The 'New' Handpass Rule

CiaranMT

Mods, please close this thread if another exists, I couldn't see any myself.

After an afternoon of absolute confusion and calamity yesterday, is anyone any the wiser as to what this new tweaking of the interpretation is?

Does anybody else feel like petitioning the referee's association (is there one?) to ignore this new rule? I do.

It's utterly daft. It's conception, implementation, everything. I feel sorry for the players and coaches, but especially the referees. I hope fans recognise that the referees are being put in a ridiculous position here, and should direct their ire at Croke Park.

royaler83

CiaranMT wrote: »

Mods, please close this thread if another exists, I couldn't see any myself.

After an afternoon of absolute confusion and calamity yesterday, is anyone any the wiser as to what this new tweaking of the interpretation is?

Does anybody else feel like petitioning the referee's association (is there one?) to ignore this new rule? I do.

It's utterly daft. It's conception, implementation, everything. I feel sorry for the players and coaches, but especially the referees. I hope fans recognise that the referees are being put in a ridiculous position here, and should direct their ire at Croke Park.

Its a complete sham and farce of a rule, simple as that!

Idiots in suits sitting around a table thinking up stupid changes while waiting for the free dinner to arrive.

Every ex player i've heard comment on this rule have ridiculed it

smashey

This is a total disgrace. I was going to ask what they were thinking but it's blatantly obvious that they weren't thinking.

It's a complete farce and has the capacity to ruin a lot of games this summer.

blackbelt

Had to referee yesterday and bring the sheet of new rules with me and chat with the mentors of both teams about the hand pass rule.I did not pull up one technical foul as a result of a handpass.

Didn't think it would be a huge problem until I caught some of the Sunday Game and saw referees blowing up for players who didn't swing their arm to "strike" it.This new rule is stupid and just ruins the momentum of the game.It is a cancer that will turn the public off watching the championship and taking more interest in the World Cup.

The GAA have to act fast before the frustration gets to a level where it will cost a team a big game as Colm O Rourke alluded to.

CiaranMT

blackbelt wrote: »

Had to referee yesterday and bring the sheet of new rules with me and chat with the mentors of both teams about the hand pass rule.I did not pull up one technical foul as a result of a handpass.

Didn't think it would be a huge problem until I caught some of the Sunday Game and saw referees blowing up for players who didn't swing their arm to "strike" it.This new rule is stupid and just ruins the momentum of the game.It is a cancer that will turn the public off watching the championship and taking more interest in the World Cup.

The GAA have to act fast before the frustration gets to a level where it will cost a team a big game as Colm O Rourke alluded to.

Fair play to ya blackbelt, this is what all refs should do. How the big-wigs thought that this new rule was going to work fine and dandy is beyond me

Gingy

It's a joke alright. What was the problem with the old rule? Did I miss some big incident that forced this issue to be discussed? Next you will have to swing your leg up to your arse, just to show a kicking action.

It was also brought in too quickly, rushed in for championship!

Stinicker

I think this totally illustrates how completely detached the GAA has become from its grassroots. Croke Park is running the GAA now like a corporate business and between this and all the other rubbish the spout out to the clubs they are killing their organisation. Within the next 15 years the GAA will only exist in a handful of currently successful counties like Kerry and Kilkenny and even then it will be a minority. The GAA are destroying themselves from the inside out with rubbish like all the other rules, regulations and political correctness gone mad.

Shane10

the handpass rule, a free for everything, you cannot touch a player now. the game is becoming a joke.

CiaranMT

Gingy wrote: »

It's a joke alright. What was the problem with the old rule? Did I miss some big incident that forced this issue to be discussed?

It wasn't broke, so naturally, they had to fix it... :rolleyes:

GAAman

I have to be honest and have said it elsewhere, the new rules brought in are shambolic but one thing i think and hope for. That as we get closer to the championship ref's will take it upon themselves (like blackbelt above) to ignore certain rules with specific regard to the hand pass rule.

I just hope i am right i would really hate to see the stupidity exhibited during the derry armagh game, it was shocking altogether

Although having said that will there be a situation whereby even though pretty much everyone player and spectator alike hate these rules, team A are playing team B and team A score a match winning point/goal having committed an "illegal" hand pass unbeknownst to the ref, team B being irate that the ref allowed it complain high and low. Cue the gaa, refs and whoever else who supports the new rules with a giant "i told you so" and the rule stays.

Nightmare scenario or what?! :eek:

Lu Tze

If they wanted to change it, they should have changed it to fist pass only, no open palm. Would have been easier to referee

amacachi

Lu Tze wrote: »

If they wanted to change it, they should have changed it to fist pass only, no open palm. Would have been easier to referee

That's exactly what I came in here to post. Simple to enforce and simple for everyone to see. I still don't see the need to change it, but it'd be better than what they have done.

Lu Tze

When i played under age, everybody used the fist pass, there was no open palm passing. Was there a rule change at some point to allow this, or was it just a development of the game that came about since?

rebel girl 15

Lu Tze wrote: »

When i played under age, everybody used the fist pass, there was no open palm passing. Was there a rule change at some point to allow this, or was it just a development of the game that came about since?

Think there was a rule change, read it somewhere that there was

Spiritoftheseventies

Anything that slows the game down is a bad mistake. End of the day if referees are blowing up every five minutes its going to piss off the paying punter

ShamoBuc

It is a joke of a rule... but... if the players start to hand pass "properly" then the ref won't have to blow up every 5 mins! They just have to get over it and get on with it. The rules are the rules and as we have seen, the Refs are going to enforce them.... for the moment at least.

pickarooney

Can anyone explain the new handpass rule? It's the first I've heard of it.

Spiritoftheseventies

pickarooney wrote: »

Can anyone explain the new handpass rule? It's the first I've heard of it.

This best explains it. The open hand pass is replaced with the closed fist which I'm guessing is to avoid the occurence of "pushing" the ball. I think overall it was very badly thoughtout.
I agree there are too many instances of players taking the hand pass score but it is overall an integral part of the game in terms of keeping the game flowing.
I can see the new rule being phased out very quickly.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/connacht-in-move-to-quash-controversial-handpass-rule-2074828.html

pickarooney

From that I understand that they're going back to the old rule of fist-pass only and not allowing the slap-pass any more?

It sounds like a good thing to me, but I assume there's more to it.

Spiritoftheseventies

Where there is confusion amongst to players this will translate to broken play on the pitch.
Again punters do not want the game being stopped every five minutes. It will prove a huge turnoff.

pickarooney

What is the confusion though? Why is everyone so dead-set against disallowing slap-passing?

CoalBucket

The new rules are half assed. I'm open to correction but from what I've read and heard is that the open hand pass is still allowed once there is a clear underarm stricking motion.

I can only assume that the purpose of this ruling is to prevent the "throwing pass" with the open palm or in some cases the "push pass".

If the GAA wanted to rid the game of these types of passes they should have just went back to the old school closed fist and be done with it.

I heard yesterday that Kerry had over 280 hand passes in the Tipp game. I would like to know how many foot passes there were in comparison.

IMO the foot pass is a dying art because it is to easy to shuffle the ball out with your hands Yes the game moves faster but it is also becoming more like basketball.

Spiritoftheseventies

i think the hand pass is good in that if you have to kick it too often then with that there comes injury.
You look at the Dublin Kerry game where the balance right. Now if the new rule was in place Im pretty sure that goal below from 77 semi finalo would not have been allowed because Bobby Doyles pass was "pushed" as maybe was Tony Hanahoes
And as such we would have been denied one of the greatest goals if not the greatest goals of all time.
Build up play here was excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcilnx2p5X0

An Citeog

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

This best explains it. The open hand pass is replaced with the closed fist which I'm guessing is to avoid the occurence of "pushing" the ball. I think overall it was very badly thoughtout.
I agree there are too many instances of players taking the hand pass score but it is overall an integral part of the game in terms of keeping the game flowing.
I can see the new rule being phased out very quickly.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/connacht-in-move-to-quash-controversial-handpass-rule-2074828.html

That was the experimental rule that was brought in for the National League and subsequently voted against at congress. Instead of reverting back to the old hand pass rule, they decided to change it again.

According to the new rule, you can strike the ball with the closed fist or with the open hand, provided there is a clear underhand striking action.

pickarooney wrote: »

What is the confusion though? Why is everyone so dead-set against disallowing slap-passing?

This pretty much sums up a lot of player's views on the new rule,

Tomás Ó S&#233 wrote:

You’re asking a 30-year-old inter-county player to scrap what he’s learned over the past 20 years and learn a new style of handpass days before the start of the championship.

This is completely disgraceful, and it’s not a word I use loosely. What was wrong with the handpass from last season? I completely accept that what we would call the old ‘Mikey Sheehy’ pass – a volleyball-type overhand flick from the 80s – should be outlawed. I have no problem with that. But if there is a clear striking motion, then where’s the problem? This ham-fisted attempt to follow up on the experiment in the National League is poorly-timed and poorly thought out.

And mark my words, it will come back to bite the GAA during the championship.

I have looked at Kieran Donaghy’s pass to Bryan Sheehan for that disallowed goal. Was that not a clear striking action? If Donaghy wants a quick lay-off to a forward running through, it’s impossible for that to be underhand. It’s going to have to be sideways as the forward is running past him. This will slow things down, clog them up. It is going to cause nothing but hassle for referees and players.

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/05/18/new-hand-pass-rule-completely-disgraceful-says-kerry-star-tomas-o-se/

It's just change for the sake of change, which is of absolutely no benefit to players, referees or the game in general.

toffeesfan

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

i think the hand pass is good in that if you have to kick it too often then with that there comes injury.
You look at the Dublin Kerry game where the balance right. Now if the new rule was in place Im pretty sure that goal below from 77 semi finalo would not have been allowed because Bobby Doyles pass was "pushed" as maybe was Tony Hanahoes
And as such we would have been denied one of the greatest goals if not the greatest goals of all time.
Build up play here was excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcilnx2p5X0

if ref from armagh/derry game was involved a free would have been given to doyle before he got up so that build up would never have happened!!
and if he did the first hand pass would have resulted in a free for kerry as there was no underarm striking :rolleyes:

pickarooney

I'll look out for a clip of a pass that's now deemed illegal. It's starting to make a bit more sense now - basically it's not the shape of the hand but the motion prior to the strike that's in question? Good luck monitoring that...

Spiritoftheseventies

toffeesfan wrote: »

if ref from armagh/derry game was involved a free would have been given to doyle before he got up so that build up would never have happened!!
and if he did the first hand pass would have resulted in a free for kerry as there was no underarm striking :rolleyes:

Exactly. My argument is that there was an excellent mix of kicking and passing there and if you look at that game in full there was more kicking.
Common sense should prevail here. I agree the rule has its advantages but where a players are constantly being pulled back it is just going to drive everyone nuts.
From what i know it has always been the rule where you can strike but not push the ball from the hand.
The problem also is that a whole new bunch of rules have been introduced and at a time where attendances seem to be dropping, GAA cant afford to be slowing game down as this rule will.
Again maybe introduce in non competitive club games ie secondary cup games and at least allow players get used to it.

Diabhal Beag

I hate how there seems to be new rules every single year. Why couldn't the GAA just leave football to how it always was. The handpass rule is pure bollocks.

Spiritoftheseventies

pickarooney wrote: »

I'll look out for a clip of a pass that's now deemed illegal. It's starting to make a bit more sense now - basically it's not the shape of the hand but the motion prior to the strike that's in question? Good luck monitoring that...

If its over hand its pushing, its under hand its striking from what I can see.

mattman_iflaf

I'm amazed this new rule has been taken on board.... it'll change again next year...

Spiritoftheseventies

Ciaran Whelan made a good point on it which should clear up the confusion. Quoting from article

The GAA must sit down with the referees this week. Instead of referees being asked to interpret it one way or another, they should play it to the letter of the law. The rule is quite clear – once you have an underhand strike, it’s a legitimate handpass, and the vast majority of handpasses which were blown up on Sunday were legitimate.

The overall standard of the three games was poor but the way the handpass was interpreted, where referees seemed to be giving a free if they didn’t see the hand go back a certain distance, was one of the reasons for that

http://www.joe.ie/001711/1/1/story/fist-of-fury

aidan24326

Just watching Meath v Offaly here and the ref has pulled up several perfectly good handpasses. Who is behind this nonsense? What the hell was wrong with the handpass the way it was?

Who cares if you flick the ball with an open hand? Why is fisting it supposed to be a preferable skill? I just don't get it at all.

Also, the ref is blowing for absolutely everything, and it's far from a dirty game.

rebel girl 15

I'm watching the second half of that game and he has pulled three or four handpasses correctly, even though the commentators were adamant they were okay. From what I can see the way the rule is being implemented is if the players handpass with an open hand or a closed fist, and the hand holding the ball moves with the pass i.e. the hand holding the ball moves towards the receiver, it is illegal.
Thats why so called legitimate passes are being blown up.

hardybuck

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I'm watching the second half of that game and he has pulled three or four handpasses correctly, even though the commentators were adamant they were okay. From what I can see the way the rule is being implemented is if the players handpass with an open hand or a closed fist, and the hand holding the ball moves with the pass i.e. the hand holding the ball moves towards the receiver, it is illegal.
Thats why so called legitimate passes are being blown up.

Take your referee hat off for a minute. This afternoon and last week have been a total farce. Both the rule itself and the implementation of the rule is totally wrong. The game is being ruined by rulemakers who must have nothing better to be doing.

What are the benefits of the change to the sideline kick rule for example?

The game is now very tough to watch. Thanks for ruining my summer rulemakers.

rebel girl 15

hardybuck wrote: »

Take your referee hat off for a minute. This afternoon and last week have been a total farce. Both the rule itself and the implementation of the rule is totally wrong. The game is being ruined by rulemakers who must have nothing better to be doing.

What are the benefits of the change to the sideline kick rule for example?

The game is now very tough to watch. Thanks for ruining my summer rulemakers.

Some of the blame can be shifted onto the delegates that voted against the fisted handpass, which would have made the games so much easier!

The timing of this was completely wrong, bringing it in with no experimentation. I think the delegates should not be allowed to be voting on the rules, it should be a panel of players, referees and experts. I think the powers that be wanted to stop the throws that were creeping into the game - take last years AI final, there was a total of 59 illegal handpasses in the game. If the referee had called all of them, I bet there would have been uproar. This new rule gives a definite idea to the referees as to what the illegal handpass is. Biggest problem is that the GAA hasn't decided to tell the players and coaches exactly what the rule will be defined as, because it is not being defined as an underhand strike


Sideline kick - honestly couldn't tell ya, maybe to stop players taking quite a number of steps into the pitch before taking the kick, or to make it easier for a ref to see that the players are the required distance away from the kicker.

hardybuck

Most delegates I know have feck all connection to the game today, and take the place of more suitable candidates who don't put themselves forward. We must take some steps to encourage younger and more qualified delegates.

You keep harking back to these 59 handpasses in last years final-I've yet to hear any punters even mention them, never mind complain about them.

Its gone to the stage now where the referee is the most visable person in the game, thats never a good sign.

What really worries me is whats going to happen in club games, I can see a few high profile violent incidents hitting the newspapers.

rebel girl 15

The difference in the Offaly-Meath game and the Tyrone-Antrim game is that the ref is playing it to the letter of the law, if there is an underhand striking action then the handpass is legal, whereas some refs have this idea if the hand holding the ball moves with the pass, it is illegal

Esto Fidelis

This rule is destroying the GAA game, I was at the Offaly - Meath game and the ref balls up this game or rather the rule did. Niall McNamee was blown against twice when he won the ball but due to being knocked to the groung with 2/3 meath player around him he tried to pass the ball out and was blown up. It is not possible to strike the ballin this way when on the ground with players around you.

Our own club is out next week in the club championship and these stupid rules are in, and I think they will be fists flying with players getting fustrated.

28064212

hardybuck wrote: »

Take your referee hat off for a minute. This afternoon and last week have been a total farce. Both the rule itself and the implementation of the rule is totally wrong. The game is being ruined by rulemakers who must have nothing better to be doing.

What are the benefits of the change to the sideline kick rule for example?

The game is now very tough to watch. Thanks for ruining my summer rulemakers.

The benefits of the sideline kick rule are that you don't have the situation where players desperately try to make an extra few yards in-field to make it a much easier kick for themselves. The old rule had no clear line you couldn't cross, it varied from game to game. At least this way it's absolutely crystal clear.

The handpass situation is rapidly descending into farce. What posessed the GAA to bring it in 10 days before the start of the championship is beyond me. The managers don't understand it, the players don't understand it, and the refs don't seem to understand it. Or at least, they don't understand the same interpretation of it.

I'm glad the GAA is at least open to the idea of change, and some of the changes have been good in the past. I'd rather an organisation that was open to experimentation and improvement over somewhere like FIFA where any change is a bad thing. But they need to take a look at who's deciding what changes are being made, and bring in the stakeholders, the refs, players and managers, to get their opinions

hardybuck

Again I heard no complaints about sidelines up to now. Its common practise for hurlers to bring it in.

I get the impression that Central Council feel under pressure to keep changing rules in order to show that they are progressive and up with the times.

28064212

hardybuck wrote: »

Again I heard no complaints about sidelines up to now. Its common practise for hurlers to bring it in.

Where do you draw the line? Is one yard ok? 2? 5? 10? Should the players who are most willing to push the boundaries be the ones to gain, while the ones who stick to the spirit lose out?

Hammer Archer

ARGH!
First time seeing the new handpass rule in the flesh and it was absolutely ridiculous. Fahy was unbelievably poor in applying it. At one stage in the second half, a Meath back played a handpass around 20 metres and somehow was given a free against him. How in the hell can a player handpass that far without giving it a bit of welly with the fist?
Disgraceful rule to be honest.

hardybuck

28064212 wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? Is one yard ok? 2? 5? 10? Should the players who are most willing to push the boundaries be the ones to gain, while the ones who stick to the spirit lose out?

Seriously does anyone care?

28064212

hardybuck wrote: »

Seriously does anyone care?

You asked what the benefits of the rule-change were and I told you. Not sure what else you expected tbh. And to answer your earlier question, yes, I have heard people complaining about sideline takers completely taking the piss with the amount of yards they steal

hardybuck

28064212 wrote: »

You asked what the benefits of the rule-change were and I told you. Not sure what else you expected tbh. And to answer your earlier question, yes, I have heard people complaining about sideline takers completely taking the piss with the amount of yards they steal

Fair enough. I can see more complaints about the new rule than lads stealing yards. Its just another measure to slow games down and frustrate players and spectators alike.

An Citeog

28064212 wrote: »

I'm glad the GAA is at least open to the idea of change, and some of the changes have been good in the past. I'd rather an organisation that was open to experimentation and improvement over somewhere like FIFA where any change is a bad thing. But they need to take a look at who's deciding what changes are being made, and bring in the stakeholders, the refs, players and managers, to get their opinions

These were the committees that decided on the experimental rules for the National Leagues this year,

Football: Seamus Woods (Chairman), Michael Curley, Michael McGrath, Oisin McConville, John Kiely, Pat Daly, Liam Sammon, Anthony Rainbow, Patrick Doherty (Secretary).

Hurling: Simon Moroney (Chairman), Ned Quinn, Noel O’Donoghue, Pat O’Connor, Fergal Hartley, Jamesie O’Connor, Ollie Canning, Pat Daly, Fr, Seamus Gardiner, Patrick Doherty (Secretary).

http://munster.gaa.ie/2009/12/08/summary-of-proposals-of-hurling-and-football-rules-committees/

hardybuck wrote: »

Again I heard no complaints about sidelines up to now. Its common practise for hurlers to bring it in.

I get the impression that Central Council feel under pressure to keep changing rules in order to show that they are progressive and up with the times.

I agree with your second point here. If you're going to set up a committee whose only mandate is to review the playing rules of gaelic football and hurling, it's fairly probable that you're going to get a whole load of solutions to problems that don't even exist, just so the committee can justify its own existence.

As for the sidelines, I have to say I disagree. Players have been taking the piss in recent years imo. Compare the two of these for instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lNLZJarKZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49fCfCj-FRM

One's probably the greatest point I've ever seen while the other is a well taken free 5-10 metres in from the line.

hardybuck

Wide spacious sidelines in Thurles allowed Maurice more than a full run up. Constrast that to the dangerously tight Portlaoise today, and many club pitches. Often trouble in club grounds with spectators standing on sidelines.

Spiritoftheseventies

Taking sideline balls behind the sideline has it problems. Only takes one mentor to walk within your eyeline to put you off.

Spiritoftheseventies

Totally confused with this hand ball rule. Far too many rules open to interpretation and misinterpretation. Demo from McStay confused me even further. As the great Whelo said it if aint broke dont fix it.

flahavaj

I'm all for encouraging less handpassing and more use of the foot in the game, but these rule changes seem totally needless to me and are just confusing everyone. Like SOTS I haven't a clue what's within therules or not anymore. The flow of the game between Meath and Offaly was interupted on several occasions today and in the main for nothing.

Dublin Red Hand

http://ulster.gaa.ie

Interesting take here from Pat McEneaney right after reffing the game at Casement, where there was little or no talk about the handpass change, unlike the previous week. Pat is frank and open as always, which is to be welcomed. He describes the ruling as a 'red herring'.