Israeli Secret Service asked to inspect Irish passport production facility

gandalf

Archie D Bunker nice emotive imagery of hunting down Israelis that :rolleyes:
Of course that is not the case and again it is deflecting from the actual point of this thread.

I suppose when you have two of Israel's close allies come out with statements like these.

The Australian government said a police investigation had left it in no doubt that the Israeli authorities were behind "the abuse and counterfeiting of the passports".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10145459.stm

Britain's foreign secretary David Miliband has taken the decision to expel an Israeli diplomat after the UK's serious organised crime agency turned up evidence that Israel cloned British passports.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8583041.stm

Followed up by expulsions by those said allies.

anymore

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, before we hunt down and deport all those despicable Israelis - maybe someone can remind me what evidence was ever shown that proves Israel was the culprit responsible for the Dubai killing?

Remember the Wolfe Tones song The men Behind the Wire ?
Being Irish Jewish made them guilty
So were guilty one and all !

anymore

deadtiger wrote: »

Archie D Bunker nice emotive imagery of hunting down Israelis that :rolleyes:
Of course that is not the case and again it is deflecting from the actual point of this thread.

I suppose when you have two of Israel's close allies come out with statements like these.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10145459.stm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8583041.stm

Followed up by expulsions by those said allies.

Meanwhile Mr Miliband's Government refuses to give figures for the numbers of Afghan civilians killed by their forces in Afghanistan !

gandalf

anymore wrote: »

Meanwhile Mr Miliband's Government refuses to give figures for the numbers of Afghan civilians killed by their forces in Afghanistan !

Deflection again my dear boy :rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind except you're not very skilled at it

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

Meanwhile Mr Miliband's Government refuses to give figures for the numbers of Afghan civilians killed by their forces in Afghanistan !

Just in - Robert Gabriel Mugabe is in the full of his health!!!!!!!.

Unless theres been a radical overhaul in the last half hour, you'll find that the party of the Miliband Bros. is no longer in power, and hasn't been for a number of days.

In addition to the questions put to you, you might explain why you post on threads where you've no intention of addressing the topic at hand. Other than the obvious.

Archie D Bunker

deadtiger wrote: »

Archie D Bunker nice emotive imagery of hunting down Israelis that :rolleyes:
Of course that is not the case and again it is deflecting from the actual point of this thread.

I suppose when you have two of Israel's close allies come out with statements like these.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10145459.stm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8583041.stm

Followed up by expulsions by those said allies.

Well, I must admit I was never inclined to believe everything the government (doesn't matter which government) tells me. I can also think of a couple of scenarios that would warrant/explain such actions by various governments even if Israel was not involved in the killing. I would have liked to see proof, any type, shape or size of proof. Just one small bit of it could have been enough. It is far easier for me to believe that this operation was orchestrated by other western countries (not Israel), could even have been a joint venture by several agencies.

Scofflaw

anymore wrote: »

Meanwhile Mr Miliband's Government refuses to give figures for the numbers of Afghan civilians killed by their forces in Afghanistan !

You've been repeatedly off-topic in this thread, in what looks remarkably like an attempt to derail discussion. Pack it in or be banned. Next valid complaint I have of you doing this is the last.

moderately,
Scofflaw

gandalf

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Well, I must admit I was never inclined to believe everything the government (doesn't matter which government) tells me.

I can understand that.

I can also think of a couple of scenarios that would warrant/explain such actions by various governments even if Israel was not involved in the killing.

Care to outline them?

I would have liked to see proof, any type, shape or size of proof. Just one small bit of it could have been enough.

From my point of view states that would have been seen as allies of Israel coming out with statements like the ones I linked to is pretty damning.

It is far easier for me to believe that this operation was orchestrated by other western countries (not Israel), could even have been a joint venture by several agencies.

Maybe from your bias I am sure it is. Again I would love to see what scenarios you have thought up as an alternative for this?

wes

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

It is far easier for me to believe that this operation was orchestrated by other western countries (not Israel), could even have been a joint venture by several agencies.

Why would they do that? I see no reason for anyone (who is sane) to get involved in the Israel/Palestine conflict, except those already involved. Hamas for all there faults have not attacked the West, and there entire conflict is with Israel.

What possible benefit could any other country get by getting involved? What reason would compel them to do such a thing?

alastair

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

It is far easier for me to believe that this operation was orchestrated by other western countries (not Israel), could even have been a joint venture by several agencies.

I have my doubts that Hamas in general, and Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in particular, would interest any western agency to the point that they would expose themselves to the diplomatic risks and logistical hassles of the Dubai murder. And there's the remarkable similarity with the undoubted (foiled) Mossad assassination attempt on Khaled Mashaal in Jordan in '97 - again with the injection and forged passports. Occam's razor and all that.

Archie D Bunker

wes wrote: »

Why would they do that? I see no reason for anyone (who is sane) to get involved in the Israel/Palestine conflict, except those already involved. Hamas for all there faults have not attacked the West, and there entire conflict is with Israel.

What possible benefit could any other country get by getting involved? What reason would compel them to do such a thing?

Well, let's not forget that Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was a Hamas terrorist, and he was in Dubai to conduct an arms deal with an Iranian arms dealer. That alone is enough to interest any western intelligence agency or government.
What if he was going to buy/sell nuclear arms or biological/chemical weapons?
Maybe he was killed because of his arms dealings with Iran?
Maybe he was killed because of an internal struggle within Hamas? (The only suspects to be questioned by the Dubai police were Palestinians if I recall correctly)
Maybe he was killed by Fatah?
Maybe he was killed by another arms dealer?
Maybe he was doing something else altogether in Dubai, which we know nothing about?
How can anyone explain the fact that according to the Dubai authorities, 2 of the alleged killers boarded a ship going to Iran after the hit? Mossad agents fleeing to Iran? are we seriously expected to believe that?
Are we seriously expected to believe that Mossad sent 40 men and women to kill one man in Dubai?

The Guardian's Brian Whitaker said:
"Mabhouh was also involved in the weapons business – a murky world where deals that go wrong can sometimes have fatal consequences – and there may even have been other governments that wanted him out of the way. In short, there's still a lot that we don't know about the murder, so it's unwise to jump to conclusions."

wes

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Well, let's not forget that Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was a Hamas terrorist, and he was in Dubai to conduct an arms deal with an Iranian arms dealer.

Why would they care? Why get into a fight, that doesn't involve you? If the West has issues with Iran, it would make more sense to go after his Iranian contact and not him.

As for the other groups you mention. Again, there is little or no suggestion it was any one other than Israel. Why would countries which are pretty pro-Israel expel diplomats. Its doesn't add up at all, that would do such a thing, if it was really a Hamas inner stuggle or something like that. It simple doesn't make sense.

How could he buy nuclear arms from Iran, when they don't have any? Even the US doesn't accuse them of having them, just having a weapon program to aquire them. Sorry, but the other explanations don't make sense, and imho need a lot of apologetics to get them to work.

I am not jumping to any conclusions. Several states friendly to Israel, have basically said Israel did it, and acted accordingly. That is more than enough proof for me.

gandalf

wes wrote: »

Several states friendly to Israel, have basically said Israel did it, and acted accordingly. That is more than enough proof for me.

And its enough proof for me as well.

Archie D Bunker unfortunately I don't think any of your theories are as strong as the one that Mossad was behind this murder. They have form and they have motive. Israeli allies have stated openly that they believe after investigation that Israel was behind the action and they have gone as far as ejecting Israeli diplomats from their jurisdictions.

Given you only seem to comment on Israeli related subjects I guess that one you are not Irish and two these are subjects close to your heart.

BlaasForRafa

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That is about the sum of it. Israel appears to do as it likes and all logic, Laws, Passports, killings do not apply when it suits Israel. So it is impossible to argue when most other countries are bound by the rules...... like children playing football and some do not play by the rules or change them to suit.

this thread is mental, lets all boo-hoo for the dead terrorist!

dlofnep

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

this thread is mental, lets all boo-hoo for the dead terrorist!

You can be sure however, that is Hamas murdered a top Israeli military general in a sovereign state on Irish passports - you'd be sure to come on here and tell us all about it, now wouldn't you?

BlaasForRafa

dlofnep wrote: »

You can be sure however, that is Hamas murdered a top Israeli military general in a sovereign state on Irish passports - you'd be sure to come on here and tell us all about it, now wouldn't you?

If that happened, Mossad would take revenge and they would be right to do so.

dlofnep

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If that happened, Mossad would take revenge and they would be right to do so.

That's not what I asked you.

gandalf

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

this thread is mental, lets all boo-hoo for the dead terrorist!

This thread is about the forgery of Irish passports and the misuse of those forgeries. It seems you agree that its OK to forge passports and use them for assassinations?

caseyann

RATM wrote: »

This story just gets more weird. It turns out the Israeli Secret Service asked for an inspection trip to an Irish Passport facility in Balbriggan before they carried out the hit in Dubai.

Full article
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/israelis-asked-to-visit-passport-plant-here-before-dubai-killing-2190468.html

Why in the world would they even be allowed to inspect a government building or want to,that has absolutely nothing to do with their country
And who is the idiot who allowed it?

gandalf

caseyann wrote: »

Why in the world would they even be allowed to inspect a government building or want to,that has absolutely nothing to do with their country
And who is the idiot who allowed it?

From the article

The Israelis asked if they could send a small team to examine the DFA's manufacturing plant in Balbriggan, Co Dublin, where a new biometric security feature was built into the passports.


The request was refused.

But it adds to the evidence that they were up to something.

However we're still waiting for the Irish Government to take decisive action like the British and the Australians to empathise to Israel that this kind of activity is not on.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RATM wrote: »

This story just gets more weird. It turns out the Israeli Secret Service asked for an inspection trip to an Irish Passport facility in Balbriggan before they carried out the hit in Dubai.

If we look at that outside of the Dubai elimination I doubt there's anything wrong with one country wishing to look at the security procedures surrounding passports.

I'm sure we've looked to satisfy ourselves on other's procedures before allowing that countries passport holders free access to Ireland.

Anyway, and this is coming from an ardent Israeli supporter..

I've little doubt Mossad carried out this killing, and forged Irish passports to do it..

Yup, lets carry out a little political window dressing and expell an Israeli diplomat, probably a lowly services officer or something. It'll look good for awhile, ya know - the mouse that roared!.

gandalf

Amina Bald Egg wrote: »

Yup, lets carry out a little political window dressing and expell an Israeli diplomat, probably a lowly services officer or something. It'll look good for awhile, ya know - the mouse that roared!.

More importantly try to show that we value our passports integrity especially for Irish Citizens who use those passports as intended in the middle east. You know so they aren't under suspicion of being a Mossad agent on an operation when they visit Dubai etc.

UltimateMale

I see there has been a development in the investigation of the passport criminality of the Israeli's.

" TOP OFFICIALS from several Government departments and the Garda have recommended the expulsion of an Israeli embassy security officer "

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0602/1224271678155.html

And also Israel's Ambassador has withdrawn from a meeting of the Oireachtas Foreign Affairs Committee, which was scheduled to take place tomorrow due to 'unforeseen circumstances' Lord but their pathetic, they make Fianna Fail look like professionals.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0602/mideast.html

nacho libre

Amina Bald Egg wrote: »

If we look at that outside of the Dubai elimination I doubt there's anything wrong with one country wishing to look at the security procedures surrounding passports.

/QUOTE]

well, given that the list of intelligence agencies who were known to operate here at one time or another in the eighties, i think it is a sensible request to turn down on security grounds.

caseyann

UltimateMale wrote: »

I see there has been a development in the investigation of the passport criminality of the Israeli's.

" TOP OFFICIALS from several Government departments and the Garda have recommended the expulsion of an Israeli embassy security officer "

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0602/1224271678155.html

And also Israel's Ambassador has withdrawn from a meeting of the Oireachtas Foreign Affairs Committee, which was scheduled to take place tomorrow due to 'unforeseen circumstances' Lord but their pathetic, they make Fianna Fail look like professionals.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0602/mideast.html

Looks like they were trying to stir trouble and blame other nations on their assassination.Could have caused attacks in Ireland etc... for revenge.Then Irish would have been up in arms against palestinians. Pattern forms.
Good to see they are taking some measures to catch who forged the documents.Or is this poor idiot just a fall guy to appease.

caseyann

deadtiger wrote: »

From the article



But it adds to the evidence that they were up to something.

However we're still waiting for the Irish Government to take decisive action like the British and the Australians to empathise to Israel that this kind of activity is not on.

Someone got in and pulled off 1970's versions of them anyway.
It did remind me of the Brady bunch.First second saw the ids,i was thinking they looked fake not to mention not Irish

mrboswell

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If that happened, Mossad would take revenge and they would be right to do so.

An eye for an eye?

We know where you stand anyway.

oppenheimer1

anymore wrote: »

The reason Irish passports are so useful to foreign governments is that Minister martin refuses to make our passports more difficult to forge according to a report by Phoenix a few months ago.

Apart from forgery anyway Irish Governments sell irish passports to wealthy foreigners anyway so Irish Citizenship is a commodity like anyother - hard to see why foreign governments would have any respect for irish passports - we obivously dont.-

What? Our new passports are one of the most secure documents in the world. Ease of forgery may be true for the old type, but not the new ones. Note how all the Israeli forged ones were the old type.

IH77

The Irish Republic is to expel an Israeli diplomat over the use of fake passports in the killing of a Hamas official in Dubai.
Foreign Minister Micheal Martin said an investigation had proved that eight Irish passports used in the operation were forgeries.
Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was found dead in a Dubai hotel in January.

Dubai police have said they are 99% sure Israeli agents were involved, though Israel says there is no proof.
Mr Martin said in a statement that Israel had been "requested to withdraw a designated member of staff of its embassy" and that he expected the request would "be quickly acceded to".

"The misuse of Irish passports by a state with which Ireland enjoys friendly, if sometimes frank, bilateral relations is clearly unacceptable and requires a firm response," he said.
Forged British, French, Australian, and German passports were also used in the Dubai operation.
The UK and Australia have already expelled Israeli nationals over the forgeries.
'No denial'

Mr Martin said the Irish had co-operated closely with British and Australian authorities in their investigation of the killing.
He cited "the inescapable conclusion that an Israeli government agency was responsible for the misuse and, most likely, the manufacture of the forged Irish passports associated with the murder of Mr Mabhouh".
Irish authorities had asked for Israeli help in their investigation, he said, but such efforts had "yielded no response and no denial of Israeli involvement".

Six of the eight fake passports used the numbers of existing Irish passport holders, while the other two contained invented numbers conforming to the Irish format, the foreign ministry said.

Mr Martin said those whose passport numbers had been used had been issued with new passports and that he was confident this would allow them "to travel free from any suspicion".

"As I have stated from the outset, my priority throughout this affair has been to ensure the security of the innocent Irish citizens affected and to protect the integrity of the Irish passport," he said.
Last week it emerged that authorities in Poland arrested a suspected Israeli agent in connection with Mr Mabhouh's death.
Germany is seeking his extradition over a forged German passport used by one of the killers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/10319210.stm

BluePlanet

One diplomat for 8 passports isn't so great.

Why not expel 8 diplomats?