Lifestyle Choices

LegacyUser

Hi

Basically I have come to a crossroads in my life regarding the lifetyle choices I have chosen for myself.

I am a 24 year old single female. I decided some time ago to remain a virgin until I get married due to my religious and moral beliefs. I know this is strange in this day and age but I haven't come on here to get these views blasted.

The problem is obviously that I am never going to meet anyone who shares my views. So often I think about just changing these views but then I just can't do it.

I don't know what kind of advice I am looking for-I just thought I would post as it gets me down.

AJG

If you have religious beliefs surely you could meet people through your church who would share the same beliefs as you on sex before marriage.

I know a few guys who met their wives through their churches (varying denominations). I'm certain they felt the same as you on sex before marriage too.

Your unlikely to find people outside of a church setting these days who feel the same as you (although probably not impossible just few and far between I'd say).

So if its your religious convictions motivating your decision then there's no better place to start.

minidazzler

Your choice does severely limit your pool of men to choose from TBH. But it does not mean you will never find someone.

Your views are your own, but this really does limit you in who will marry you. Sex is an important part of any loving relationship IMO and I don't see why you would wait until married rather than until you find the right person who you will spend your life with. But those are your views.

Finding a man willing to wait until marriage is not as hard though, as finding a man willing to wait until marriage who is also part of your particular denomination, and (if it's your thing) from your country. EDITTED IN: Finally, any man you do find will have to be compatible with you too, merely being willing to wait until marriage doesn't guarantee compatibility!

There is no advice I can think of for this except to say I hope it works out for the best for you.

JonathanAnon

Hi there, firstly I admire you for your intentions.. And I dont think you will get "blasted" for wanting to stay a virgin until you are married. It's your choice, and really nobody else's decision. When I was young and idyllic, I had similar aspirations. Then, after being messed over by a girl I really liked, I slept with a complete slapper ... as some sort of childish revenge..

The thing I dont understand is why would you make a decision to do something that "gets you down"? Also, you may be making it difficult for yourself to meet someone by today's standards.. I think most guys would probably expect sex WELL before marriage.. and like you said yourself, meeting someone with similar intentions may be difficult...

LegacyUser

OP as posters have said already, you will likely find it extremely difficult to find a man that shares your views. The real difficulty as i see it is in when you meet someone you really like but then who doesnt share your views. I imagine that will occur a lot and will be dissapointing. When you consider how hard it can be to find that special someone ordinarily, slicing off 99% of potential matches immediately really does make it hard for you.

However its not impossible, and as other posters have said, meeting somebody through church or in some other form of religious setting is definetely your best bet.

Although as an atheist, I dont share your views, i wont try to change them. However i would encourage you to think it through thoroughly, and in particular to be sure you wish to wait for the right reasons. Ie You yourself believe it to be the right thing to do for YOU. It would be my view that it would be a mistake to make a major lifestyle decision such as that based on the teachings of any one organised religion rather than for your own personal beliefs.

I hope it works out for you OP

LegacyUser

Hey Op,
Im a 20yr old guy and I also intend on remaining a virgin until Im married. For me its more about the whole not wanting to catch any STDs and not ending up a dad after a meaningless fling. The whole moral thing plays a part too and even though I am a catholic I think id make the same decision even if I wasnt.

Anyway I also feel like Im the only normal person with these beliefs. (The whole being really into religion like a born again christian thing is slightly disturbing as Im not at all like that - for example I dont think having sex outside marriage is bad, Its just a personal choice) So it does get lonely from time to time as I would really like to meet someone with the same views. (again just a personal choice - I think the whole idea of only having sex with one person you care most about would be great as you would be able to discover everything (in terms of sex) with each other). Again I know all too well how naive and even ridiculous this sounds but Im just going to stick it out and hope for the best.

On another point it is made even harder to meet someone with these views as no one will admit to holding them (I dont tell anyone) so even if I met someone who felt the same neither of us would know.

Anyway I just want to thank you Op as it has really cheered me up to know that I am not alone and I would advise you to stay strong and stay true to yourself as there has to be more of us out there.

I hope this helps and good luck

S23

I don't want to question you or belittle you or anything but I will ask you a couple of question regarding your 'religious convictions'. Before I ask it I will tell you I ask this particular question because there is a lot of guilt around sex in extremely catholic countries (which Ireland has been for a long time but is now growing out of) for a long time

1) Do you want to wait until marriage before having sex based purely on the basis that your religious belief says you should do so?

If thats the case fair enough but it leads me to my next question

2) Do you really follow through on all the decrees and rules (whatever you want to call them) this same religious belief is supposed to adhere to?

Just for example lets say you are catholic (not saying you are) Do you attend church every day? Do you go to confession regularly? Do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Do you believe the use of contraception of a sin? Do you believe everyone who commits suicide will burn in hell for all eternity? Do you believe masturbation is a sin? Do you refrain from eating meat on Fridays? Or if you do eat meat on Fridays do you make sure you observe some other specific penance on those days?
There are a million and one rules for each religion. And while avoiding the blatant ones (not killing people! etc..) is easy enough there is a muddle further down the line. In theory all breaches are sinful but some people put more weight into a specific thing (i.e not having sex) than they do to another (i.e not eating meat on Fridays).

Look, long story short, don't sell out who you are for the sake of finding someone you might not really want or be happy with just because its what everyone else does.

However, don't constrict yourself by strict observance of just one rule of your chose faith when you can, will and I am absolutely certain already do breach many of the other articles of faith. Nobody observes every single facet of their faith.

Now this is not me suggesting you throw it about. It's not me suggesting you sleep with anyone for experience or for the craic or because its the done thing. I am guessing you really want to be in love with and be committed to (and vice versa) whoever you end up sleeping with.

However, you don't nessicarily have to be married for that to be the case. Your religion and faith are your own and they are admirable. Just be aware that you most likely don't observe a lot of the 'rules' of your faith as it is. So while I know you are trying your best to adhere to those rules don't forget that you have a life to live and as long as you do your best and continue to be the person you are deep down then any (eventual) pre-marital sex is not as awful as it may have once seemed to you

LegacyUser

hi, OP, i'm 34, female and i hold the same belief.

i believe that sex is the expression of love, and marriage is the beginning of love, so i want to wait until someone who wants to start the love journey with me together in marriage.

yet, yes, it's not an easy decision, and i did fail in temptations and my resistant to have sex with guys does push guys away. but i guess it's also a scan for those who truly love you and respect your choice.

there were time i thought of giving up this decision esp. so many guys were driven away, then you would question yourself whether it worths it. and your body also want it esp. you like that person.

but now, i really think, the guys who left because of this was not for me. And i am not for them neither.

what i learned from the experience is: to be firm with your belief, to accept your are a human and have the desire, to reject skillfully and playfully and explain calmly. and i hope next time i can deal with it tactfully.

to guys, it can mean a rejection. they want more and it's the natural body drive.

yes, better find a man in church, but again, it's not easy, not many young guys in church nowadays.

anyway, i dont really know what i am talking about. just want to tell you you are not the only one. i agree that think clearly and do this because you want it to, but not because someone else say so, otherwise, you will be bitter later.

PK2008

How about a religious dating site on the internet?

Ive no idea if there is one but the internet seems to have something for everyone so Im sure if you look around you could find one (be careful though obviously)

slowmoe

op i go to a church on gardiner st and while im not a virgin myself i've met an awful lot of people there that are and are waiting for marriage. these people are great craic, good looking mostly, nice personalities and not 'psycho' religious and also not judemental of my lack of virginity. i think you're dead right to stick to your guns but sadly society today seems to send out the message if you're not having sex then there is something wrong with you. Depending on what religious belief you are a part of i really think you should find a church and a youth/ social group from a suitable church in your age bracket. you should meet like minded people there and once you have a group of friends with similiar beliefs then you will probably branch out and starting meeting men


you aren't in the wrong here so don't let people make you feel weird. nobody should be pressured into sex no matter what the reason

muinteoir09

SAME here wrote: »

i believe that sex is the expression of love, and marriage is the beginning of love, so i want to wait until someone who wants to start the love journey with me together in marriage.

What a bizarre statement. Marriage is not the 'beginning of love'. Anyone who is not in love shouldn't be getting married. Marriage is a commitment made by people who have decided to spend the rest of their lives together. No-one should get married before they know that that is the case.

If the 'love journey' as you call it didn't beginning until marriage, then we would all have arranged marriages where we could grow to 'love' the stranger we are legally committed to. Nonsense.

As regards sex being an expression of love, yes of course it is. It CAN also be just something that people do for pleasure without damaging their soul.

OP, if you are dedicated to your beliefs then do not let anyone pressure you into doing something you do not want to do. Although as others have said, you may find it hard to find a man willing to wait that long. Re-read S23's post - there are some very good points made and well worth thinking about.

Maria G

Hi OP,
I think your decision not to compromise on your values is really admirable. And don't despair, there are plenty of young, attractive, fun, normal guys around who believe in saving sex until marriage too - trust me, I'm friends with many of them. And contrary to what some of the other posts have said, these people stick by their beliefs not because it's some rule in a religion book, but because of a much deeper meaning. They respect themselves, they know how meaningful (and even sacred) sex can be in the context of marriage, and they're not about to settle for less, or risk stds and unexpected pregnancy for the sake of following the crowd.

From where i see it, the new chaste generation has nothing to do with guilt or fear or being prudish. There's a real freedom in falling in love with some-one for who they are, without having to deal with all the emotions and bonds of sex that can cloud your judgement. I'm not going to pretend it's always easy (swimming against the stream never is) but I don't believe waiting is something you'll ever regret.

I read a fantastic book called 'the thrill of the chaste' that helped me to make the same choice that you have. You can pick a copy of it up on Amazon. Pope John Paul 2 has written a lot of insightful stuff on the meaning of human sexuality that I think you'll find interesting. Try googling 'theology of the body' or check out www.pureinheart.net, who are a group of young Irish Catholics who promote JP2's teaching, and give talks about chastity.

In relation to where to meet like-minded people - youth prayer groups are a great place to start. You could try one out for a couple of weeks to see what you think. I'm not sure what faith you practice, but I can recommend two Catholic groups. Youth 2000 (www.youth2000.ie) host weekend retreats throughout the year. There's one coming up in Tuam on the 21-23rd of May, and in Clonmacnoise in August. Pure in Heart who I mentioned above, hold weekly prayer meetings, and other socials and events for 18-35 year olds. I know it can be daunting going along to groups for the first time, but the people in both of these organisations are used to lots of newcomers and will make you feel really welcome.

I hope this helps

LegacyUser

muinteoir09 wrote: »

What a bizarre statement. Marriage is not the 'beginning of love'. Anyone who is not in love shouldn't be getting married. Marriage is a commitment made by people who have decided to spend the rest of their lives together. No-one should get married before they know that that is the case.

If the 'love journey' as you call it didn't beginning until marriage, then we would all have arranged marriages where we could grow to 'love' the stranger we are legally committed to. Nonsense.

I dont think my view is nonsense. You can have your own view, and I have mine. While you can express your view, it is not necessary to criticise mine.

For me, love include commitment. If there is no commitment, that is not complete love.

Yes, you should marry that one you want to love in your whole life, therefore, it's better to know the other half well before you enter the marriage, make sure you are willing to love him/her in your whole life. That's why we can't marry strangers.

That's my definition anyway.

Re the other rules, I can just say, there are rules that are very important, that are rules that are less important. Sex before marriage cannot compare with not attending church every week. But I have no intention to discuss further as this is not a religious forum.

OP, I wish you all the best in the way.

LegacyUser

limiting my choices and I am. I know its going to be really hard to find someone that you get on wHey. OP here.

Thanks for all the replies. They really cheered me up. I thought I was going to get a bashing but everyone was very respectful.

20 year old guest: I feel the exact same as you. I am not physco religious so I fear meeting these really religious people. It is also for fear of STDs and mainly pregnancy aswell as my beliefs. I would be a nervous wreck regarding pregnancy scares. I know other girls who feel the same as me so that should cheer you up too. I don't tell anyone either so if I did meet someone they wouldn't know.

Maria G: Thanks for all those groups. I am a Catholic and I have looked at them. I just need to get the courage to go to them by myself. Hopefully over the coming months I will.

I know what everyone else is saying about ith who also shares the same view. I know as one poster said I break other Catholic rules but I just don't mind that as much.

Thanks for all the replies and I will just try to struggle on with my choice.

Lollipops23

SAME here wrote: »

to guys, it can mean a rejection. they want more and it's the natural body drive.

Respectfully disagree there.Guys do not "want it more"-plenty of women have an even higher sex drive than lots of menfolk-myself included!

OP I do not agree with you but I respect your right to your views. As many posters have said,your choices do limit your pool of men somewhat-having said that,do you really want to be with someone who doesn't share your beliefs?It's a fairly big part of life.

I reckon try joining some groups,church or perhaps some kind of abstinence group?I wish you all the luck in the world,I know I could never surpress those urges!Take care.

LegacyUser

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Respectfully disagree there.Guys do not "want it more"-plenty of women have an even higher sex drive than lots of menfolk-myself included!

Points respectfully taken tho still questioning about the possibility that I can meet guys who would not want more till they get the sex. Anyway, thanks for the other perspectives.

Benincasa

Dear singlegirl:

Firstly, I want to commend you on your decision. Yes, it is tough, but not actually as tough as people make out. And the rewards are well worth it.

Some comments: yes, it will restrict the pool of men, but in some ways this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because when you do meet a guy who shares your worldview you are a lot more likely to be compatible with him. Having this shared worldview is an extremely important thing in marriage and is something that many people ignore, to their cost.

Apart from the obvious issues of avoiding std's and pregnancy fears, there are other sound benefits to your decision.

Waiting until marriage could also leave you freer in your decision making. Many people - note: I am not saying everyone - can make bad relationship decisions based on the sexual bonding that has already taken place. This is due to a hormone called oxytocin which creates a powerful bond with sexual partners and can end up clouding your judgement. Obviously there are many exceptions to this, but there is a science behind it. You can google it to find out more.

It can also create more trust in your marriage. Afterall, if your future husband has controlled himself sufficiently to wait just for you and for marriage, it is more likely that he will also be able to resist temptations to unfaithfulness after marriage. Of course, I'm not saying that this is inevitable, nor am I saying that those who haven't waited until marriage are more likely to cheat. But it does seem fairly logical that waiting until marriage will build trust in the relationship. Similarly, neither you nor your husband will have to worry about being compared with anyone else, and can have the fun of learning about sex together.

None of this should be seen as disparaging those who have made a different decision - those who are not virgins can obviously make wonderful, loving, faithful husbands and wives. But it does strike me that there is an advantage in waiting until marriage.

However, there are some things you need to be careful about. For example, it is unlikely, though not completely impossible, that you will meet the guy you are looking for in a pub or a club. Its not impossible of course, but its likely to be difficult to find him that way. You may also need to be careful with alcohol and avoid getting drunk or at least avoid getting very drunk in situations in which you are not comfortable.

As for S23 who implied that it made little sense to wait until marriage unless you followed every part of the Church's teachiong, well that position doesn't make sense. It's like saying that an athlete shouldn't start training for a marathon if they're too unfit to run the marathon on their first day of training. We all fall down in lots of ways, but that's no reason not to try! It's almost like the lesson Homer Simpson taught Bart one day "If at first you don't succeed, give up!". By the way S23, your list of Catholic "sins" is well off; the Church does not regard many of the things in your list as sinful, though I won't explore this further as its off topic.

As Maria_G said, there are some good groups out there with lots of normal people your age with your values. I am not involved in them, but I know they are good, and you should definitely go along. If you feel a bit intimidated maybe you could make contact with them and ask to meet someone involved before you go along, just so that you know one familiar face!

As for myself, I am a guy in my mid-thirties. I married in my early thirties, and both my wife and I were virgins when we married. Yes, it was difficult at times, but not TOO difficult, and we both believe it was worth it and we wouldn't change a thing.

Best of luck with everything!

Sir Ophiuchus

singlegirl wrote: »

The problem is obviously that I am never going to meet anyone who shares my views. So often I think about just changing these views but then I just can't do it.

A friend of mine is a devout Christian and has made the same choice. I respect her choices, and don't mock or blast her about it.

There are definitely others who've made the same choice. I suggest maybe joining a church youth group or something similar.

LegacyUser

I completely respect your view OP... I think it could be such a missed opportunity for you not to at least try to connect with the guy on here, similar age, who seems to share your views...
You say it will be impossible to meet someone with similar views to you. It appears to me, that he's on this page...
Sorry mods...I know this isn't the place..but couldn't not say that!

myk

singlegirl wrote: »

Hi

Basically I have come to a crossroads in my life regarding the lifetyle choices I have chosen for myself.

I am a 24 year old single female. I decided some time ago to remain a virgin until I get married due to my religious and moral beliefs. I know this is strange in this day and age but I haven't come on here to get these views blasted.

The problem is obviously that I am never going to meet anyone who shares my views. So often I think about just changing these views but then I just can't do it.

I don't know what kind of advice I am looking for-I just thought I would post as it gets me down.

Your choice, while no longer mainstream, is not that uncommon. One thing that you should consider, if you have not already, is whether you would go out with someone who is not a virgin, but is willing to respect your choices. There are certainly guys out there your age who share your belief and your approach to relationships. But there will also be guys out there who haven't chosen the same path as you but who will respect your choices.

As I think, others have said you are more likely to be happier with someone who shares your views on relationship matters or who at least respect them. They may be a little harder to find, but they do exist and you are probably much better off making that extra effort to find them.

AJG

There is another thing to take into consideration and that is do you think it important for your husband to also be a virgin.

I know the two couples I mentioned in my previous posts did wait until marriage but the guys weren't virgins as far as I know. One of the girls definitely was and I'm not sure about the other.

You may be really limiting yourself if you expect the man you meet to also be a virgin. Again not impossible, but rare outside of the sphere of organised religion.

Lollipops23

SAME here wrote: »

Points respectfully taken tho still questioning about the possibility that I can meet guys who would not want more till they get the sex. Anyway, thanks for the other perspectives.

Sorry I didn't say that at all,and it's really not what I was trying to communicate to the OP. I certainly didn't say that you can't meet a guy who wouldn't "want more" than sex in a relationship-I'm in no doubt that there are guys who would be fine with that.
What I ACTUALLY said was that you can't say that all men "want" sex more than the average woman.Obviously something lost in translation.

prinz

myk wrote: »

One thing that you should consider, if you have not already, is whether you would go out with someone who is not a virgin, but is willing to respect your choices. There are certainly guys out there your age who share your belief and your approach to relationships. But there will also be guys out there who haven't chosen the same path as you but who will respect your choices.

+1

Five years ago I met a girl and she was in the same position as the OP wanting to wait until marriage. I wasn't a virgin, but she made her feelings clear to me early on and I told her of my past. We chose to give the relationship a go. We're now married 6 months.

Accepting her for who she was was the best decision I ever made, and it was made against the advice of many friends etc who thought it was stupid to wait etc.
But it took the two of us, she respected me and my past and I respected her and her choices. It may be hard for you to find someone but there are people out there who may not have made the same choice as you OP but who may respect the choice you have made so you need to keep an eye out. Best of luck!

LegacyUser

Hi Op here.

Thanks for all the replies. As for the question on whether I would date a guy who wasn't a virgin I would as long as they respected my choices. I just think they would be unlikely to.
I know it could happen but unlikely. I think my best bet is some of the prayer groups mentioned. I just hope I meet normal people.

Unregistered: Yeah i get what you are saying:L If only we had boards accounts.
Beinesces: Its good to know that other people in my situation had a successful outcome. Thanks

This thread has really made me intent on sticking to my beliefs and that its not a lost cause just a more difficult search.

Lollipops23

singlegirl wrote: »

Unregistered: Yeah i get what you are saying:L If only we had boards accounts.

Perhaps make a suggestion to boards for such a facility?

OP while I don't agree with your beliefs,you shouldn't let anyone deter you from them.You have made a choice that is hard to see through in today's world, and it is comendable that you are so committed. You will find a guy-even girls who have a more orthadox(for today's world) view of sex find it hard to find the love of their lives,just be patient and he'll find you.

LegacyUser

Thanks lollipops. Hopefully he will find me. I might just make that suggestion to boards.

Zaph

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Perhaps make a suggestion to boards for such a facility?

singlegirl wrote: »

Thanks lollipops. Hopefully he will find me. I might just make that suggestion to boards.

Sorry folks, but just to be clear on this - OP, as both you and the guy mentioned have posted unregistered, we have no way of identifying you to put you in contact with one another (and that's without even into the whole business of Boards not being a dating site). Only in extreme cases at the request of the Gardaí will we attempt to identify an unregged poster, and even then this information would only be available to 2 or 3 people. Even as an admin I would not be privy to the information. So I'm afraid the only way the two of you could contact each other is for each of you to create Boards accounts, post on this thread using them and then PM one another. Who knows, stranger things have happened.

Lollipops23

Zaph wrote: »

Sorry folks, but just to be clear on this - OP, as both you and the guy mentioned have posted unregistered, we have no way of identifying you to put you in contact with one another (and that's without even into the whole business of Boards not being a dating site). Only in extreme cases at the request of the Gardaí will we attempt to identify an unregged poster, and even then this information would only be available to 2 or 3 people. Even as an admin I would not be privy to the information. So I'm afraid the only way the two of you could contact each other is for each of you to create Boards accounts, post on this thread using them and then PM one another. Who knows, stranger things have happened.

woops,my bad I actually meant a forum section for people who practice abstinence!!

Zaph

Lollipops23 wrote: »

woops,my bad I actually meant a forum section for people who practice abstinence!!

Ah right, I understand now. While it might be a nice idea, I'm afraid it wouldn't really be possible imo because, as I've mentioned above, boards isn't a dating site, and tbh I can't see much potential for an abstinence forum if it wasn't to be used for like-minded people to meet others of the opposite sex.

Boskowski

I don't know what to say. I'm astonished quite frankly, but surely you have gone your own way to where you are now and if this is your conviction fair enough. But I hope you won't wake up one day to realize on all the chances you missed out on and all the years 'wasted'. Because restricting oneselves sexuality by means of religion may seem perfectly fine by whatever education you received and therefore it seems perfectly natural and healthy to you (now) - but in reality it's far from that and there's a good chance this may lead to regret in later life.
Because loving and being loved is a very important and perfectly natural thing to happen in the prime of your youth (and at any age for that matter) and at the end of the day we're all just human with human feelings and human urges and there's nothing wrong with that.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating promiscuity. Far from it. But love is such a wonderful thing. Far too wonderful to miss out on it. There is far too great a chance you will have to spend too many more years without it and even if it does happen eventually the restriction you put on yourself makes it too great a chance for a poor match and then you might wake up one day realizing...

Seriously think it over, maybe even seek counseling, you really need to be 100% sure for yourself that this is your thing.

dudara

OP - it appears that your view on abstinence is more formed by a fear of STDs and pregnancy than on religious principles. Am I correct in this, or is it only a part of your abstinence?

The reason I ask is because you need to be true and honest with yourself before you can be honest with others. You are deliberately placing yourself in a *minority* position in our culture, but there is nothing wrong with that. Just make sure that you are in there for the right reasons.

I don't believe in religion, but I do fully understand the desire to be in a relationship and I applaud anyone who makes a deep decision based on their morals.

As a last point, I just want to challenge you - Deep commitment and lifelong relationships are possible outside of religion. Marriage is simply a blessing on top of a committed relationship. Does thinking about it this way change your mind in any way?

Good luck

LegacyUser

Hey Im the 20yr guy that posted earlier.
Just thought Id respond to some issues raised - the firs being that we should seek counseling. Thank you I had a good laugh over that comment and if you were being serious (which I doubt thats like telling a vegetarian they need counseling - its a personal choice and we are well aware of what we are missing out on.

I would also like to comment on the whole religion thing and I have to say that personally I did not come to my decision based on a 2,000 year old book that was heavily censored and edited. Even though I am catholic and this did influence my decision I would be very critical of the church (especially as an institution) and feel religion should be a more personal thing. So as for joining one of those religious retreat things I really cant see myself doing it I would feel too awkward etc.

Also on marrying a non-virgin I wouldnt rule it out but would prefer her to be a virgin.

Also to the op I would advise against changing your lifestyle choice as I know that if I lost my virginity outside of marriage I really cant see me thinking it was the right choice and I think I would regret it.

On another note it looks like people or trying to set us up (how you doin?) but in any case Im sure youll meet someone who shares or at least respects your decision.

Good luck!

Benincasa

Boskowski wrote: »

Because restricting oneselves sexuality by means of religion may seem perfectly fine by whatever education you received and therefore it seems perfectly natural and healthy to you (now) - but in reality it's far from that and there's a good chance this may lead to regret in later life.
But love is such a wonderful thing. Far too wonderful to miss out on it. There is far too great a chance you will have to spend too many more years without it and even if it does happen eventually the restriction you put on yourself makes it too great a chance for a poor match and then you might wake up one day realizing...

Seriously think it over, maybe even seek counseling, you really need to be 100% sure for yourself that this is your thing.

I think this is quite an unfair post which misses the point.

Firstly, I don't see how the decision to wait until marriage would necesarily lead to regret. True, any decision we make in life can lead to regret, but abstaining from sex before marriage is not more likely to lead to regret than other decisions are. In fact, it may lead to less regret - many studies show that a lot of people regret their first sexual experience and wish they had waited a bit longer.

I agree that love is a wonderful thing, and I think the OP does as well, which is why she has decided to wait. Perhaps she sees that it is too wonderful a thing to share with someone who is not committed to her for life? The decision to abstain, in my own personal experience, is based on the awareness of how wonderful love is, rather than viewing it is something dirty or something to do when bored or looking for companionship.

As for your point about the restriction leading to too great a chance of a poor match, what nonsense! It is likely to lead to a BETTER match because the husband and wife will share the same outlook on the world. This is a major component in successful relationships. True, having the same outlook on the world doesn't mean that you are necessarily compatible, or that you would be attracted to the other or even like to spend time in their company, but it does make compatibility more likely than meeting a random stranger in a bar.

As for the suggestion that she go for counselling, this comment is beneath contempt. The OP shows that she has quite a lot of character and a very healthy self-esteem. She knows she is worth waiting for, and is willing to stick to that. Let's turn the tables and look at it another way - imagine the outrage here if someone suggested that a 24 year old girl go to counselling before she decided to sleep with her boyfriend!

Singlegirl: stick to your guns. You won't regret it.

Benincasa

singlegirl wrote: »

I know it could happen but unlikely. I think my best bet is some of the prayer groups mentioned. I just hope I meet normal people.

Honestly I don't think it is so unlikely that you will meet someone who will respect, and even share, your views. In a world that is saturated with sexual imagery and conversation, we end up massively underestimating how many people share your values. Its just a normal psychological process that causes this underestimation. A recent large scale survey of Irish youth showed that 16% were still virgins at age 24. That doesn't include those who have had sexual experiences but who have subsequently decided to wait until marriage.

Similarly, you think that a guy who is not a virgin won't necessarily want to wait until marriage. But there are giys out there who, while no longer virgins, have now decided to wait until marriage as a result of a change of heart on the matter.

I am sure that you will meet normal people at these prayer groups. I am not involved in them but I know that there are lots of great people involved in the groups already mentioned. Just remember - even if you don't meet friends you immediately click with the first time you go, don't give up and give it a chance over time.

Boskowski

Benincasa wrote: »

I think this is quite an unfair post which misses the point.

How is it unfair? I am not judging am I?

Benincasa wrote: »

Firstly, I don't see how the decision to wait until marriage would necessarily lead to regret. True, any decision we make in life can lead to regret, but abstaining from sex before marriage is not more likely to lead to regret than other decisions are. In fact, it may lead to less regret - many studies show that a lot of people regret their first sexual experience and wish they had waited a bit longer.

I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way). Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing. In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief and while some people will be happy abiding to it and may find its what they actually want I would advise to be very careful and to go deep into yourself and find out if this really feels absolutely right for you.

Benincasa wrote: »

I agree that love is a wonderful thing, and I think the OP does as well, which is why she has decided to wait. Perhaps she sees that it is too wonderful a thing to share with someone who is not committed to her for life? The decision to abstain, in my own personal experience, is based on the awareness of how wonderful love is, rather than viewing it is something dirty or something to do when bored or looking for companionship.

I believe hat's a contradiction in itself. I believe if someone knows enough about love to know it to be so wonderful then that someone must have experienced love. It is not possible to have an opinion on this subject without having experienced it. And if that someone experienced real, true love and still chose not to pursue it for sexual restraint over religious believes that I would consider seriously unhealthy.

And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.

Benincasa wrote: »

As for your point about the restriction leading to too great a chance of a poor match, what nonsense! It is likely to lead to a BETTER match because the husband and wife will share the same outlook on the world. This is a major component in successful relationships. True, having the same outlook on the world doesn't mean that you are necessarily compatible, or that you would be attracted to the other or even like to spend time in their company, but it does make compatibility more likely than meeting a random stranger in a bar.

I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important. Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.

Benincasa wrote: »

As for the suggestion that she go for counselling, this comment is beneath contempt. The OP shows that she has quite a lot of character and a very healthy self-esteem. She knows she is worth waiting for, and is willing to stick to that. Let's turn the tables and look at it another way - imagine the outrage here if someone suggested that a 24 year old girl go to counseling before she decided to sleep with her boyfriend!

Well I tell you we def'ny had a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if people actually had some sort of sexual education/counselling.
Anyway I think you deliberately misunderstood what I was saying. It is in no way contempt. I didn't imply she had some sort of condition that can be 'treated' through counseling. What I meant was that she should talk this through with a trained, qualified and unbiased third party to ensure this is really what she wants.

Benincasa wrote: »

Singlegirl: stick to your guns. You won't regret it.

That's a big statement on a very big thing in someone elses life. I hope you're fully aware of that. I wouldn't dare to make such a statement. All I'm saying is that the OP should make extra sure of what she wants and then follow through on that.

prinz

Boskowski wrote: »

What I meant was that she should talk this through with a trained, qualified and unbiased third party to ensure this is really what she wants..

The point that Benincasa is trying to make (I think, apologies if wrong) is that very, very few people would suggest such a thing as a trained, qualified and unbiased third party advice if the OP had started a thread about sleeping with someone this weekend.

There have been many such threads on boards and I can't recall a single instance of counselling being advised.

Boskowski

prinz wrote: »

The point that Benincasa is trying to make (I think, apologies if wrong) is that very, very few people would suggest such a thing as a trained, qualified and unbiased third party advice if the OP had started a thread about sleeping with someone this weekend.

There have been many such threads on boards and I can't recall a single instance of counselling being advised.

There is a big difference between sleeping or sleeping not with someone this weekend and and not sleeping with anyone ever until they're married.

I mean seriously guys. There is enough wrecked thirty/fourty-somethings out there who wish they hadn't married their second boyfriend at the age of 22. Its a pretty dangerous thing to be advocating a single-bullet-better-get-it-right approach to life.

prinz

Boskowski wrote: »

There is enough wrecked thirty/fourty-somethings out there who wish they hadn't married their second boyfriend at the age of 22.

There is? I think you'll find that the chances of a marriage between two people who waited lasting are statistically higher than those who didn't, so you should be arguing the other way.

Boskowski

prinz wrote: »

There is? I think you'll find that the chances of a marriage between two people who waited lasting are statistically higher than those who didn't, so you should be arguing the other way.

I don't know. I just find it dangerous to be waiting for THE ONE that may never come and exclude yourself from a very important aspect of humanity in the meantime. Then when THE ONE comes along you haven't got the experience to recognize him as THE ONE in the first place. Or else you let him go three years ago because you wouldn't give him a chance to be THE ONE.

I'm not going to make any further arguments either way.
All I'm saying is...: Please OP be very very sure about what you want to do here. I'm not saying either way is wrong, because we're all different and what may seem wrong to me can surely be someone else's bliss - just be sure that's all.

Edit: I mean she must have doubts, right. Otherwise she wouldn't be here.

Des Carter

Boskowski wrote: »

I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way).

This healthy love-life is a load of crap I mean how do we know whats healthy Theres a big difference between whats healthy and what is "normal" just because the majority of people do somethin it doesnt mean its healthy. And if having multiple partners was healthy why is AIDS and other STDs so common.

Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing.

Ok how the hell is suppressing ones natural urges dangerous if anything its the opposite. Lets face it if we couldnt control our urges we would be no better than wild animals. And apart from sex we are constantly suppressing our urges I mean we dont go around punching people who piss us off or if were in a bad mood. It also plays a part with good manners etc or we dont go around insulting peoples views (this obviously doesnt apply to you as you dont suppress urges but most normal people do).

In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief

I think it was made quite clear on numerous occasions that religion isnt the only reason for making this lifestyle choice.

And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.

True but I think there is a big difference between love and meaningless sex (an argument for another thread)

I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important.

True but so does everyone I mean we all have these filters and preferences For example your limiting yourself if you choose not to date smokers/people you find ugly/people with a criminal record/people who are unemployed/people with lots of tattoos/people with no tattoos/people who drink too much/people with long hair/people with short hair - the list goes on and is different for everyone.

Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.

This sexually compatable thing is rubbish I mean you are saying that a marriage has a better chance if there is two people who dont have anything in common but have good sex than a marriage where two people share the same beliefs and worldviews but only have average sex. Now dont get me wrong good sex is important but even if your not compatable there are plenty of books/websites/advice out there so ye can improve.
Furthermore if ye are both virgins you wont have anything to compare it to so this isnt a problem.

Well I tell you we def'ny had a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if people actually had some sort of sexual education/counselling.

There would be a lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if more people chose to remain virgins till they were married.

sorry for the length and good luck Op.

Angus Og

Singlegirl, don't let it get you down. There are lots of people who feel the same as you. I know people who waited and they are perfectly happy about the decision they made. One couple have had a perfectly happy marriage for over thirty years, so it can happen.

You sound a bit lonely to be honest, and it's easy to wonder if you've done the right thing when you look around and see everyone else having 'fun' or whatever. You will find someone. You're only 24. I know people who are still single in all age brackets, they aren't interested in marriage, they have sex, but they're still lonely.

Don't let life get you down. You'll be fine.

cch

OP can I ask your stance on contraception? Reason being I'm 13 weeks pregnant at the moment and the combination of being exhausted and queasy meant my husband and I have only had sex once since the positive result (hoping the symptoms lift very very soon!! )
So from a practical point of view, if you wait until you're married and then don't use contraception, you probably only have a few months of a "normal" sexual relationship with your husband until it's all turned upsidedown. Which after waiting so long seems to defeat the purpose a bit...
Not sure exactly what my point is, just might be something to think about...

Benincasa

Boskowski: I found your post to be problematic in many many ways. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect your right to it. It's one we will have to agree to disagree on.

I substantially agree with most of what Des Carter wrote, so I will confine myself to a few comments.

How is it unfair? I am not judging am I?

Actually you are judging in many ways. You imply that the decision to wait is unhealthy and repressed. That it will lead to regret and to potentially failed relationships. In any event, judging is not the problem, I found your suggestion about counselling to be most unfair.

I did not say it will necessarily lead to regret, but I believe it is more likely to do so than leading a healthy love-life which had the odd disappointment (which are important too by the way). Because suppressing ones natural urges and feelings is dangerous and so is the whole waiting til marriage for the sake of it thing. In my opinion it is nothing but an unhealthy remainder of an antiquated belief and while some people will be happy abiding to it and may find its what they actually want I would advise to be very careful and to go deep into yourself and find out if this really feels absolutely right for you.

Des Carter was spot on in his statements about our need to control our urges. Look: even in relationships we have to control our urges. cch above posted about a lack of sex in pregnancy. As a result her husband has to control himself. Similarly a married man has to control himself when his wife is ill. And people in commited relationships have to control themselves when they meet someone else that they are attracted to.

The idea that suppressing our urges is dangerous is laughable! In fact, it may be exactly the opposite - this forum regularly deals with people with various sexual problems, addictions, unwanted pregnancies and scares about pregnancy and concerns about STIs. A little bit of self-dominion could avoid a lot of this heartache for many people.

I believe that's a contradiction in itself. I believe if someone knows enough about love to know it to be so wonderful then that someone must have experienced love. It is not possible to have an opinion on this subject without having experienced it. And if that someone experienced real, true love and still chose not to pursue it for sexual restraint over religious believes that I would consider seriously unhealthy.

Nobody has advocated not pursuing love. It's perfectly possible to pursue love and decide not to sleep with someone until they are married.

And love is never dirty. Only someone whose head was messed with by religion would even use the word dirty and love in the same sentence.

I've never heard somebody with a religious motivation describe love as dirty. I am not quite sure what you are implying here. What I said was that anybody who thinks that those who abstain before marriage think love or sex is dirty are badly mistaken. We don't.

I would absolutely argue the other way. You limit yourself to such a small sample - the OP does even realize this - that when you eventually find someone who ticks that box your judgement on that person will be clouded and the agreement on that thing is likely to outweigh things that are equally important. Sexual compatibility for instance is a very important aspect of a successful relationship. And there is more people out there you are only so-so or not at all compatible to than the other way around. It is really difficult for me to understand how people in this day and age still advocate to let themselves in for a potentially unpleasant surprise.

Des Carter dealth with this quite well. My only comment is that relying on the "in this day and age" argument is really lame! "This day and age" has absolutely nothing to do with it one way or the other. Are you suggesting that, because lots of people seem to be sleeping around "in this day and age" that we all need to do so in order to be just like everyone else?

But if you insist in using the "this day and age" argument, fair enough. I will indulge you. What "this day and age" tells us is that STIs are increasing rapidly year on year. That there are lots of broken hearts - and families - as a result of sexual unfaithfulness. That science shows the powerful role of oxytocin in forming premature emotional bonds between casual sexual partners. That a majoroty of people regret early sexual activity. And that the people who consistently report the most satisfying sex lives are those who waited until marriage to have sex.

Because of the huge social changes in sexual habits of the last 50 years we know a lot more in this day and age about sex than we did before. And this evidence actually supports the OP's position.

That's a big statement on a very big thing in someone elses life. I hope you're fully aware of that. I wouldn't dare to make such a statement. All I'm saying is that the OP should make extra sure of what she wants and then follow through on that.

I am quite somfortable telling the OP that she should stick to her position. I did. My wife did. Many of my friends did. None of us have any regrets. And, before you suggest that we might have any regrest in the future, I don't think so. We really think that waiting was one thing that made our relationship stronger and allows us to trust each other 100%.

LegacyUser

Op here.

Some of the posts are very interesting. As for the counselling suggestion I can assure whoever said it I don't need it. I am a perfectly normal person. I understand some people might believe that people who have this abstinence view might have some underlying issues but no not me.

Dudara & cch: My decision isn't based on religious reasons. I thought it was but now that I think about it more its not. I do go to mass but like everyone else I would have problems with the Catholic Church and the current scandals. The contraception issue in marriage that you refer to cch won't be a problem because I don't belive everything the church says. I would have a fear of stds and pregnancy but thats not the main reason either. I just don't think its right ( for me) to sleep with loads of people. I think sex is important and you shouldn't just sleep with anyone. ( This is only my view and obviously everyone thinks different and I respect this.)

Boskowski: As for the regret in later years I would regret it more if I slept with someone and it was just meaningless.

Benincasa: I agree with everything you post. I know that i have made the right choice. I was questioning it a little bit recently because I met a guy I really like but if he doesn't respect my choices well then I know now he is not the one for me.

Boskowski

Well we obviously come from two very different angles and while I'm very content with how and why I arrived at my position - so are you. We have to agree to disagree.
If nothing else I'm glad the OP heard a different opinion.

Actually I changed my mind on this. I'm not happy to disagree. I think on second and third time reading your post that you're pushing some sort of reactionary agenda disguised as rediscovering virtues from the past or something.
I haven't got the time right now to address your post in detail but you're trying to make me and my opinion appear in a certain light which I'm not happy with.

Benincasa

Boskowski wrote: »

Well we obviously come from two very different angles and while I'm very content with how and why I arrived at my position - so are you. We have to agree to disagree.
If nothing else I'm glad the OP heard a different opinion.

Actually I changed my mind on this. I'm not happy to disagree. I think on second and third time reading your post that you're pushing some sort of reactionary agenda disguised as rediscovering virtues from the past or something.
I haven't got the time right now to address your post in detail but you're trying to make me and my opinion appear in a certain light which I'm not happy with.

I completely reject the notion that I have some sort of "reactionary agenda". Indeed, it is you in fact who is quite blatantly trying to paint my opinion in a "certain light".

I have not told people that they must live the way I choose to live. I am not imposing an agenda on people. Nor indeed am I suggesting that they should go for counselling. I am giving advice based on my own life and based on my reading of our collective cultural experience of the last 50 years. You, clearly, desire to live your life in a different way. That is entirely your affair, and I wish you luck with it. I respect your decision and I genuinely wish you well in your life. It is clear that your position is the majority position in our culture, although not perhaps as much of a majority as you might think. I hope that your decisions bring you happiness. I have no desire to impose any agenda on you, nor indeed, could I ever hope to succeed in doing so if I wanted to.

Where I do have a major disagreement with you is in your characterisation of the OP and of others, like me, who have similar values. Unfortunately you have chosen to use fairly tired cliches in your argument/advice. The latest is to call me reactionary! What a laugh! How does this nonsensical name calling help this discussion?

As for virtues of the past, I'm sorry, but they are virtues of the present. People are living them NOW. True, not in the same numbers, but it does happen.

My advice to the OP remains the same - it is possible to meet somebody who shares your values AND who will be compatible with you in other ways as well. Don't give up hope even if it seems difficult at times.

Zaph

Boskowski and Benincasa, take it to PM if you want to continue a discussion with each other.

Boskowski

Zaph wrote: »

Boskowski and Benincasa, take it to PM if you want to continue a discussion with each other.

Admittingly gettin' a bit ratty last night, after a good night of sleep I was going to suggest to end it here myself. Clearly not helping the OP plus going nowhere. Thanks for reminding me Zaph.

All the best to the OP.