RFID - VeriChip - Mark of the beast?

Soul Winner

I know its been discussed before but just thought I'd spice things up around here

Has anyone any thoughts on the RFID / VeriChip?

It would seem that as the years roll by people are slowly but surely growing in their acceptance of such technology where it applies to security in the workplace, monitoring of children for safety purposes and for the old and sick in order to be able to keep tabs on them should they be in need of any help. All these applications are really good ideas and would benefit society on the whole. But I feel there is a very dark side to all this, one that is not within mankind's ability to control? I believe that we could be getting primed for acceptance of this technology for general everyday use like shopping, doctor visits, applying for driver's licenses and so on. I see it becoming compulsory due to its effectiveness in securing peace of mind for many in society. It's appeal is in its good applications but what of its bad ones? Will they outweigh the good in the end?

As a Christian do you think it bares all the hallmarks of the Mark of the Beast described in the Book of Revelation? Is it possible, that should this technology be introduced on a global scale that the prophesy regarding its effect come to pass? That no man can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast? It's pretty obvious to me that this will be the natural evolution of this technology after a while should it be accepted en mass.

i.e. It starts off as a good idea for the monitoruing of children, the sick and prisoners. Then as more and more acceptance is incurred, it is used in the work place for security reasons i.e nobody can steal your ID and use it to gain access to your workplace. It is then adapted by the medical profession and eventually for national security purposes become compulsory, and it tha happens eventually you won't be able to work, drive, travel abroad etc. Then eventually due to the security risk that carrying cash around involves it will eventually become the everyday choice of how to do credit transactions, buy groceries in supermarkets and what not. I have no trouble believing this at all.

If you don't believe that it is (or will become) the mark of the beast, would you be worried about it anyway? If so, can you explain your reasons please?

These questions are also directed at the Atheists and Agnostics but your responses should be civil and on stay on topic.

Personally I believe that if this is not the mark of the beast then it is surely a forerunner to it.

More on this here

lmaopml

This should be interesting

I guess myself, I always imagined the 'mark of the beast' as something that wouldn't be introduced in a subtle and 'slow' way such as tagging et all for general purposes.......because of the obscurity I guess of the reason why one has decided to be 'tagged'.

..I don't know why, but I always imagined it would be more like a clear 'rejection' of the existence of God made purposefully and with a clear intent to do so...

How that would work though, I have no idea..lol...

JimiTime

Don't think its the mark of the beast and would second lmaopml's idea of how the mark would come about. However, I still hate the idea of it. I'm always wary when something is sold to me as security.

MrPudding

In before the Run_to_da_hills.

MrP

strobe

There is already 666 in every single barcode. Check it out yourself, the 3 long, thin thickness, double lines at the beginning, middle and end that's on all the barcodes is the symbol for 6. I always thought that was cool, the way revelations talks about no one being able to trade without the number and it's actually there on pretty much anything you buy nowadays. Soon to be on most passports aswell. Turns out Lucifer is anything but subtle.

Zombrex

strobe wrote: »

There is already 666 in every single barcode. Check it out yourself, the 3 long, thin thickness, double lines at the beginning, middle and end that's on all the barcodes is the symbol for 6.

Its not the symbol for 6, it just looks a bit like the symbol for 6, but it has a different meaning.

Anywhoo, I've always wondered is the mark of the beast actually associated with fear of technology in the Bible, or is that just what people in modern types associate it with? Could the mark of the beast be literally a magical mark, nothing to do with technology? Or is technology referenced in the Bible itself?

StealthRolex

strobe wrote: »

There is already 666 in every single barcode. Check it out yourself, the 3 long, thin thickness, double lines at the beginning, middle and end that's on all the barcodes is the symbol for 6. I always thought that was cool, the way revelations talks about no one being able to trade without the number and it's actually there on pretty much anything you buy nowadays. Soon to be on most passports aswell. Turns out Lucifer is anything but subtle.

If you believe that you have absolutely no idea of how subtle Satan is.

StealthRolex

Wicknight wrote: »

Its not the symbol for 6, it just looks a bit like the symbol for 6, but it has a different meaning.

Anywhoo, I've always wondered is the mark of the beast actually associated with fear of technology in the Bible, or is that just what people in modern types associate it with? Could the mark of the beast be literally a magical mark, nothing to do with technology? Or is technology referenced in the Bible itself?

You should try reading the Bible sometime. Where is this "fear of technology" of which you speak?

StealthRolex

Soul Winner wrote: »

If you don't believe that it is (or will become) the mark of the beast, would you be worried about it anyway? If so, can you explain your reasons please?

I don't believe that but I don't care for it either as it is an erosion of civil liberties and it is of no benefit to the host.

My understanding is that the mark will be used sometime after the general apostasy and those who want it will willingly receive it in large numbers.

Once the Antichrist is in power he will have no need for subtlety. It will be a simple matter of accept the mark or die.

prinz

Soul Winner wrote: »

As a Christian do you think it bares all the hallmarks of the Mark of the Beast described in the Book of Revelation?

Nope, not at all.

MrPudding wrote: »

In before the Run_to_da_hills.
MrP

:pac:

Wicknight wrote: »

Anywhoo, I've always wondered is the mark of the beast actually associated with fear of technology in the Bible..

There's a fear of technology in the Bible?

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

Its not the symbol for 6, it just looks a bit like the symbol for 6, but it has a different meaning.

Anywhoo, I've always wondered is the mark of the beast actually associated with fear of technology in the Bible, or is that just what people in modern types associate it with? Could the mark of the beast be literally a magical mark, nothing to do with technology? Or is technology referenced in the Bible itself?

I would say, its just folk speculating. Even the folk that go in for the barcode or RFID conspiracies, don't do it out of 'fear of technology', but rather out of jumping the gun and wanting to know what the mark is. Sure, read it yourself below. Notice the word 'Forced'. Also notice where the mark will be recieved. Also notice it represents the name of the beast OR the number of its name. I certainly see nothing about 'fear of technology', but maybe you were trying to be belittling with that term.

Revelation 13 wrote:

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Zombrex

StealthRolex wrote: »

You should try reading the Bible sometime. Where is this "fear of technology" of which you speak?

Er, that was my question.

Why does everyone associate the mark of the beast with technology? Is that in the Bible (your some what ironic response would seem to suggest no)?

prinz

Wicknight wrote: »

Why does everyone associate the mark of the beast with technology?

Technology was only useful until tin foil was invented . After that - all down hill.

Wicknight wrote: »

Is that in the Bible (your some what ironic response would seem to suggest no)?

No. Nothing has ever suggested a fear of technology to me anyway.

Zombrex

prinz wrote: »

There's a fear of technology in the Bible?

That is what I'm asking.

The mark of the Beast in modern times is nearly always associated with technology as an excuse to be afraid of it. Oooow, bar code scanners are evil, ooow RFID chips carry the mark of the beast. they are going to be used to round up your children and kill your grand parents (along with Obama-care)

Is there any actual Biblical support for this, is the mark of the beast associated with technology, or with a fear of technology, in the Bible?

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

I certainly see nothing about 'fear of technology'

Really? It seem in this day and age it is always associated with technology and the dangers of it. Soul Winners post is over flowing with the dangers of technology, and that is before we get into Rfth's views.

As I thought and prinz seems to confirm, there seems to be zero Biblical bases for this, so I have to wonder about why all the picking on technology.

Anywhoo, just a pondering.

prinz

Wicknight wrote: »

The mark of the Beast in modern times is nearly always associated with technology as an excuse to be afraid of it. Oooow, bar code scanners are evil, ooow RFID chips carry the mark of the beast. they are going to be used to round up your children and kill your grand parents (along with Obama-care)

I think it's just a handy way of trying to rope in a few supporters IMO. Link it to the Beast and you'll get all sort of people to back you up. Like during I think every single referendum on Europe some issue or other has been dragged up solely, as far as I can see to tempt a certain mindset to throw their lot in with those opposing it.

Wicknight wrote: »

Is there any actual Biblical support for this, is the mark of the beast associated with technology, or with a fear of technology, in the Bible?

Not that I can think of anyway.

TravelJunkie

Soul Winner wrote: »

I know its been discussed before but just thought I'd spice things up around here

Has anyone any thoughts on the RFID / VeriChip?

It would seem that as the years roll by people are slowly but surely growing in their acceptance of such technology where it applies to security in the workplace, monitoring of children for safety purposes and for the old and sick in order to be able to keep tabs on them should they be in need of any help. All these applications are really good ideas and would benefit society on the whole. But I feel there is a very dark side to all this, one that is not within mankind's ability to control? I believe that we could be getting primed for acceptance of this technology for general everyday use like shopping, doctor visits, applying for driver's licenses and so on. I see it becoming compulsory due to its effectiveness in securing peace of mind for many in society. It's appeal is in its good applications but what of its bad ones? Will they outweigh the good in the end?

As a Christian do you think it bares all the hallmarks of the Mark of the Beast described in the Book of Revelation? Is it possible, that should this technology be introduced on a global scale that the prophesy regarding its effect come to pass? That no man can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast? It's pretty obvious to me that this will be the natural evolution of this technology after a while should it be accepted en mass.

i.e. It starts off as a good idea for the monitoruing of children, the sick and prisoners. Then as more and more acceptance is incurred, it is used in the work place for security reasons i.e nobody can steal your ID and use it to gain access to your workplace. It is then adapted by the medical profession and eventually for national security purposes become compulsory, and it tha happens eventually you won't be able to work, drive, travel abroad etc. Then eventually due to the security risk that carrying cash around involves it will eventually become the everyday choice of how to do credit transactions, buy groceries in supermarkets and what not. I have no trouble believing this at all.

If you don't believe that it is (or will become) the mark of the beast, would you be worried about it anyway? If so, can you explain your reasons please?

These questions are also directed at the Atheists and Agnostics but your responses should be civil and on stay on topic.

Personally I believe that if this is not the mark of the beast then it is surely a forerunner to it.

More on this here

I also believe the mark is the microchip. It is in use already in some parts and is on the hand or forehead.

I feel so strongly about it, that it would be my dying wish for my children never to have it inserted.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

Really? It seem in this day and age it is always associated with technology and the dangers of it.

I posted the scripture in question, what do you think?

Soul Winners post is over flowing with the dangers of technology, and that is before we get into Rfth's views.

Being wary, does not equate to 'afraid of technology'.
Being ignorant does not equate to 'afraid of technology'.

There is nothing to suggest that the mark will be technological, nor is there anything to suggest it wont be.

As I thought and prinz seems to confirm, there seems to be zero Biblical bases for this, so I have to wonder about why all the picking on technology.

Anywhoo, just a pondering.

There is biblical basis, Just nothing to say if it will be technological or not. The issue, is that some people assume they 'know' what the mark is, and it happens to be technological. I don't think this is born out of a need to curse technology, but more out of a want to be able to say, 'Thats the mark of the beast'. The fact that their claims are related to technology has little to do with technology, and more to do with the fact that there is nothing else they can say 'resembles' in any way, the mark.

I would imagine the thought process being a little like the following:

1. What could possibly be a mark you couldn't trade without etc, and how could you give it to an entire population?

*Watches TV*
'Today on beyond 2000'. We have an RFID chip. these can be inserted beneath the skin, and can store all our details. In the future we may never need a credit card, or passport etc etc etc'

2. 'Thats interesting', *thinks* 'Thats it! Can't trade or move without it. Its the mark!'

Now the above may have started with barcodes, and they began to realise that it probably wasn't the mark, but with that idea, their focus was diverted to the technological world, so that they keep on eye on every little thing that could be the mark. Some however go further, and declare with certainty that something is the mark.

At the end of the day, the mark could be technological, or it may not be. The Biblle indicates that there will be a mark FORCED on peoples RIGHT HAND or FOREHEAD. It doesn't speculate as to what this mark actually is.

the issue is not saying it could be technological, but rather declaring 'Its this or that' with the type of certainty that some folk do.

JimiTime

TravelJunkie wrote: »

I also believe the mark is the microchip. It is in use already in some parts and is on the hand or forehead.

Where is it used?
Is it FORCED on people?
Is it in the RIGHT hand or FOREhead?
Does it containg the NAME or NUMBER of the name?
Also, what is the beast and its name, and how does its name convert to 666?

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

I posted the scripture in question, what do you think?

I think the scripture is most likely talking about branding of people with a mark to identify them as property, something that would have been common in Roman times for slaves.

JimiTime wrote: »

Being wary, does not equate to 'afraid of technology'.
Being ignorant does not equate to 'afraid of technology'.

Agreed, but trying to link the mark to technological advance such as RFID tags and bar codes on the flimsiest of pretense seems to suggest a more general fear of technology, rather than fear of the mark of the beast.

People seem to find these concepts uncomfortable in of themselves, and then link (again on flimsy pretense) this to Revelations to justify this.

What has an RFID tag got to do with the number 666 even if it was embedded in your hand?

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

What has an RFID tag got to do with the number 666 even if it was embedded in your hand?

I don't know, you'd have to ask someone who believes its 'The Mark'.

Zombrex

TravelJunkie wrote: »

I also believe the mark is the microchip. It is in use already in some parts and is on the hand or forehead.

Can you expand on this?

Should probably clarify my interest in this, I'm an atheist but I've worked with RFID tags in the past. They are great, they solve a lot of problems from a technical point of view. I get nervous when religions or religious people start making proclamations about certain technologies as being evil or wrong

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

Can you expand on this?

Should probably clarify my interest in this, I'm an atheist but I've worked with RFID tags in the past. They are great, they solve a lot of problems from a technical point of view. I get nervous when religions or religious people start making proclamations about certain technologies as being evil or wrong

Even those who say its 'The Mark' aren't saying the technology is 'evil' etc though are they? Isn't it more about its application? I'm sure they wouldn't have an issue with someone putting an RFID into their prize greyhound, or even family pet etc. Like so much technology, the internet for example, Its amazing, and so useful. However, its also made it so easy to distribute child porn etc etc. I would imagine, its the application of technology rather than the technology itself that these folk take exception to.

prinz

TravelJunkie wrote: »

I also believe the mark is the microchip. It is in use already in some parts and is on the hand or forehead..

Or the left hand, or the arms, or the legs etc etc etc.

Wicknight wrote: »

I get nervous when religions or religious people start making proclamations about certain technologies as being evil or wrong

You don't need to be an atheist to feel that way but it equally applies to some non religious people who object to everything as being part of some big global major lizard man conspiracy or the likes. Oh, but despite what I said, fussball IS the devil!

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

Even those who say its 'The Mark' aren't saying the technology is 'evil' etc though are they?

No, more technology is evil so that is probably where the mark will end up. People seem more nervous about the idea of technology tracking than this actually being the mark of the beast

But you are right, I may be jumping the gun a bit, so I'll wait until either Soul Winner or TravelJunkie expand on what is it about the RFID tags or bar-codes that they are worried about.

Zombrex

prinz wrote: »

Or the left hand, or the arms, or the legs etc etc etc.



You don't need to be an atheist to feel that way but it equally applies to some non religious people who object to everything as being part of some big global major lizard man conspiracy or the likes. Oh, but despite what I said, fussball IS the devil!

yeah but the lizard people exist, just ask Jim Corr :P

lmaopml

Wicknight wrote: »

Can you expand on this?

Should probably clarify my interest in this, I'm an atheist but I've worked with RFID tags in the past. They are great, they solve a lot of problems from a technical point of view. I get nervous when religions or religious people start making proclamations about certain technologies as being evil or wrong

Sorry, but this made me pmsl :pac:...I don't blame you being a little tentative Wicknight of some conspiracy theories, even the ones in relation to the Apocalypse, but then they are allowed I guess - we have a whole forum on boards for em :eek: and some are far more menacing and immediate than those derived from the bible imo...

I think a lot of people believe that many of the events in the Apocalypse have already taken place, remembering John was writing symbolically to the seven churches etc. at the time...and the prominence of Ancient Rome too...

The number of the devil etc. has inspired some great movies too..lol...along with dante and his visions of hell, they peek our interest in the subject I suppose. I don't know enough to even begin to speculate; in fact I don't anybody really does...

...but it has an appeal too....I don't think anybody really knows 'when' or how. For me the over riding message of the bible is to be 'warned' to keep ready because nobody really knows when these symbols will finally make sense to us...and not to dwell on them, but to concentrate on growing in faith...

Still, the movies were great, and so too is reading up on all the different theories...:)

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

No, more technology is evil so that is probably where the mark will end up.

Sorry, just to clarify. You think these folk think this specific technology is evil in itself? OR are you saying these people think technology as a whole is evil?

StealthRolex

Wicknight wrote: »

That is what I'm asking.

The mark of the Beast in modern times is nearly always associated with technology as an excuse to be afraid of it. Oooow, bar code scanners are evil, ooow RFID chips carry the mark of the beast. they are going to be used to round up your children and kill your grand parents (along with Obama-care)

Is there any actual Biblical support for this, is the mark of the beast associated with technology, or with a fear of technology, in the Bible?

The knowledge of some atheists of Christianity appears to have been informed by some combination of fundamentalist websites and conspiracy websites with a peppering of atheist myths.

The Bible has nothing to say for or against technology or that the mark of the Beast will be technological. That is not to say that the mark may not ultimately be some form of scanable bar or puzzle code but it says it will be a mark or brand and therefore visible so that appears to exclude embedded chips.

The bottom line is it will be forced onto people. If you refuse it or avoid it you will not be able to buy or sell legally.

The choice will be simple and obvious - ally with the Beast or join the Christians.

StealthRolex

strobe wrote: »

There is already 666 in every single barcode. Check it out yourself, the 3 long, thin thickness, double lines at the beginning, middle and end that's on all the barcodes is the symbol for 6. I always thought that was cool, the way revelations talks about no one being able to trade without the number and it's actually there on pretty much anything you buy nowadays. Soon to be on most passports aswell. Turns out Lucifer is anything but subtle.

And what if the number is 616? What then for the Beastly Barcode ???

TravelJunkie

You asked me to clarify my position.

Well, the human identifacation system by microchip (not a techie so can't comment on the technology) is on trial in Australia and parts of the US. This is meeting resistance by various parties, including civil rights, etc.

Authorities on the subject predict national identity cards and a cashless society via human implanted microchips. But it's not failsafe at the moment.

My fear, if you call it that, is not of the microchip. But yes, because of the warning in revelation. My interpretation of the mark of the beast 666 is the running of a cashless society, which will evolve... (I remember a time before bar codes by the way).
from Barcodes into credit cards / chip and pin, then implantations for security reasons.

Already our bank accounts and passports are chipped (cashless society isn't far fetched).

a particular country's immigration loves the concept.

People can go ahead and get these, I won't. It won't happen in my lifetime but if it came to it, I would rather spend time in a kabutz or jail.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.