Two boys aged 10, 11 found guilty of attempted rape of girl, 8.

bazmaiden

Just seen this on Sky News, sounds horrible

Here's a snippet

An eight-year-old girl clutched a teddy bear as she told police in a taped interview how she was raped by two 10-year-old boys, a court has heard.

the girl said one of the boys had thrown her scooter into the bush.

She said: "They said if I didn't pull down my pants, they won't get my scooter from the bush."

Yet later it emerged that the were found guilty:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64N34A20100524

"What this case is about is not a serious crime. It is about children," said defence lawyer Linda Strudwick, representing the older boy. "There is a game called 'You show me yours and I'll show you mine'.

"Maybe it went too far, maybe it went to touching, maybe they were doing something they had seen on television, maybe they were playing that age-old game, doctors and nurses."

Chetna Patel, for the younger boy, said the prosecution evidence had focussed on "bad behaviour, being naughty, messing around" rather than rape.

The boys, who cannot be named because of their age, will be sentenced in two months after reports are prepared.

Here's the full Link

I can't believe that two 10 year olds would do this to someone



MOD EDIT
Later today it arose that the girl was in fact not telling the truth.
Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8680370.stm

An eight-year-old girl alleged to have been sexually assaulted by two 10-year-olds has told the Old Bailey that the boys did not rape her.

She said she had lied to her mother about what had happened because she had been "naughty" and was worried she would not get any sweets.

The girl was allegedly attacked in a field in west London in October 2009.

The boys, now aged 10 and 11, each deny two charges of rape and two charges of attempted rape of a child under 13.

In cross-examination by defence counsel, the girl admitted that she had voluntarily been playing with the boys and had pulled her own underwear down while the boys exposed themselves to her.

orourkeda

Jesus wept.

The problem here is the liberal do gooders will stop justice being servd.

mike65

Saw that yesterday. If you ever needed a case to illustate how bad kids are made not born, this is it.

bazmaiden

mike65 wrote: »

Saw that yesterday. If you ever needed a case to illustate how bad kids are made not born, this is it.

It's the nature/nurture debate isn't it

Bazzy

kill them straight away. You'd never be able to change them get rid there vile!

davyjose

mike65 wrote: »

Saw that yesterday. If you ever needed a case to illustate how bad kids are made not born, this is it.

I dunno, some people are just evil. There's too much mitigation offered these days, too many excuses. These two have committed worse than has been committed to them. Sometimes it just comes down to the fact that these are two evil little scumbags.

dr.bollocko

orourkeda wrote: »

Jesus wept.

The problem here is the liberal do gooders will stop justice being servd.

genericguy wrote: »

to anyone who's gonna say that these two pricks should be given a chance to be rehabilitated, fcuk you in advance.

Can we leave out the flame baiting at least until there's somebody to argue against.

WindSock

Jesus, the poor child. Where the fk did those boys learn to do a thing like that. I refuse to believe it was an instinct to satisfy a sexual urge.

Edit: ehh, I guess it were just childhood curiosity, innit.

orourkeda

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Can we leave out the flame baiting at least until there's somebody to argue against.

We'll wait for the do gooders to arrive so.

mikom

bazmaiden wrote: »

"They said if I didn't pull down my pants, they won't get my scooter from the bush."

Worst choice of quote eveeeeer.

jimmycrackcorm

genericguy wrote: »

to anyone who's gonna say that these two pricks should be given a chance to be rehabilitated, fcuk you in advance.

Go on, give them a chance to rehabilitate.

cian1500ww

It wouldn't surprise me if both boys were victims of sexual assault, where else would they get the idea to do something like that...

orourkeda

WindSock wrote: »

Jesus, the poor child. Where the fk did those boys learn to do a thing like that. I refuse to believe it was an instinct to satisfy a sexual urge.

How could it be. I wouldnt claim to be an expert in child sexuality but how many 10 year old children need to satisfy sexual urges.

HalloweenJack

I'm sorry but ten-year-olds? It's a complete mind****.

I don't know how anyone can approach this case.

aDeener

bazmaiden wrote: »

Just seen this on Sky News, sounds horrible

Here's a snippet







Here's the full Link

I can't believe that two 10 year olds would do this to someone

you obviously never heard of jon venables and robert thompson, 10 year olds are capable of quite a bit

orourkeda

cian1500ww wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if both boys were victims of sexual assault, where else would they get the idea to do something like that...

I just had the exact same thought. I doubt you average 10 year old has even started to develop sexually let alone develop urges and theres even less chance they would be screwed up enough to commit rape without something like this having happened

antodeco

Chemically castrate them. If they are like this when they are 10, when real hormones kick in, they will be monsters. With some extra strength in them as men, they will do alot worse. Burn them for all I care. Yes, they are someones children, but burn them. They can only get worse. :mad:

yop

Jesus that is incredible to read that. What sort of mentality does it take for a 10 year old kid to do this.

I presume they will wheel out the usual excuses ADHD, SAD, IBS, GAA and every other acronym that they can find to get them off this.

What can you do with kids like this?

I can imagine what the parent(s) are like!!!

Shocking.

bazmaiden

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I'm sorry but ten-year-olds? It's a complete mind****.

I don't know how anyone can approach this case.

Its gonna be very difficult case for all involved, but i would be very surprised if those two boys aren't already known by social services already.

The chances of those two being abused in the past is very likely

sron

davyjose wrote: »

I dunno, some people are just evil. There's too much mitigation offered these days, too many excuses. These two have committed worse than has been committed to them. Sometimes it just comes down to the fact that these are two evil little scumbags.

I was at a lecture a while ago on the nature of evil and the speaker was asked about the notion of being born evil. He made a good point that if you say someone is congenitally evil, then you absolve them of all culpability. If one is born evil, then it's no more their fault than being born tall or short, and so to punish them harshly would be unfair.

Duggy747

:eek:

What

The

Fùck!?!

It could become clear 2 lads were abused in some form, 10 year olds just don't have this mindset.............then again, there are some kids that just do evil things that baffle the mind. Fùck.

orourkeda

sron wrote: »

I was at a lecture a while ago on the nature of evil and the speaker was asked about the notion of being born evil. He made a good point that if you say someone is congenitally evil, then you absolve them of all culpability. If one is born evil, then it's no more their fault than being born tall or short, and so to punish them harshly would be unfair.

Is whether you'e born evil or not really relevant. Isn't the whole point that the punishment should fit the crime and not whether you were born evil or not.

WindSock

orourkeda wrote: »

How could it be. I wouldnt claim to be an expert in child sexuality but how many 10 year old children need to satisfy sexual urges.

I agree that sexuality is normal in children. Knowing how to satisfy those urges by manipulating and raping a younger child isn't though. But then again I suppose kids can be capable of anything. Perhaps one of them had the idea to use the girl for this and the other followed. I am just curious as to how he or they came to the solution of rape.

Banned Account

I blame that egyptian anti rape poster - no one with lollipops is safe these days ...

Sid_Justice

Quite shocked, it's difficult to imagine 10 year olds committing such a serious act of violent and a sexual assault. While it's not completely unheard of for children of this age to be involved in some kind of inappropriate behaviour regarding genitalia and nudity it is quite startling to imagine such young boys commit rape.

sron

orourkeda wrote: »

Is whether you'e born evil or not really relevant. Isn't the whole point that the punishment should fit the crime and not whether you were born evil or not.

I don't believe anyone is born evil myself, so it's irrelevant to me. But if you do believe it, you're punishing someone for something they could never prevent. Of course they couldn't be absolved completely as they might do it again, but a life sentence in a maximum security prison would be unfair.

orourkeda

WindSock wrote: »

I agree that sexuality is normal in children. Knowing how to satisfy those urges by manipulating and raping a younger child isn't though. But then again I suppose kids can be capable of anything. Perhaps one of them had the idea to use the girl for this and the other followed. I am just curious as to how he or they came to the solution of rape.

Surely not every 10 year old is sexually capable

The_Minister

I'll stick my neck out and say that I don't think two ten-year-old boys can really understand what rape is, or the effects of it.

They probably saw something on tv, didn't understand what they saw (obviously, they probably knew what sex was, but none of the social behaviour that goes with it), and went out and copied it.

Emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

orourkeda

sron wrote: »

I don't believe anyone is born evil myself, so it's irrelevant to me. But if you do believe it, you're punishing someone for something they could never prevent. Of course they couldn't be absolved completely as they might do it again, but a life sentence in a maximum security prison would be unfair.

But the criminal justice dictates that all cases are proved beyond reasonable doubt based on the evidence provided.

Surelt whether you are born evil or not is an academic or hypothetical argument at this point.

--Kaiser--

"The woman went to see the boys' parents who were not in but she spotted the older boy."

I would have murdered him on the spot

Standard Toaster

Personally, I blame the parents, on both sides. The victim, whose just 8, was playing with her younger sister, obviously un-supervised. Kids that young should be always within earshot imho. When I was that age the front garden is as fair I was allowed to play. In all likeyhood the boy's background probably leaves alot to be desired, but we're all just spectualting. I wonder what dvd or videogame they'll try and blame this on this time round eh?

Does remind me of Jon Venables and Robert Thompson alright. These kids will never be 'normal'. Sure Jon Venables was accused in March this year of a of a 'serious sex offence' and is back behind bars.

Anyway, horrible ordeal for the young girl. That's her childhood destroyed

bronte

That is the sickest thing I've heard in quite some time.

orourkeda

The_Minister wrote: »

I'll stick my neck out and say that I don't think two ten-year-old boys can really understand what rape is, or the effects of it.

They probably saw something on tv, didn't understand what they saw (obviously, they probably knew what sex was, but none of the social behaviour that goes with it), and went out and copied it.

Emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

To offset this the victim may never recover fully from this. Every grown woman struggles with this let alone young children

Hannibal Smith

bazmaiden wrote: »

Just seen this on Sky News, sounds horrible

Here's a snippet







Here's the full Link

I can't believe that two 10 year olds would do this to someone

Who'd have thought 10 year olds would have been capable of doing what they did to Jamie Bulger.

token56

The_Minister wrote: »

I'll stick my neck out and say that I don't think two ten-year-old boys can really understand what rape is, or the effects of it.

They probably saw something on tv, didn't understand what they saw (obviously, they probably knew what sex was, but none of the social behaviour that goes with it), and went out and copied it.

Emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

I think they had to understand what they were doing on some level in order to manipulate the girl like has been described in the article. I definitely think it was a learned trait, and they understood something about what they were doing, but I think its more likely it was learned by someone doing it to them. Just my opinion anyway

WindSock

orourkeda wrote: »

Surely not every 10 year old is sexually capable

No, I didn't say that they were

That is why this whole thing is shocking. How a 10 year old kid could come up with the idea of having sex/raping a girl with a mate is what he is supposed to do when his appendages allow him to do so makes you wonder how he came to that idea in the first place.

davyjose

sron wrote: »

I don't believe anyone is born evil myself, so it's irrelevant to me. But if you do believe it, you're punishing someone for something they could never prevent. Of course they couldn't be absolved completely as they might do it again, but a life sentence in a maximum security prison would be unfair.

I don't either, but people are born with differing character traits: my son and my niece are roughly the same age, and are completely different characters, you could see that in them in the first few months of their lives, so it's quite possible that some have a proclivity towards evil, moreso than others, or that character weaknesses allow evil to shape their lives more easily.

Wazdakka

I can't get over the amount of people who are screaming for blood / castration / hard jail time ect ect..

Ok.. It's messed up.
And what these boys did to that girl is obviously despicable and wrong.

But the boys are just children themselves... 10 years old ffs..
How can so many people say that there is no hope for them and that they'll never amount to anything..

WTF
it's not like this was a group of 30year old men who were hell bent on child abuse so assaulted and raped a little girl behind the bins.
It was a couple of children two years older than her who probably didn't really know what they were doing.

I'd agree with a few of you that there is a possibility the boys were sexually assaulted themselves..

Either way I don't think there are enough facts here for people to start lighting the torches and waving the pitchforks at two children.

Irishcrx

I'd imagine one of these boys has been sexualy assaulted himself, these things start at home. Also mentions that the mother went to the house and nobody was in, what kind of parent leaves there 10 year old to roam the streets without any surpervision nearby.

Either way, It's Juve at least for them it cannot go unpunished regardless of age it is a sick act and one that will effect that kid for the rest of her adult life.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

orourkeda wrote: »

Jesus wept.

The problem here is the liberal do gooders will stop justice being servd.

Ah, a blame-it-on-the-liberals quote inside two replies. New record. Sure are't they responsible for earthquakes, too?

I don't know which is worse: Rupert Murdoch emoticiism, or this moronic attitude that actually beleives it.

Sid_Justice

The_Minister wrote: »

I'll stick my neck out and say that I don't think two ten-year-old boys can really understand what rape is, or the effects of it.

They probably saw something on tv, didn't understand what they saw (obviously, they probably knew what sex was, but none of the social behaviour that goes with it), and went out and copied it.

Emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

I would beg to differ, at least to a degree. I think these 10 year olds would have a keen idea of what's socially acceptable and what's not. Taking a younger girl to an isolated place and forcing her to take knickers off on threat of assault or robbing her bike implies, at least to me, that they understood that what they were doing was 'against the rules'. Surely you'd agree that 10 year olds understand what stealing is? Surely you'd agree that 10 year old understand that hitting people is wrong? Therefore, I don't understand how you couldn't accept that they knew full well that molestation is wrong and from molestation to rape is a small step.

I'm not saying children would understand the gravitas of their actions as well as adults but I be slow to remove all personal liability.

sron

orourkeda wrote: »

But the criminal justice dictates that all cases are proved beyond reasonable doubt based on the evidence provided.

Surelt whether you are born evil or not is an academic or hypothetical argument at this point.

It probably is, but so is the rest of this thread. The justice system is based on rehabilitation anyway (supposedly). I'm just trying to counter the, "They're evil; scum like that should rot in jail" arguments, which are so infused with tabloid sensationalism that they amount to little more than a violent, atavistic, and emotional reaction.

The_Minister

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I would beg to differ, at least to a degree. I think these 10 year olds would have a keen idea of what's socially acceptable and what's not. Taking a younger girl to an isolated place and forcing her to take knickers off on threat of assault or robbing her bike implies, at least to me, that they understood that what they were doing was 'against the rules'. Surely you'd agree that 10 year olds understand what stealing is? Surely you'd agree that 10 year old understand that hitting people is wrong? Therefore, I don't understand how you couldn't accept that they knew full well that molestation is wrong and from molestation to rape is a small step.

I'm not saying children would understand the gravitas of their actions as well as adults but I be slow to remove all personal liability.

At that age I didn't know what rape was, let alone understand the full implications of it.

orourkeda

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Ah, a blame-it-on-the-liberals quote inside two replies. New record. Sure are't they responsible for earthquakes, too?

I don't know which is worse: Rupert Murdoch emoticiism, or this moronic attitude that actually beleives it.

Liberal do gooders don't exist or would never dream of contributing in a case like this.

Sorry for appearing like a moron and presenting a figment of my imagination.

WindSock

The_Minister wrote: »

They probably saw something on tv, didn't understand what they saw (obviously, they probably knew what sex was, but none of the social behaviour that goes with it), and went out and copied it.

Wazdakka wrote: »

WTF
it's not like this was a group of 30year old men who were hell bent on child abuse so assaulted and raped a little girl behind the bins.
It was a couple of children two years older than her who probably didn't really know what they were doing.

Perhaps they didn't set out to malicously assault the young girl. Perhaps they were experimenting as children as they thought that's what adults do when they have sex. But surely she was crying because she was being hurt and they carried on? Even a 10 year old would know that they are being cruel.
Then there is the manipulation with the scooter. They knew the girl wouldn't have agreed to the act on her own accord.

token56

The_Minister wrote: »

At that age I didn't know what rape was, let alone understand the full implications of it.

You may not have known what rape was, but would you have known it was wrong to bully the girl into doing things against her will, such as undressing herself. They knew at least part of something they were doing to wrong. And in getting her to partly undress herself before raping her, I dont think its beyond a 10 year old to realize, the action that took place after this this, i.e. the rape was also wrong.

Sid_Justice

The_Minister wrote: »

At that age I didn't know what rape was, let alone understand the full implications of it.

Well I'm assuming you didn't commit the act of rape. They allegedly did. They had erections and were aware at least at a gross motor level, how the act of coitus is committed. The girl claims "put their thingies in me".

I'm not arguing this particular case is overly sexual in nature. Isn't the cliche that most rapes are act of power rather than sex? It was a very visceral act of abuse.

dearg lady

This is a pretty horrific crime, I hope the young girl is ok, that's the kind of thing that could haunt a person. The lads should be punished sure, but I wouldn't write them off just yet, at 10 years old it possible they didn't fully understand what they were doing, though I don't doubt they knew it was wrong.

Hannibal Smith

Wazdakka wrote: »

I can't get over the amount of people who are screaming for blood / castration / hard jail time ect ect..

Ok.. It's messed up.
And what these boys did to that girl is obviously despicable and wrong.

But the boys are just children themselves... 10 years old ffs..
How can so many people say that there is no hope for them and that they'll never amount to anything..

WTF
it's not like this was a group of 30year old men who were hell bent on child abuse so assaulted and raped a little girl behind the bins.
It was a couple of children two years older than her who probably didn't really know what they were doing.

I'd agree with a few of you that there is a possibility the boys were sexually assaulted themselves..

Either way I don't think there are enough facts here for people to start lighting the torches and waving the pitchforks at two children.

Didn't really know what they were doing? I think that's an excuse thrown up too often. Having read the link and how they lured the girl, it seems they knew exactly what they were doing is wrong. Knowing they were causing or inflicting something on the girl or forcing something to happen that she didn't want is vile, whether they knew the name (rape) for it or not.

You cannot use the excuse 'didn't know what they were doing', they're 10 years of age, at 10 years of age you have some morality on what's right and what's wrong, otherwise there'd be no need for hiding what you did.

Banned Account

The fact that you are debating this at all is proof positive that immidiate death/castration/crucifixtion etc. is not a good idea ...



... ever.

sink

Call me a 'pinko liberal do-gooder bleeding heart douche' if you must but 10 year olds who commit these sort of acts aren't likely to have been brought up in a stable nurturing environment. Undoubtedly these two boy suffered from neglect and abuse themselves, they need corrective therapy and rehabilitation not punishment.