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Hey Im the 20yr guy that posted earlier.
Just thought Id respond to some issues raised - the firs being that we should seek counseling. Thank you I had a good laugh over that comment and if you were being serious (which I doubt thats like telling a vegetarian they need counseling - its a personal choice and we are well aware of what we are missing out on.
I would also like to comment on the whole religion thing and I have to say that personally I did not come to my decision based on a 2,000 year old book that was heavily censored and edited. Even though I am catholic and this did influence my decision I would be very critical of the church (especially as an institution) and feel religion should be a more personal thing. So as for joining one of those religious retreat things I really cant see myself doing it I would feel too awkward etc.
Also on marrying a non-virgin I wouldnt rule it out but would prefer her to be a virgin.
Also to the op I would advise against changing your lifestyle choice as I know that if I lost my virginity outside of marriage I really cant see me thinking it was the right choice and I think I would regret it.
On another note it looks like people or trying to set us up (how you doin?) but in any case Im sure youll meet someone who shares or at least respects your decision.
Good luck!0 -
Because restricting oneselves sexuality by means of religion may seem perfectly fine by whatever education you received and therefore it seems perfectly natural and healthy to you (now) - but in reality it's far from that and there's a good chance this may lead to regret in later life.
But love is such a wonderful thing. Far too wonderful to miss out on it. There is far too great a chance you will have to spend too many more years without it and even if it does happen eventually the restriction you put on yourself makes it too great a chance for a poor match and then you might wake up one day realizing...
Seriously think it over, maybe even seek counseling, you really need to be 100% sure for yourself that this is your thing.
I think this is quite an unfair post which misses the point.
Firstly, I don't see how the decision to wait until marriage would necesarily lead to regret. True, any decision we make in life can lead to regret, but abstaining from sex before marriage is not more likely to lead to regret than other decisions are. In fact, it may lead to less regret - many studies show that a lot of people regret their first sexual experience and wish they had waited a bit longer.
I agree that love is a wonderful thing, and I think the OP does as well, which is why she has decided to wait. Perhaps she sees that it is too wonderful a thing to share with someone who is not committed to her for life? The decision to abstain, in my own personal experience, is based on the awareness of how wonderful love is, rather than viewing it is something dirty or something to do when bored or looking for companionship.
As for your point about the restriction leading to too great a chance of a poor match, what nonsense! It is likely to lead to a BETTER match because the husband and wife will share the same outlook on the world. This is a major component in successful relationships. True, having the same outlook on the world doesn't mean that you are necessarily compatible, or that you would be attracted to the other or even like to spend time in their company, but it does make compatibility more likely than meeting a random stranger in a bar.
As for the suggestion that she go for counselling, this comment is beneath contempt. The OP shows that she has quite a lot of character and a very healthy self-esteem. She knows she is worth waiting for, and is willing to stick to that. Let's turn the tables and look at it another way - imagine the outrage here if someone suggested that a 24 year old girl go to counselling before she decided to sleep with her boyfriend!
Singlegirl: stick to your guns. You won't regret it.0 -
singlegirl wrote: »I know it could happen but unlikely. I think my best bet is some of the prayer groups mentioned. I just hope I meet normal people.
Honestly I don't think it is so unlikely that you will meet someone who will respect, and even share, your views. In a world that is saturated with sexual imagery and conversation, we end up massively underestimating how many people share your values. Its just a normal psychological process that causes this underestimation. A recent large scale survey of Irish youth showed that 16% were still virgins at age 24. That doesn't include those who have had sexual experiences but who have subsequently decided to wait until marriage.
Similarly, you think that a guy who is not a virgin won't necessarily want to wait until marriage. But there are giys out there who, while no longer virgins, have now decided to wait until marriage as a result of a change of heart on the matter.
I am sure that you will meet normal people at these prayer groups. I am not involved in them but I know that there are lots of great people involved in the groups already mentioned. Just remember - even if you don't meet friends you immediately click with the first time you go, don't give up and give it a chance over time.0 -
I think this is quite an unfair post which misses the point.
How is it unfair? I am not judging am I?Firstly, I don't see how the decision to wait until marriage would necessarily lead to regret. True, any decision we make in life can lead to regret, but abstaining from sex before marriage is not more likely to lead to regret than other decisions are. In fact, it may lead to less regret - many studies show that a lot of people regret their first sexual experience and wish they had waited a bit longer.
I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way). Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing. In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief and while some people will be happy abiding to it and may find its what they actually want I would advise to be very careful and to go deep into yourself and find out if this really feels absolutely right for you.I agree that love is a wonderful thing, and I think the OP does as well, which is why she has decided to wait. Perhaps she sees that it is too wonderful a thing to share with someone who is not committed to her for life? The decision to abstain, in my own personal experience, is based on the awareness of how wonderful love is, rather than viewing it is something dirty or something to do when bored or looking for companionship.
I believe hat's a contradiction in itself. I believe if someone knows enough about love to know it to be so wonderful then that someone must have experienced love. It is not possible to have an opinion on this subject without having experienced it. And if that someone experienced real, true love and still chose not to pursue it for sexual restraint over religious believes that I would consider seriously unhealthy.
And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.As for your point about the restriction leading to too great a chance of a poor match, what nonsense! It is likely to lead to a BETTER match because the husband and wife will share the same outlook on the world. This is a major component in successful relationships. True, having the same outlook on the world doesn't mean that you are necessarily compatible, or that you would be attracted to the other or even like to spend time in their company, but it does make compatibility more likely than meeting a random stranger in a bar.
I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important. Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.As for the suggestion that she go for counselling, this comment is beneath contempt. The OP shows that she has quite a lot of character and a very healthy self-esteem. She knows she is worth waiting for, and is willing to stick to that. Let's turn the tables and look at it another way - imagine the outrage here if someone suggested that a 24 year old girl go to counseling before she decided to sleep with her boyfriend!
Well I tell you we def'ny had a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if people actually had some sort of sexual education/counselling.
Anyway I think you deliberately misunderstood what I was saying. It is in no way contempt. I didn't imply she had some sort of condition that can be 'treated' through counseling. What I meant was that she should talk this through with a trained, qualified and unbiased third party to ensure this is really what she wants.Singlegirl: stick to your guns. You won't regret it.
That's a big statement on a very big thing in someone elses life. I hope you're fully aware of that. I wouldn't dare to make such a statement. All I'm saying is that the OP should make extra sure of what she wants and then follow through on that.0 -
What I meant was that she should talk this through with a trained, qualified and unbiased third party to ensure this is really what she wants..
The point that Benincasa is trying to make (I think, apologies if wrong) is that very, very few people would suggest such a thing as a trained, qualified and unbiased third party advice if the OP had started a thread about sleeping with someone this weekend.
There have been many such threads on boards and I can't recall a single instance of counselling being advised.0 -
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The point that Benincasa is trying to make (I think, apologies if wrong) is that very, very few people would suggest such a thing as a trained, qualified and unbiased third party advice if the OP had started a thread about sleeping with someone this weekend.
There have been many such threads on boards and I can't recall a single instance of counselling being advised.
There is a big difference between sleeping or sleeping not with someone this weekend and and not sleeping with anyone ever until they're married.
I mean seriously guys. There is enough wrecked thirty/fourty-somethings out there who wish they hadn't married their second boyfriend at the age of 22. Its a pretty dangerous thing to be advocating a single-bullet-better-get-it-right approach to life.0 -
There is enough wrecked thirty/fourty-somethings out there who wish they hadn't married their second boyfriend at the age of 22.
There is? I think you'll find that the chances of a marriage between two people who waited lasting are statistically higher than those who didn't, so you should be arguing the other way.0 -
There is? I think you'll find that the chances of a marriage between two people who waited lasting are statistically higher than those who didn't, so you should be arguing the other way.
I don't know. I just find it dangerous to be waiting for THE ONE that may never come and exclude yourself from a very important aspect of humanity in the meantime. Then when THE ONE comes along you haven't got the experience to recognize him as THE ONE in the first place. Or else you let him go three years ago because you wouldn't give him a chance to be THE ONE.
I'm not going to make any further arguments either way.
All I'm saying is...: Please OP be very very sure about what you want to do here. I'm not saying either way is wrong, because we're all different and what may seem wrong to me can surely be someone else's bliss - just be sure that's all.
Edit: I mean she must have doubts, right. Otherwise she wouldn't be here.0 -
I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way).
This healthy love-life is a load of crap I mean how do we know whats healthy Theres a big difference between whats healthy and what is "normal" just because the majority of people do somethin it doesnt mean its healthy. And if having multiple partners was healthy why is AIDS and other STDs so common.Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing.
Ok how the hell is suppressing ones natural urges dangerous if anything its the opposite. Lets face it if we couldnt control our urges we would be no better than wild animals. And apart from sex we are constantly suppressing our urges I mean we dont go around punching people who piss us off or if were in a bad mood. It also plays a part with good manners etc or we dont go around insulting peoples views (this obviously doesnt apply to you as you dont suppress urges but most normal people do).In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief
I think it was made quite clear on numerous occasions that religion isnt the only reason for making this lifestyle choice.And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.
True but I think there is a big difference between love and meaningless sex (an argument for another thread)I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important.
True but so does everyone I mean we all have these filters and preferences For example your limiting yourself if you choose not to date smokers/people you find ugly/people with a criminal record/people who are unemployed/people with lots of tattoos/people with no tattoos/people who drink too much/people with long hair/people with short hair - the list goes on and is different for everyone.Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.
This sexually compatable thing is rubbish I mean you are saying that a marriage has a better chance if there is two people who dont have anything in common but have good sex than a marriage where two people share the same beliefs and worldviews but only have average sex. Now dont get me wrong good sex is important but even if your not compatable there are plenty of books/websites/advice out there so ye can improve.
Furthermore if ye are both virgins you wont have anything to compare it to so this isnt a problem.Well I tell you we def'ny had a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if people actually had some sort of sexual education/counselling.
There would be a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if more people chose to remain virgins till they were married.
sorry for the length and good luck Op.0 -
Singlegirl, don't let it get you down. There are lots of people who feel the same as you. I know people who waited and they are perfectly happy about the decision they made. One couple have had a perfectly happy marriage for over thirty years, so it can happen.
You sound a bit lonely to be honest, and it's easy to wonder if you've done the right thing when you look around and see everyone else having 'fun' or whatever. You will find someone. You're only 24. I know people who are still single in all age brackets, they aren't interested in marriage, they have sex, but they're still lonely.
Don't let life get you down. You'll be fine.0 -
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OP can I ask your stance on contraception? Reason being I'm 13 weeks pregnant at the moment and the combination of being exhausted and queasy meant my husband and I have only had sex once since the positive result (hoping the symptoms lift very very soon!!
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So from a practical point of view, if you wait until you're married and then don't use contraception, you probably only have a few months of a "normal" sexual relationship with your husband until it's all turned upsidedown. Which after waiting so long seems to defeat the purpose a bit...
Not sure exactly what my point is, just might be something to think about...0 -
Boskowski: I found your post to be problematic in many many ways. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect your right to it. It's one we will have to agree to disagree on.
I substantially agree with most of what Des Carter wrote, so I will confine myself to a few comments.
Actually you are judging in many ways. You imply that the decision to wait is unhealthy and repressed. That it will lead to regret and to potentially failed relationships. In any event, judging is not the problem, I found your suggestion about counselling to be most unfair.How is it unfair? I am not judging am I?
Des Carter was spot on in his statements about our need to control our urges. Look: even in relationships we have to control our urges. cch above posted about a lack of sex in pregnancy. As a result her husband has to control himself. Similarly a married man has to control himself when his wife is ill. And people in commited relationships have to control themselves when they meet someone else that they are attracted to.I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way). Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing. In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief and while some people will be happy abiding to it and may find its what they actually want I would advise to be very careful and to go deep into yourself and find out if this really feels absolutely right for you.
The idea that suppressing our urges is dangerous is laughable! In fact, it may be exactly the opposite - this forum regularly deals with people with various sexual problems, addictions, unwanted pregnancies and scares about pregnancy and concerns about STIs. A little bit of self-dominion could avoid a lot of this heartache for many people.
Nobody has advocated not pursuing love. It's perfectly possible to pursue love and decide not to sleep with someone until they are married.I believe that's a contradiction in itself. I believe if someone knows enough about love to know it to be so wonderful then that someone must have experienced love. It is not possible to have an opinion on this subject without having experienced it. And if that someone experienced real, true love and still chose not to pursue it for sexual restraint over religious believes that I would consider seriously unhealthy.
I've never heard somebody with a religious motivation describe love as dirty. I am not quite sure what you are implying here. What I said was that anybody who thinks that those who abstain before marriage think love or sex is dirty are badly mistaken. We don't.And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.
Des Carter dealth with this quite well. My only comment is that relying on the "in this day and age" argument is really lame! "This day and age" has absolutely nothing to do with it one way or the other. Are you suggesting that, because lots of people seem to be sleeping around "in this day and age" that we all need to do so in order to be just like everyone else?I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important. Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.
But if you insist in using the "this day and age" argument, fair enough. I will indulge you. What "this day and age" tells us is that STIs are increasing rapidly year on year. That there are lots of broken hearts - and families - as a result of sexual unfaithfulness. That science shows the powerful role of oxytocin in forming premature emotional bonds between casual sexual partners. That a majoroty of people regret early sexual activity. And that the people who consistently report the most satisfying sex lives are those who waited until marriage to have sex.
Because of the huge social changes in sexual habits of the last 50 years we know a lot more in this day and age about sex than we did before. And this evidence actually supports the OP's position.
I am quite somfortable telling the OP that she should stick to her position. I did. My wife did. Many of my friends did. None of us have any regrets. And, before you suggest that we might have any regrest in the future, I don't think so. We really think that waiting was one thing that made our relationship stronger and allows us to trust each other 100%.That's a big statement on a very big thing in someone elses life. I hope you're fully aware of that. I wouldn't dare to make such a statement. All I'm saying is that the OP should make extra sure of what she wants and then follow through on that.0 -
Op here.
Some of the posts are very interesting. As for the counselling suggestion I can assure whoever said it I don't need it. I am a perfectly normal person. I understand some people might believe that people who have this abstinence view might have some underlying issues but no not me.
Dudara & cch: My decision isn't based on religious reasons. I thought it was but now that I think about it more its not. I do go to mass but like everyone else I would have problems with the Catholic Church and the current scandals. The contraception issue in marriage that you refer to cch won't be a problem because I don't belive everything the church says. I would have a fear of stds and pregnancy but thats not the main reason either. I just don't think its right ( for me) to sleep with loads of people. I think sex is important and you shouldn't just sleep with anyone. ( This is only my view and obviously everyone thinks different and I respect this.)
Boskowski: As for the regret in later years I would regret it more if I slept with someone and it was just meaningless.
Benincasa: I agree with everything you post. I know that i have made the right choice. I was questioning it a little bit recently because I met a guy I really like but if he doesn't respect my choices well then I know now he is not the one for me.0 -
Well we obviously come from two very different angles and while I'm very content with how and why I arrived at my position - so are you. We have to agree to disagree.
If nothing else I'm glad the OP heard a different opinion.
Actually I changed my mind on this. I'm not happy to disagree. I think on second and third time reading your post that you're pushing some sort of reactionary agenda disguised as rediscovering virtues from the past or something.
I haven't got the time right now to address your post in detail but you're trying to make me and my opinion appear in a certain light which I'm not happy with.0 -
Well we obviously come from two very different angles and while I'm very content with how and why I arrived at my position - so are you. We have to agree to disagree.
If nothing else I'm glad the OP heard a different opinion.
Actually I changed my mind on this. I'm not happy to disagree. I think on second and third time reading your post that you're pushing some sort of reactionary agenda disguised as rediscovering virtues from the past or something.
I haven't got the time right now to address your post in detail but you're trying to make me and my opinion appear in a certain light which I'm not happy with.
I completely reject the notion that I have some sort of "reactionary agenda". Indeed, it is you in fact who is quite blatantly trying to paint my opinion in a "certain light".
I have not told people that they must live the way I choose to live. I am not imposing an agenda on people. Nor indeed am I suggesting that they should go for counselling. I am giving advice based on my own life and based on my reading of our collective cultural experience of the last 50 years. You, clearly, desire to live your life in a different way. That is entirely your affair, and I wish you luck with it. I respect your decision and I genuinely wish you well in your life. It is clear that your position is the majority position in our culture, although not perhaps as much of a majority as you might think. I hope that your decisions bring you happiness. I have no desire to impose any agenda on you, nor indeed, could I ever hope to succeed in doing so if I wanted to.
Where I do have a major disagreement with you is in your characterisation of the OP and of others, like me, who have similar values. Unfortunately you have chosen to use fairly tired cliches in your argument/advice. The latest is to call me reactionary! What a laugh! How does this nonsensical name calling help this discussion?
As for virtues of the past, I'm sorry, but they are virtues of the present. People are living them NOW. True, not in the same numbers, but it does happen.
My advice to the OP remains the same - it is possible to meet somebody who shares your values AND who will be compatible with you in other ways as well. Don't give up hope even if it seems difficult at times.0 -
Boskowski and Benincasa, take it to PM if you want to continue a discussion with each other.0
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Boskowski and Benincasa, take it to PM if you want to continue a discussion with each other.
Admittingly gettin' a bit ratty last night, after a good night of sleep I was going to suggest to end it here myself. Clearly not helping the OP plus going nowhere. Thanks for reminding me Zaph.
All the best to the OP.0
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