Is Android catching up fast??

Gryzor

Not lookin to cause a riot here, its a genuine question. I haven't been keeping up with the Android OS at all. Just saw a new version was announced.

Is Android upto the mark yet in terms of functionality and apps?? With the launch of the new iphone around the corner, is Android a real alternative??

mickoneill30

Probably better to have a read through this forum.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1343

or more specifically this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055658304

Apple guys are going to say Apples better. Android guys will say Android.

I suppose like any OS, you'd define your problem and then see if the OS has the tools to solve it and if they all do then choose the one that looks the best

jd83

I dont know whats going to be on the next apple os. But android 2.2 looks like its way ahead of the current apple os. I switched to android and got a nexus one after owning and iphone. I had never really had any other apple or android devices prior to this. Ive been using my android phone a few months now and its just a hell of a lot better than the iphone and it was cheaper! and thats with 2.1. 2.2 (Froyo) will be out soon and there working on 2.3 (Gingerbread) also.

Gryzor

jd83 wrote: »

a hell of a lot better than the iphone

Better how??

jd83

Im using a nexus one on android 2.1. So far I find

-browsing and 3g speeds a lot quicker than i had on the iphone.
-Battery life a lot better and have the option of changing batt if needed.
-Phone signal for calls is better and doesnt drop calls.
-There is less apps but most of the apps i use are already on android.
- Google apps are better on android than iphone especially the mail app.
- Multitasking.
- a lot less restricitive than iphone dont need to insrall third party hacks to get my phone to do what i want it to do
- built in turn by turn navigation
- cheaper phone than iphone


Then just google the stuff 2.2 has and add that aswell and as far as im concerned miles ahead of iphone

Dades

Can just use your phone like a hard drive, and upload your music/videos like you would a regular MP3 player?

Or is there some form of Android iTunes...

jd83

Its just like a hard drive. Drag and drop. But with 2.2 you can stream from itunes over the air. You will be able to sync app and i think music over the air. Like for example if you buy an app in the market on your laptop it will automatically appear on your phone.

See the video below fornew features:

BrianD

It's a done deal that Android will overtake Apple and has already done so in some markets. The reason is that Android is appearing on far more handsets from different manufacturers.

Apple still have the killer USP with itunes for retailing apps and music.

There's another serious contender using a different OS due in the market over the summer.

mickoneill30

Dades wrote: »

Can just use your phone like a hard drive, and upload your music/videos like you would a regular MP3 player?

Yep. The SDCard just mounts as a hard drive when you plug in the USB cable. Then you can copy your files over just using Windows.
Or there are apps (e.g. EStrong File Explorer) that will let you connect to shares on your PC or server and you can just copy files from your PC wirelessly.

Dades wrote: »

Or is there some form of Android iTunes...

I don't know if there's an Android specific app. I use MediaMonkey to synch music over to my phone.

Dades

Apple will always have a market share as long as people want a funky interface with no brainwork required. Though I think that market will be chipped away as Android becomes all it promises to be.

I also think the (alleged) new iPhone handset puts the software under more scrutiny than ever before - as the hardware is no longer the prettiest girl at the dance. And given that OS 4.0 doesn't really offer the "standard" user a new experience - just stuff that should have been there - I just wonder...

The exclusion of homepage/lock screen widgets is a big mistake, imo. The Android homepage customisation is a huge feature. The new iPhone publicity shots will have a homepage that just looks like a jailbroken 3G.

Big decision for me come June 7th. It may involve amputation though, for removal of my iPhone from my cold, dead hand.

jester77

doubletwist is good for syncing itunes playlists plus you can browse the android marketplace with it, well worth the download, plus you can use the Amazon MP3 store with it which is excellent.

I like android but the apps I use still lag behind. My iphone packed it in a while back and I now have an android device. Missed my iphone apps so much that I bought an ipod touch. No Skype, poorer version of Facebook, nothing close to Beejive, MyNZB miles ahead of the android version, remotes itunes and plex contollers, no android version for my banking app. I'm sure this will change over time and hopefully android apps will start getting a more consistent interface like the iphone apps.

jd83

There is less apps out there for android. But as it becomes more popular these apps will become available. Im lucky most of the apps i used on the iphone where available on android. I miss my sling box app but thats due to be released this summer on android. I suppose i also miss the music player on the iphone it is better than the player on android. But i got tunewiki now which is pretty good.

Pittens

Hmm, I wouldn't write off the iPhone just yet. If the new iPhone is as fast as an iPad- which screams - it will be very fast indeed.

Customization of home screens is pretty much on the cards. minor stuff anyway.

Interesting that the Android appears faster on 2.1, since they admit in that video that the JIT for 2.1 sucks? Apples code runs natively. So why is that?

I havent used Android machines much, but when I did they seemed like mollasses.

I have an ideological reason to not go with Goggle, though. They are entering the mobile market to copper fasten their search monopoly. So will stick with Apple.

PeakOutput

Pittens wrote: »

Hmm, I wouldn't write off the iPhone just yet. If the new iPhone is as fast as an iPad- which screams - it will be very fast indeed.

i dont know about general use but the browser in 2.1 and 2.2 is faster than the browser in the ipad by a long shot

Pittens

dont know about general use but the browser in 2.1 and 2.2 is faster than the browser in the ipad by a long shot

Presumably you mean iPod? Or iPhone?

Pittens

BTW ont he subject of games, does android have an OpenGL layer?

PeakOutput

Pittens wrote: »

Presumably you mean iPod? Or iPhone?

nope you can see a demo from the google i/o yesterday which compares teh browser in the ipad to a android 2.1 and an android 2.2 phone

the speed difference over the tests is pretty shocking

Pittens

Ah, googles tests.

Its the same underlying code - Apple's OS webkit - , so what processor are they using in the tests?

Pittens

Ah, I see. It was a JavaScript demo. Supposedly. Might be faster but that says nothing about page rendering etc.

Mr Bloat

After using various Iphone versions for the last two years and now using Android on a HTC Desire, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Android is at least as good and, in a lot of cases, better than iPhone OS. It is much quicker than the 3GS but then it has more power available to it. Whether it'll be faster than the next gen iPhone remains to be seen.

It's great that there's finally a decent competitor to the iPhone. No market should be dominated by one company, no matter how good the customers of that company think it to be. Android will force Apple to innovate more, which in turn will force Android to be better. It's a win-win for the consumer, us.

Android is still in it's infancy, compared to other OS' so it still needs some catching up but catching up it is. When the iPhone first came out and all the Apple slaters were scoffing at it for not having copy and paste, etc, all the Apple lovers were saying that they should give it time, it's still new but it's getting there. I would say the same to the iPhone users now. Sure, Android has it's failings and there's some areas where it seriously lags behind the iPhone but it isn't going away.

Competition is healthy, folks. A war between Apple and Google will result in lots of cool toys for you and me!

Dades

Pittens wrote: »

I have an ideological reason to not go with Goggle, though. They are entering the mobile market to copper fasten their search monopoly. So will stick with Apple.

Given that Apple are no longer just the funky geeks next door - and in fact are given to kicking down people's doors - I wouldn't choose one over the other on an ideological basis.

Pittens

and in fact are given to kicking down people's doors -

Lol. That was the police looking into a stolen item.

No market should be dominated by one company, no matter how good the customers of that company think it to be.

Well the smart phone market isn't is it? And never was. The OS market on PC's is....

Or do you mean that all other smart phone competitors are out of the market? Or are not smart phones as now defined? Nokia still dominates the market as I can see.

Competition is good alright. However I distrust Google. It is a monopolist ( albeit because of a good project, unlike MS) and it is trying to maintain that monopoly on all devices.

partyatmygaff

Android has been outselling the iPhone in America for a few months now and with all the new features of Android 2.2 compared to what Apple are planning for iPhone OS 4 it's pretty clear which is the better OS. The only problem Android has at the moment is that it doesn't support many video formats (Not that iPhone OS supports any more ).

Another major thing is that Android 2.2 has full Flash support and it works brilliantly. I remember all the Apple fanboys and Steve Jobs were saying how Flash had poor performance and didn't suit mobile devices... How wrong they were

Mr Bloat

Pittens wrote: »

Lol. That was the police looking into a stolen item.

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

Pittens wrote: »

Well the smart phone market isn't is it? And never was. The OS market on PC's is....

Or do you mean that all other smart phone competitors are out of the market? Or are not smart phones as now defined? Nokia still dominates the market as I can see.

Competition is good alright. However I distrust Google. It is a monopolist ( albeit because of a good project, unlike MS) and it is trying to maintain that monopoly on all devices.

The smart phone market, excluding blackberries, was on the verge of being dominated by Apple, lets be realistic. Winmo wasn't even nearly up the scratch and we have no idea if WM7 will make the grade. Nokia were being slated because the N97 was driving people mad. The N900 looks good but it's too clunky for many and too geeky for many more. I work for an IT company which provides IT support to small businesses and I've configured more iPhones for Exchange in the last few months than I've installed new pcs. Since Vodafone picked up the iPhone, loads of business people who previously had high end Nokias or Blackberries were being offered iPhones and every single one of them were loving them for it's simplicity and ease of use.

Mistrust of Google is a good thing, it's a multinational corporation, not your drinking buddy. But so is Apple. I can't understand someone who says "I have an ideological reason to not go with Goggle, though. They are entering the mobile market to copper fasten their search monopoly. So will stick with Apple". Don't you see Apple have just put themselves into that same search/advertising bracket with their latest 'innovations'? Apple are out to make money for their shareholders and board. Anyone who thinks Jobs is making 'cool' gadgets because he loves us is sadly deluded.

PeakOutput

being open source i think gives it major major advantages in the long run. anything iphone comes out with there is no reason there wont be an android phone with the feature on it almost immedietely

apps are the same there is no reason that every app wont be available on android once the customer bases even up and developers see the profit potential

i like alot of things about both companies and dislike alot of things abotu both

im sure all my computers are gong to be apple for the forseeable and unless i need to buy an iphone for development all my phones will probably be android

Pittens

Android has been outselling the iPhone in America for a few months now and with all the new features of Android 2.2 compared to what Apple are planning for iPhone OS 4 it's pretty clear which is the better OS.

For a few months where half of all Androids were given away for free, and Apple did not have a new model out. Also Apple is stymied, in the US, by it's carrier deal with AT&T.

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

I saw a computer company report a theft. Then the police arrested the thief. What exactly did you see? Some biased article in TechCrunch?

Apple are out to make money for their shareholders and board. Anyone who thinks Jobs is making 'cool' gadgets because he loves us is sadly deluded.

Actually that is probably wrong. Apple shareholders should hope that Jobs releases the OS to all vendors. He wont because he doesnt like that kind of user experience - he wont trust the rest of the market to keep up. Jobs is not bottom line driven.

If he was, from 1984, we would all be on Macs.

partyatmygaff

Pittens wrote: »

For a few months where half of all Androids were given away for free, and Apple did not have a new model out. Also Apple is stymied, in the US, by it's carrier deal with AT&T.

Half of all Androids given away for free? Must have missed that. If you're talking about the few hundred given out to developers at developers conferences (Which cost $400 for a ticket) then that hardly counts. For the record Sales =/= "Free" phone giveaways to developers

Actually that is probably wrong. Apple shareholders should hope that Jobs releases the OS to all vendors. He wont because he doesnt like that kind of user experience - he wont trust the rest of the market to keep up. Jobs is not bottom line driven.

If he was, from 1984, we would all be on Macs.

I would imagine Apple make most of their profit off the hardware they sell and not the software. The hardware used in all their products is almost always last generation but they always cover it in gloss and ship it with admittedly good software and make massive profits that way. Apple will never license iPhone OS purely because of the fact they would only lose money.

You're deluding yourself if you think Apple are in for it for anything but making profit, there's nothing wrong with that either. They're a business after all and that is their sole purpose.

axer

I presume those that own the likes of the htc desire can just upgrade android on their phones to keep up with the new features?

Eire Go Brach

I always thought when I bought the iPhone it would be the last phone I ever bought. But now I am not so sure, I can see Android bettering Apple. With Apple only releasing phones ones a year. It goes without saying that it is easier for them to be beaten on hardware. Specially the camera. But Android Just seems to be more customisable and integrates with other/more stuff. Even more so in the future. Apple you will always have to do it there way, but that is what makes them simple to use I suppose.
It is Just the iPod and itunes on the Iphone stopping me from moving to Android right now.
The wifi hotspot looks very neat on the Android. Be very hand for the Ipad.
Are paid Apps available in the Android store yet?

mickoneill30

axer wrote: »

I presume those that own the likes of the htc desire can just upgrade android on their phones to keep up with the new features?

That's the plan. Android 2.2 will be available on the Nexus first and hopefully on the HTC not long after. However there's no guarantee. The Desire is a brand new phone though so I'd imagine 2.2 will be available for that.

With that said though new features are good but 2.1 (for me) is rock solid and fast. I've come from a Nokia N97 so that was totally the opposite.

partyatmygaff

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

I always thought when I bought the iPhone it would be the last phone I ever bought. But now I am not so sure, I can see Android bettering Apple. With Apple only releasing phones ones a year. It goes without saying that it is easier for them to be beaten on hardware. Specially the camera. But Android Just seems to be more customisable and integrates with other/more stuff. Even more so in the future. Apple you will always have to do it there way, but that is what makes them simple to use I suppose.
It is Just the iPod and itunes on the Iphone stopping me from moving to Android right now.
The wifi hotspot looks very neat on the Android. Be very hand for the Ipad.
Are paid Apps available in the Android store yet?

Yes and no. It doesn't give you access to paid apps out of the box but if you root (Somewhat similar to jailbreaking except gives you far far more power over the device) you can easily fool the phone in to thinking you're accessing the market on an American sim and it will give you full access. Failing that all you need is a UK sim and you can buy as many apps as you like.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

That's the plan. Android 2.2 will be available on the Nexus first and hopefully on the HTC not long after. However there's no guarantee. The Desire is a brand new phone though so I'd imagine 2.2 will be available for that.

With that said though new features are good but 2.1 (for me) is rock solid and fast. I've come from a Nokia N97 so that was totally the opposite.

Nexus One and Motorola Droid are getting 2.2 first as they run on Stock Android. HTC have announced that their other phones (Besides the Nexus One) will be getting Android 2.2 (With Sense, HTC's UI for Android) in the coming weeks. Not all HTC phones were confirmed to be getting 2.2. Only those launched in 2010 would be getting it. The only two phones mentioned by name and to be first to receive 2.2 are the HTC Desire and the HTC EVO 4G Supersonic.

2.2 is going to be brilliant speed wise and many new features have been added

The browser speed has been increased by 2-3X for javascript heavy pages thanks to a newer updated engine. General performance has shot way up thanks to far more optimized code and the Dalvik JIT compiler which ups performance by 4.5X. A Nexus One (Or Desire) running 2.1 manages to get around 7.0 MLFOPS but on 2.2 it manages to get 40.98 MFLOPS which is phenomenal really. OpenGL 2.0 ES has been added as well which means a great deal for 3D gaming performance and quality.

As you can imagine... I'm an Android fan

jeromeof

I have an iPhone and an Android phone and overall the iPhone still wins. It is not as clear as it was 6 months ago, some of this is due to the 3GS being year old technology while the latest Android phones have faster CPU's, better screens etc. but in general day to day usage the iPhone still wins. Consistent design, richer Applications, better integration with iTunes (for those who like iTunes).

But it is obvious that Android will win in numbers, more Android Phone manufacturers will ultimately mean more competition (i.e. cut the margins available to Android Manufacturers per phone) which will lead to much cheaper phones for the general public, these manufacturers can partially make up for this cost because they don't need R&D creating new mobile OS, just take what Google give them. Just wait until the Chinese start to really use Android, we could be flooded with very cheap Android phones with similar capabilities. Good news for the general public and Android market share.

In essence this is where we are with the PC industry, for Google read M$. Yet Apple have still been incredible successfully, partially because OSX is very nice OS to use (though obviously Windows7 is very comparable now) but mainly due to how well the Mac hardware works with the OSX. Is see the same with Smartphones and the whole ecosystem around them. So, I see Apple with a smaller market share than Android, but concentrating on cool/reliable combinations of hardware/software. I don't think it will be a 90%-10% split though as there are significant issues with the Android model which will limit the overall appeal over time, in fact M$ may make a comeback with Phone 7 series as that Mobile OS is different/unique.

The main issue I see with Android is the diversification of devices/manufacturers involved, you might think this is a good thing, but it means that companies like HTC have put their own UI (Sense UI) on top of Android (to make them stand out), this means that for each device a non-techie member of the general public will not really get to update their device ever. Techie's will always be able, but basically for each device, you have to wait for HTC or Samsung (or whoever) to produce their own version of the new firmware specific to your device, then you have to hope that your mobile operator O2/Vodafone/Meteor etc. decide that it is ok to send the OTA update for that device. HTC for example, are really just interested in the latest HTC incredible (or whatever new device they might launch month) and are less interested in what their customers already have. The Operators are similarly only really interested in selling you an upgrade, in fact, I imagine that most Operators in Ireland especially, would hate the problems involved in the OTA the latest firmware for some device the sold 6 months ago. So, in essence, unless you are a techie, you buy and android love it for what it can do for you but you may look on with envy when a new android release comes out. The majority of IPhones get updated with the latest features via iTunes which little/no problems, all your App purchases etc. automatically working with your "newly" updated iPhone.

Finally, at the moment, I see latest Android phones (especially some of those coming in America at the moment) as good as the current iPhones (much better in hardware, slightly worse in software), but we are comparing them to year old iPhones. Any Android phone (and its capabilities) have to be compared with what will come out of Apple in a few weeks and I think (though we don't really know) that Apple will jump ahead again significantly in Hardware and slightly better in the software, though obviously Android phones will always be able to do certain things that Apple won't allow, but that is a different arguement.

partyatmygaff

jeromeof wrote: »

The main issue I see with Android is the diversification of devices/manufacturers involved, you might think this is a good thing, but it means that companies like HTC have put their own UI (Sense UI) on top of Android (to make them stand out), this means that for each device a non-techie member of the general public will not really get to update their device ever. Techie's will always be able, but basically for each device, you have to wait for HTC or Samsung (or whoever) to produce their own version of the new firmware specific to your device, then you have to hope that your mobile operator O2/Vodafone/Meteor etc. decide that it is ok to send the OTA update for that device. HTC for example, are really just interested in the latest HTC incredible (or whatever new device they might launch month) and are less interested in what their customers already have. The Operators are similarly only really interested in selling you an upgrade, in fact, I imagine that most Operators in Ireland especially, would hate the problems involved in the OTA the latest firmware for some device the sold 6 months ago. So, in essence, unless you are a techie, you buy and android love it for what it can do for you but you may look on with envy when a new android release comes out. The majority of IPhones get updated with the latest features via iTunes which little/no problems, all your App purchases etc. automatically working with your "newly" updated iPhone.

All of that is past i'm afraid. With Android 2.2 Google are planning to tackle platform fragmentation meaning that the UI and the OS underneath along with other system components are to be updated seperately meaning that after 2.2 there will no longer be a need to wait on your manufacturer to release the update. System updates will be through Google. You're second point about HTC is somewhat right but as it stands the Desire is still their flagship Android phone for Europe. The Incredible and the Supersonic are both CDMA US only phones. They are not only not sold in Ireland but they won't work here either so you can't say that HTC aren't supporting their latest and greatest phones. The Hero is still being supported as well. They are releasing an update for it in June. All of this won't matter anymore after 2.2 anyway.

That and as for you thinking that iPhone OS is better than Android OS i'd personally have to disagree with you. Some people like iPhone OS and some people prefer Android. Personally, I would never buy a phone with an OS so restricted and with last gen hardware and a high price tag to boot.

jeromeof

partyatmygaff wrote: »

All of that is past i'm afraid. With Android 2.2 Google are planning to tackle platform fragmentation meaning that the UI and the OS underneath along with other system components are to be updated seperately meaning that after 2.2 there will no longer be a need to wait on your manufacturer to release the update. System updates will be through Google. You're second point about HTC is somewhat right but as it stands the Desire is still their flagship Android phone for Europe. The Incredible and the Supersonic are both CDMA US only phones. They are not only not sold in Ireland but they won't work here either so you can't say that HTC aren't supporting their latest and greatest phones. The Hero is still being supported as well. They are releasing an update for it in June. All of this won't matter anymore after 2.2 anyway.

That and as for you thinking that iPhone OS is better than Android OS i'd personally have to disagree with you. Some people like iPhone OS and some people prefer Android. Personally, I would never buy a phone with an OS so restricted and with last gen hardware and a high price tag to boot.

The auto-update features released where related to applications auto-updating, not the OS. They didn't address fragmentation at all. I believe the HTC Desire 2.2 update will be available in September, not when you (and me) would like it which is now. For the future all Google "promised" was they might make it easier for manufacturer to package their "custom" UI with future versions of Android, that doesn't address any of the concerns I have (only makes the time to wait for "techies" to do their updates much less).

As for the iPhone versus Android UI, I completely agree it is a personally thing.

But for your last comment of "OS being restricted" I presume you rooted your Android already? If so you did this to get around restrictions just like people jailbreak their iPhones to get around Apple restrictions. Though I won't argue that Apple have completely unreasonable rules for developers submitting applications, but that would be more correctly stated as "applications being restricted".

partyatmygaff

jeromeof wrote: »

The auto-update features released where related to applications auto-updating, not the OS. They didn't address fragmentation at all. I believe the HTC Desire 2.2 update will be available in September, not when you (and me) would like it which is now. For the future all Google "promised" was they might make it easier for manufacturer to package their "custom" UI with future versions of Android, that doesn't address any of the concerns I have (only makes the time to wait for "techies" to do their updates much less).

System components ARE going to be as independent as possible following 2.2 they are still working on upgrading the main OS independent of UI but it will come eventually. A case in point is Flash 10.1 which needs to be installed via the market and doesn't come packaged with the 2.2 rom. I assume other parts of the system will follow suit.

As for the iPhone versus Android UI, I completely agree it is a personally thing.

But for your last comment of "OS being restricted" I presume you rooted your Android already? If so you did this to get around restrictions just like people jailbreak their iPhones to get around Apple restrictions. Though I won't argue that Apple have completely unreasonable rules for developers submitting applications, but that would be more correctly stated as "applications being restricted".

Yes i've rooted it but that's mainly to access a few more lower level things so I can install Debian and stuff like that Hardly what you'd call typical use of a phone

Out of the box the entire phone is customizable, every single app on the phone can be replaced. I can replace my SMS app, my email app, my dialer, my contacts app and I can even replace the launcher and lockscreen if I so desire (Lame, I know... :pac:)

Far more customizable than iPhone OS and far less restricted!

jeromeof

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Is that not an argument similar to one against the iPhone? Dont Apple release a new phone every year. They don't want to update your phone. They want you buy a new one.
Or are you able to update the iPhone 2 to have features similar to an iPhone 3? Do Apple still bring out updates for the iPhone 1 & 2? I'm not being smart there. I really don't know.

I would agree as far as the hardware is concerned but not the software or your "investment" in their eco-system. Original iPhones got updates for the past 3 years (though not anymore) and any user buying a new iPhone almost immediately gets to restore all their apps/music/settings. This type of experience is lacking on Android, though at least Google has started to address this by allowing app developers the ability to save/restore settings to faciliate this between phone upgrades, but it shouldn't really be up to the developer.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

As for their hardware the iPhone is normally a bit behind other models. I'm not criticising here. The iPhone 4 will have a flash and multitasking a few years behind a lot of other models. Thats absolutely fine. The iPhone experience is to be simple and solid for the user. That's what 90% of phone users want.

Not really, you are forgetting the 3GS is a year old. It was the fastest phone on the market when it came out. It is only since just before christmas that Google/HTC have better hardware than the 3GS (excusing the camera resolution etc). In some very limited cases now, it may still be better, for example, the quality of the touch screen. The original iPhone (even though it was only 2G) was literally years ahead of its time. The new iPhone may be faster (as the iPad looks very fast) have a better screen (rumour is double the resolution so 960x640), front-facing camera etc. but it is all speculation until it gets launched. And I have no doubt that Tegra2 processor Android phones with incredible resolutions will come out later in the year to make whatever Apple produce look slow.

partyatmygaff

jeromeof wrote: »

I would agree as far as the hardware is concerned but not the software or your "investment" in their eco-system. Original iPhones got updates for the past 3 years (though not anymore) and any user buying a new iPhone almost immediately gets to restore all their apps/music/settings. This type of experience is lacking on Android, though at least Google has started to address this by allowing app developers the ability to save/restore settings to faciliate this between phone upgrades, but it shouldn't really be up to the developer.

There are many backup programs available on the Market that can do just that without needing to even use a computer. Google are addressing fragmentation but even at that exactly how many features of let's say iPhone OS 3 were usable on the iPhone 2G?

Not really, you are forgetting the 3GS is a year old. It was the fastest phone on the market when it came out. It is only since just before christmas that Google/HTC have better hardware than the 3GS (excusing the camera resolution etc). In some very limited cases now, it may still be better, for example, the quality of the touch screen. The original iPhone (even though it was only 2G) was literally years ahead of its time. The new iPhone may be faster (as the iPad looks very fast) have a better screen (rumour is double the resolution so 960x640), front-facing camera etc. but it is all speculation until it gets launched. And I have no doubt that Tegra2 processor Android phones with incredible resolutions will come out later in the year to make whatever Apple produce look slow.

The Toshiba TG01 released two weeks after the 3GS was the fastest phone on the market at the time, first phone to use the 1GHz Snapdragon chip if i'm not mistaken. Hardware wise the iPhone 3Gs simply wasn't what you would expect on a phone that sold for often near €800 at launch sim free. 3.2MP camera did it no favours either. The iPhone 2G was quite revolutionary software wise but it's hardware spec was disappointing considering its price. A supposed Smartphone that doesn't even have 3G? My Motorola E770V from 2005 had 3G. A 2MP camera on a high end phone in 2007? My N95 8GB had a 5MP camera with 30FPS video recording in 2007. No GPS either. No, the success of the iPhone lies 100% with iPhone OS and now 2-3 years later it's finally met it's match.

jeromeof

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There are many backup programs available on the Market that can do just that without needing to even use a computer. Google are addressing fragmentation but even at that exactly how many features of let's say iPhone OS 3 were usable on the iPhone 2G?

Almost every app and feature from iPhone OS3 works with the original iPhone. It has the same CPU/screen resolution as the 3G, it just lacked the 3G and GPS support.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The Toshiba TG01 released two weeks after the 3GS was the fastest phone on the market at the time, first phone to use the 1GHz Snapdragon chip if i'm not mistaken. Hardware wise the iPhone 3Gs simply wasn't what you would expect on a phone that sold for often near €800 at launch sim free. 3.2MP camera did it no favours either. The iPhone 2G was quite revolutionary software wise but it's hardware spec was disappointing considering its price. A supposed Smartphone that doesn't even have 3G? My Motorola E770V from 2005 had 3G. A 2MP camera on a high end phone in 2007? My N95 8GB had a 5MP camera with 30FPS video recording in 2007. No GPS either. No, the success of the iPhone lies 100% with iPhone OS and now 2-3 years later it's finally met it's match.

Sorry why are you mentioning a crap phone that was released after the 3GS as being the fastest at the time of 3GS launch? Considering this was a Windows mobile 6 phone, I imagine it was much slower than any iPhone or Android phone to actually use.

I won't bother to get involved in your other arguments as they are the typically ones I heard at the time of the original iPhone launch. E.g. why buy that with my N95 does everything! But I will agree the OS had significant amount to do with it + capacitive touch screen + fast (at the time) CPU + iPod ecosystem. And I would agree that Android is a fantastic OS (as I said I actually have both an iPhone and an Android phone), but from extended use of both it lacks the polish of the iPhone OS but is getting closer with each release, but that just my opinion.

partyatmygaff

jeromeof wrote: »

Almost every app and feature from iPhone OS3 works with the original iPhone. It has the same CPU/screen resolution as the 3G, it just lacked the 3G and GPS support.

I wasn't talking about Apps, what features did iPhone OS3 actually bring to the iPhone 2G?

Sorry why are you mentioning a crap phone that was released after the 3GS as being the fastest at the time of 3GS launch? Considering this was a Windows mobile 6 phone, I imagine it was much slower than any iPhone or Android phone to actually use.

We weren't talking about that, we were talking about raw hardware power rather than the OS. Software wise Windows Mobile is rubbish, Hardware Wise the TG01 is better than the iPhone.

I won't bother to get involved in your other arguments as they are the typically ones I heard at the time of the original iPhone launch. E.g. why buy that with my N95 does everything! But I will agree the OS had significant amount to do with it + capacitive touch screen + fast (at the time) CPU + iPod ecosystem. And I would agree that Android is a fantastic OS (as I said I actually have both an iPhone and an Android phone), but from extended use of both it lacks the polish of the iPhone OS but is getting closer with each release, but that just my opinion.

It was all very slick and fancy but it lacked so much basic functionality and had such a poor hardware spec that the iPhone 2G really was no match for the overall brilliance of the N95. Of course it improved greatly with the 3Gs but even at that it was bested even before launch hardware wise and now with Android it has finally gotten itself a serious competitor hardware and software wise. If the iPhone loses market share and ends up like Mac OS on computers which does look quite likely at the moment by the way things are going and how fast Android seems to be growing.

Pittens

It was all very slick and fancy but it lacked so much basic functionality and had such a poor hardware spec that the iPhone 2G really was no match for the overall brilliance of the N95

Lol. So for Apple's phones the hardware, not the software counts, for Android phones it's the opposite. Its the software like 2.2. Which is much faster ( indicating that the JIT in 2,1 is ten types of sh*te).

Android phones are effectively iPhone clones. If they have multi-touch that is what they are.

So you really wanted an iPhone like product, but not anything from Apple. Typical hateboyzism. If google had never come out with Android, and Apple still had it's app hegemony you would still be on Nokia, pretending you didnt like touch screens at all, that those kind of things were toys.

If the iPhone loses market share and ends up like Mac OS on computers which does look quite likely at the moment by the way things are going and how fast Android seems to be growing.

Um, the iPhone is not losing market share. It has stalled in the last 3 months in US where it is on one carrier. In the rest of the world it increased it's share dramatically. Were it on 4 carriers in the US would be about 50% of the market ( these are the pent-up demand figures). That said they need to get their finger out and get of AT&T as fast as possible since people will have a software buy-in on Android.

The Android sold so well in the last 3 months because it was given away as a free offer, a two for one deal. Most people who buy like that are not really that interested in the OS, and dont buy much in the way of applications. Anecdotally I dont know anybody who has made any money from Android apps. In general the iPhone is still making the independents rich but there is nothing from the Android side.

Of course the installed base of Android phones is still tiny. however I think the nature of the kind of people who like Android - "rooting" geeks who pay for nothing, and people who get a two for one deal - like the one from Verizon I mentioned, may not be in the market for paying for stuff just a hunch.


Apple should move to Verizon. They could have afforded to keep the exclusive deal with AT&T (which lasts apparantlly until 2012) were there no competition from Android, now - however - they can't. I think they will buy them out. AT&T can then sell Androids. All even stephens. In the rest of the world Apple grew 100% last quarter.

The MAC OS analogy is nonsense, it assumes that all OSes tend towards monopoly providers. That is only the case on the PC, not anywhere else - not gaming platforms for instance. Not phones up til now - prior to Apple - and in the future. And, in any case, Apple is in the position of MS in 1990. More software bought, more people locked in. A larger developer community. ( Geeks aren't locked in because they dont pay for anything but normal people were).

And the iPhone OS - in total - is on the iPod touch, the iPad ( which is selling as many units as the 3GS in the US right now!), and the iPhone. Thats the market for developers. Although iPod sales are slowing somewhat year on year, people are upgrading from classic to touch so the iPhone OS community gets larger.That eco-system, in it's entirety - all of it can be written with one universal binary ( particularly useful for games). Thats increasing exponentially.

And of course, besides the Verizon 2-1 deal for Android phones, the last quarter saw no new hardware from Apple. In the next quarter, and the next year, they will release the pent up demand. I have a !st gen myself, as - although I am a fan - I dont buy upgrades to electronic equipment every year. People like me will buy the 4G in our masses and that quarter will see Apple accelerate past Android again particularly if they move to Verizon.

HateBoyz will say thats one quarter only, the exact opposite of the argument made this quarter.

axer

Pittens wrote: »

So you really wanted an iPhone like product, but not anything from Apple. Typical hateboyzism.

Yes, that is what I want. I want a iphone type smart phone without the restrictive nature of iphones. Ideally I want it with a keypad but because it restricts the smart phone so much (size and otherwise) I have to settle for a touch keypad. If an Android phone was not out and Nokia didnt come out with a good option then I would have to accept the restrictive nature of the iPhone and buy one. Why is that "hateboyzism"?

I currently have an N95, excellent phone. Only problem I have had with it is that it is fairly slow but it has everything I need/want.The only reason I am gonna replace it is that it is battered to bits and is about to fall apart.

I have decided that my next phone will be the HTC Desire due to Android being a much more flexible os than the iPhone's.

PeakOutput

Pittens wrote: »

Apple accelerate past Android again particularly if they move to Verizon.

you make alot of good points, alot of crap ones too but thats fine

there is nothing, however, to suggest that at+t are going to lose their exclusivity before 2012 and im trying to ifnd the link now but some commentators are saying that they are giving such good ipad 3g deals that for them to do that they may have been promised at least 2012 with the iphone if not more but thats really just individuals opinion.

also has it been confirmed that the new iphone will actually be a 4g phone?

PeakOutput

axer wrote: »

Ideally I want it with a keypad

apparently the next wave of android phones are going to conecentrate on qwerty keypads along with the touchpads so you might be in luck

jd83

I hate all this bull**** about fanboy or hateboyism. I have owned an iphone, i now own an android phone. In my opinion android phone is better purely based on me using both phones on a day to day basis. If the new iphone comes out and it offers me better features than I enjoy with android I will consider getting an iphone when ever i lose\drop\sell my current phone.

Pittens

Well I dont know what 4G means actually, its a marketing term. Do you mean like the one that was on Gizmodo?

Probably.

Pittens

I hate all this bull**** about fanboy or hateboyism. I have owned an iphone, i now own an android phone.

just to make this clear: am not talking about people like you but the kind of folks who hated touch screens and loved their Nokias ( or whatever) when the iPhone came out, or dismissed it as a toy, and are now on Android.

Anyway I use the term hateboyz in response to the term fanboys which has been used in this thread. If we all agree to use neither, then good.

PeakOutput

Pittens wrote: »

Well I dont know what 4G means actually, its a marketing term. Do you mean like the one that was on Gizmodo?

Probably.

4g is the network it runs on its the next step up from 3g and can run at apparently up to 10mbs which is faster then most of our broadband services here in ireland

when that model was leaked it was just tagged the 4g as iphones previous model was the 3g but there was no talk that i saw of it actually being able to use a 4g network

this matters little for us here as we dont have a 4g network BUT htc either just did or is just about to release the first 4g phone in america and it uses android, so im wondering will the new iphone compete with the htc evo 4g in that regard

Tom Dunne

I presume 4G in this context refers to the 4th Generation iPhone, as opposed to an iPhone that can run on the 4th Generation Mobile phone network (which doesn't really exist in most places).

Anyway, when discussing Anrdoid vs. iPhone OS, you have to ask yourself one question - do you want a polished, consumer and non-techie friendly experience, or do you want a slightly rough-around-the-edges-but-if-I-just-twiddle-this-it-will-work experience?

Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. Yes, there are features missing in the iPhone OS, yes, hardware is lacking, but it's the same old story when it comes to technology - companies will continually leapfrog each other, with each bringing out better phones every 6 months - year.

We could be having the opposite discussion in six months time.

axer

I think because of the nature of Android being able to run on phones from different manufacturers Apple is going to find it hard to leapfrog past what will probably be a constant stream of new hardware emerging for the android.

All this will be great for the consumer though.

PeakOutput

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Anyway, when discussing Anrdoid vs. iPhone OS, you have to ask yourself one question - do you want a polished, consumer and non-techie friendly experience, or do you want a slightly rough-around-the-edges-but-if-I-just-twiddle-this-it-will-work experience?

besides there being more apps on the iphone i dont see how android is rough around the edges. if you want to tweek with android you can if your not that way inclined you have a perfectly fine os to run your stuff on perfectly.

however again i think if it is in someway rough around the edges because its open source these problems will be ironed out faster

Android is still not as polished as iPhone OS. Yes, there are features missing in the iPhone OS, yes, hardware is lacking, but it's the same old story when it comes to technology - companies will continually leapfrog each other, with each bringing out better phones every 6 months - year.

We could be having the opposite discussion in six months time.

thats true, sure we will probably be having the 'is this the nail in the coffin for android' conversation in a few months when the new iphone comes out

jeromeof

PeakOutput wrote: »

4g is the network it runs on its the next step up from 3g and can run at apparently up to 10mbs which is faster then most of our broadband services here in ireland

when that model was leaked it was just tagged the 4g as iphones previous model was the 3g but there was no talk that i saw of it actually being able to use a 4g network

this matters little for us here as we dont have a 4g network BUT htc either just did or is just about to release the first 4g phone in america and it uses android, so im wondering will the new iphone compete with the htc evo 4g in that regard

In iPhone terms 4G means 4th generation phone, in network operator speak they officially don't use the term 4G, after 3G there is LTE (which the operators here will go to) and WiMax which Imagine are rolling out in Ireland (and clearwire in the states). Marketing people sometimes call either technology 4G and in the States there is a very nice HTC phone which supports WiMax (and is being marketed as a 4G Phone). Most reports I have read suggest that the WiMax doesn't really work well for phones (hence why Imagine are launching it as a Mobile broadband alternative here), it isn't any faster than existing 3G (assuming you have a good 3G connection). Sprint, the network who are supporting WiMax in the States (and are launching the 4G HTC phone) have already stated they are moving to LTE. Ultimately, LTE will win out for phones and when it does it may be ultimately called 4G.

No iPhone or Android phone currently supports LTE and won't until the operators roll out this network, so in a few years we will all be upgrading our phones anyway, to the iPhone 5G/6G or Android 3.0/4.0.