others views on this.

Please note this is not male bashing thread. I hate all those generalisations that all men are this and all women are this. It kills any meaningful debate. I am a female so I am speaking from a female perspective. My above examples are based on some Irish men and thankfully there are exceptions to this rule.

There is something about men and women here – they don’t fully understand feel comfortable with each other. I have noticed that in other places in Europe there seems to be a more relaxed relationships between the sexes in general. Single sex schools/Catholic history have a lot to answer for I think. Anyone else have views on this?

I don't know. To me if it was a Catholic guilt thing points 1,2 and 3 don't tie in. 5,6 and 9 maybe do but really, we are long enough past that stage of Irish history to be over that.

The Madonna/Whore thing doesn't seem to apply to other, more secular and indeed, non Catholic countries.

Thinking about it, I don't think the nationality or indeed main religion, comes into this. Countries we consider liberal like France, Holland and the US have their conservative sections too. Even Ireland, in the 70's and 80's, had a more liberal section of society, as well as the RC conservative side.

My view is yes, some men do all the above. 1,2,3 and 7 are very immature though I sympathise with 3. Maybe they just don't know they are leering and think they are being subtle?

4 I can see why, because it is so rare for that to happen. Manys the Irish woman who will not even go into a bar on their own! Personally, I wouldn't judge anything on a woman making small talk like that. I might, if the conversation went well after that.

5. Definitely isn't a Catholic thing and an important important point. Despite the Church losing its grip on Irish society, this view is still very common. I remember the Tribune publishing a survey on this and the results had me flabbergasted.

6 is probably just shyness.

8, good point and maybe a reverse reaction to the RC guilt complex. I think this can apply to women too. Watching and copying the sounds and movements of a Porn film doesn't mean sexual liberation! Not by a long shot!

9 is rather silly but yes, common. To me, it signifies a man who sees women as not equal to them. Could be completely wrong, but that is my gut feeling.

Overall, I wouldn't dismiss the RC guilt thing. It probably plays some part but we are kind of past that stage, or well, should be. A lot of things that were blamed on the RC, still exist and we don't have them to blame any more. Its part of growing up as a country and I think, we are at the initial stage of that. Many women make judgements as well, so it isn't just a male thing.

Whether we will ever get past that initial stage, I have my doubts. Life would be boring if we all had the same views.

liah

oicherider wrote: »

) As regards a girl sleeping with you on the first night.. Its not necessarily that you consider them as a whore.. Firstly.. What is there left to chase? Where is the intrigue? Secondly you may have the question in your head regarding how many people she has slept with.. If she slept with you on the first night then chances are that it wasnt really anything special for her.. If you are going out with a girl for a while before you do.. then chances are that it is..

...You slept with her on the first date, too. Presumably, you'd consider yourself a nice, normal person worth putting effort into. Why would this not apply to her, too?

This NEVER made any sense for me. Such an unbelievable double-standard. Particularly the "how many people she has slept with" thing. Like.. are you serious? How many people have you slept with if you're willing to do that, same as her?

Christ. Backwards.

Vinta81

liah wrote: »

...You slept with her on the first date, too. Presumably, you'd consider yourself a nice, normal person worth putting effort into. Why would this not apply to her, too?

This NEVER made any sense for me. Such an unbelievable double-standard. Particularly the "how many people she has slept with" thing. Like.. are you serious? How many people have you slept with if you're willing to do that, same as her?

Christ. Backwards.

Fcuking amen!

pickarooney

bronte wrote: »

Yeah, that Madonna/whore thing is very Irish.
I haven't seen it so prominent anywhere else.

Strange, as it's a Freudian concept, and according to him the Irish were impervious to psychoanalysis, so logically it should apply to everyone except Irish men

Feeona

I think having segregated schools does nothing for our confidence with the opposite sex. I went to an all girls school. When I started college, I still hadn't learned how to approach or talk to men. So instead of making a fool of myself with the opposite sex in my teenage years, I made a fool of myself with them in college :rolleyes:, and for a few years after.
I think those years between primary school and college are very important for learning about how to conduct yourself with the opposite sex. It's quite difficult to learn that when you're segregated, and no amount of social and personal health education lessons with descriptions of hypothetical social settings will teach you what you really need to know.