'Inception' Mega Thread *SPOILERS FROM POST 292 ONWARDS*

BlitzKrieg

Renn wrote: »

Look, all I'm saying is that Nolan told us too much. That's one of my gripe's with it. Page/Exposition girl was an idea that didn't really sit well with me.

didnt sit well with me either.

That and the film's bizarre sense of scale in relation to risk vs reward annoyed me alot.

but i kept that all to my review (located obviously in the reviews section) unless someone brought it up here.

Edinduberdeen

I really enjoyed Inception, but the one thing I thought was a bit too …. convenient was the whole thing about limbo (if you take reality as reality, which is my favourite interpretation). At first, when Saito is shot in the first dream level we are told “Limbo is bad – it’s the very edge of the subconscious, if and when you do wake from it your mind will be goo. Under this level of sedation, if we die in the dream, we go to limbo. Do not die, do not go to limbo!” Later, in the 3rd dream level, when Fisher and Saito both ‘die’ and end up in limbo, Ariadne and Cobb just say “ah sure, let’s just go down to limbo and get them back. Luckily, limbo is only one dream level away, phew!” (did they ever explain that you could only have 3 embedded dreams before you get to the edge of the subconscious? Maybe I missed that…). Also, why did Ariadne and Cobb remember what was going on, but Saito couldn’t? Possibly because he died instead of choosing to go deeper, but it was another thing that didn’t sit right with me (also, didn't Fisher remember who they were from the previous level?).
Finally, getting out of limbo – Ariadne and Fisher kill themselves in limbo in time for the kick in the upper levels, but Cobb and Saito miss the kick… how did they get back (and not be vegetables)? Perhaps they make it to the 3rd level again and spend 10 dream years there before waking up?
(Also, as a psychologist, I didn’t like the idea of a shared subconscious – limbo seemed much more terrifying if you were trapped in the deepest levels of your own mind, but I could deal with that for the story…).

Mickeroo

It wasn't that Limbo was automatically the forth level, they just went there because thats where both Saito and Fisher were.

Edinduberdeen

Mickeroo wrote: »

It wasn't that Limbo was automatically the forth level, they just went there because thats where both Saito and Fisher were.

How did they manage that? Convenient for the storyline, but surely it would be a very complicated thing to try to arrive precisely at the edge of your subconscious.

Quazzie

Why do people keep saying that Saito entered Limbo first when its obvious he didn't? He was still alive on the snow level when Cobb and Ariadne were in Limbo dealing with his wife.

Also Cobbe washed up on the shore (entered limbo) when Saito was already that old.

Edinduberdeen

Quazzie wrote: »

Why do people keep saying that Saito entered Limbo first when its obvious he didn't? He was still alive on the snow level when Cobb and Ariadne were in Limbo dealing with his wife.

Also Cobbe washed up on the shore (entered limbo) when Saito was already that old.

I'll have to take another look - I thought Saito had died before that, but it makes no difference to the points I made anyway.

trustno1

Edinduberdeen wrote: »

I'll have to take another look - I thought Saito had died before that, but it makes no difference to the points I made anyway.

Saito did die while Cobb and Ariadne where in limbo with Mal trying to find Fisher, as Cobb say's something along the lines of 'Saito must be down here by now - I am going to stay to find him' (probably not word perfect, but something along those lines).

Now when Ariadne and Cobb arrived in limbo, they washed up on the beach, so my problem is, when Cobb says that he is going to say and find Saito, why does he wash up on the beach again?? and why is he battered?

I still think a directors cut is in the pipeline which will expand on the limbo story which was wrapped up too neatly as far as I am concerned.

][cEMAN**

I can't remember if it was clearly defined enough where i'm wrong here, but what if each dream was a self contained level, and limbo wasn't a lower level, but rather the empty space surrounding.

What if each level is created by a definate architect, as if it were the inside of a room, but outside of that, it's everyone who's connected together in the dream state that can wander about.

If unconcious thoughts were manifested as the population of each dream, then going outside of that would explain more why you could lose your mind. Because there's nothing there, not even your deepest unconcious thought.

Edinduberdeen

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;67038759'] [...] but outside of that, it's everyone who's connected together in the dream state that can wander about.

Ah, yeah this makes sense of the shared subconscious now... I wasn't thinking!

veXual

I think the discussion generated by this film is also something it should be credited with!

I've been having some serious conversation about it in work today and I'm really enjoying other people's take on it.

WesternNight

Btw, Ariadne was a very appropriate name for her character. I guess the guilt Cobb felt was Dionysus.

From Wiki:

Ariadne (Greek Αριάδνη), in Greek mythology (Latin Ariana), was daughter of King Minos of Crete[1] and his queen, Pasiphaë, daughter of Helios, the Sun-titan.[2] She aided Theseus in overcoming the Minotaur (actually her half-brother) but was equally the bride of the god Dionysus.

She was also the "mistress of labyrinths".

sprinkles

Edinduberdeen wrote: »

I'll have to take another look - I thought Saito had died before that, but it makes no difference to the points I made anyway.

I thought the same. He died before they got into that last room - he threw the grenade and then closed his eyes!? I'll check it out again tomorrow night but I was sure him and Fisher were dead in level 4 and that's why Cobb goes to get them.

don ramo

i must say i cant wait to see thsi film again,

also werent they originally suppose to be on level 3 for six months, i think someone earlier said level 2 was six months,

Quazzie

sprinkles wrote: »

I thought the same. He died before they got into that last room - he threw the grenade and then closed his eyes!? I'll check it out again tomorrow night but I was sure him and Fisher were dead in level 4 and that's why Cobb goes to get them.

No. Sure Saito only got the grenade because he was being left alone.

sprinkles

Quazzie wrote: »

No. Sure Saito only got the grenade because he was being left alone.

I know, didn't say he didn't. He got the grenade cause Eames was leaving him to plant charges. He threw the grenade, and killed everyone in the air vent and shortly after his eyes closed and his head went down - and I assume died. That was before Cobb and Ariadne arrived in the room. Could be wrong but I'll confirm it tomorrow.

Vokes

I believe it went the order of:

1. Ariadne / Cobb enter Limbo.

2. Saito chucks grenade into air vent to kill the soldiers, then himself dies.

3. Eames returns after planting explosives and sees that Saito is dead

/EDIT

But I too could be wrong, so will be seeing it again in IMAX DMR :pac:

Sad Professor

Just back from seeing this and I thought it was incredible. Didn't have any trouble following it, however, I could definitely sense some frustration in the theatre. I'm no Nolan fanboy and found a lot of his previous films lacking, but he did a fantastic job with this.

Kitsune9tails

don ramo wrote: »

also werent they originally suppose to be on level 3 for six months, i think someone earlier said level 2 was six months,

Level one was 7 days, so level two would have to be around 3 months making level three 10 years and limbo forever.

Vokes wrote:

I believe it went the order of:

1. Ariadne / Cobb enter Limbo.

2. Saito chucks grenade into air vent to kill the soldiers, then himself dies.

3. Eames returns after planting explosives and sees that Saito is dead

Nope it went

1. Saito chucks grenade into air vent to kill the soldiers, then himself dies.
2. Eames returns and sees that Saito is dead
3. Ariadne / Cobb enter Limbo to get Fisher and Saito.
4. Eames plants explosives

dabbler2004

I'm loving this thread, some fasinating ideas and takes on the film. Saw it last night and my head was spinning trying to figure it out.
What I've come up with is that it doesn't matter if the top falls over or not in the final scene because the only reason we know that it falls over in the real world is because Cobb has told us this, maybe he's in a dream and assuming it will. Plus did anyone else think that the shift from airport to his home(final scene) was too quick? I may be mistaken but Cobb looked momentarily confused as he walked down the hallway. As Cobb stated earlier in the film; dreams always have you in the middle of something/where without remembering how you got there.

Jesus that's rambling, it sounded much better in my head at 1 o'clock this morning

WesternNight

dabbler2004 wrote: »

Plus did anyone else think that the shift from airport to his home(final scene) was too quick? I may be mistaken but Cobb looked momentarily confused as he walked down the hallway. As Cobb stated earlier in the film; dreams always have you in the middle of something/where without remembering how you got there.

I hadn't noticed that. Will look out for that when I see it again this weekend

irishh_bob

just back from seeing it , left after one hour and 55 mins , only time ive ever walked out of a movie , complicated for the sake of it and not that interesting of a plot once you initially marvel at the cleverness of the concept , i was completley bored by around an hour in and ended up with a headache from trying to negotiate three ( or is it now four ) different ( and not that interesting anyway ) set ups , the matrix done this much better and with a lot less pretension over a decade ago

maybe im simply not smart enough but i dont really like a movie that tries so hard to show how clever it is

Earthhorse

dabbler2004 wrote: »

Plus did anyone else think that the shift from airport to his home(final scene) was too quick? I may be mistaken but Cobb looked momentarily confused as he walked down the hallway. As Cobb stated earlier in the film; dreams always have you in the middle of something/where without remembering how you got there.

If anything, Cobb going home is the one time we do see people getting somewhere in the dream. Throughout the film characters end up in places with no transition scene to explain how they got there e.g. Cobbs and Saito in Mombasa and Eames inflitrating Fischer's family. They just arrive. This is, of course, a pretty normal film convention.

Cobb going home is the only time we see how someone got somewhere, the only time we remember how he arrived.

sprinkles

But he did look confused when he got there. Something wasn't right with the scene and he noticed it but then saw his kids. I can't remember what he looked at - I thought it was the table place-mat - I was expecting to see the knife that Mal was holding in Limbo but then he moved on to his kids. Really can't wait to see this again.

sprinkles

Kitsune9tails wrote: »

Nope it went

1. Saito chucks grenade into air vent to kill the soldiers, then himself dies.
2. Eames returns and sees that Saito is dead
3. Ariadne / Cobb enter Limbo to get Fisher and Saito.
4. Eames plants explosives

That's how I remember it alright.

krudler

Heres a question, in Fischer's dream, why does he never once question that the head of his biggest rival company is in his dream helping him? Saito's prescence isnt alluded to once by him.

Turtyturd

krudler wrote: »

Heres a question, in Fischer's dream, why does he never once question that the head of his biggest rival company is in his dream helping him? Saito's prescence isnt alluded to once by him.

Wouldn't Saito be more of a rival to his father? It is never said how much of an interest/connection to his fathers business that Fischer has.

WesternNight

Maybe he didn't know what he looked like. Heads of companies usually keep a reasonably low profile in the public...but presumably his name would have been mentioned at some stage and he'd surely have noticed...

Edinduberdeen

krudler wrote: »

Heres a question, in Fischer's dream, why does he never once question that the head of his biggest rival company is in his dream helping him? Saito's prescence isnt alluded to once by him.

I once dreamt that Spiderman and I were delivering coal. Not once in the dream did I question why Spiderman was helping me.

Edinduberdeen

irishh_bob wrote: »

, complicated for the sake of it

Really?? I thought everything was explained thoroughly - it wasn't that complicated.

sprinkles

Edinduberdeen wrote: »

I once dreamt that Spiderman and I were delivering coal. Not once in the dream did I question why Spiderman was helping me.

Haha, very good point