Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

Hermy

poochiem wrote: »

...he could be an Archbishop with that kind of thinking

You got it in one.

Hermy

TinyExplosions wrote: »

A convenient place to get a blood transfusion too....

You're funny.:D

aidanbike

abusus non tollit usum Long live cycling, dope free (motorised or otherwise :-) )
Just because of cyclings history it can move forward,
Clean Pro cyclists should set up a body and lobby for lifetime bans and much more severe measures for cheaters and be a unified voice. Instead of leaving the uci to steer the ship.

Chips Lovell

Anyone listen to the Newstalk thing? I couldn't get their online player to work and was nowhere near a radio. This has me intrigued.

Hermy

el tonto wrote: »

Anyone listen to the Newstalk thing? I couldn't get their online player to work and was nowhere near a radio. This has me intrigued.

Didn't sound to me like any sort of breakdown.

Deisetrek

el tonto wrote: »

Anyone listen to the Newstalk thing? I couldn't get their online player to work and was nowhere near a radio. This has me intrigued.

yeah just heard the interview , don't know about the " breakdown " stuff but I thought he went a bit far by revealing that he had information that Floyd Landis had tried to bribe the organisers of the Tour Of California that unless they allowed him to enter he would reveal a huge story ...which he's just done . Thought overall he spoke well though , would have liked to have seen what kind of spat would have developed between Kimmage and Mc Quaid if they'd agreed to be on at the same time . Looks like Mc Quaid would have only been agreeable to the interview if the interviewer had finished with Kimmage who had been on just before him .

irishmotorist

Pat was just doing his usual "But we CAUGHT Landis - the UCI are doing great". The interesting piece (IMO) was when they asked him about the donation that Lance gave the UCI. This is my paraphrasing and might be slightly off...
PMcQ: It was $100k and we bought (sorry for poor details) machine for helping with drug tests that cost about $88k.
Newstalk: What happened the other $12k
PMcQ: What's $12k change in the scheme of things
Newstalk: Ermmm....riiightOK

ROK ON

The doping allegations are actually not that important per se. There have always been these allegations.

The juice is the alleged bribe by LA and JB of the UCI president. LA earned a lot of money on an insurance contract if he won 5touts. If that was done while cheating then he commited federal fraud in the USA. I am presuming that bribery is also a fraud in law in Switzerland.

If these allegations can be proven LA will more than likely do time as would JB. Doping is small beer compared to the alleged fraud.
I simply can't see how this can be ignored by the feds in the US.

Hermy

irishmotorist wrote: »

PMcQ: What's $12k change in the scheme of things

Deisetrek wrote: »

...Floyd Landis had tried to bribe the organisers of the Tour Of California...

Pot Kettle

Junior

I only got to reply to this thread when I was in the office this morning, I've been on the road all day.

Fair play to Landis for finally getting this out, however he's done everything wrong up till now which does nothing to enhance his story. I think he's tried everything (and it seems now to include blackmail) to get back to doing the thing he loves the most - cycling. However now it seems as if he can't get back into cycling he's going to make sure none of the protagonists can't cycle either.

I really do think this is the end of the road for him, I reckon he's one step away from a mental breakdown, I just wish he had handed over the information to someone else who could have tried to verify it some way or shape so that the story stands on it's own merits.

So far from what I've read/heard this evening the field seems to be divided into three groups..

Losers
Pat McQuaid - All he had to do was say we are taking Mr Landis's claims onboard and will investigate them fully with other authorities and he could have had the moral high ground, all he's done is take his foot out of his mouth to shoot it.

Allen Lim - The all singing all dancing new age guru is as dirty as anyone else, he now taints all around him who he has worked with including the likes of Wiggins

Radioshack - They could be gone before the TdF

Andy Rihs - Seemed like someone that was caught in the crossfire when phonak went tits up, now seems to be as culpable as Landis was.

Landis - He's done himself no favours in the way he's brought this to light and the way he's treated it, he's used it as some blackmailing tool to try get a team together, it's going to be the mud that's thrown at this story to make it less of a story.

On the Slide from Grace

Vaughters & Zabriskie - how they handles this really nails their colors to the mast, JV's talked the good talk, now he has the time to stand up and be counted, I think the ball is with him and Zabriskie and if they stand up and add their voices to Landis they can finally break the EPO Generation from Cycling

Winners
No-one

Chips Lovell

Vaughters and Zabriskie are doing the non-denial denial thing. You can only do that for so long. Sooner or later someone is going to ask "Yes or no, is what Floyd is saying true?"

I bet Tyler Hamilton's phone is ringing off the hook today.

Chips Lovell

Statement from Sky:

"From our point of view - let's face it - the team principal of Team Sky, my whole motivation for getting involved in this in the first place, is that we believe we can race clean as a team. The whole philosophy of the performance by the aggregation of marginal gains is something we've used to great effect at the Olympic Games and it's something we want to bring to this discipline of the sport. In that respect that's why we're in the sport."

"However, I think that [for] every single rider we sign on to this team - we've had a look at their biological passports, we did our due diligence. In Michael's case, the team he came from [HTC-Columbia], I think we have a lot of respect for in terms of their ethical code.

"However, there are allegations. I think from our point of view, we'll speak to Michael. But like anything else in life, you have to establish the fact. We have procedures and the procedures will be based on fact - not allegations. If allegations can be substantiated... there's procedures to handle everything from there."

aidanbike

One thing i can agree on with Lance and Johan, to some degree, is the disturbed nature of FL's carachter.
For years i always thought he seemed similar to M Rasmussen in ways. Both never seemed to get it that they might have done something wrong. This is quiet different from someone knowing they cheated and lying ( many of those), These guys seem not to morally understand there is right and wrong. They seem so self absorbed (Floyd fairness fund)
And from what people are now saying, bribery claims etc, this is bearing out in Floyd's case.
Floyd is not confessing to doping as much as he is being a cycling suicide bomber.
Hari Kari, to destry his enemies even if he goes down as well.
Will he sleep better for his confessions or if Armstrong is dethroned?

Here is a guy who says he wants to be able to sleep at night and yet he says he does not regret doping. Does not compute.
Personally i think while all the details might not be right in his emails, that he is genuinely telling of many of his experiences.
Maybe he is also embellishing his stories as well for max damage, i would not discount this.

Sadly the "crazy guy" spills the beans and because of credibility issues he is ostracised and like puerto it all goes away.
Remember Simeoni, Manzano, Andreu atc, The credibility of the accusers is always attacked by the publicity machines and the official line remains unchanged.
Like Pat McQ said on the radio Lance never tested positive.
Nice one Lance, good job there.

Leroy42

Lance crashes out, a people think its a coincidence.

Seems a bit extreme, especially for a known control freak to put himself into such an uncontrobable situation as a crash in the peleton.

Jeez, whatever you believe about LA, this is just crazy. Why not just climb off. Claim muscle strain or stomach bug etc. Whenever I want to chicken out on a bike ride I certainly don't cause an crash!!!

Lets concentrate on the real issues instead of concocting some silly conspiracy theories.

By the way, Pat McQaid is a disgrace. I welcomed his appointment, purely because t as great that such a cyclng backwater as ourselves (save for a few exceptional talents) had the top man. BUt he has shown himself to be more about the power than the sport. Shame on you, Mr McQaid.

Bunnyhopper

If the online Newstalk player won't work for you then try this:

http://media.newstalk.ie/newstalk/media_uploads/upload_mp3/1554907155100520kimmagemcquaid.mp3?uniqueID=989

DeadMan1

Leroy42 wrote: »

By the way, Pat McQaid is a disgrace. I welcomed his appointment, purely because t as great that such a cyclng backwater as ourselves (save for a few exceptional talents) had the top man. BUt he has shown himself to be more about the power than the sport. Shame on you, Mr McQaid.

I have to agree
"These are the rantings of a very disturbed man,” McQuaid says of Landis. Surely the allegations deserved to be treated seriously at least.

To twist the argument about having proof, where's McQuaid's proof that Landis is a lying mad man...

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

Statement from Sky:

That statement from Sky is the only one yet that sounds reasonable. The statements from everyone else are sounding EXTREMELY fishy. As you say, all non-denial denial, they are not coming straight out and saying "I didn't do it."

Lumen

IM0

They should just legalise doping and be done with it, that way we will all know everyones dirty or 'clean' and can decide then if we want to keep watching or even aspiring to enter the pro ranks, at least then everyone would know what they are getting into the public [which is what it all about] as well as the riders themselves, and the sport would be full of people who dont value their lives very much, a bit like that arnie movie 'running man' except they have the free choice to gamble with their lives or whatever instead of being forced :pac:

Doing it now wont work though as the ones now thought they were getting into a clean sport/career, so just like the radio-ban they should put it out there now and bring it in for the new crop of riders coming through, ok [young] lads if you want to go pro this is how it IS, no bull****, no wondering, take it or leave it.

It wont be any less interesting as a sport watching it like that, it may even be more interesting but at least we will know they are freaks rather than wondering :pac:

Its tempting :rolleyes:

petethedrummer

http://www.cycliststweeting.com/twitter/TheRealFloydL/

He has been planning this for 5 months it seems.

davyjose

Reading a bit more about this, I think it comes down to whether or not the feds do investigate the supposed cover up of Lance's supposed 2002 EPO positive test cover-up (or is it 2001? Landis is sketchy even on this). If they find something, then the sh!t will hit the fan. If not, then this will all look like the rantings of a madman*.

*Remember, on top of all this, he's still protesting the results of his own TdF test and disqualification.

Chips Lovell

It's not just the bribery. They're investigating the doping too.

Junior

Some interesting answers about Landis's situation now that these claims have come to light - is he liable for slander

As Blorg has said the Sky statement seems to be the most reasonable, they've put some onus on the rider, they've shown their procedure in selection of riders, and they've also thrown a lifeline to HTC Columbia to say ye didn't know about this either right ? I think Barry is only a bit part player in this, he could deny it and it could all go away and be forgotten about, due to the melee about everything else.

Junior

Oh and the interesting thing about the dope test that Landis failed is that he has still said he was taking HGH which isn't what he failed the test for, I never believed he was clean back then, but by f*ck did he expose the labs as a pure and utter sham.

Chips Lovell

I think there's a few riders who would be happy to come forward if they got some sort of assurance that their careers would be safe.

But there are some people about with little to lose. Hamilton is one, Clinger is another. Andreu has already spoken about his own drug use but hasn't pointed the finger at anyone else yet. But he and his wife have a very strained relationship with Armstrong.

I'm very keen to see what Sky and Barry say this morning.

Junior wrote: »

Oh and the interesting thing about the dope test that Landis failed is that he has still said he was taking HGH which isn't what he failed the test for, I never believed he was clean back then, but by f*ck did he expose the labs as a pure and utter sham.

I'm a bit confused about that. I saw the denial he was on testosterone, but a guy from Versus who interviewed him said he confirmed he was on everything, including testosterone.

ednwireland

me@ucd wrote: »

They should just legalise doping and be done with it, that way we will all know everyones dirty or 'clean' and can decide then if we want to keep watching or even aspiring to enter the pro ranks, at least then everyone would know what they are getting into the public [which is what it all about] as well as the riders themselves, and the sport would be full of people who dont value their lives very much, a bit like that arnie movie 'running man' except they have the free choice to gamble with their lives or whatever instead of being forced :pac:

Doing it now wont work though as the ones now thought they were getting into a clean sport/career, so just like the radio-ban they should put it out there now and bring it in for the new crop of riders coming through, ok [young] lads if you want to go pro this is how it IS, no bull****, no wondering, take it or leave it.

It wont be any less interesting as a sport watching it like that, it may even be more interesting but at least we will know they are freaks rather than wondering :pac:

Its tempting :rolleyes:

what do you do when people start dying ? as they push the limits of everything ? do you start introducing limits , where does that leave you .............oh wait. how did we get here again ? remember tom simpson

irishmotorist

I'm not sure if it was mentioned here yesterday, but something that I only saw this morning was that Floyd said that Lance paide the UCI money to make a positive test in 2002 Tour de Swiss go away. Lance, apparently, didn't even compete in that. That, unfortuantely, adds hugely to the 'mad man with a vendetta' story if it's true.

tunney

Lance is great.

davyjose

irishmotorist wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was mentioned here yesterday, but something that I only saw this morning was that Floyd said that Lance paide the UCI money to make a positive test in 2002 Tour de Swiss go away. Lance, apparently, didn't even compete in that. That, unfortuantely, adds hugely to the 'mad man with a vendetta' story if it's true.

This is exactly what makes me think he's just an angry man, out to do some damage, and that the Armstrong team will mop this one up, no problem.

irishmotorist

It reminds me of a phrase - "just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you".

Floyd may well not be coming across as the most coherent, but I'd imagine he's (for example) mixing a 2002 race up with a 2001 race, rather than fabricating the story. It's too easy a plot hole to miss if it's a story that is being invented.