summoned for uninsudred driving

mickdw

What happens if you crashed into someone OP? Happy to let everyone else pay? Makes me sick tbh. Then to come on here saying you were on your way to get tax & insurance at the time means you are just thinking that you are taking everyone for fools. Certainly a ban should be applied but the way things are, it will be a fine I would say.
Anyway, someone who will drive around for 3 months without insurance will most likely drive whether their licence is taken or not. Of course you wouldnt be insured if banned from holding a licence but that is unlikely to trouble the OP

WIZE

mickdw wrote: »

What happens if

It didn't so why suggest it

I know it looks like I agree with OP . I dont but still they are asking for Advise

Should be a new thread opened in R&R

Cookie_Monster

swe_fi wrote: »

There was 5 cases on very similar to mine (no excuse, but got insurance the following day or 2). All got a €500 fine but no ban. The cop who stopped you will be in court and read a little story about how he stopped you most likely.

why are they all getting away with this then?

That's shocking, and lets be honest €500 quid is hardly a deterrent.

Obviously the cost of crashing should be a deterrent but these people clearly don't think of that anyway. It should be a mandatory minimum term ban, there is no excuse, period.

amiable

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why are they all getting away with this then?

That's shocking, and lets be honest €500 quid is hardly a deterrent.

Obviously the cost of crashing should be a deterrent but these people clearly don't think of that anyway. It should be a mandatory minimum term ban, there is no excuse, period.

Why are people surprised by this?
This isn't a dig at you..... I'm just surprised that people are surprised that its happening if the punishment isn't a deterrent

Lando Griffin

OP. Dont take the advise of the person who attended court without a solicitor, sometimes the Judge hearing an unrepresented case will have a very low opinion on the defandant, ie. as if you couldn't be bothered making an effert hence showing disregard for the procedures of the courts and the seriousness of the offence in question. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/motor-tax-and-insurance/motor_insurance

Reads.

You must have motor insurance to drive a car in your own name or as a named driver on someone else's policy.

Failure to have motor insurance or driving without insurance in Ireland is generally punishable by:

• A fine of up to €2,500
• Disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and
• At the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year.
Since 1 June 2003, where the courts in Ireland decide not to impose a disqualification, drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.
If you commit a second offence for driving without insurance, you will be automatically disqualified from driving. You should also note, that where a member of An Garda Síochána (Irish police force) believes that a vehicle registered in Ireland (or outside Ireland) is being used in a public place without insurance, the vehicle may be impounded.

swe_fi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why are they all getting away with this then?

That's shocking, and lets be honest €500 quid is hardly a deterrent.

Obviously the cost of crashing should be a deterrent but these people clearly don't think of that anyway. It should be a mandatory minimum term ban, there is no excuse, period.

Don't know, leniency from the Judge? I know the law, I was wrong, I got caught, just sharing my experience & my take on it. I don't even know if this is representative for the whole of Ireland. For me at least I can say the €650 and going to court will certainly act as a deterrent for the future. Thinking back, it actually ended up costing me about €1000 with impound and stuff.

furtzy

WTF? :eek: I'm shocked €500 and no ban thats a joke. I thought you were supposed to get 5 points as well for this

JCJCJC

OP - go see a solicitor, don't leave it to picking one at random on the day of court. Choose a solicitor who appears routinely in that court anyway, it keeps costs down. Discuss costs with the solicitor and if you find the cost proposals prohibitive ask the solicitor to apply for free legal aid on your behalf and engage the solicitor subject to getting it. You will need evidence of your means in court for the judge to consider in relation to your application for free legal aid. The case will not be automatically adjourned as an earlier poster suggests- that happens when the solicitor is picked from the bench and needs time to take instructions.

On the deterrent value of fines...Lord, people really have no idea how this country operates. Let's just say I'm a reasonably charitable individual but I don't give anything to the V de P in the better interests of having a functional justice system.

The garda who is alleging your offence will give sworn evidence in court and may be cross-examined by your solicitor, or even yourself. They may consult notes as an aide-memoire but the evidence is what they say - it's not supposed to be reading a story.

If you really did tax and insure the car on the same day, bring the supporting paperwork in full and have your solicitor offer it in mitigation. It won't show that you didn't commit the offence obviously, but it is really good for mitigation of the punishment, taken with your current poor financial circumstances. Take your solicitor's advice on entering a guilty plea from the outset, and confining your case to mitigation, it would work with some district judges. If you have a clean legal record to date be sure to say that too and emphasise the importance of maintaining that in connection with your job-seeking efforts.

Don't be put down by the adverse comments you are getting. Get a haircut on the day, wear a tie and be deferential to the judge. Meet the guard before court and briefly apologise, so that your solicitor can say that for you. Don't ever make a written statement to the gardai unless your solicitor has drafted it for you in connection with this or anything else. Ask your solicitor about the Probation Act.

Good luck.

JC

bijapos

^ 39 posts in and JCJC has it in a nutshell. Take JC's advice OP.

JCJCJC

bijapos wrote: »

^ 39 posts in and JCJC has it in a nutshell. Take JC's advice OP.

It's just law. It's not rocket surgery ;-)

JC

Abelloid

Barname wrote: »

en route to buy Insurance and Tax your car you were stopped?

Here is some advice; dont try that one on the Judge.

Sorry OP, but I agree - I really don't think the judge will accept that.

TheNog

JCJCJC wrote: »

Im sorry ? - I've been working in courts for over thirty years and I've seen children in court innumerable times, including babies-in-arms. Can you post a url to a statutory provision that says that, I would be very interested.

If you were bringing a personal injuries action on behalf of a child who for example suffered significant and disfiguring facial scarring due to the negligence of another party and you wanted damages on that ground, how would you propose showing the evidence to the court?

At law, a child is a person under 18 who is or has not been married as I understand it. Can none of those attend court even if only as a member of the general public in the gallery, in exercise of the constitutional provision that justice be done in public?

JC

Most judges that I have been in court with dont allow children in court unless of course the child part of any proceedings. To have a baby in court where the child could cry would not be in the OP's favour should it annoy the judge.

There is nothing to say children should not be in court but I think any good parent would not expose a child to it. I know it is rare but I have seen violence in court. Im sure you have too.

swe_fi

You have some good points there JC, but in fact my solicitor said that 5/6 cases (like mine) are not being disqualified given you have no previous. I'm not saying you are wrong in your advice, solicitor might be the best way to go. I'm sure / i think you are right about apologizing to the cop but I still find that strange that such a thing would matter. The thing about looking smart, same thing there it is true but strange.

JCJCJC

swe_fi wrote: »

You have some good points there JC, but in fact my solicitor said that 5/6 cases (like mine) are not being disqualified given you have no previous. I'm not saying you are wrong in your advice, solicitor might be the best way to go. I'm sure / i think you are right about apologizing to the cop but I still find that strange that such a thing would matter. The thing about looking smart, same thing there it is true but strange.

Smart Dublin-based senior counsel will often make legal jokes about justice in rural Ireland being 'palm-tree justice', ie comparable to an african village. There's a grain of truth in it though. District Justices have wide discretion in how they apply the law, and there isn't total consistency in how offences are treated in every district, particularly in relation to sentencing policy. Same applies in the Circuit Court. I have some sympathy with them. The endless, endless parade of misery and miscreants they must face every day would break the strongest person. I am occasionally in Limerick city court on a Monday morning, and to see what has been arrested over a weekend and brought before the court would make you afraid to walk the same streets as them. And the crowd of their supporters in the body of court look every bit as undesirable usually.
A judge has a few minutes to form an impression of the defendant and the credibility of his case. What law calls 'the demeanour of the witness' is all the judge has to go on, but if they had any self-doubt about their ability to make a decision on that basis they wouldn't get past the first ten cases. So, if our OP from Galway turns up in ripped denims, 'orrible trainers, t-shirt and tattoos, chews gum, reeks of fags and has enough body piercings to go into the scrap business, the judge is going to say the quicker you sit down again, hombre, the better. However, if he appears respectful to the court, the law and the process, the judge might just give him the one-in-fifty break he needs. Every lawyer in the country, and maybe in the world, will say 'it depends on the judge you draw on the day' and it does. Hence my general advice - organise your paperwork, see a solicitor who is not antagonistic to the judge by default, present yourself as if it were a job interview, don't waste court time and look contrite and respectful, trust your solicitor to present your best case.

JC

Edit: Google 'palm-tree justice' if you doubt me.

marc.

thank you for all the answers. I didn't mention that I had a motor tax application stamped by Gardai with a date of 2 days before I was stopped.

nevertheless, the judge believed my explanation and fined me e100 without imposing driving ban. solicitor's fee was another e100 (seems they didn't want to charge me more than the fine), so it makes e200 in total which I am happy with

Cookie_Monster

:mad: another light sentenced failure for the Irish Judicial system.

Boskowski

You were driving 3 months with different cars with no insurance.

You deserve to be off the road. Big time. Can't believe you got away so lightly.

JCJCJC

That's a good news from you Marc, hope you learnt something in the process. You're not the biggest lawbreaker in the country so you didn't get the biggest sanction either. €100 for the solicitor was well spent, you weren't overdone at that.

JC

mikemac

swe_fi wrote: »

There was one girl who DID get a ban she had a translator and a really really really bad english solicitor who literally made every single error you can make, (He called the judge "Maam"!) it was entertaining to watch but pity for her. In fairness she made up some bs story so that + the useless solicitor got her a 12 month ban. Another thing was she never got insured after the incident. This was in Galway, Dublin may be different. I'm sure it varies from Judge to Judge as well.

Judge Fahy in Galway?
An iron lady, not someone you want to annoy in her court

marc. wrote: »

nevertheless, the judge believed my explanation and fined me e100 without imposing driving ban. solicitor's fee was another e100 (seems they didn't want to charge me more than the fine), so it makes e200 in total which I am happy with

That is so light it's a joke!
I got a bigger fine then that for not paying my TV licence
I hold my hands up, did the crime, apologized in court and paid my fine but you were driving three months without insurance, I thought sentancing was supposed to fair and proportionate :mad:

Henry Ford III

Fine was pretty low, but as OP said the Judge seems to have listened to the plea for leniency.

p.s. OP what happens your insurance now? Did you inform the insurer about the pending prosecution? How many penalty points did you get?

JCJCJC

I've re-read the OP's OP carefully. He never said he drove for three months without insurance. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't - don't assume it unless he says it. He said his insurance ran out and he changed cars. That doesn't say he drove uninsured.

JC

Cookie_Monster

JCJCJC wrote: »

Empathy is the heart of mercy. ‘Empathy’ is the capacity to ‘feel how others feel’

Empathy has no place in the courts system, save for victims and their families

Cabaal

Desperate that you got fined so little, driving without insurance...you should have been put off the road.

You are a risk to yourself and others,

keithclancy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Empathy has no place in the courts system, save for victims and their families

What Victims ?

Would Insurance have saved lives ?

Guy:Incognito

I didnt read the OP as driving around for 3 months without insurance just the day caught. But it's irrelevant tbh and the law doesnt take in to account how long you might have been commiting the offence prior to being caught seeing as they cant determine that, So in most cases it's the fact that X person was caught on X day with no insurance.

The punishment was way too lenient.

Also this thing of punishments beign less because people then went and got their insurance/nct/ tax etc is a load of crap. Of course anyone with a brain is going to run out and get them once caught. That doesnt prove they had any intention before that.

JCJCJC

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Empathy has no place in the courts system, save for victims and their families

Didn't you ever hear of Chancery, the conscience of the King? Still good Irish law as far as I know, in fact it's one of the four courts. If there was no mercy in the legal system, a basic laptop could replace all our judges.

JC.

Guy:Incognito

JCJCJC wrote: »

Didn't you ever hear of Chancery, the conscience of the King? Still good Irish law as far as I know, in fact it's one of the four courts. If there was no mercy in the legal system, a basic laptop could replace all our judges.

JC.

If the judges gave proper punishments we wouldnt have to consider replacing them with laptops.

Mena

Cabaal wrote: »

Desperate that you got fined so little, driving without insurance...you should have been put off the road.

You are a risk to yourself and others,

I'm probably being pedantic here, but I've never understood this sentiment. Fine, what he did was wrong, and maybe deserved far greater sanction than was received, but how exactly is he a risk to himself and others?

Based on what? More so than an insured person? Hell, I'd say someone driving uninsured would (all things being equal) drive more carefully for fear of being caught or involved in a minor accident that could end up costing them thousands.

oldyouth

Mena wrote: »

I'm probably being pedantic here, but I've never understood this sentiment. Fine, what he did was wrong, and maybe deserved far greater sanction than was received, but how exactly is he a risk to himself and others?

Based on what? More so than an insured person? Hell, I'd say someone driving uninsured would (all things being equal) drive more carefully for fear of being caught or involved in a minor accident that could end up costing them thousands.

An uninsured driver is showing no respect for the laws of the land, laws of the road and generally giving the 2 fingers to road users that may suffer financial loss (at best) in the event of an accident.

Such a person probably has the same disregard for other aspects of the laws in relation to driving, such as speeding or drink driving. Please don't make out the practice of driving witout insurance sound reasonable in any way

Mena

oldyouth wrote: »

An uninsured driver is showing no respect for the laws of the land, laws of the road and generally giving the 2 fingers to road users that may suffer financial loss (at best) in the event of an accident.

Such a person probably has the same disregard for other aspects of the laws in relation to driving, such as speeding or drink driving. Please don't make out the practice of driving witout insurance sound reasonable in any way

We're talking about the case at hand, as posted by the OP. Gain some perspective here.

If we were talking about uninsured drivers in general, I may even agree with you, but I was not.