Couple of gripes about the Desire

mkennedy

I'm increasingly of the view that the Desire/Android in general is geared toward multimedia rather than being an office/business tool.

I love so much about this device but some things are driving me nuts:

[Rant]
Text entry: that touch keyboard is quite hit-and-miss (even after calibration)- there, i said it. :P

Text selection, copy and paste:
OK you can select, copy and paste text from something like a web page, fair enough.

But after entering a block of text (in a forum post, email or search box say), it's almost impossible to do a big edit quickly.
Say if you want to take out a chunk of text in the middle:
You have to first place the cursor with the track ball (a bit of a chore because it's kinda hit and miss) and then the text selection tool doesn't allow you to selectively cut or copy the stuff (only offering "select all", "cut all" or "copy all" etc).

With a stylus (yes i know...it's unfashionable but i miss it so much ) you could edit text in a matter of a second and could always edit text selectively (be it an email, forum post whatever).
Never owned a non-stylus device before so i really trusted that stuff like this wouldn't be a problem.

Saving files:
I used to be able to make hundreds of notes (copied from stuff like webpages) and file them away easily in an organised folder structure.
I haven't seen a proper note taking app to allow me do this for example.
Note Everything is meant to be the best note-taking app out there, but it kinda feels like a toy tbh. It has an export to SD card function but again, it's that overall impression of not knowing where each file and folder are filed.

But i get this impression generally with saving files/downloading stuff from the net on this OS- there's often no indication of what folder the file is going into.

File Explorer:
No file explorer out of the box.

OK there's Astro- (fair enough it allows apps to be backed up to apk's so it's not all bad), but again it feels a small bit like a toy.
Why doesn't it recognise the individual folders created by a program like Note Everything above for example, as opposed to just seeing them as a pile of notes in one folder?

Don't get me wrong, i love everything else about this device- that why this particular stuff is pissing me off so much.
It would be the perfect device if i could sort it

I love the screen (pdfs are a dream to read on it).
I love the widgets.
I love the UI
I love the apps- copilot, rss readers, music app, gmail etc etc.
I love the browser- how it reformats text when you zoom in and out.

But the nitty gritty stuff like entering/editing text painlessly and quickly, control over where files are saved and in what folders, i'm not that convinced.
[/Rant]

I'd like to hear how others are getting on with this stuff.

Atomic Pineapple

Keyboard - there's always the option of swype

Stylus - wont work on a capacitive touch screen

Cut/Copy/Paste - I find it pretty handy for a mobile device although I've been using Android devices for a year now so maybe I'm just used to it.

Saving files and file exploration should mature as the OS grows, some people don't realise how young Android is, its only 18months old since release and Google are only now starting to target business user's.

Oafley Jones

draffodx wrote: »

Stylus - wont work on a capacitive touch screen

There's a few capacitive styli around, HTC even have one.

Abelloid

One more for Swype - fantastic keyboard app, and does have some cursor control AFAIK, but I've not needed it yet.

EStrongs is a really good file explorer and can even access your PC via wifi or web (haven't tried the latter yet).

mkennedy

Oafley Jones wrote: »

There's a few capacitive styli around, HTC even have one.

Yeah i heard about those.
Might get one- nowhere to put it though.
Better keep this post short in case i decide to edit the middle line . : p

conor.hogan.2

A stylus - what decade are you in?

Inquitus

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

A stylus - what decade are you in?

mkennedy

JustinOval wrote: »

One more for Swype - fantastic keyboard app, and does have some cursor control AFAIK, but I've not needed it yet.

EStrongs is a really good file explorer and can even access your PC via wifi or web (haven't tried the latter yet).

Ive gone thru estrong, astro and andexplorer.
None seem to be picking up the individual folders created by the note everything app mentioned above.

I'll look at Swype, thanks.
Any crappy spelling above can be blamed on the keyboard.

Abelloid

Yeah, just had a quick look - I can't find where Note Everything stores files either...

mkennedy

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

A stylus - what decade are you in?

I knew i shouldn't have mentioned the S word.
HTC have up until recently included styli in their WM phones (when nobody knew who HTC were).

Yes, (as i mentioned in my post) styli are unfashionable.
But given that the text entry issue isn't exactly solved on these new devices (see example below), it might be worth consideration (the capacitative one mentioned might be an option for example).

Take this example:
You're about to post a 15 line post to a forum like Boards.
Then you decide to remove lines 5 to 10 (the middle lines of the post).
With non-stylus input you have no option to cut these lines selectively from the post (it's "cut all" or nothing).
So you're forced to remove the 5 lines with the backspace key.

That's just one example.
As i say, when you get down to heavy text input/editing, things don't seem so great.
Don't mean to be provocative but text entry/editing is far from solved tbh IMO.

conor.hogan.2

1 - windows mobile (this begs the same question, what decade?)

2 - floppy disks are still sold so yeah.

3 - yes they are unfashionable but the fact is that it is a stylus - fashion is not the problem.

eh you can tap into a particular part of text and edit from there - no?

mkennedy

3 - yes they are unfashionable but the fact is that it is a stylus - fashion is not the problem.

Yes it is largely incidental and secondary to functionality (for me at least) but I inferred from your post that unfashionability was problematic for you.
My reference to stylis' relative unfashionability was really just a (polite) concession to your post tbh.

But back to the main point- their functionality and, more broadly, optimization/perfection of text input in general and the merits of various forms of text input.
I maintain text input is far from perfect on these new devices (i think my example above is fair evidence of this).

eh you can tap into a particular part of text and edit from there - no?

Of course but removing 5 lines with the backspace key (which you are forced to do) isn't ideal.

conor.hogan.2

yes they are ''unfashionable'' in the same way a brick phone is now..
but thats cos we are in 2010 not the 90's.

you can tap into a specific area - you dont have to delete all or nothing.

mkennedy

yes they are ''unfashionable'' in the same way a brick phone is now..
but thats cos we are in 2010 not the 90's.

Late 00's- but again i'm not concerned with this.
Or even styli in particular.

I'm more concerned about the functionality of the various forms of text input.
Included in this musing is the functionality of styli compared to the newer methods of text input- this is what this thread is about.

And i'm not convinced the new forms of text input are optimal:

Again i'll explain this here:

you can tap into a specific area - you dont have to delete all or nothing.

I know this.
That IS the whole point, ^ that method is the cumbersome, time consuming method i'm talking about- the "backspacing thru' 5 lines of text" that i referred to above.

And it's the only choice you have.

Because the "text selection" option in the menu in this circumstance IS "cut all" or nothing.

cormie

Have to agree on the texting issue, I don't think it's desire specific though, I think it's just touchscreen specific. It's just not possible to text without looking at the phone itself. I've just come from a SE G900 and you could quite easily text, as you could with almost any "physical" num pad, while ehem, driving and still have your eyes on the road and once you come to traffic lights you can review the text before you send it and you'll have made little or no mistakes. You could also text with the phone in a jacket pocket. This is just not possible on touchscreen, in fact, I was trying to send a text while in the supermarket recently and where I'd usually be able to walk from aisle to aisle while texting, I couldn't, I had to stop and stand in the same spot to finish the text, it just wasn't happening otherwise.

I was even thinking it'd be good to have some kind of rubber/silicone strap you could buy that will wrap around the bottom half of the screen and be able to be used in conjunction with a traditional numpad app to write texts. The strap would have physical numberpad buttons so you can tell where you finger is just by feel and happily text away in the traditional sense. It would of course come on an off in a second and the app would disable multi touch and just let you text as if you had physical buttons. Just a thought anyway

mkennedy

cormie wrote: »

Have to agree on the texting issue, I don't think it's desire specific though, I think it's just touchscreen specific. It's just not possible to text without looking at the phone itself. I've just come from a SE G900 and you could quite easily text, as you could with almost any "physical" num pad, while ehem, driving and still have your eyes on the road and once you come to traffic lights you can review the text before you send it and you'll have made little or no mistakes. You could also text with the phone in a jacket pocket. This is just not possible on touchscreen, in fact, I was trying to send a text while in the supermarket recently and where I'd usually be able to walk from aisle to aisle while texting, I couldn't, I had to stop and stand in the same spot to finish the text, it just wasn't happening otherwise.

The thing is (for me at least), it's not just about the "hit-and-missability" of soft keyboards (there's always a chance of perfecting them/becoming more adept i guess). I think the inability to rapidly edit/manipulate/do whatever you want with the text is the real killer- it just feels restrictive.

justsomebloke

my only thing against using a stylus is that where the hell would you put it without losing it?

cormie

mkennedy wrote: »

The thing is (for me at least), it's not just about the "hit-and-missability" of soft keyboards (there's always a chance of perfecting them/becoming more adept i guess). I think the inability to rapidly edit/manipulate/do whatever you want with the text is the real killer- it just feels restrictive.

I'm not sure what problem you're having. I didn't really understand it from above. But editing seems ok to me? Say if you want to select a bit of text, just get the cursor to the beginning using the optical pad long press the screen, click select text, then move the optical pad the direction of the text you want to select, when the text you want is highlighted, press in the optical pad and you can cut/copy and then move the cursor to where you want to paste the text and long press the screen and click paste.

What is it you need to do that's proving difficult?

Abelloid

mickoneill30

cormie wrote: »

Say if you want to select a bit of text, just get the cursor to the beginning using the optical pad long press the screen, click select text, ....

That's cool. I didn't know you could do that.

Professey Chin

JustinOval wrote: »

Mmmmmmmmm i love swype

28064212

mkennedy wrote: »

But after entering a block of text (in a forum post, email or search box say), it's almost impossible to do a big edit quickly.
Say if you want to take out a chunk of text in the middle:
You have to first place the cursor with the track ball (a bit of a chore because it's kinda hit and miss) and then the text selection tool doesn't allow you to selectively cut or copy the stuff (only offering "select all", "cut all" or "copy all" etc).

cormie wrote: »

I'm not sure what problem you're having. I didn't really understand it from above. But editing seems ok to me? Say if you want to select a bit of text, just get the cursor to the beginning using the optical pad long press the screen, click select text, then move the optical pad the direction of the text you want to select, when the text you want is highlighted, press in the optical pad and you can cut/copy and then move the cursor to where you want to paste the text and long press the screen and click paste.

What is it you need to do that's proving difficult?

What cormie said. Ok, it may not be the most intuitive thing in the world to hit 'Select Text' first, but it's not exactly a labyrinth of options. There may be simpler ways, but not by much (although I do like Swype's method)

mkennedy wrote: »

Saving files:
I used to be able to make hundreds of notes (copied from stuff like webpages) and file them away easily in an organised folder structure.
I haven't seen a proper note taking app to allow me do this for example.
Note Everything is meant to be the best note-taking app out there, but it kinda feels like a toy tbh. It has an export to SD card function but again, it's that overall impression of not knowing where each file and folder are filed.

That's specifically an app problem. Note Everything actually stores the data in the internals of the app, not on the SD card. It allows you to create a folder structure for your notes in the app, but when you export, it doesn't export that structure, which isn't great. Tbh, the export function in Note Everything could do with improvement, it doesn't export the folders and it just names all the files as text1, text2...

However, the export function is really just for back-ups. Note Everything allows you to create a pretty complex folder structure of various types of notes for use inside their app. Not sure where the 'toy' feeling comes from, but just swap it for a different app if you don't like it (Evernote is supposed to be good). The files and folders being stored in the app is a little outside the norm, but has advantages as well.

mkennedy wrote: »

But i get this impression generally with saving files/downloading stuff from the net on this OS- there's often no indication of what folder the file is going into.

Stock Browser puts it in /sdcard/downloads. Other browsers either do the same or make it customisable. Not sure where the confusion arises, pretty much the same as a desktop.

mkennedy wrote: »

File Explorer:
No file explorer out of the box.

Meh, not a big deal. People that actually want to get at their files can get their own app, lots of people just don't care about the internals.

mkennedy wrote: »

OK there's Astro- (fair enough it allows apps to be backed up to apk's so it's not all bad), but again it feels a small bit like a toy.
Why doesn't it recognise the individual folders created by a program like Note Everything above for example, as opposed to just seeing them as a pile of notes in one folder?

As above, that's a problem with Note Everything, not with Astro. Again, don't know where the 'toy' feeling is coming from. Is it a UI issue? Switch to EStrong or AndExplorer or any of a dozen others.

I think Google have merged the two approaches to file management quite well. On the one hand, there are people who don't care about the internal structure, they just want everything available everywhere. On the other, you have people like you and me who want complete transparency and control over their file structure. Both are very easy to do in Android

mkennedy

cormie wrote: »

I'm not sure what problem you're having. I didn't really understand it from above. But editing seems ok to me? Say if you want to select a bit of text, just get the cursor to the beginning using the optical pad long press the screen, click select text, then move the optical pad the direction of the text you want to select, when the text you want is highlighted, press in the optical pad and you can cut/copy and then move the cursor to where you want to paste the text and long press the screen and click paste.

What is it you need to do that's proving difficult?

Cheers, i didn't see that in the manual.
Inside of text boxes seems to be a bit different to the general method.
I obviously take back what i said so- sorry
(i still think it's a bit roundabout with all the menus just to select and copy).

mkennedy

What cormie said. Ok, it may not be the most intuitive thing in the world to hit 'Select Text' first, but it's not exactly a labyrinth of options. There may be simpler ways, but not by much (although I do like Swype's method)

Yeah i see that now- text selection and copy in a text box seems to be different to the general method of text selection and copy.

That's specifically an app problem. Note Everything actually stores the data in the internals of the app, not on the SD card. It allows you to create a folder structure for your notes in the app, but when you export, it doesn't export that structure, which isn't great. Tbh, the export function in Note Everything could do with improvement, it doesn't export the folders and it just names all the files as text1, text2...

Yeah Note Everything is actually more at fault here.
I've tried numerous note apps and i can't get one where the folder structure is retained on the sd card.
I actually thought textedit (think that's what it was) was the the answer to my prayers but it kept force closing.
If anyone knows one that'd be great.

However, the export function is really just for back-ups. Note Everything allows you to create a pretty complex folder structure of various types of notes for use inside their app.

So if you've backed them up and say did a hard reset, if you were to import them again would the app import them into the same folders or would you have to set them up again?

(Evernote is supposed to be good).

I'll take a look, thanks.

The files and folders being stored in the app is a little outside the norm, but has advantages as well.

This is what i don't like- i like to have everything on my SD card (in folders).

Stock Browser puts it in /sdcard/downloads. Other browsers either do the same or make it customisable. Not sure where the confusion arises, pretty much the same as a desktop.

Yeah i know- it just doesn't say this when it downloads.
I downloaded a PDF yesterday and it didn't say it (or give me the option of changing the destination of the download).
Do you know how to change the folder where a download goes at the point of download?

On the other, you have people like you and me who want complete transparency and control over their file structure. Both are very easy to do in Android

Yeah this is what i care about- i like to know exactly where everything is and have total control over the device.
Hopefully it's just a matter of finding apps to do this- i was a bit hasty in some of my judgements admittedly.

partyatmygaff

mkennedy wrote: »

Yeah this is what i care about- i like to know exactly where everything is and have total control over the device.
Hopefully it's just a matter of finding apps to do this- i was a bit hasty in some of my judgements admittedly.

Be grateful you don't have an iPhone.

cormie

Glad that sorted it for you

Not sure what you mean the general method of text selection and copy? Where is the general method?

mkennedy

cormie wrote: »

Not sure what you mean the general method of text selection and copy? Where is the general method?

Selecting text on a web page say (outside of a text box).
There you select text selection in the menu before you tap the screen and edit text from there (with the clipboard icon etc).
(That's the method described in the manual).

cormie

Seems on webpages again you can just press and hold any text, drag a little and let go and the text selector pops up automatically and you just drag over the text you want.

But you're never going to be able to cut/paste/delete text from webpage anyway so I can't see how it can be an issue?

Best bet is to not bother with the manual and just mess around yourself

cormie

Gripe: Is there any way to stop the messages auto converting to MMS once you've written more than 5 parts? Sure, for those on prepay etc, it probably works out cheaper to send an MMS, but when you've included texts but MMS costs extra, then this isn't a good thing! Also, don't people have to set their phones up for MMS? So there's a good chance the recipient won't have it set up to receive them?

Brian

Cormie, re your text entry while driving... try the speech recognition

28064212

cormie wrote: »

Gripe: Is there any way to stop the messages auto converting to MMS once you've written more than 5 parts? Sure, for those on prepay etc, it probably works out cheaper to send an MMS, but when you've included texts but MMS costs extra, then this isn't a good thing! Also, don't people have to set their phones up for MMS? So there's a good chance the recipient won't have it set up to receive them?

Are you using the stock Messaging app or something else? There is a limit that networks can set to the number of messages that can be strung together. Also, if you're up to 5, wouldn't you just be better off sending an email?