Atlas Shrugged

Wibbs · 10-09-2014 04:06PM

That doesn't answer the question though PB. Who makes the legislation? Who makes the law? The legal profession? In which case you've got state by proxy. Precedence? Again those with the deepest pockets will over time tend to win more cases than lose and the laws would follow that. The market itself would skew toward the market and the legislation would follow.

PopePalpatine · 10-09-2014 04:12PM

Also, what's to say the judiciary can't be bribed either by this hypothetical oil tycoon?

Permabear · 10-09-2014 04:27PM

This post has been deleted.

Permabear · 10-09-2014 04:34PM

This post has been deleted.

marienbad · 10-09-2014 04:36PM

So to sum up - lets have a state where we use the law to protect the nerds from the jocks .

jank · 11-09-2014 09:12AM

As it happen one of the worlds best known podcast freakanomics released an episode the past few days talking about the conflicts between business and the state.

In particular it focused on what is called the 'peer to peer' new economy where entrepreneurs have leveraged mobile smart devices and the internet to create businesses like Uber, AirBnb, Eatwith and Lyft. What you hear when you listen to the podcast is that more often than not the state (in this case regulators) create laws which blocks innovation, creativity and new ideas in an effort to shore up their own support by existing players in business and unions.

Outwardly it is to 'protect the public interest' but it is clear that its to protect a privileged few at the expense of the average citizen and consumer. Instead of embracing new ways of thinking, better ways to live our lives we have to suffer higher expense and higher costs due to red tape, regulation and vested interests. I am sure there are those that will chuckle when they hear the cognitive somersaults Democratic New York State Senator Liz Krueger performs when asked quite simple questions.

In some sense it is a snapshot of the Ryandian view of the world where the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the creators and the producers are stymied and curtailed by those who use the power state for their own corrupt aims.

The podcast is about 40 minutes long and well worth a listen for all.
http://freakonomics.com/2014/09/04/regulate-this-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/

magicbastarder · 11-09-2014 09:30AM

jaron lanier is quite interesting on the disruptive effects of new technology, but i'd recommend 'you are not a gadget' over the overlong 'who owns the future'; the former has a lot of the same ideas, but expressed in a much more digestible form.

20Cent · 11-09-2014 06:07PM

Interesting podcast only halfway through it but it does raise an interesting issue. A lot of what we do effects other people so one persons freedom to do whatever they want will interfere with another persons. Like the airbnb example if an apartment in my block has people coming and going all the time, strangers having keys to the building, noise etc the right of the person with the apartment to let it out and my right to security and quiet clash. How can both needs be appeased?

Turtwig · 11-09-2014 07:02PM

It's a pretty much a no brainer that state interference can be a negative thing. You don't need to read vogon literature to know that. There's examples all over the world of a state making bad choices and interfering in industry.
In many ways libertarians are useful for pointing out failings of state interference. However the key thing libertarians seem to not grasp is pointing out a failing of a system doesn't mean the system itself is to be replaced. To use the analogy of the modern medicine, just because patients die from cock-ups doesn't mean the entire idea of modern medicine is defunct. All it means is that the system needs to be analysed, refined and if there truly is no redemption: trashed. However, the latter doesn't always follow by default.

Nobody here disputes the fact that state interference isn't always inherently a good thing. What they dispute is the idea of a free market. The market should be as free as it can be within reason but there's always going to be need for oversight, regulation and state controls.

Permabear · 12-09-2014 12:01PM

This post has been deleted.

robindch · 12-09-2014 12:03PM

Since society works pretty well with government intervention, regulation and so on, I'm wondering whether you might feel that this indicates that Rand's "reasoning" was, in fact, rather faulty?

Permabear · 12-09-2014 12:17PM

This post has been deleted.

12-09-2014 12:20PM

Stop selling new iphones lads the old nokias work just fine!

oscarBravo · 12-09-2014 12:34PM

I think I detect a non sequitur.

robindch · 12-09-2014 12:36PM

I think I detect a false premise.[/QUOTE]Tiny example - I was in a TGV last week - hurtling safely and in considerable comfort through the French and latterly, German, countryside at over 200mph. State, semi-state and private organizations seem to work pretty well together to me so I trust you'll understand why I reject your false allegation of a false premise.

In the USA, on the other hand - a freedum-luvin' paradise where Rand is, inexplicably, held in much higher regard than in "socialist"/whatever France - I gather that plans for a nationwide high speed rail network have been shelved.

Hmmm...

Permabear · 12-09-2014 12:54PM

This post has been deleted.

marienbad · 12-09-2014 01:01PM

stop inbuild obsolescence in the iphones and the old ones will work just fine

marienbad · 12-09-2014 01:03PM

cherry-pick much ?

robindch · 12-09-2014 01:33PM

As you haven't responded to my rebuttal, I'll assume you accept it. And that you now therefore believe that Rand was wrong to convince herself that what you refer to as an "interventionist state" was a bad thing.

Permabear · 12-09-2014 01:37PM

This post has been deleted.

robindch · 12-09-2014 01:43PM

Do you holiday in places where the economy is enjoying double-digit growth? Do you seek out only the cuisine and wine of countries which have a positive balance of payments? Do you consciously avoid countries which are yielding more than 25 basis points above the the 30 year Bund rate?

Don't be silly - you're bringing cherry-picking into disrepute :rolleyes:

There's far more to life than assets, though I'll concede that for Rand, and seemingly many of her followers too, the only things really worth worrying about do appear to be property and cash and go hang the rest.

Turtwig · 12-09-2014 01:45PM

In a nutshell: The french government in turmoil has nothing to do with TGV system. It's pretty much everything to do with internal french politics, the chaotic balance between the moderates and conservatives of a party. Mr Holland's infidelity, the subsequent book that's been published by a woman he had a an affair with that tries to paint him is as negative a light as possible. (It's extremely bitter and the timing of the publication is really just optimised to dent his career and image of presidency as much as possible.) It's a hilarious thing to say but in politics people get more pissed off over a politician flying first class than actually what they do propose to do for the state.

marienbad · 12-09-2014 01:49PM

Why pick the French economy ? and why just the economy as a measure of a country ?

As I say cherry picking.

Permabear · 12-09-2014 02:32PM

This post has been deleted.

marienbad · 12-09-2014 02:59PM

Again why pick France ? and why just the economy right now as a measure of a country ?

You never answer the question you are asked .

Cabaal · 12-09-2014 03:12PM

But then you can never have progress,
You'd still have the newest iPhone having to from back from 4G to 3G to a Edge data network, mobile operators would also have to keep all the different sorts of data networks operating.

Permabear · 12-09-2014 03:15PM

This post has been deleted.

marienbad · 12-09-2014 03:22PM

No he picked the TGV - you extrapolated to a whole country and right now. And use only the economy as a measure .

But for this discussion to have any meaning you should provide examples of what you consider well run entities in order to have some sort of comparison. I notice you never do that

Permabear · 12-09-2014 03:44PM

This post has been deleted.

Naz_st · 12-09-2014 04:16PM

Just how far France has come from "Laissez-Faire"!

Atlas Shrugged

Comments