I need to do chin ups

boredatwork82

I need to be able to do chin ups.
We are tested (rugby team fitness test) on those and at the minute I can't do any.

I am a relatively fit rugby player. I am 21stone and 6'3", I have no problem lasting 80 mins at a decent enough level, and I am hoping to get some AIL div 1 gametime next season
I have read here and other places that Lat pull down is no good for improving/been able to do chins.

I have recently started a 5x5 program to add a bit of strength and that looks for chin ups as well.

I have no one to assist me. I have tried jumping up and lowering my self down, and also hanging there trying to do a chin up.

Is there any better way to be able to do chin ups?

Thanks in advance.

d'Oracle

There was a thread on this a few days ago.
But it descended into nonsense fairly quickly.

If you have access to Resistance Bands you can use them to assist you as you build up the strength.

If you have access to an asssisted pullup machine that could help.

You could also try slow negative pullups. Catch the bar, jump up to the top of the chinup, then slowly let yourself down, making sure that you are pulling your elbows down and your chest up to slow the decent.

Once you get one or two, try doing a few sets of one or two and build from there.
I had some success with the armstrong pullup programme: http://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf (wfs)

Danger781

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055925762

^There's the thread, you may find something useful in it.. But like Oracle said it just turned into a load of crap :rolleyes:

itsallaboutheL

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I need to be able to do chin ups.
We are tested (rugby team fitness test) on those and at the minute I can't do any.

I am a relatively fit rugby player. I am 21stone and 6'3", I have no problem lasting 80 mins at a decent enough level, and I am hoping to get some AIL div 1 gametime next season
I have read here and other places that Lat pull down is no good for improving/been able to do chins.

I have recently started a 5x5 program to add a bit of strength and that looks for chin ups as well.

I have no one to assist me. I have tried jumping up and lowering my self down, and also hanging there trying to do a chin up.

Is there any better way to be able to do chin ups?

Thanks in advance.

I'm assuming you're a prop?

If you test well in everything else i wouldn't worry too much about it.

boredatwork82

Yes I am a prop!
I'd still like to go to the next test and show how much effort I put in, and beat the other props.
I searched but didn't see that thread, I'll have a look at it now.
I might start going in to the gym for 5-10 mins when some of the lads are there to work on this.
I did some lat pull downs then at notch 20 on the machine instead, but that wouldn't be real strength due to the help of the machine.

Thanks for all your replies guys.

d'Oracle

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Yes I am a prop!
I'd still like to go to the next test and show how much effort I put in, and beat the other props.
I searched but didn't see that thread, I'll have a look at it now.
I might start going in to the gym for 5-10 mins when some of the lads are there to work on this.
I did some lat pull downs then at notch 20 on the machine instead, but that wouldn't be real strength due to the help of the machine.

Thanks for all your replies guys.

During my "quest" to get a chin, I found the LPD useless.
I had a coach recommend it to me.
A few people on here have said it probably won't work.

It could be that you are strong enough to do it, but sort of can't coordinate the movement yet, if that makes sense.

boredatwork82

Yeah I think that maybe it. I have just read that thread. Man it descended fairly rapidly!

I think I am on the right track, I do inverted rows, push ups, benching and lat pulldown. I think its just discipline and keep on having a go at doing it. If I can even get one I'll be happy, and can build on it from there. Its just frustrating not to be able to one chin-up.
Anyways if I find the solution I will add my 2p to the other thread for the craic!

itsallaboutheL

What are the rest of your lifts like?

d'Oracle

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Its just frustrating not to be able to one chin-up.

I hear ya.

columok

Bands are a great way to go as they let you start banging out pullups in some shape or form. Imagine trying to pushpress 130+kg on your first day lifting weights!!!

O.P.H

Well ya won't improve anythin fast but ya could give this a go -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogYazS6tkdI

rubadub

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I have tried jumping up and lowering my self down, and also hanging there trying to do a chin up.

Is there any better way to be able to do chin ups?

Thats usually the most recommended way of doing them, it trains the full ROM so is very good. Otherwise just hanging or holding in the top position would be like going into the gym from the start and just attempting to deadlift a 100kg bar, then coming back each week and doing it over and over. Sure you might get a bit stronger but it is far more beneficial to train the actual ROM. Go easy with negatives though, they can leave you with DOMS for days.

If you test well in everything else i wouldn't worry too much about it.

+1, at 21stone if you are carrying a lot of fat I would be very impressed with a single one.

discus

rubadub wrote: »

Thats usually the most recommended way of doing them, it trains the full ROM so is very good. Otherwise just hanging or holding in the top position would be like going into the gym from the start and just attempting to deadlift a 100kg bar, then coming back each week and doing it over and over. Sure you might get a bit stronger but it is far more beneficial to train the actual ROM. Go easy with negatives though, they can leave you with DOMS for days.

Another classic rubadub analogy!

PussyLiquor

O.P.H wrote: »

Well ya won't improve anythin fast but ya could give this a go -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogYazS6tkdI

Fart at 1.19

Danger781

PussyLiquor wrote: »

Fart at 1.19

Lmao! That sounded like a wet one XD

gonedrinking

Why would you listen to what that guy says, he's slightly toned but thin, he has no muscles to speak off.

discus

gonedrinking wrote: »

Why would you listen to what that guy says, he's slightly toned but thin, he has no muscles to speak off.

FACE + PALM = 1

Bulktohulk

gonedrinking wrote: »

Why would you listen to what that guy says, he's slightly toned but thin, he has no muscles to speak off.

........Lost for words.

boredatwork82

The rest of my lifts are pretty poor actually when I look at them written down. I am only back gymming since last summer for the last 3 weeks I think It just needs a tough summer lifting heavy.

This morning I did
squat 5x5 @ 140kg
bench 5x5 @75kg
deadlift 3x5 at 100kg

Did a bunch of negative reps and inverted rows and push ups.

I got my goal for fitness retest in 6 weeks time. I think I am inline to acheive my bench and 150's goal, but my chin up has been set at 1.
0-1 chinups in 6 weeks, it should be acheivable.

I think I'm just going to have to burst my b0llocks.

BrianD3

If you are failing at the top or middle, you could get a dipping belt (25 quid from vjhomefitness) and do weighted partials from the bottom. If you do a few session of that and then go back to doing bodyweight chins, they should be easier and you might be able to do one with full ROM.

If you can even do a few chins at 21 stone that would be very impressive. I'd say there are heavyweight powerlifters, strongmen and weightlifters who are as strong as **** but would have difficulty doing a few chinups.

thirdmantackle

BrianD3 wrote: »

If you are failing at the top or middle, you could get a dipping belt (25 quid from vjhomefitness) and do weighted partials from the bottom. If you do a few session of that and then go back to doing bodyweight chins, they should be easier and you might be able to do one with full ROM.

If you can even do a few chins at 21 stone that would be very impressive. I'd say there are heavyweight powerlifters, strongmen and weightlifters who are as strong as **** but would have difficulty doing a few chinups.

ah excellent. doesn't make me feel so bad so with my 7 pull ups!

boredatwork82

That was a sarcastic thanks by the way thirdmantackle :pac:

DamienH

I've been chasing the chinup for a while now. I got hold of some bands from iron woody and they helped me a good bit. I just put my knee into one of the loops and work away with that. When I started (a few months ago) 3 on the band were a struggle, I can knock out 10 now, the tenth being a bit of a struggle. I've recently started doing negatives and they're going pretty well, they do make you sore though. They feel tough aswell, lots of shaking. I can hold the negative motion for about 10 seconds aswell before I hit full hang, from my understanding it's the longer the better.

If I were you I'd keep at the inverted rows and negatives provided that you can hold them for sufficient time. Negatives shouldn't be used every day either, I'd say it's easy to injure yourself. Good luck!

gonedrinking

discus wrote: »

FACE + PALM = 1

What are you face palming about? Was anything I said incorrect- no. I just find it a bit of a joke all these skinny guys on youtube lecturing others about strength training and bodybuilding.

thirdmantackle

boredatwork82 wrote: »

That was a sarcastic thanks by the way thirdmantackle :pac:

well, i'm not afraid to admit that your squat and deadlift kick my ass
especially as a knee condition severly limits my leg training in the last 3 months

thirdmantackle

DamienH wrote: »

I've been chasing the chinup for a while now. I got hold of some bands from iron woody and they helped me a good bit. I just put my knee into one of the loops and work away with that. When I started (a few months ago) 3 on the band were a struggle, I can knock out 10 now, the tenth being a bit of a struggle. I've recently started doing negatives and they're going pretty well, they do make you sore though. They feel tough aswell, lots of shaking. I can hold the negative motion for about 10 seconds aswell before I hit full hang, from my understanding it's the longer the better.

If I were you I'd keep at the inverted rows and negatives provided that you can hold them for sufficient time. Negatives shouldn't be used every day either, I'd say it's easy to injure yourself. Good luck!

I detest negatives. But in a good way
I always know a few people in the gym are looking funny at me when i do 2/3 of them at end of a set.

rubadub

gonedrinking wrote: »

Why would you listen to what that guy says, he's slightly toned but thin, he has no muscles to speak off.

And here was me thinking he was giving good advice, thanks for making me realise he must have been talking complete and utter shite. And now I can also dismiss all those posts I read by the US gymnastics coach, sure he is only about 10 stone.

That guys website is here http://www.turbulencetraining.com/



I really think you should go see a psychiatrist as you probably have some sort of body dysmorphic disorder.

gonedrinking

rubadub wrote: »

And here was me thinking he was giving good advice, thanks for making me realise he must have been talking complete and utter shite. And now I can also dismiss all those posts I read by the US gymnastics coach, sure he is only about 10 stone.

That guys website is here http://www.turbulencetraining.com/



I really think you should go see a psychiatrist as you probably have some sort of body dysmorphic disorder.

Are you seriously trying to say you think the guy in that pic is only 10 stone??? the only way that guy would be 10 stone was if he is 5 foot 6 or something like that.

d'Oracle

gonedrinking wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to say you think the guy in that pic is only 10 stone??? the only way that guy would be 10 stone was if he is 5 foot 6 or something like that.

No.

He is seriously not trying to say that.

rubadub

gonedrinking wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to say you think the guy in that pic is only 10 stone???

No the guy in the picture is the one you said "has no muscles to speak off."

The 10stone guy I was also referring to is a gymnastics coach for the last 30 years, turning out lots of champions, he is on the right here.



I am not going to ignore/dismiss his advice since he does not appear strong (and he is strong). Actually I might think twice about listening to advice from a huge bodybuilder as it could be intended for somebody at his elite level, and presuming you are taking steroids.

AntiVirus

gonedrinking wrote: »

What are you face palming about? Was anything I said incorrect- no. I just find it a bit of a joke all these skinny guys on youtube lecturing others about strength training and bodybuilding.

Does it matter who gives the advice as long as its good advice, I'm sure you've picked up some tips from here but you have no idea who the poster is, they could be fat,skinny,young,old,girl,boy.

boredatwork82

All advice is welcome, I will try whatever I think may work for me. So keep it coming. When I acheive 1 chin up, it will have all been worth it.

AntiVirus

Here's a nice video clip that shows you how to practice to do chin ups on a smith machine.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-practice-chin-ups-smith-machine-195109/

and a couple other workouts on the smith machine that will help you get to your 1st chin up.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-smith-machine-practice-inverted-pull-ups-195114/

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-wide-inverted-pull-ups-hold-smith-machine-195112/

itsallaboutheL

boredatwork82 wrote: »

This morning I did
squat 5x5 @ 140kg
bench 5x5 @75kg
deadlift 3x5 at 100kg

In all honesty as a 125kg prop i'd stop worrying about chin ups and instead concentrate on getting much stronger all over.

boredatwork82

Yeah, I know I need to really increase my lifts, but that is progressing and I am seeing the difference (from clothes fitting better, and weights increasing), But I would like to do a chin up! I will meet my goals on bench and 150's if I keep going the way I am, so I'd like to meet all three of my goals.

I am increasing my weights every session, and will hope that I can add a lot more weight (especially to my squat) by the end of the summer. I think the 5x5 program is the best way to do this.

Once again, Thanks a million to everyone for all your replies.

COH

How are you squatting so much more than your deadlift?

boredatwork82

Should I be deadlifting more? How much relative to my squat(is there a guide percentage)?
Grip generally goes on me these days. Broke my thumb and ruptured ligaments in my right hand in March, so thats fairly weak, but still not an adequate excuse.

d'Oracle

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Should I be deadlifting more? How much relative to my squat(is there a guide percentage)?
Grip generally goes on me these days. Broke my thumb and ruptured ligaments in my right hand in March, so thats fairly weak, but still not an adequate excuse.

Generally speaking, people will be able to deadlift more than they squat.

You should really go heavier, and probably just do one set after warming up rather than 3.
Provided your hand is O.K. according to a physio.

Scuba Ste

It should be more than your squat anyway. How deep do you squat?

COH

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Should I be deadlifting more? How much relative to my squat(is there a guide percentage)?
Grip generally goes on me these days. Broke my thumb and ruptured ligaments in my right hand in March, so thats fairly weak, but still not an adequate excuse.

'Generally' people are stronger on deads than squats. If its the other way around you may not be going deep enough when squatting. Then again some people are just built for squats, your hand injury could be holding you back, cant tell without vids.. but generally accepted rule of thumb for good lifts are

Bench - 100% bodyweight
Squat - 150% BW
Deadlift - 200% BW

boredatwork82

OK, Thats great - I will lower my squat weight and work on getting lower so.
I have long legs(not sure if this is a legitimate issue) so never really got my arse to the ground in squats, I go thighs parrallel to the ground in them. I was always told that I should never go past parrallel, but at the time i was naive and beleived everything a gym instructor who prob didn't have a clue.

boredatwork82

Sorry lads I didn't see the other replies. I will lower my Squat and work on getting lower, and I will increase my deadlift and only do 1 heavy set.
I have the ok from the physio and surgeon.

rubadub

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Grip generally goes on me these days. Broke my thumb and ruptured ligaments in my right hand in March, so thats fairly weak, but still not an adequate excuse.

I think it is a valid excuse. Grip plays a big factor in chinups, for me anyways. I do not compete or anything and do not even train "the big 3" at all these days. I do some manual labour in work so grip strength helps a lot, and I train it a lot. I got these thick bar devices to go on my dumbbell & chinup bar

After training a few weeks with them my grip improved even more, it was the last thing to go on chinups, and I finally got a BW+50% chinup, i.e. I am 85kg and had 42.5kg on a belt for a single rep.

There was discussion on grip strength here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60212928
I would talk to your physio about any new exercise though.

d'Oracle

I find I get more chins if I leave my thumbs out of it.
Focus on the hooks formed by my other fingers.

Cravez

Rubadub where did you get them fatgripz?

COH

Michael Cravez wrote: »

Rubadub where did you get them fatgripz?

38dollars from liftinglarge.com

rubadub

Michael Cravez wrote: »

Rubadub where did you get them fatgripz?

I got mine on the fatgripz site itself, worked out around €35 including delivery. $45.05 and they are shipped from the UK
http://www.fatgripz.com/

COH wrote: »

38dollars from liftinglarge.com

Posted from the US so there is the chance of customs getting you. But just checked and cheapest shipping is $31.05!:eek: so more chance of being stung since VAT is charged on shipping too.

d'Oracle wrote: »

I find I get more chins if I leave my thumbs out of it.
Focus on the hooks formed by my other fingers.

When using the fat gripz I can do far more when leaving thumbs out, on a standard bar I do not notice much difference at all.

Thumbless is more like what I call "ledge pullups", doing them on an overhanging ledge where you cannot use thumbs. The fat grips greatly improve the thumb strength, which is probably lacking training in a lot of people, I always use thumbs with the fatgrips. If you are not using thumbs you can hook the hand further over the top, your hand more like a swan neck.

You can see this guy doing them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OVMqyDu46k

If you use the thumb your forearm is pretty much in line the the centre of the bar which make it much harder. That guy may as well not bother with them IMO, they are meant to work you harder!

When I first got my fat gripz I reckon I could have done twice the thumbless reps as regular reps with them. I much prefer them with overhead dumbbell presses too, I think my reps actually increase with fat bars. Pushing movements should be around the same, while pulling exercises are much harder.

I made a post in this thread about how you might make some, 2nd post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65859395

boredatwork82

Update: Was in the gym this evening. I lowered my squat to 100kg to get technique and get way lower. could feel the difference, alot tougher but feels good. I can probably up this fairly quickly but need to make sure i stay low. I also up my deadlift to 110kg. would be able to do more except for the grip. Been a sweaty bastard doesn't help.

I also did heavy chins style lat pull downs if that makes sense. and tried a chin up. I was able to start the motion and get probably a 1/3 of the way up. I can feel I will get this chin up! Thanks for all your help again folks.

COH

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I also up my deadlift to 110kg. would be able to do more except for the grip. Been a sweaty bastard doesn't help.

Try using chalk

shootermacg

You're bench is also low for a big guy like you. I'd say you're arms maybe the weak link or you're carrying too much weight, although I'm impressed with your general fitness 80 mins of rugby is no joke!

Hanley

shootermacg wrote: »

You're bench is also low for a big guy like you. I'd say you're arms maybe the weak link or you're carrying too much weight, although I'm impressed with your general fitness 80 mins of rugby is no joke!

Are you diagnosing his arms as being the weak link in pull/chin ups because his bench is only slightly over bodyweight?