FFIX out on the EU PSN today

super_furry

The best Final Fantasy bar none (IMO) available for a tenner. Can't wait to stick it on my PSP, and for once we get something before the US store.

Glico Man

Sad to say I've never played this one. The only FF I've never played bar XIII. Gives me a great reason to go get it tomorrow, and I've no more college so perfect timing

Zapp Brannigan

Nice! Thinking about getting the US version of the store though, no horrible PAL borders.

thewheel2.0

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Nice! Thinking about getting the US version of the store though, no horrible PAL borders.

I dont understand what are PAL borders?

Retr0gamer

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

I dont understand what are PAL borders?

The version being released on the european PSN is the PAL version. It means that the game comes with dirty great black borders on the top and bottom of the screen. Even worse is that the game is slowed down as well to 50Hz making it run about 20% slower meaning the music is butchered and the game plays really choppily. Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdHUZlb7qs

Notice how slow the game is, how the music is awful and the blue borders that squash the view during gameplay. It's the same on PAL PS1 games. You should never buy games off the EU PSN since it's so easy to set up an alternative US PSN account and get the much better NTSC versions off that with Prepaid US PSN codes.

Have to agree that FFIX is by far the best FF of the 32-bit generation and got unfairly dismissed by a lot of the fans.

ArPharazon

When the hell will Resident Evil be on PSN? As far as I know its been on PSN in the US and Japan for ages. I have REmake but I'd like to play the original again.

Retr0gamer

Just get US PSN points and buy it from there. Nothing stopping you and you'll be getting a superior version

VenomIreland

I had no problems with MGS from the EU store.

2smiggy

where do you buy the US psn points from ? have wanted things from the US store in the past and it would be handy for me to know in the future

super_furry

Ebay, just be sure to us the .com site not the .ie.

Retr0gamer

VenomIreland wrote: »

I had no problems with MGS from the EU store.

That's because it's one of the very few PAL games that actually had a decent PAL conversion. Later Konami games usually have great PAL conversions so there's nothing to worry about with them but they are the only company that actually bothered. Squaresoft were by far the worse and all their PAL conversions were terrible.

thorbarry

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That's because it's one of the very few PAL games that actually had a decent PAL conversion. Later Konami games usually have great PAL conversions so there's nothing to worry about with them but they are the only company that actually bothered. Squaresoft were by far the worse and all their PAL conversions were terrible.

Any word on what the PAL version of ffIX is like?

Retr0gamer

thorbarry wrote: »

Any word on what the PAL version of ffIX is like?

It's the same PAL version that was released here in 2000. Black borders and slowed down gameplay and music with no PAL optimisation.

pablomakaveli

I still have my original copy of FF IX which still works in my PS3. Thought it was a massive improvement over FFVIII.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's the same PAL version that was released here in 2000. Black borders and slowed down gameplay and music with no PAL optimisation.

I just tested my PAL copy of FFVII and my US PSN copy of FFVII. On an HDTV, there are black borders with both version of the game, albeit the ones on the PAL copy are slightly thicker. I'm not noticing any slowdown but it's kind of hard to tell I guess without having them side by side or a YouTube video (like that Sonic video which makes the slowdown glaringly obvious).

On an HDTV you can use the PS3's upscaler so I think it makes the black border issue minimal. The issue of slowdown can be annoying. However having bought FFIX from the EU PSN the other day, I'm not noticing any slowdown. Perhaps it was a better conversion?

If you play the game on the PSP you can get rid of the black borders entirely, regardless of whether it's the PAL or NTSC version.

noodler

GothPunk wrote: »

I just tested my PAL copy of FFVII and my US PSN copy of FFVII. On an HDTV, there are black borders with both version of the game, albeit the ones on the PAL copy are slightly thicker. I'm not noticing any slowdown but it's kind of hard to tell I guess without having them side by side or a YouTube video (like that Sonic video which makes the slowdown glaringly obvious).

On an HDTV you can use the PS3's upscaler so I think it makes the black border issue minimal. The issue of slowdown can be annoying. However having bought FFIX from the EU PSN the other day, I'm not noticing any slowdown. Perhaps it was a better conversion?

If you play the game on the PSP you can get rid of the black borders entirely, regardless of whether it's the PAL or NTSC version.

Impressive argument made with evidence.

VenomIreland

I've just wathced that video with the Sonic game, people fail to notice that is not a comparison between 50Hz and 60Hz, that is forcing a 60Hz game to run in 50Hz, which will obviously slow it down.

Retr0gamer

VenomIreland wrote: »

I've just wathced that video with the Sonic game, people fail to notice that is not a comparison between 50Hz and 60Hz, that is forcing a 60Hz game to run in 50Hz, which will obviously slow it down.

Bad PAL conversions work the same way, they force the game into 50Hz. For the final fantasy games there will definitely be black borders since the game uses 2D backgrounds getting rid of the borders will mean redrawing every background which is too much work but I can assure you that the game runs slower than the NTSC version. There were a lot of complaint at the time that squares conversions were pathetic and sqauresoft only made an effort with a PAL conversion for Kingdom Hearts 2. I remember this because square actually released a press release stating that this would be the first but not the last game they would do a proper PAL conversion for because of the backlash over the atrocious FFX conversion.

Black borders really aren't too bad it's the slowdown that's bad. It slows the music down and makes the game not play as smoothly. You won't notice it unless you've played the NTSC version first and then go to the PAL version and there is a clear difference in playability and music tempo.

I'm not making this up I just want to warn people that buying the EU version of the games you aren't getting the best possible way to play the game.

VenomIreland

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not making this up I just want to warn people that buying the EU version of the games you aren't getting the best possible way to play the game.

Which is only in the case of Square and other developers with notorioulsy bad PAL conversions. With other Developers/games they can be just as good as the NTSC version.

noodler

I know your aren't lieing Retr0, but just for perspective, I put over 150 hours into each of the games in question without it ever bothering me.

Now ignorance is bliss with regards the comparisons etc but there is nothing actually wrong that will spoil your enjoyment.

That said, if they are the same price etc (whenever 9 hits the US) then why not I guess.

Retr0gamer

VenomIreland wrote: »

Which is only in the case of Square and other developers with notorioulsy bad PAL conversions. With other Developers/games they can be just as good as the NTSC version.

Yeah definitely and these days there's really no such thing as a bad PAL conversion since everything runs at 60Hz. However back in the 32-bit era there were very few games that got a decent PAL conversion. There's very few cases of developers making an effort. Rare did on the N64 since they were a british developer, Konami did with their later big games like MGS and Sega made a good effort on the Saturn. The vast majority of games got poor PAL conversions. It wasn't until the Dreamcast when PAL 60 was an option that it started to go and even in the early PS2 lifespan there were some awful conversions like the original Devil May Cry.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not making this up I just want to warn people that buying the EU version of the games you aren't getting the best possible way to play the game.

Didn't mean to imply you were making it up Retr0, only that perhaps you're making a mountain out of a molehill. When I have some time I might make a FFVII comparison video just for you. My point was only that I think that perhaps the upscaler on the PS3 makes this a non-issue.

Having never played FFIX before (yeah I know!) I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It looks absolutely beautiful on my PSP or my TV. I'm nearly finished FFXIII now so I'll be jumping straight into this as my next FF fix.

Retr0gamer

I had a long reply and the internet just ate it Anyway I think I'll test it on my PS3 tonight. I've Kula World PAL from PSN so will test for borders and check the speed against youtube videos of the NTSC version.

Retr0gamer

Ok, this is going to be harder than I thought. I tried Kula World and there are definite borders there that my NTSC games don't have. However I was wondering why the borders weren't as small as I thought. Turns out the game is nearly perfectly PAL optimised with increased resolution and the in game clock kept perfect time with my digital clock so I can't use that game and it's the only PAL game I've got.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ok, this is going to be harder than I thought. I tried Kula World and there are definite borders there that my NTSC games don't have. However I was wondering why the borders weren't as small as I thought. Turns out the game is nearly perfectly PAL optimised with increased resolution and the in game clock kept perfect time with my digital clock so I can't use that game and it's the only PAL game I've got.

I've got to admire your dedication! I promise I'll do a FFVII comparison, the only other PSone disc I have is MGS1 and I read you say that has a good PAL conversion. I'll have to do it with my laptop webcam though, don't expect anything spectacular.

I watched the intro to FFIX on my PSP and then played the instrumental track that plays during the intro on YouTube at the same time and they sounded identical to me. The PSP has a better upscaler than the PS3 as there is a custom screen size option so you can get rid of the black borders entirely. I have no idea why the PS3 doesn't have that option. Lol Sony. :pac:

Retr0gamer

I don't think you would have to go through that much trouble tbh. I just thought of a good way to check it easily with FF8 or FF7 (maybe FF9). The in game clock in the menu, I'm 99% sure that it's slow because of the poor PAL conversion. If you just check that the clock is slow than you'll know it's a bad conversion. The Music could well be sped up on the PAL games although with squares history I'd be surprised if it is!

As for the PS3 thing, it's usually a bit harder to get rid of PAL lines since they are programmed in as pixels that don't display anything. The PSP probably cuts them out but the PS3 would have to rescale which would mess up with the image ratio.

elekid

Are the loading times on PSP FFIX any better than they were on the PS1? It's my favourite FF by far so I want to download it but the flashbacks to how long it used to take each battle to start is putting me off slightly!

RedXIV

Loading times are still a bit drawn out when your not used to them but it's not that bad

noodler

RedXIV wrote: »

Loading times are still a bit drawn out when your not used to them but it's not that bad

Is it something in the game's architecture?

Why are there any loading times when it is now digital only?

Retr0gamer

It's because the data is streamed in while the game is still on. There's no black screen for loading. When you enter a battle the camera pans around for a couple of seconds to disguise the fact that the game is loading from CD and when you cast magic you get an animation from the character before the spell is cast, during which the Data is loaded from the CD. These transitions are hard coded into the game and even if the data is loaded before they are finished they have to play out first.TBH the random battle encounter rate is so low that it doesn't really affect the game.

Mindkiller

Hey retro, I have a question about buying NTSC games on PSN.
I have my code and have FFVIII and IX ready to download, only they're dling extremely slow.

Are there any ports or anything that need to be forwarded for buying off foreign stores or something? A proxy mebbe?

One MB of VIII so far :mad:. Grr...


Also, in response to the previous argument, I find the slowdown in the PAL version of VIII sticks out glaringly when you play the NTSC version.
It's not too bad in VII however. I've never played the PAL version of IX so I dunno bout that one.


Edit no.2

Ok, I redid all my network settings and I'm getting a decent speed now. Not as good as I'd like, but they'll be done by tonight .

Retr0gamer

Yeah you don't notice PAL slowdown until you've played the NTSC version but once you experience the difference there's no going back. The games play just so much smoother. I'm pretty sure there's slowdown in FFIX considering Square never bothered their arse doing a proper PAL conversion until Kingdom Hearts 2.