DART Underground delayed until 2018

Son of Stupido

Dudes and dudettes...

IMO MN and the interconnector WILL be built for the following reasons

1. It will never be cheaper to build them
2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low
3. They will bring huge tax revenues to the state off the construction phase and create a lot of employment
4. They are hugely popular projects with the general public

From personal experience the main reason people are against MN is they still seem to think it will cost the government €5 billion out of the day to day budgets. The fact some politicians trot this out as well says a lot about the general intellligence of our representitives.

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

AlekSmart

Son of Stupido sez...

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

Dumb,dumber and dumbest...I`m sorry SoS but nothing thus far has provided me with any indication that we are not currently Governed by the single least intelligent Cabinet since Intelligence was made compulsory....:o#

2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low

This alone should be causing some concern as if we are to go on the current TOP SECRET PPP arrangements for the M3 (Hi Noel ) there is a considerable pay-back for the Private Sector "Risk Takers"....some risk there alright !!

Zebra3

Son of Stupido wrote: »

Dudes and dudettes...

IMO MN and the interconnector WILL be built for the following reasons

1. It will never be cheaper to build them
2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low
3. They will bring huge tax revenues to the state off the construction phase and create a lot of employment
4. They are hugely popular projects with the general public

From personal experience the main reason people are against MN is they still seem to think it will cost the government €5 billion out of the day to day budgets. The fact some politicians trot this out as well says a lot about the general intellligence of our representitives.

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

They may be popular with the genral public of the Dublin area, but imagine the outcry from the "Dublin gets everything brigade" outside the Pale if both major projects were to be given the go ahead in a recession. That'll be upper most in any politican's mind, never mind the greater good. :mad:

D.L.R.

Zebra3 wrote: »

They may be popular with the genral public of the Dublin area, but imagine the outcry from the "Dublin gets everything brigade" outside the Pale if both major projects were to be given the go ahead in a recession. That'll be upper most in any politican's mind, never mind the greater good. :mad:

Fianna Fail and their country bumpkin brigade are in total denial about Dublin being Ireland's primate city.

Deal with it, build for it, and enough of this decentralisation crap. All this about the "east-west imbalance". What a load of codology. Ireland is a country not a weighing scales.

JHMEG

D.L.R. wrote: »

Fianna Fail and their country bumpkin brigade are in total denial about Dublin being Ireland's primate city.

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!:pac:

D.L.R.

JHMEG wrote: »

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!:pac:

great, another FF spatial strategist...

ardmacha

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!

We in Armagh have the Primates. Dublin has the clowns.

dRNk SAnTA

A 3 year delay to 2018! That seems very distant! If they're already almost at Railway Order stage, and the money is available, then what the hell will take 8 years! That is a ridiculous length of time.

popebenny16

KC61 wrote: »

To clarify this, at the time the 22K rosters were changing every time new sets were being introduced so there was no set pattern as to when trains were going to Portlaoise.

When sufficient sets were introduced to allow for the 2210 service to Portlaoise to be guaranteed every night it was introduced.

to further clarify it, there were sufficient sets in service at the time Mark Gleeson was saying this.

popebenny16

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Other than providing a merc for Dempsey to haul himself and his golf clubs around the country why do we have a Minister for Transport when CIE/NTA and the Dept of Finance make all the policy decisions anyway ????

How government works, innit. The real joy is the fact that it was on his own website and no one in his department bothered to brief him. Maybe they should be hearing from him too.

The real thing in this is why does CIE want to push this back. What are they trading off here?

Sponge Bob

I think a lot of it is that they are waiting to see the much delayed Bord Pleanála decision on Metro North ...which has taken a lot longer than originally anticipated by the RPA and which has led up some strange alleys.

They will have to ensure they research report cover all the kinds of queries raised by an Bord P re: MN before they appear there.

Then there is the missing link of quad track between Inchicore and Park West which makes a mockery of the whole plan and where they have not even started public consultations.

monument

JHMEG wrote: »

I didn't realise that DART Underground actually comprises several things which are distinctly over ground.

The Dart Underground is just one -- key -- part of the overall Dart expansion project.

JHMEG

monument wrote: »

The Dart Underground is just one -- key -- part of the overall Dart expansion project.

What I meant is "DART Underground" is the name of the project which includes the electrification of the Maynooth line etc. Why it's not a saparate project baffles me.

monument

JHMEG wrote: »

What I meant is "DART Underground" is the name of the project which includes the electrification of the Maynooth line etc. Why it's not a saparate project baffles me.

The elements are being treated as septate projects. Unless something has changed recently the electrification on overground lines is not coming directly under the Dart Underground project.

JHMEG

monument wrote: »

The elements are being treated as septate projects. Unless something has changed recently the electrification on overground lines is not coming directly under the Dart Underground project.

Not my understanding. Maynooth electrification is part of the DART Underground project, not a standalone project.

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/DART_Underground.html

Sponge Bob

JHMEG wrote: »

Not my understanding. Maynooth electrification is part of the DART Underground project, not a standalone project.

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/DART_Underground.html

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

After all how can you run a Dart train without electricity ????

monument

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

After all how can you run a Dart train without electricity ????

It looks like I could have been wrong, but it was my understanding both were separated but interlinked projects like the Kildare Route Project and the Interconnector are. All of these and other elements are a part of the overall Dart extension project.

Sponge Bob

Interconnector always included the electrification component, the only major change since it was first announced is that the portion from Inchicore to Heuston need not be electrified if the Dart trains are in a tunnel from Inchicore to Heuston as was decided last year.

There is some speculation as to whether electrification to the north may stop at Balbriggan not Drogheda and as to whether the Dunboyne spur will be electrified.

Hungerford

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is some speculation as to whether electrification to the north may stop at Balbriggan not Drogheda and as to whether the Dunboyne spur will be electrified.

I suspect that electrification will go as far north as Drogheda - there are no proper terminus facilities at Balbriggan and there's no room for even a siding there now. I suspect they learned their lesson from Malahide.

There are only three realistic terminuses on the Northern line for Dart services - Skerries, Drogheda and Dundalk. Skerries would be suicide politically, Dundalk has lots of space but is probably too far whereas Drogheda has lots of space, is a reasonable distance from Dublin and has its own depot too, which could partly be converted to handle some of the Dart fleet.

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

Yeah, I don't really care about them tho

Actually I'd be happy with the Maynooth service remaining diesel if it ran a bit later and a wee bit more frequently off-peak.

Typewriter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

After all how can you run a Dart train without electricity ????

http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p64668134.html

Mark200

green_jesus wrote: »

http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p64668134.html

Weird! I was at Pearse at the time that picture was taken.... I remember seeing that train.

dowlingm

I'm of the view that Heuston electrification should be planned for in the post 2020 timeframe - eventually one would hope that electrification will encompass at least some non-interconnector trains.

As for the 22K sets etc. - JC could have said "it's actually in the works" - instead she tried to make him look like some kind of spoofer. Perhaps one day IE will realise that RUI is a good thing for them - but not any time soon!

Stonewolf

Electrification of the lines in question should be going ahead in advance of the interconnector. Or have we put off the order for all the new EMUs until 2018 too?

oharach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Interconnector always included the electrification component, the only major change since it was first announced is that the portion from Inchicore to Heuston need not be electrified if the Dart trains are in a tunnel from Inchicore to Heuston as was decided last year.

It would be madness not to electrify Heuston – Inchicore. Otherwise there would be nowhere for DARTs to terminate during maintenance, or other closures of the tunnel.

Sponge Bob

Twould be a bit difficult to raise bridges in the 'gullet' eg this one

thetool

if Fine Gail get in they will privateiseeverthing, including the civil service, all to keep them in the luxury they think they deserve!

dynamick

From today's Irish Times...

Bids for Dart underground sought

OLIVIA KELLY

BIDS TO construct the Dart underground from Dublin’s Docklands to Inchicore have been sought by Iarnród Éireann just one week after the company announced a three-year delay in the project.

The 7.6km underground line, which will link Heuston Station to the Dart line, was due to open in 2015. Iarnród Éireann last week said it did not now expect the project to be completed until 2018.

A spokesman for the company yesterday said the original timeframe had been set in 2007 when the line was due to terminate at Heuston Station. The subsequent decision to extend it to Inchicore meant there would be 40 per cent more tunnelling than had been proposed.

There is more...