And where is the wine?

Berwick

There are about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 threads about beer here.

But hardly a thread about wine.

Can we also talk about wine?

I would like to see a thread about wine in general, where one can talk about all kinds of wine. And for some length of time.

What I see here are all too often threads of this type:

"My uncle hast given me a bottle of wine: Can I drink it?"

Then is answer is either "Yes" or "No" or "Perhaps", and the case is closed.

And also the thread .....

---

Mr Magnolia

How very random.

It's a discussion forum posters will discuss what they want.

Wine_Guy

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

How very random.

Agreed,
Very random indeed.
You are kind of asking someone else to create a topic that you can then join into.
You could start your own thread...

Mr Magnolia

I would love to see more discussion of wine on the forum but it can't be forced, just encouraged.

What about a wine club similar to the Cooking Club in Cooking & Recipes?

Every week posters could take it in turns to suggest a particular bottle of wine to try and posters could give it a go and voice their opinions on each week's thread. It could be interesting. The wines chosen each week would need to be easily accessible and widely available though.

Berwick

Wine_Guy wrote: »

You are kind of asking someone else to create a topic that you can then join into

No, I don't.

You could start your own thread...

Which I did.

Berwick

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

I would love to see more discussion of wine on the forum but it can't be forced, just encouraged.

I know.

And I don't think of forcing, but of encouraging.

Would you encourage it, too?

You said: "I would love to see more discussion of wine".

So how about some encouraging?

grenache

i put up a thread of wines i sampled in the last few months a couple of weeks back, i'll be adding to this in the coming week once i get the tasting notes sorted

MattKane

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Every week posters could take it in turns to suggest a particular bottle of wine to try and posters could give it a go and voice their opinions on each week's thread. It could be interesting.

Sounds like fun. I agree with Berwick too. And if anything there's more to argue and fight about over wine than there is over other drinks because of the diversity and the subjectivity. In true boards.ie fashion, there's nothing better than comparing notes and having a good old debate

enda1

Right, so here's my wine of the week.

House: Domain des Remezieres
Wine: Cuvee Particuliere
Appelation: Crozes-Hermitage
Vintage: ~2005 (from 2000 to 2007 should be good now)
Colour: Red
Grape(s): 100% Syrah
Serving Temperature: 16 degrees
Serving Time: Open about 1-2 hours
Serving Style: Decant
Serve With: Red or White Meat

Lovely wine if can be found in Ireland. We bought it in the village of Tain by the appelation, but I've see it in wine shops too in Dublin I think.

I meant to take tasting notes because I am ridicuously bad at remembering more than my enjoyment from a wine.

From my limited memory we drank this as described above, decanted for about and hour, then drank for an hour with food (I think steak).

Wine begins with deep fruit (blackcurrant) and ends more earthy with slight animal flavours.

Should be able to get for about €14 I'd say. Worth every penny!

http://www.domaineremizieres.com/wine/index.html

Berwick

Wine: Cuvee Particuliere

I am always interested in the grape varietes. Do you know what kind of grapes are in there?

---

Sorry, I just see: Its is 100% Syrah.

But why is it called a cuvée, then?

enda1

Berwick wrote: »

I am always interested in the grape varietes. Do you know what kind of grapes are in there?

As with all Crozes-Hermitage the main grape is Syrah, in this case 100% so.

I included it but in typical French fashion rather down the list!

enda1

Berwick wrote: »

I am always interested in the grape varietes. Do you know what kind of grapes are in there?

---

Sorry, I just see: Its is 100% Syrah.

But why is it called a cuvée, then?

Just their way of classifying their different wines from theis Crozes land.

In the Cotes du Rhone, there is not the Burgundy style Grand Cru, Premier Cru etc. so each maker can kinda call the wines from the appelation what they like.

Marketing.

enda1

I just popped off an email there to ask them about Irish importers/stockists, so hopefully can find out later and I'll add it up here if/when they respond.

the beer revolu

Tesco have a wine sale at the moment.

Had a wine last night that we liked (twas a present) and saw it in Tesco today discounted by €10.99! I bought 6!:D

Reserve Saint Clair 2007
Puissegun Saint Emillion.

now €9!

Wouldn't be worth €20 but is a steal at €9!

Pretty light and easy drinking for a Bordeaux and seems to be drinking well now - I suspect it won't age terribly well.

Maybe not a great example of a Bordeaux but a fine everyday wine for €9

Berwick

enda1 wrote: »

Just their way of classifying their different wines from theis Crozes land.

Well, a cuvée usually is a mixture of different grape varieties.

Then this one is a mixture of Syrah and Syrah.

enda1

Berwick wrote: »

Well, a cuvée usually is a mixture of different grape varieties.

Then this one is a mixture of Syrah and Syrah.

Well not really.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

When used in USA maybe yes, but not necessarily in France.
It just an old word relating to the fermentation tanks.

Anyways, I got a list of importers for the wine in Ireland:

Wines Direct
49 Lough Sheever
Corporate Park
Mullingar
Tel 00353.449340634
Fax 00353 449340015
E mail : fkealy@winesdirect.ie

McAlindon Wines
Direct Wine Shipments
5-7 Corporation Square
BELFAST BT1 3AJ
Tel (0)28 90508008
Fax : (0)28 90508002
E-mail : neal@directwine.co.uk


Mc Cambridge's
Wholesale LTD.
Brisbane House
Ballybane Ind.Est
Galway
Tel 091-750134
Fax 091-751100
E-mail wholesale@mccambridges.com


I will contact them to find stockists next - the hunt continues.

Berwick

My favourites are these:

White wines: Riesling and Traminer. It need not be a Gewürztraminer.

Red wines: Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder in German), Merlot, Pinotage, and especially Carmenère.

Wine_Guy

Berwick wrote: »

Well, a cuvée usually is a mixture of different grape varieties.

Then this one is a mixture of Syrah and Syrah.

Cuvee is the french term for VAT or tank, this particular phrase states its from a paticular tank or batch. probably used on this wine to raise the quality status specifying tank rather than vineyard

Cuvee does not mean a blend but can be used to specify a blend

the beer revolu

MattKane wrote: »

Sounds like fun. I agree with Berwick too. And if anything there's more to argue and fight about over wine than there is over other drinks because of the diversity and the subjectivity. In true boards.ie fashion, there's nothing better than comparing notes and having a good old debate

I'm all for talking about wine but I strongly disagree with the above statement.

When most people talk about wine, they are referring to only two styles of wine, namely :

Still light red,
Still light white,

Or lets go mad, and count all light wine styles (as opposed to fortified wines):

Red
White
Rosé
Sparkling Red (pretty uncommon)
Sparkling White
Sparkling Rosé

That's only 6 distinct styles
If we are to include fortified wines, then we would be get into bigger numbers, but I suspect that this thread is primarily for light wines.

The point I'm making is that there is nowhere near the kind of diversity in wine as there is in beer. Beer is made from a much more diverse range of ingredients and is made in a huge range of styles and alcohol strengths.
There is simply much more to talk about.

But, as I said, I'm all for talking about wine:D

Also picked up a 2003 Priorat in Tesco for €9 !

Berwick

the beer revolu wrote: »

The point I'm making is that there is nowhere near the kind of diversity in wine as there is in beer. Beer is made from a much more diverse range of ingredients and is made in a huge range of styles and alcohol strengths.
There is simply much more to talk about.

Let us agree to disagree.

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

And that is a gross under-estimation.

BeerNut

Berwick wrote: »

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

But it's only made from one fruit. Bor-ring

pfm

the beer revolu wrote: »

That's only 6 distinct styles

Well there are only 3 styles of beer!

1. Lager
2. Ale
3. Stout

Two and a half styles really as Smithwicks is undrinkable

the beer revolu

Berwick wrote: »

Let us agree to disagree.

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

And that is a gross under-estimation.

I suspect that I've drunk many more wines than you have beers.

Please explain how wine is more diverse than beer (bearing in mind previous post).
I have great love and respect for wine.
I also have a great love and respect for beer.
I think your statement above just displays your ignorance of beer.

the beer revolu

pfm wrote: »

Well there are only 3 styles of beer!

1. Lager
2. Ale
3. Stout

Two and a half styles really as Smithwicks is undrinkable

Do I even have to reply to that?

Berwick

You don't have to, of course.

But you may.

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

Do I even have to reply to that?

Posters interested in a response can refer to the BJCP style guidelines for a broad indication of what kind of beer styles there are in the real world. It gives 23 main categories, mostly sub-divided into several further sub-categories. Plus several catch-all categories like 23 Speciality Beer, and 22B Other Smoked Beer -- which themselves fit a vast array of beers.

pfm wrote: »

Two and a half styles really as Smithwicks is undrinkable

I've said it here before and I'll say it again: judging the world of beer based on what gets sold in most Irish pubs is like judging the world of food based on what is sold in most burger vans.

pfm wrote: »

Well there are only 3 styles of beer!

1. Lager
2. Ale
3. Stout

Perhaps, pfm, you can tell us which of those definitive categories you'd put California Common in, and where Kölsch fits best?

Anything used to make wine can be, and is, used to make beer. The reverse is not true.

Anywhere wine is made, beer is made. The reverse is not true.

Like the beer revolu, I love drinking wine, though I don't know much about it. However, I know I don't know much about it. It looks like some people on this thread do not realise how little they know about beer before they start making numerical assertions about it.

desk1

Just to add to the debate. Wine may be made from grapes only but there are 1000s of different grape varieties so you will have thousands of different styles depending on what grape you use,also depending on other factors like lees contact, oak ageing, climate, soil type,carbonic masceration, etc etc.
Chardonnay will make a very different wine in Chablis than it will be in Meursault for instance. Difference being the climate and oak ageing.

So both beer and wine are extremely excellent and complex with 1000s of different styles

pfm

BeerNut wrote: »

Perhaps, pfm, you can tell us which of those definitive categories you'd put California Common in, and where Kölsch fits best?

I had to Google California Common as I've never heard of it. Looks a bit darker than Lager but not as dark as Ale.

Just because Kolsch comes in a swing top bottle, it hardly merits calling it a different style of beer. It's still Lager!

BeerNut wrote: »

Anything used to make wine can be, and is, used to make beer. The reverse is not true.

Grape beer ? LOL! You mean wine with 4.3% alcohol!

DBCyc

BeerNut wrote: »

I've said it here before and I'll say it again: judging the world of beer based on what gets sold in most Irish pubs is like judging the world of food based on what is sold in most burger vans

Ha So true.

the beer revolu

pfm wrote: »

I had to Google California Common as I've never heard of it. Looks a bit darker than Lager but not as dark as Ale.

Just because Kolsch comes in a swing top bottle, it hardly merits calling it a different style of beer. It's still Lager!

I can't believe I'm arguing with someone so proudly and loudly ignorant of the subject they are arguing about.
But I can't help myself!!

Firstly, ale doesn't have a specific colour. You have pale ales, golden ales, amber ales, dark ales and anything in between.

Grolsch, is a brand of Dutch lager that comes in a swing top bottle.
Kolsch is a style of beer from Cologne. It is pale, fermented with a top fermenting yeast and usually served cask conditioned in small glasses, only in Cologne.

Please, pfm, don't continue your argument about beer, you know nothing about it and only come across as foolish.
However, I'll happily discuss wine with you, providing you have some degree of knowledge about it - maybe you can educate me a little!

BeerNut

pfm wrote: »

Grape beer ? LOL! You mean wine with 4.3% alcohol!

No, I mean beer: malt, hops, yeast, water, and grapes, both muscat and merlot/cabernet franc.

Wine_Guy

I can't understand how this is getting so out of hand..

I love wine, but i also love beer, and am very interested in spirits.
Although they are all made by different methods and processes i think that the enjoyment of any alcoholic beverage is the appreciation of hand crafted creations. I have never seen them as different categories but sub categories under the beverage category. I think that anyone who tries to analyze flavour profiles of drinks could do so as easily with wine as beer.
Maybe i'm just narrow minded



On a better note,
If your looking for some wine and nibbles this weekend I highly reccomend:
Barbera d'Asti tesco finest 7.35
Lidl black forest ham 1.99
Lidl goats cheese my block 2.82

I took a bit of a shot in the dark tonight mixing the 3 of these together but will serve them everytime i have people over...yummy

Berwick

I wonder why this is so:

More often than not beer friends enter a wine thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

But I have never seen a wine friend enter a beer thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

I wonder why this is so .....

:cool:

BeerNut

When you did this:

Berwick wrote: »

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

You did this:

Berwick wrote: »

create trouble and spoil the fun.

You need to back up your opinions when you're called on them. I think the case for the diversity of beer has been made in this thread. I've not seen anything about the much greater diversity of wine. Can someone enlighten us? It all seems like a combination of nothing more than grapes, wood, yeast and time to me. What have I missed? How is wine so much more diverse than beer when it has so few ingredients and is made in so few places?

Berwick

I still wonder why this is so:

More often than not beer friends enter a wine thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

But I have never seen a wine friend enter a beer thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

This is a wine thread and not a beer thread.

The praise of beer may be sung elsewhere.

---

That wine is infinitely more diverse than beer is not an opinion, but a fact.

But I know that it is hopeless to explain this to beer frieds who don't know a thing about it.

And finally:

The intention of this thread is not to fight with beer friends, but a friendly chat among wine friends.

That is my intention anyhow.

Wine_Guy

BeerNut wrote: »

I've not seen anything about the much greater diversity of wine. Can someone enlighten us? It all seems like a combination of nothing more than grapes, wood, yeast and time to me. What have I missed? How is wine so much more diverse than beer when it has so few ingredients and is made in so few places?

1) Diversity in wine comes in many different ways, it is not by use of different ingredients, but micro-climates and 'terroir' this includes soil types and the area it is grown. It is true to say that if you were to grow the same type of grape on either side of a road they will make completely different wines. The diversity of wine is hidden in the mystique of 'terroir'.

2) I don't think that your statement holds up. To use a phrase used on this thread before, if you were to judge the world of wine based on what gets sold on the irish market its like judging the world of food based on what is sold in most burger vans.
wine is made in places like England, Ireland, Wales and the first plantings in Scotland were laid this year....these are just the local ones and theres even more than this list of the worlds top 70 producers by volume:

Italy
France
United States
Spain
Argentina
Chile
South Africa
Australia
Brazil
Germany
Portugal
Greece
Romania
China
Moldova
Hungary
Ukraine
Austria
Russia
Bulgaria
Croatia
Serbia and Montenegro[5]
Macedonia
New Zealand
Switzerland
Lebanon
Mexico
Japan
Algeria
Georgia
Czech Republic
Canada
Slovenia
Uzbekistan
Peru
Slovakia
Cyprus
Morocco
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Turkey
Kazakhstan
Cuba
Albania
Belgium
Luxembourg
Uruguay
Madagascar
Armenia
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Israel
Tajikistan
Paraguay
Lithuania
Azerbaijan
Egypt
Kyrgyzstan
Venezuela
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Zimbabwe
United Kingdom
Malta
Syria
The Netherlands
Panama
India
Liechtenstein
Réunion
Although i do think india is alot further up this list by next crush

Berwick

@ Wine Guy

Why do you take all this trouble to argue with a beer nut?`

Genuine beer nuts will never understand.

And even if they do understand, they will not admit it.

Berwick

For many people, Germany is not even on the list of the wine growing countries.

But Germany alone has 13 distinct wine growing regions.

Talking of diversity .....

And I haven't even mentioned the grape varieties yet.

---

No use talking to someone whose horizon ends with red and white ....

BeerNut

Wine_Guy wrote: »

The diversity of wine is hidden in the mystique of 'terroir'.

Climate, soil types, plant strains, farming methods all apply to the diversity of hops. I prefer the term "chemistry" to "mystique", though: it's less wanky.

I notice coffee people use the term terroir as well. Since beer can be made with both grapes and coffee, I think terroir applies here too.

Wine_Guy wrote: »

if you were to judge the world of wine based on what gets sold on the irish market

I wouldn't dare. It's an impressive list, I grant you, so I withdraw my "few" statement, but will point out that all those places make beer.

Russia, Japan and the Netherlands, to pick three arbitrarily, have their own native types of beer (kvas, happoshu and bockbier, respectively) as well as making the common sorts. Do they have their own sorts of wine?

Berwick

BeerNut wrote: »

sorts of wine?

There is red and there is white.

No use explaining more to someone whose horizon ends with red and white. :D:D

the beer revolu

I agree that this has gotten out of hand.

What started with me disagreeing that wine is more diverse than other drinks has descended into a childish slagging match.

Yes wine is diverse, no one said it wasn't.

Wine guy, you talk sense.

Berwick, you are a childish petulant, ill informed prejudiced, narrow minded snob if you seriously think that because someone has a interest, love and knowledge of beer that they can have no appreciation or knowledge of wine and can have no part in your precious 'thread' about wine.
I love wine, but it is NOT a fact that wine is infinitely more diverse than beer and it is rather stupid to compare two things when you only have knowledge of one of them.

To get back to topic!!:

This weekend we are taking away with us:


Terras Gauda O Rosal, Albirino blend from Rias Baixas 2008

Domain Bind Humbrecht 2006, Alsace Reisling Truckheim

Propiedad Rioja 2005 , Palacios Remondo

Domaine Machard De Gramont, Cote do Beaune-Village


Also taking some rather good beers but that's not for this thread!!

€10 Corkage @ Inis Mean !! I think we're going to have a good wine weekend!!

Berwick

the beer revolu wrote: »

but it is NOT a fact that wine is infinitely more diverse than beer

Of course it is.

Enough said.

kenmc

lads it's really very simple. if you don't feed the little hairy things that live under bridges, they soon go away. problem solved.

the beer revolu

Berwick wrote: »

Of course it is.

Enough said.

Very well argued!;)
You should be a barrister!

_blank_

Berwick wrote: »

Of course it is.

Enough said.

Berwick, you are new here, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

But, if you keep up with this grating style of posting, upsetting everyone else, I'm not going to be left with much choice other than to assume you are doing it on purpose. Which isn't going to go down too well.

Augment your posting style, or stop posting.

Take that as a small warning.

Murphyt

Beer and wine go hand in hand gentleman.

I had a bottle of whitstable bay while preparing dinner and along with the starter, asparagus wrapped in parma ham and grilled with a little parmesan on top.
then a bottle of 1996 Phelan Segur, Bordeaux with steak and veg oven roasted in honey.
All I can say is I love whitstable bay and could drink it anytime anywhere, the Segur was an indulgence of course considering the price but unbelievable, I really wanted to send the wife away and have it all to myself but then there would be the divorce proceedings and it gets messy.

Any 2005 bordeaux will be good as it is to be the best year in a long time, it would be worth getting some nice ones to keep till about 2018 but even the cheap ones will be good as any crappy wine producer can produce a good bottle from that year.

the beer revolu

the beer revolu wrote: »

This weekend we are taking away with us:


Terras Gauda O Rosal, Albirino blend from Rias Baixas 2008

Domain Zind Humbrecht 2006, Alsace Reisling Truckheim

Propiedad Rioja 2005 , Palacios Remondo

Domaine Machard De Gramont, Cote do Beaune-Village


Also taking some rather good beers but that's not for this thread!!

€10 Corkage @ Inis Mean !! I think we're going to have a good wine weekend!!

The Propiedad above was sublime - so velvety and rich but not too 'big'. The most I've enjoyed a bottle of wine in a long time!!
All the above were very good but that stood out!!

the beer revolu

Murphyt wrote: »

Any 2005 bordeaux will be good as it is to be the best year in a long time, it would be worth getting some nice ones to keep till about 2018 but even the cheap ones will be good as any crappy wine producer can produce a good bottle from that year.

Yeah, I bought a mixed case of 2005 Bordeaux for keeping about 2 years ago ..... but can I wait that long??!!

Berwick

Des wrote: »

But, if you keep up with this grating style of posting, upsetting everyone else, I'm not going to be left with much choice other than to assume you are doing it on purpose. Which isn't going to go down too well.

Augment your posting style, or stop posting.

Take that as a small warning.

Sorry.

I had to learn first what the accepted style of posting is here:

the beer revolu wrote: »

Berwick, you are a childish petulant, ill informed prejudiced, narrow minded snob ....

I am sorry, I cannot keep up with this style.

---

FYI: I come from a wine-growing country, and all my ancestors habe grown and made wine for centuries.

So I was under the false impression, that wine might be a subject worth talking about.

Now in this thread I have learned 3 things:

1. Wine is not worth talking about.

2. There is red wine and there is white wine and that is all there is to it.

3. You should not contradict people here, especially if they sing the praise of beer.

---

I stand corrected.

I will stop posting here.

Berwick

Berwick wrote: »

The intention of this thread is not to fight with beer friends, but a friendly chat among wine friends.

That is my intention anyhow.

Yes, that was my intention ....

Jev/N

May I say, being a consumer of a relatively wide range of both wine and beer on regular occasion, that the your own arguments have been the downfall of this thread