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RFID - VeriChip - Mark of the beast?
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Only Wicknight can derail a thread by building up a strawman like this.
OP: What are your thoughts on XYZ. Mine is that I believe XYZ is such and such.
Wicknight: Religious people are afraid of technology because XYZ. Where is the bible support for this?
Jimi has already answered your questions but let me put it this way: Is there the faintest, slightest possibility that some sort of technology just might need to be employed to administer marks that are to be placed on billions of people around the world so that they can buy and sell? I would say that there is the slightest of possibilities of that yes. How else would you do it? Do I believe that the RFID and Verichip are the actual mark of the beast? No, but I do believe that if the prophecies in the Book of Revelation are correct then this is the kind of technology that will be used when the time comes for people to be given the mark, but that's just my opinion, which I could be wrong about, and until I hear good arguments to make me change my mind I will stick with that thanks.
But even if this is true, does it mean that the Bible condemns all kinds of technology? No, that is just a strawman that Wicknight is building up in order to derail this thread even though in my OP I first of all highlighted all the positives that this type of technology embraces., i.e. child protection, monitoring of the sick and of prisoners and so on.
Anyway getting away from what some of us believe the Bible warns against, what about the civil liberties issues surrounding this? Should a 911 type national security event take place somewhere in the world, which would result in having the effect of tightening the compulsory noose for technology like this, would you take the chip without any qualms? Or would you resist it? If so why? And if not why?0 -
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Maybe that is the case, thats no arguement for it though. Not to mention the fact that with alot of technology has brought alot of cons due to its abuse. Is it a reason to stop technology? No. However, everything should be taken on its merit. Just because someone was wary of radio, doesn't mean we shouldn't be wary of RFID. I mean lets face it, abuse of the radio etc is one thing, the implications of a possible abuse in RFID would be quite another. As I said, I'd be very wary and would like to know a hell of alot about it before someone sticks one in me. I'd like to add up the pro's and cons of its possible applications. One things for sure though, I wouldn't base it on what its being sold to us as.
No offence Jimi, but you seem to have a "they vs us" mentally going in this post. It's people like Wicknight and me who are involved with the technology and I can assure you I'm not part of any grand conspiracy to "sell it to the masses".
The technology itself is entirely neutral, if you are concerned about private data collection and abuse of such data; I'd focus more on google and facebook et al.
It's perhaps unfortunate for the conspiracy-minded people that these don't fit biblical prophecies so easily. Because let's face it, the only reason RFID is targeted more than google is that it can be made to fit such prophecies. 0 -
No offence Jimi, but you seem to have a "they vs us" mentally going in this post. It's people like Wicknight and me who are involved with the technology and I can assure you I'm not part of any grand conspiracy to "sell it to the masses".
Ah, but what if you have been manipulated by your "masters" eh?, eh? 0 -
StealthRolex wrote: »Ah, but what if you have been manipulated by your "masters" eh?, eh?
Yes, also I could be lying! Time for home, better call my black helicopter....0 -
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Soul Winner wrote: »
No need to be confused, I'm simply trying to understand how we go from a mark on your hand to RFID tags and barcodes.
I suppose in hind-sight the question could be put as What makes people think that the mark on the hand isn't going to be a mark on your hand?
An RFID tag is not a mark, that is in fact the point of an RFID tag, it is wireless.Soul Winner wrote: »Jimi has already answered your questions but let me put it this way: Is there the faintest, slightest possibility that some sort of technology just might need to be employed to administer marks that are to be placed on billions of people around the world so that they can buy and sell? I would say that there is the slightest of possibilities of that yes. How else would you do it?
We have probably already skipped over anything that relate back to Revelations in terms of technology. Presenting your hand so that someone can see a mark on it to allow you to buy stuff is not something that is particularly likely in the future since technology has already advanced passed such a point.
The safest place to put a RFID take in a human is in the arm or bum, and you simply walk through the scanner, you don't show the tag to anyone or anything.Soul Winner wrote: »But even if this is true, does it mean that the Bible condemns all kinds of technology? No, that is just a strawman that Wicknight is building up in order to derail this thread
I never claimed the Bible condemned technology, quite the opposite in fact. I had a hunch that the Bible was not talking about being concerned about anything as technologically advanced as a barcode or RFID tag in revelations.
Which is why I found it confusing that people jump to these technologies as some sort of evidence of what is coming.
The OP was also asking for atheist opinions and discussing the menice of these technologies in a general sense, so I'm not sure I'm derailing the thread.0 -
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No offence Jimi, but you seem to have a "they vs us" mentally going in this post.
No offence taken. I've got me a shield to protect me from taking offence:
It's people like Wicknight and me who are involved with the technology and I can assure you I'm not part of any grand conspiracy to "sell it to the masses".
I never mentioned conspiracy, I mentioned the abuse of technology. Do I think Blofeld is somewhere laughing evily as his evil plan comes together? No I don't. Just like I don't think Einstein was thinking of atomic bombs, or internet developers were thinking about spreading child porn.
Do I trust world powers to be moral and ethical? No. Do I think its 'us and them'. Maybe slightly.The technology itself is entirely neutral,
I know.if you are concerned about private data collection and abuse of such data; I'd focus more on google and facebook et al.
Indeed. As I said, If RFID was proposed, I'd want to know a hell of alot about it. I would hope anyone would.It's perhaps unfortunate for the conspiracy-minded people that these don't fit biblical prophecies so easily. Because let's face it, the only reason RFID is targeted more than google is that it can be made to fit such prophecies.
If it 'can' be made to fit such prophecies I'd believe it. At the moment however, it can't fit such prophecies, so its inconsequential. People who shout 'Its The Mark', would likely be saying such things about something else if RFID wasn't about.0 -
No need to be confused, I'm simply trying to understand how we go from a mark on your hand to RFID tags and barcodes.
The key is not so much the mark, rather it is the buying and selling part of the prophecy that gives us the problem. If the prophecy is correct then whatever this mark is will allow people to buy and sell because according to the prophecy we will not be able to buy and sell without it. Now what other candidates do we have that might be able to fulfill this prophecy apart from RFID and VeriChip technology?I suppose in hind-sight the question could be put as What makes people think that the mark on the hand isn't going to be a mark on your hand?
Good question. That is a a roundabout way of asking the same question I asked. Thanks
An RFID tag is not a mark, that is in fact the point of an RFID tag, it is wireless.
Well lets see now, the word in Revelation is Charagma which means stamp or scratch or etching. A stamp or branding system used by cattle herders identifies their cattle as belonging to them. Although very basic, they do contain information which can be understood by the use of symbols and letters etc. The information that a chip would contain would significantly surpass that of a simple stamp, but under an X-ray machine this is exactly what a chip would look like.
In addition to this, the prophecy also tells us that the mark will be IN the hand or IN the forehead it does not say that it will be On the hand or On the forehead specifically. The Greek word is Epi which can be rendered Onto, Over, or Within. So although most of the English translations render it 'On' it is not restricted to that, it can also be rendered 'In' or 'Within'.We have probably already skipped over anything that relate back to Revelations in terms of technology. Presenting your hand so that someone can see a mark on it to allow you to buy stuff is not something that is particularly likely in the future since technology has already advanced passed such a point.
Buying on-line yes but in what way has technology advanced past this point? Aren't we still using credit cards in supermarkets and such? And aren't credit cards more susceptible to theft than a chip located inside your body?The safest place to put a RFID take in a human is in the arm or bum, and you simply walk through the scanner, you don't show the tag to anyone or anything.
What about the people who would like to use this technology for shopping? Wouldn't it be 'handier' (pun intended) in the hand?I never claimed the Bible condemned technology, quite the opposite in fact. I had a hunch that the Bible was not talking about being concerned about anything as technologically advanced as a barcode or RFID tag in revelations.
If you actually have an opinion on what the Bible actual is referring to then I'd love to hear it.Which is why I found it confusing that people jump to these technologies as some sort of evidence of what is coming.
Well if the cap fits...The OP was also asking for atheist opinions and discussing the menice of these technologies in a general sense, so I'm not sure I'm derailing the thread.
But you did try (unintentionally probably) to derail the thread. You immediately jumped into strawannig before you gave your opinion on what was asked in the OP, which is what I welcomed from the Athesists and Agnostics, not strawman arguments.0 -
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