Conjoined twins flown home by the Air corps

Stinicker

Cork twins, Hassan and Hussein Benhaffaf, who were separated by surgeons in London’s Great Ormond Street Hospital, have arrived home to Cork today, just one month after the operation.

The twins arrived at Cork airport this afternoon in an Air Corp Casa aircraft which transported them, their parents Angie and Azzedine and sisters Malika and Iman.

Article Link


So the benhaffaf twins today returned to Ireland after their surgery to have them separated. However what genius decided it was a good idea for the Irish Air Corps to fly them home? I am not a big aviation person but this sounds like pure insanity. To fly that aircraft back and forth to the UK must have cost the Irish taxpayer many tens of thousands of Euro in fuel, wages and landing fees.

Thousands of Irish people get sick every year abroad and I have never seen the Air Corps go on a rescue mission for them or even attempt to bring stranded people home during the Volcanic disruption. The Benhaffaf family should have either flown home on a commercial flight or else got an air ambulance.

While I wish the twins and their family all the best I have very serious reservations about using state money on such wasteful missions.

Opinions?

Mena

Oh great, another begrudgery thread.

Orange69

I agree with you OP, they should have gotten a ryanair flight like the rest of the ****-munchers.

phasers

It costs tens of thousands of euro to fly a plane to the UK? :eek:

Victor

The Air Corps operate Air Ambulance services.

They were involved in the evacuation of people from Lebanon during the 2006 war.

There would be a problem with the Air Corps flying with the ash cloud problem. And given the profile of the aircraft they have, typically with seating for less than 10-12 people they couldn't make much of an effect on people stranded after the skies cleared.

According to the 2007 DF Annual Report the AC spent their time doing the following (bear in mind they were using some aircraft that have now been replaced). This is just to give you an idea:

Air Ambulance - 97 missions - 267 hours

MATS (not including helicopters) - 192 missions - 544 hours

Maritime Patrol / Coastal patrol / support to Customs (not just CASA also helicopters & Cessnas) - 235 missions - 1425 hours

GASU (Garda aircraft) - 1990 missions - 1775 hours

CatFromHue

because by having those two little baby's alive and well in Ireland makes people feel good.

i feel good about it and i dont particularly like kids.

now go count some beans Mr. Bean Counter

Biggins

+ as a military transport, it could fly at different non-commercial areas, heights zones to avoid ash clouds should they have appeared.

Good luck to the two little ones.

Scarydoll

Sure all that matters is that they are alive and well. I wish them and their family well.

the_syco

Orange69 wrote: »

I agree with you OP, they should have gotten a ryanair flight like the rest of the ****-munchers.

From ryanair.ie:

For regulatory reasons, infants aged between 8 days and 23 months at date of travel cannot travel in their own seat and must sit on an adult's lap. The charge for carriage of infants is £20/€20 (or local currency equivalent) per infant/per one way flight (maximum one infant per adult).

The children are 5 months old. Having them on the laps of the adults after operation may not be a clever idea.

Orange69

the_syco wrote: »

From ryanair.ie:

The children are 5 months old. Having them on the laps of the adults after operation may not be a clever idea.

Because of the €40 fee? On a positive note they would have only be charged €20 on the way over.

Victor

.

Statement, 21 May 2010, 3pm.

The Air Corps have to date conducted 31 Air Ambulance missions since 01
January 2010.

In the past 72 hours alone, six Air Ambulance missions have been flown by
the Air Corps, including five to the UK. Four of these missions were carried
out using the Learjet 45; one using a CASA fixed wing aircraft and one using
an AW 139 helicopter.

Air Ambulance missions are carried out in accordance with a Service Level
Agreement which exists between the Department of Defence and the Department
of Health and Children. Such missions include the transfer of organ
retrieval and transplant teams as well as acutely ill patients between
various locations in Ireland and the UK.

The aircraft used to conduct Air Ambulance operations are:

• CASA CN235.
• Learjet 45.
• Augusta Westland (AW) 139.
• Eurocopter (EC) 135.

The Learjet 45, AW 139 and EC 135 all have the capability to enable a ‘Life
Port’ system to be installed if required. This system allows a stretcher to
be transferred directly from an ambulance onto the aircraft with all life
support systems remaining fully operational. Each aircraft is fully
compatible with the power supply and oxygen requirements of all medical
teams.

The Air Corps remains on standby 24 hours a day to conduct Air Ambulance
missions in accordance with the Service Level Agreement.


END.



Neil Nolan
Commandant
Defence Forces Press Officer

Preasoifig Óglaigh na hÉireann,



Defence Forces HQ, Infirmary Road, Dublin 7

Ceanncheathrú Óglaigh na hÉireann, Bóthar na hOtharlainne, BÁC 7.



p: +353 1 8042687 / f: +353 1 6779018
pressofficer@defenceforces.iol.ie

www.military.ie / Facebook / Twitter

rovert

Thats got to cost 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of all our taxes

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Mrmoe

I don't think this is a waste of tax payers money. There are a lot more cases where money is wasted and this is definitely not one. I hope they make a full and speedy recovery.

Stinicker

This is something the private sector excels at and the state should not be flying sick patients overseas with the exception of organ transplant patients if a private service was unavailable due to the time sensitive nature of organ donations. It is bad enough that our taxes are wasted on socialised medicine but to run an air ambulance service free gratis for the population is a sick joke. This family and all the others should have to pay for their own transport or else put it through their insurance.

rovert

Stinicker wrote: »

This is something the private sector excels at and the state should not be flying sick patients overseas with the exception of organ transplant patients if a private service was unavailable due to the time sensitive nature of organ donations. It is bad enough that our taxes are wasted on socialised medicine but to run an air ambulance service free gratis for the population is a sick joke. This family and all the others should have to pay for their own transport or else put it through their insurance.

Of all the cases....

peasant

If somebody had come and collected a tenner off me to help pay for that flight, I'd have happily given it.

Flying Mary Harney to the opening of an off-licence on the other hand ....

The Master

Is this the best thing you can think of to moan about today?

The 2 little babies are home safe and well

The state stepped and gave them a lift home,

Government does something nice for a change no need to whinge about it

APM

thats proper use of the government aircraft in my opinion. Those kids would be far too at risk from the germs of the other 180+ passengers onboard if they were to travel with the public

Steyr

The Air Corps CASA CN235MPA Aircraft that was used is a Maritime Patrol Aircraft, they are also used in the Air Ambulance role to transport very ill people to various locations and for Organ transplants, This is nothing new at all.

The CASA's we operate are also used for Parachuting operations, Search and Rescue top cover and Military Transport, due to the size of the CASA's its no problem for them to multi-task and as this was a mercy mission she would have been given priority passage thru Irish and UK Airspace.


I believe your getting worked up over nothing. If it was one of your realtions would you rather they go on Ryanair or an Irish Military Aircraft with all the Professionalism/Experience of the Irish Air Corps and the Spohisticated Aircraft in question that is capable of taking Crew/Medics/Stretchers/Life Support/ whatever else is needed etc when she is not over the Oceans on Ops ???

Steyr

APM wrote: »

thats proper use of the government jet in my opinion.

Not a Govt Jet APM, Im shocked at you!!:eek::D

Lollymcd

Orange69 wrote: »

Because of the €40 fee? On a positive note they would have only be charged €20 on the way over.

This was the second thing to make me smile today...the first was hearing the Benhaffaf twins got home safe and sound.

threebeards

Stinicker wrote: »

This is something the private sector excels at and the state should not be flying sick patients overseas with the exception of organ transplant patients if a private service was unavailable due to the time sensitive nature of organ donations. It is bad enough that our taxes are wasted on socialised medicine but to run an air ambulance service free gratis for the population is a sick joke.

My God, I've heard begrudgery statements in the past but this takes the buscuit. I really hope when you have kids, if you don't already, that they never need to go abroad for medical care. I guarantee your high moral argument would change then.

Stinicker wrote: »

This family and all the others should have to pay for their own transport or else put it through their insurance.

How the fcuk do you know that their insurers aren't footing the bill?:mad:

Biggins

APM wrote: »

thats proper use of the government aircraft in my opinion. Those kids would be far too at risk from the germs of the other 180+ passengers onboard if they were to travel with the public

Thats a very good point seeing as the air in the plane gets recirculated.

Stinicker

It is frivolous wasteful spending like this that is the reason Ireland is in economic depression. People need to man up and learn to take responsibility for their own lives and destiny, everybody expects to get something from the Government.

If I had a private air ambulance service I'd be pretty mad to see the Government competing with me by giving patients free rides home. It is a disgrace and this socialist "entitlement" culture so prevelent in Ireland and Europe is what has crushed our economies and has seen the Euro currency collapsed and on life support by the German government.

Proper government use of Jets is as a Ministerial transport and and any other such planes should be got rid of and let the private citizens choose their own air ambulances. The market will soon adapt and with medical insurance it will allow another industry to develop where state intervention has held it back.

rovert

Stinicker wrote: »

It is frivolous wasteful spending like this that is the reason Ireland is in economic depression.

Dumb

Cant take you seriously

Troll away

Biggins

Stinicker wrote: »

It is frivolous wasteful spending like this that is the reason Ireland is in economic depression. People need to man up and learn to take responsibility for their own lives and destiny, everybody expects to get something from the Government.

If I had a private air ambulance service I'd be pretty mad to see the Government competing with me by giving patients free rides home. It is a disgrace and this socialist "entitlement" culture so prevelent in Ireland and Europe is what has crushed our economies and has seen the Euro currency collapsed and on life support by the German government.

Proper government use of Jets is as a Ministerial transport and and any other such planes should be got rid of and let the private citizens choose their own air ambulances. The market will soon adapt and with medical insurance it will allow another industry to develop where state intervention has held it back.

O' for gawds sake man.
I'm a pain the ass about moaning about our useless crooks in the Dail but I wouldn't begrudge treating our own civilians in very rare cases which happen, to specialist treatments or rarer more carefully organised transports.
It could have been my son/daughter and maybe some day (hopefully not), your own.
Feck me - kop yourself on and grow up.

Steyr

Stinicker wrote: »

Proper government use of Jets is as a Ministerial transport and and any other such planes should be got rid of and let the private citizens choose their own air ambulances. .

Cop on to yourself, I am a very big admirer of the Irish Air Corps and the Defence Forces as a whole and all they do for us as a Nation that we never ever hear about in the mainstream, but i do not for one second agree with you there, if Tony Blair could fly British Airways while he was in power then we should do away with our Goverment VIP Jet and let them fly FR* or EI* and that money could be put back into the IAC for more CASA's they do stirling work in Maritime Patrol/Mercy Missions, your post disgusts me.


FR=Ryanair
EI=Aer Lingus

Mac daddy

Another great way of spending the Irish taxpayers money..

rainbowdrop

Stinicker wrote: »

It is frivolous wasteful spending like this that is the reason Ireland is in economic depression. People need to man up and learn to take responsibility for their own lives and destiny, everybody expects to get something from the Government.

If I had a private air ambulance service I'd be pretty mad to see the Government competing with me by giving patients free rides home. It is a disgrace and this socialist "entitlement" culture so prevelent in Ireland and Europe is what has crushed our economies and has seen the Euro currency collapsed and on life support by the German government.

Proper government use of Jets is as a Ministerial transport and and any other such planes should be got rid of and let the private citizens choose their own air ambulances. The market will soon adapt and with medical insurance it will allow another industry to develop where state intervention has held it back.

Hope to God that you or one of your loved ones is never involved in a serious accident and has to be airlifted to a hospital. Will you class it as a waste of money then? I doubt it!!

I'm delighted that my taxes contributed in some small way to those babies being brought back home to Ireland......

Good luck to Hassan, Hussein and their family is what I say!!

Stinicker

Biggins wrote: »

O' for gawds sake man.
I'm a pain the ass about moaning about our useless crooks in the Dail but I wouldn't begrudge treating our own civilians in VERY rare cases to specialist treatments or rarer more carefully organised transports.
It could have been my son daughter and maybe some day (hopefully not), you own.
Feck me - kop yourself on and grow up.

But this is not a rare case, while the banhaffaf twins were conjoined they were rare medical case in Ireland. However citizens being transported by the state on Air Corps planes is not rare as Victor has pointed out, this is not about party politics or who is in government it is about the fact that a line must be drawn in the sand as to what the state does for a person.

The HSE as it stands is the difference between a budget deficit and breaking even and a surplus. It guzzles money and gives little in return and all it has done is breed a generation of useless chavtastic people in this country who think the Government owes them something. I myself as a beleiver in the Laissez Faire way of doing things want nothing from the Government only for them to stop interfering and taxing our lives.

Flying these twins home is a prime example of the sort of molycoddling the state does to its citizens which is destroying both the state and preventing people from having any aspirations in life or wanting to better themselves when they have cradle to the grave to fall back on. Irish people are not living in the real world and if transported back two hundred years ago most would be dead in a week as they are like pet dogs depending on the state for every single thing.

Biggins

Stinicker wrote: »

But this is not a rare case, while the banhaffaf twins were conjoined they were rare medical case in Ireland. However citizens being transported by the state on Air Corps planes is not rare as Victor has pointed out, this is not about party politics or who is in government it is about the fact that a line must be drawn in the sand as to what the state does for a person.

The HSE as it stands is the difference between a budget deficit and breaking even and a surplus. It guzzles money and gives little in return and all it has done is breed a generation of useless chavtastic people in this country who think the Government owes them something. I myself as a beleiver in the Laissez Faire way of doing things want nothing from the Government only for them to stop interfering and taxing our lives.

Flying these twins home is a prime example of the sort of molycoddling the state does to its citizens which is destroying both the state and preventing people from having any aspirations in life or wanting to better themselves when they have cradle to the grave to fall back on. Irish people are not living in the real world and if transported back two hundred years ago most would be dead in a week as they are like pet dogs depending on the state for every single thing.

Its sad that you just don't get it. End of story. See ya.

Stinicker

Stinicker wrote: »

Flying these twins home is a prime example of the sort of molycoddling the state does to its citizens which is destroying both the state and preventing people from having any aspirations in life or wanting to better themselves when they have cradle to the grave to fall back on. .

Oh ****, they've ruined their lives!

They'll never get to university now :eek:

peasant

Stinicker wrote: »

Irish people are not living in the real world

The only one not living in the real world is you.

The twins at the moment are more healing wound than baby, they needed the air ambulance, they got the air ambulance.

/thread


Sometimes, when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, just shutting up is an option worth considering

rovert

Stinicker wrote: »

The HSE as it stands is the difference between a budget deficit and breaking even and a surplus. It guzzles money and gives little in return and all it has done is breed a generation of useless chavtastic people in this country who think the Government owes them something. I myself as a beleiver in the Laissez Faire way of doing things want nothing from the Government only for them to stop interfering and taxing our lives.

Wut

Mac daddy wrote: »

Another great way of spending the Irish taxpayers money..

You forgot to finish that sentence there

Nodin

Orange69 wrote: »

I agree with you OP, they should have gotten a ryanair flight like the rest of the ****-munchers.

Who are the ****-munchers, might I ask?

Orange69

Nodin wrote: »

Who are the ****-munchers, might I ask?

Just regular people, check out 'peepshow', its very funny.

Lollymcd

Nodin wrote: »

Who are the ****-munchers, might I ask?

I'm not sure I know what the **** stands for...

Yeah I can imagine but it doesn't realy make sense!!!

Steyr

So Stinicker at what point of the Selection process did you not get accepted for a Cadetship to become a Pilot in the Irish Air Corps?

yerayeah

Of all the things you could have picked to moan about, this is ridiculous!
Two children who have spent the vast majority of their lives in an ICU and you think they should be thrown onto an Aer Lingus or Ryanair plane?
That's a bit silly tbh...

SugarHigh

Don't the planes have to be flown on trips like this anyway just to keep them working?

PARKHEAD67

CatFromHue wrote: »

because by having those two little baby's alive and well in Ireland makes people feel good.

i feel good about it and i dont particularly like kids.

now go count some beans Mr. Bean Counter

You dont particularly like kids? What a totally stupid idiotic comment. You were once a kid I presume.

Steyr

SugarHigh wrote: »

Don't the planes have to be flown on trips like this anyway just to keep them working?

Nope. The CASA's are nearly always up doing something, that is if they are not in for maintenance.

Stinicker

Steyr wrote: »

So Stinicker at what point of the Selection process did you not get accepted for a Cadetship to become a Pilot in the Irish Air Corps?

If you are insinuating that I have some sort of a grudge against the Irish Air Corps then you are very mistaken. Our Air Corps do sterling work and are a great asset to the nation.

However I beleive their time and resources could be better spent than using their planes are Air Ambulances. I think that the money wasted running this service which the private sector could do far more efficiently should be spent on equipping Ireland with some decent air defences and say 10 or 15 either F-16 or Eurofighters.

If a Ryanair or Aer Lingus plane was tomorrow morning hijacked by some terrorists who threatened to crash it somewhere in Dublin, Ireland does not have the capability to shoot it down. And before people suggest the RAF would come to the rescue, say it was a Lufthansa or Air France jet, do you think the RAF or British military would risk provoking an incident with another country to help their Irish neighbours? Smaller poorer countries than us have air forces many times bigger and better equipped.

So unconcerned are our government with National Security that on the recent Motorway's built across Ireland there was not one single airstrip incorporated into the design build of the motorways when for practically no extra cost the Irish government could have built between 5 or 10 emergency highway strips that could be converted into Airfields in a time of war or national emergency. But I guess transporting some sick people is higher up the agenda of this government.

yerayeah wrote: »

Of all the things you could have picked to moan about, this is ridiculous!
Two children who have spent the vast majority of their lives in an ICU and you think they should be thrown onto an Aer Lingus or Ryanair plane?
That's a bit silly tbh...

I was not suggesting they take a Ryanair plane I would hardly recommend that to any fit or sane person! However there are private air ambulances or else they would charter a private plane to transport themselves.

Micky Dolenz

This whole twins story has really brought with it a warm fuzzy feeling for the nation. Whats that worth?

Liam Byrne

Ideally, our government would be able to provide this for all serious cases.

The fact that they can do it for one doesn't fix that, but it certainly makes me feel better about being Irish in the current dog-eat-dog, pay the fat-cats and screw the public climate.

Very few things this government has done has made me feel proud, but this was one.

Joey the lips

Bahh humbug... I think it was a brilliant thought by the irish govt.

SugarHigh

Steyr wrote: »

Nope. The CASA's are nearly always up doing something, that is if they are not in for maintenance.

Like what?

Just curious I'm not being confrontational. I was under the impression that these aircraft had to be in the air a certain amount each year for maintenance so they basically use any excuse to fly them.

Steyr

SugarHigh wrote: »

Like what?

Just curious I'm not being confrontational. I was under the impression that these aircraft had to be in the air a certain amount each year for maintenance so they basically use any excuse to fly them.

The CASA's perform a myriad of tasks from:

Maritime patrolling ( Inshore/Offshore ), air ambulance, military transport, Search and Rescue top cover and Parachuting operations. They have an endurance of 8 hours.

Also from military.ie

These aircraft entered service in 1994 and operate seven days a week usually in the off shore maritime patrol arena.

Working in close conjunction with the Naval Service, the CASA CN 235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft of 101 Squadron provide an aerial platform for patrolling the Irish Economic Zone, an area of approximately 132,000 square miles or 16% of the total EU sea fisheries. This in itself represents an area almost five times the land area of Ireland.

Poccington

Stinicker wrote: »

If you are insinuating that I have some sort of a grudge against the Irish Air Corps then you are very mistaken. Our Air Corps do sterling work and are a great asset to the nation.

However I beleive their time and resources could be better spent than using their planes are Air Ambulances. I think that the money wasted running this service which the private sector could do far more efficiently should be spent on equipping Ireland with some decent air defences and say 10 or 15 either F-16 or Eurofighters.

If a Ryanair or Aer Lingus plane was tomorrow morning hijacked by some terrorists who threatened to crash it somewhere in Dublin, Ireland does not have the capability to shoot it down. And before people suggest the RAF would come to the rescue, say it was a Lufthansa or Air France jet, do you think the RAF or British military would risk provoking an incident with another country to help their Irish neighbours? Smaller poorer countries than us have air forces many times bigger and better equipped.

So unconcerned are our government with National Security that on the recent Motorway's built across Ireland there was not one single airstrip incorporated into the design build of the motorways when for practically no extra cost the Irish government could have built between 5 or 10 emergency highway strips that could be converted into Airfields in a time of war or national emergency. But I guess transporting some sick people is higher up the agenda of this government.

Seriously, do you honestly think this Government or any future Government would sanction the purchase of 10 or 15 Eurofighters?

You do realise our Defence budget is an absolute disgrace don't you?

punchdrunk

all I can think of is,if they had to "ryanair it" the papers would have a field day saying the air corps lads are out in Baldonnel sittin on their holes

...and I can imagine who'd be the first boardsie to start the indignation filled,Joe Duffyesque thread about it too

Poccington

Poccington wrote: »

Seriously, do you honestly think this Government or any future Government would sanction the purchase of 10 or 15 Eurofighters?

You do realise our Defence budget is an absolute disgrace don't you?

silly billy, don't you know if they stopped flying all these separated/conjoined twins all over the place we'd be able to afford 50 fighter jets :rolleyes:

Best of luck to the two little fellas. They've had a tough enough start to life without people talking about them as if they're an expensive burden on the country.