Political Correctness Gone Batty in UCC (mod#23)

mike65

I love these stories, Mods you may want to bump this over to Humanities or such like but I think the AH hoardes should have a chance to consider this and the madness that follows

Oral sex shocker lands UCC Prof in vat of hot water with HR nazis over sexual harrassment claim.

Dear Colleagues,

The President of University College Cork, Professor Michael Murphy, has imposed harsh sanctions on me for doing nothing more than showing an article from a peer-reviewed scientific article to a colleague.

The article was about fellatio in fruit bats. You can read it online at http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0007595

It was covered extensively in the media, including the Guardian - see http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/nov/10/oral-sex-bats-improbable-research

The colleague to whom I showed the article complained to HR that the article was upsetting. I had been engaged in an ongoing debate with the colleague in question about the relevance of evolutionary biology to human behaviour, and in particular about the dubiousness of many claims for human uniqueness. I showed it the colleague in the context of this discussion, and in the presence of a third person. I also showed the article to over a dozen other colleagues on the same day, none of whom objected.

HR launched a formal investigation. Despite the fact that external investigators concluded that I was not guilty of harassment, Professor Murphy has imposed a two-year period of intensive monitoring and counselling on me, and as a result my application for tenure is likely to be denied.

I am now campaigning to have the sanctions lifted. I would be grateful for your support on this matter. I have created an online petition at:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freedebate/

I'd be grateful if you sign the petition and ask your colleagues to do so. If you also felt like writing directly to the President of UCC, his address is:

Professor Michael Murphy
The President's Office
University College Cork
Cork

academic article about fruit bats sexual activities

sign the petition

So now this fella will be branded a pervert over nothing!

Oafley Jones

Listening to this on Pat Kenny now. It's absolutely bizarre, sets an extremely dangerous precedent and displays a shocking lack of common sense from U.C.C. Hope he takes them to the cleaners.

It wasn't me!

mike65 wrote: »

I love these stories, Mods you may want to bump this over to Humanities or such like but I think the AH hoardes should have a chance to consider this and the madness that follows

Oral sex shocker lands UCC Prof in vat of hot water with HR nazis over sexual harrassment claim.




academic article about fruit bats sexual activities

sign the petition

So now this fella will be branded a pervert over nothing!

Not over nothing. Over doing his actual job, because someone found the article "upsetting"? What does that even mean?! Someone needs to grow up; it's a mean old world and things are going to upset folk.

captainspeckle

That president Michael Murphy is a ****ing eijit. what kind of a moron would find an academic article upsetting? Jaysus someone needs to man up a little.

Banned Account

Only half the story here folks. What isn't mentioned is the fact that the colleague who was shown the article is actually Batwoman who was on a visiting fellowship from Gotham University and who quite rightfully took offence, in the same way as Catwoman sees David Attenborough in the same light as Larry Flint.

hidinginthebush

-Homer, I have a man here who can help.
-Batman?
-No, he's a scientist.
-Batman's a scientist...
-It's not Batman!

NothingMan

tl;dr?... Bats give head!

ejmaztec

There seems to be more to this than meets the eye. She obviously had it in for him, for some reason.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lecturer-fights-sanctions-after-showing-colleague-batsex-article-2182555.html

The Irish Independent has learned that the female colleague made two complaints about Dr Evans. One was about dealings and interactions with Dr Evans prior to November last year, and the other was about showing her the article.
Joke
The first was rejected but the second was upheld, although it was accepted that he showed her the article as a joke with sexual innuendo and it was not his intention to cause offence.
However, it was considered reasonable for her to be offended by being presented with the article while she was alone in her office.

Fuhrer

captainspeckle wrote: »

That president Michael Murphy is a ****ing eijit. what kind of a moron would find an academic article upsetting? Jaysus someone needs to man up a little.

Id be more concerned about the person who didnt think the idea of a bat getting a blow job wasnt upsetting...

Naos

Not exactly a free online petition if you have to donate money now is it?

captainspeckle

Fuhrer wrote: »

Id be more concerned about the person who didnt think the idea of a bat getting a blow job wasnt upsetting...

It was written in an article. Now if the bat was getting a blowjob right in front of her that would be a completely different story!

Gone Drinking

I got a boner when i was reading that article

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

There seems to be more to this than meets the eye. She obviously had it in for him, for some reason.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lecturer-fights-sanctions-after-showing-colleague-batsex-article-2182555.html

Indeed. It would be interesting to know what the first allegations were.

ScumLord

That articles misleading I have it from the offended partys.

The colleague to whom I showed my cock complained to HR that my cock was upsetting. I had been engaged in an ongoing debate with the colleague in question about the relevance of evolutionary biology to human behaviour, and in particular about the dubiousness of many claims for human uniqueness. I showed it the colleague in the context of this discussion, and in the presence of a third person, who was wearing a gimp suit and also had their cock out. I also showed my cock to over a dozen of the colleagues family members on the same day, none of whom objected, much. After they where sedated.

Dudess

I actually knew that guy a bit - worked in the same building as him. Seemed like a really decent person - very sad for him. He's quite a renowned academic, and mud sticks.

I know a girl in UCC whose classmate got "Black power" embroidered on his hoodie, so she jokingly, and good-naturedly, said "Oh I'll get 'White power' on mine". Formal complaint made against her and she got hauled in front of a committee.

UCC surely has bigger things to worry about than ensuring it tows the PC line - e.g. **** all money and a major staff shortage as a result.

Thoushaltnot

Yer right - we do only have one side of the story.

My first impression on reading this, was that what made sense was that Dr. Evans was perving on this woman for a while. I think we've all met the type - not so much what they say but how they say it and how the can be noticeably different when there are witnesses than from when there are none.

Maybe the complainant tried to ignore him for quite a while, not dignifying his trying to upset her, with a response - until one day he did something she could actually use as a basis for a complaint. Considering the update appended to the article in the Huffington Post :

"UPDATE: I just received the official documentation from Professor Evans. You can judge for yourself: http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/. While the accuser alleges more than the Fruit Bat article was at play, it was the incident that inspired the complaint, and which President Murphy targets in particular and in a very odd way. While the additional details are helpful I ultimately agree with the letter from the Irish Federation of University Teachers http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/ifut.pdf."

I've been in that situation myself, a long time ago. It turned out my colleague was isolating and harassing all the female staff (including a young female relative of the boss), unbeknownst to the rest of us but he'd brown nosed upper management so much that they couldn't believe he was intimidating/trying to intimidate us (not sure how they got wind of it, I think a female manager caught him in the act). They genuinely couldn't understand it. And it turned out that all of us tried "not to let him get to us", so none of us complained, so nothing was done.

Methinks the professor doth protest too much.

El Siglo

Messed up.

Oafley Jones

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Methinks the professor doth protest too much.

Because you should be totally cool about being branded a pervert?!?

El Siglo

If I was to choose any letter that sums up the incident well (i.e. a non-UCC party), it's this letter by IFUT.

ejmaztec

I'm sure that if we had a pic of the woman, we could decide whether we back Dr Evans or not, and I think that having a good tastefully posed photo is crucial to AH's online deliberations.

genericguy

my housemate was the reviewer for that scientific paper before it was published. he showed it to me, and i've been deeply scarred ever since. i now feel i may need to sue him as i now need many, many fcuuking years of therapy.

No, hang on a second, i don't need any therapy at all.

whoever reported that is an attention seeking cnut, and yes, by all accounts, so is the president of UCC.

Busi_Girl08

The lack of witnesses speaks volumes.

As does her husband's position in the university. :rolleyes:

It's said that he was applying for a tenure. Is she a professor aswell? Could she be competing with him for the same position?

Eliminating competition and all that?

biko

There is already a thread in UCC on this.

The actual complaint
http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/c1.jpg
http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/c2.jpg
These are from the petition.

People, please be mindful that it's very likely that the parties involved as well as their family and friends will read this thread. If you cross the line you may be banned and/or post removed. Respect others, thanks.

Bazzy

atari jaguar DEFO

pickarooney

I read the whole thing through from begining to end (article, complaints, findings, appeals...). It's riddled with disineguity and there's a lot more to it than a colleague being offended by a scientific article. It's impossible to tell exactly what's going on but it seems as though there is a long-lasting simmering feud between the parties and the university is behind the female lecturer for whatever reason (e.g. the guy is a certifiable slimeball or they want an excuse not to give him tenure).

SugarHigh

biko wrote: »

There is already a thread in UCC on this.

The actual complaint
http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/c1.jpg
http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/c2.jpg
These are from the petition.

People, please be mindful that it's very likely that the parties involved as well as their family and friends will read this thread. If you cross the line you may be banned and/or post removed. Respect others, thanks.

She sounds absolutely ridiculous:eek:

Bazzy

She went out with him for dinner with her hubby and she's giving out about it in a letter i know what i'd tell her!

Pittens

The bit of hugging, or kissing that went on when parting at the restaurant is not the Universities business, nor is it illegal, nor harassment.

What she could have done is tell him to stop. That should be the rule.

Get it in email if you have to: Say " Dr. Evans. I am a bit uncomfortable with bat felatio and any sexual references". Some women are upset. Some women aren't. She could then send an email to him ( to him: alone) confirming this. Any other sexual references could honestly then be the seen as harassment. It is all about context.

However, as usual with these kind of laws the idea of "mens rea", guilty mind, once a fundamental cornerstone of justice, is not applied anymore. The woman is harassed if he says she is, regardless of intent.

In the office where I work the girls regularly talk about sex and there was a long running ( and, admittedly, trite) blow job joke last week. Of course a normal office is not academia, and has less of the timid souls who lock themselves away from the world in tenured occupations. Also they are Australian.

The White Power one is interesting. A commentator on the the recent Twitter joke case on the Guardian mentioned he was pulled over for 6 hours by immigration in the US. He had Scottish Power on his Tee Shirt.

Scottish Power is an electricity company.

Caoimhín

pickarooney wrote: »

It's impossible to tell exactly what's going on but it seems as though there is a long-lasting simmering feud between the parties and the university is behind the female lecturer for whatever reason (e.g. the guy is a certifiable slimeball or they want an excuse not to give him tenure).

I think you are right, there seems to be more to this.

Biggins

I'm just confused by the whole thing!

Banned Account

Biggins wrote: »

I'm just confused by the whole thing!

It's to do with a type of sexing Biggins, but the girl bat uses her mouth instead of her ...



... PM me, i'll send you a link;)

Blitzkrieger

What sort of closed minded twits teach at UCC? I'm thinking of doing a phd atm. Don't think I'll be applying there....

Lemegeton

Pittens wrote: »

In the office where I work the girls regularly talk about sex, and there was a long running ( and, admittedly, trite) blow job joke last week. Of course a normal office is not academia, and has less of the timid souls who lock themselves away from the world in tenured occupations. Also they are Australian.

that is in an office environment involving several parties and clearly you have an open environment. that is not the same as going into a womans office uninvited and bringing up the subject of sex.
my initial reaction was that the woman was overly PC and should grow up but it sounds like the guy is a tool IMO.

Pittens

that is not the same as going into a womans office uninvited and bringing up the subject of sex.

It does depend on the person, of course. Yes, our environment is open, but I dont think the women here - all < 25 - would be shocked by any sexual talk, although I hold my tongue just in case.

Anyway, small company. I think that he could have been flirting with her ( however weirdly), but maybe not. I also think that it isnt harrassment unless the "harrasser' is informed about it. If he continues, it is.

Sometimes the difference between what a woman considers harassment, and not, is the attractiveness or the Alpha Male-ness of the guy flirting with her.

In my last company a particularly strange girl broke off contact with a guy who no longer worked there, because he left her a Christmas card ( by calling to her house and dropping it off).

Eventually she ended up with a guy she met in a pub. Presumably she saw the first "come-on" - which it wasn't - as harrasment because she didn't like the guy in question. The second guy who clearly made some advances, was not harrassing her because she did like him.

Thats tough on the beta males. And very few academics are Alpha Males.

Lemegeton

i take your point and the woman should not have filed a complaint if she never informed the guy directly he made her uncomfortable. so she is to blame in that respect. it just seems a lot of posts are assuming that she is an overly PC woman who is over-reacting , when the guy could be a prick and her only mistake was not telling him to **** off in the first place.

Ri_Nollaig

Lemegeton wrote: »

woman was overly PC and should grow up but it sounds like the guy is a tool IMO.

I'd say it is a combination of both to be honest.

El Siglo

Lemegeton wrote: »

that is in an office environment involving several parties and clearly you have an open environment. that is not the same as going into a womans office uninvited and bringing up the subject of sex.
my initial reaction was that the woman was overly PC and should grow up but it sounds like the guy is a tool IMO.

I thought this too.
But after reading the report by the investigator, after reading the emails the lecturer sent to the president and the letter from the president to the lecturer and the letter from IFUT, the complaint letter, I think this situation is messed up. Here's my summation (might be wrong but it's just an opinion).
The first charge was that he was acting like a creep with the female lecturer, the hugs, coming into her office, being pervy in general etc... this is the bit that I had my doubts about regarding his innocence (i.e. I would have considered this to be the big issue), but he was cleared of this.
The second charge being the bat bj article, this is absolute nonsense. It's a scientific, peer-reviewed article, he was as the letters go discussing an argument in animal evolution, it'd be like talking about how dolphins are the only other mammal that have sex for pleasure (like humans), no way could this be harassment, it wasn't even meant in a joking fashion according to himself. The bit that gets me is that there was someone else present in the room while he was showing her the article, where are they in all of this? I mean who would act like a creep in front of someone else like this? Also didn't he not show it to ten other people, how would they characterise his behaviour in all of this?
To be fair, I don't care what happens to him but I can't see from the letters where or what he's supposed to be guilty off? It's all very circumstantial. Also, does it not strike anyone as odd that if he was a pervert, creeping on female lecturer, wouldn't he be not reprimanded on this more than the article? He was reprimanded on the one incident, surely if it's sexual harassment he should have been done for the creeping?
The whole situation appears very odd. If he was a total pervert, why would the head of IFUT be writing to the President of UCC (who would want to be seen defending a pervert in such a minor matter that should have been kept in UCC?).

Pittens

Lemegeton

I agree that going into here office with the story is a bit suspect.

Nodin

Going on about Casanova really would have been the thing to slap him over, IMO. It would seem he has a knack for spin doctoring.

FlutterinBantam

How can you say that?

What evidence do you have?

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

How can you say that?

What evidence do you have?

Well, if you bothered your arse reading the thread and following links supplied......

Dudess

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

What sort of closed minded twits teach at UCC? I'm thinking of doing a phd atm. Don't think I'll be applying there....

It's overall a good (and big) college - don't let one incident put you off.

FlutterinBantam

I have read the thread pal.

How can you say he has a knack for spin doctoring or what actually what his intentions were?

Were you the third person int he room?

rubensni

Dudess wrote: »

It's overall a good (and big) college - don't let one incident put you off.

The College President was involved in the disciplinary proceedings, so it sounds like this is systematic. This decision will have a chilling effect on academic debate involving sex and sexuality in UCC.

The Equality Acts define sexual harassment as any form of 'unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature' which 'has the purpose or effect of violating a person’s dignity and creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for the person'.

Now if it's the President's view that raising an article that deals with sex or sexuality in animals as part of an academic discussion amounts to harassment what hope for someone who is having a serious discussion about human sexuality in the mere presence of another? If UCC doesn't row back on this a nasty precedent will be set as in reality the definition in law is so broad that anything to do with sex or sexuality and it will be open season for a harassment claim

The college should have backed this man, not upheld the complaint, and let her take her chances in the Equality Tribunal if she was genuinely upset.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I have read the thread pal.

How can you say he has a knack for spin doctoring or what actually what his intentions were?

Were you the third person int he room?

I'm not your "pal".

I suggest reading the reports linked earlier. If nothing dawns on you from that then theres nothing I can do for you.

FlutterinBantam

I have read them.

How can anyone pass judgment on those reports.

Is it because the man seems to be from the UK the t you reach your 'conclusion' or were you the third person in the room?

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I have read them.

How can anyone pass judgment on those reports.

Quite easily.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Is it because the man seems to be from the UK

Not at all, nor was I aware that he was. Why would you think that?

FlutterinBantam

Nodin wrote: »

Quite easily.



Not at all, nor was I aware that he was. Why would you think that?

Most reasonable posters on this thread seem to be of the opinion that this situation is impossible to decide on, based on the evidence supplied, including myself.
yet you seem to reach an opinion very easily.

Call it a hunch;)

reprazant

Nodin wrote: »

Going on about Casanova really would have been the thing to slap him over, IMO. It would seem he has a knack for spin doctoring.

He was reading a book on Casanova at the time.

It does not say how it came up in conversation. Maybe somebody asked him about the book and what his opinion of Casanova was from reading it, and he said he admired his ability to sleep with thousands of women, from all over Europe and his ability at gambling.

It is hard to tell how it came up because the complainant bizarrely also seemed to take offence at the fact that he liked to gamble.

Carlos_Ray

I was amazed by the article. I had no idea that Cork had a University.

Ah bless

jimmycrackcorm

There's something odd about someone who is into fruitbats.