DART Underground delayed until 2018

Son of Stupido

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0505/dart.html

Run_to_da_hills

Bailing out Greece is going to take a lot longer than three years.

Max Power1

pity that 1.3 bn couldnt have been kept in Ireland rather than bailing out greece - it would have gone 2/3rds of funding this for example

paulm17781

Remains a priority but has been put back 3 years. :rolleyes:

At this stage, I don't expect to see it ever.

Cookie_Monster

paulm17781 wrote: »

At this stage, I don't expect to see it ever.

This.

By the time this recession is over it'll be cheaper to buy out all the buildings and bulldoze a street level line though Dublin than bury it.

Sponge Bob

I am unsurprised, hopefully they complete part of stephens green station as part of Metro North. The missing link of quad track west of Inchicore also needs sorting out.

Zebra3

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I am unsurprised, hopefully they complete part of stephens green station as part of Metro North. The missing link of quad track west of Inchicore also needs sorting out.

Hard to believe he's going ahead with MN before the IC....

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey previously described the 7.6km underground rail link as the most critical piece of public transport in the State.

JHMEG

I didn't realise that DART Underground actually comprises several things which are distinctly over ground.

The DART Underground project involves (i) the electrification of the Maynooth line, the Kildare line (to Hazelhatch) and the Northern line to Drogheda and (ii) the acquisition of electric railcars for use on the newly electrified lines.

That's a balls. Maynooth line is long overdue for electrification.

Sponge Bob

It was comedy Gold on Drivetime this evening as Mary Wilson gently pursued a rather abrupt and ratty Jane Cregan (Creegan?) who is a sidekick of Barry Kenny in the agitprop department. It will be online fairly soon, about 10 minutes into the program ( 4:40 pm)

On the lines of

Mary , 'why did you lot not bother telling dempsey its 2018 not 2015'?
Jane, 'whats done is done water under the bridge lets move on now'

I near crashed my tram

KenHy

Just after looking at Wikipedia on the topic and see that they no longer plan to replace the current docklands station with a new one connecting with the LUAS for the DART. Is there any maps with this allingment? when did they decide that?

Hungerford

Are these people accountable to anyone? This must be around the fifth or sixth time in the past year that they haven't informed the minister of something fundamental.:rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Hungerford wrote: »

This must be around the fifth or sixth time in the past year that they haven't informed the minister of something fundamental.:rolleyes:

Like a three years delay the biggest transport project in the history of the state as it happens :rolleyes: . Jane Cregan sounded like she had put it all behind her and was moving on. Dempsey should do the same

Sponge Bob

The Drivetime Interview

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetime/ click Latest Show icon and then play in Real Player. The Jane Cregan interview starts at 11:50 and she only promised to tell Dempsey "within the coming days" .

Judgement Day

Poor old Jane - what a clueless bint, makes Barry Kenny seem like Einstein. What all of them seem to overlook is that Dempsey and the Greens are destined for the wilderness for the next 10-15 years and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that FG will proceed with this crazy plan. Don't forget it was the same CIE that brought you Rail Plan 80; 201 class locos; 22000s with no SDO etc.etc......I wouldn't trust them with a Hornby set.

fitzyshea

Why would Fine Gael not go through with it?

Zebra3

fitzyshea wrote: »

Why would Fine Gael not go through with it?

Not sure on the IC but I'm prety certain Enda Kenny said he won't build the MN if he gets into power.

Though he does favour extending the WRC. :rolleyes:

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Drivetime Interview

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetime/ click Latest Show icon and then play in Real Player. The Jane Cregan interview starts at 11:50 and she only promised to tell Dempsey "within the coming days" .

Jeez I can't listen to any more of that interview. Every second word literally is "am" or "ah". Surely if you're going to be hired into a PR role you should be able to think and speak clearly.

Judgement Day

fitzyshea wrote: »

Why would Fine Gael not go through with it?

Given that Fine Gael were opposed to the original DART lines being developed and have a pathological hatred of spending taxpayers money on anything, I think it is highly likely that CIE's grandiose plans will be consigned to the dustbin once a new government is formed.

Mark200

Anyone else worried that they'll forget that they need space in the tunnel for trains to go both ways?




:pac:

Run_to_da_hills

Mark200 wrote: »

Anyone else worried that they'll forget that they need space in the tunnel for trains to go both ways?




:pac:

They could do it on the cheap.

Have one tunnel with passing points at each station.

dynamick

Dempsey says it's the first he's heard of a delay. I hope he's lying and not that badly out of touch.
http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/dempsey-cautions-irish-rail-over-statement/

DWCommuter

dynamick wrote: »

Dempsey says it's the first he's heard of a delay. I hope he's lying and not that badly out of touch.
http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/dempsey-cautions-irish-rail-over-statement/

I find this hard to believe. The Dept. website had it clearly stated that it was delayed to 2018 many weeks ago. There's a thread on here somewhere with the link. Sponge? You had it. Yes?

Transportuser09

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They could do it on the cheap.

Have one tunnel with passing points at each station.

Laugh now but thats exactly what happened with the cross city rail link in Belfast 15 years ago!

DWCommuter

dynamick wrote: »

Dempsey says it's the first he's heard of a delay. I hope he's lying and not that badly out of touch.
http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/dempsey-cautions-irish-rail-over-statement/

Looks like Dempsey is either a tool or he doesn't want the news public. On April 4th last on the infrastructure forum a link was posted that showed the Governments PPP tender site clearly listing that the DART tunnel was to start construction in 2012 with a completion date in 2018.

Here's the link;

http://www.ppp.gov.ie/ppp-projects

Once that page opens click on the other link and scroll down to number 45. Its all there in black and white. I thought we all knew.:D

DWCommuter

From Newstalk.

The Transport Minister has revealed he was not told of an announcement by Irish Rail to delay a major project in Dublin – even though he was with the company’s board this morning.
The targeted completion date for the underground DART link is now being moved out to 2018, with Irish Rail blaming “planning delays”.
Noel Dempsey has told the Dáil he was with the board of CIE this morning, and they said nothing about what they ended up announcing at lunchtime.
And Minister Dempsey says planning can’t be to blame and he is furious that Irish Rail could announce any policy decisions.
“I don’t know how the statement could be made in relation to planning because – again, if I’m wrong I’ll stand corrected in relation to this – but I understand that the statement that was made that because of delays in the planning process that it was likely to go out to that time” he said.
“But I don’t know how anybody could make a statement like that – because nobody knows how long it’s going to be in the planning process”.
“But if the company is deciding off it’s own bat that it’s going to re-order government priorities, they’ll be hearing from me” he added.

Ah yes. IE trying to cover Government ass and Government not realising that IE are trying to cover their ass, despite it being Government knowledge that 2018 is the revised date.

Credibility out the door. Thank you.

BluntGuy

“But if the company is deciding off it’s own bat that it’s going to re-order government priorities, they’ll be hearing from me” he added.

I can't wait to see what happens when Dempsey works his magic.

I expect the diggers out there next week.

dowlingm

wasn't Jane Cregan the one who rubbished Mark Gleeson on the radio for suggesting service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings just before, er, IE introduced service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings? :rolleyes:

DWCommuter

dowlingm wrote: »

wasn't Jane Cregan the one who rubbished Mark Gleeson on the radio for suggesting service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings just before, er, IE introduced service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings? :rolleyes:

Yup.

Cookie_Monster

Mark200 wrote: »

Anyone else worried that they'll forget that they need space in the tunnel for trains to go both ways?

:pac:

isin't it a separate bore for each track anyway?

Sponge Bob

DWCommuter wrote: »

Ah yes. IE trying to cover Government ass and Government not realising that IE are trying to cover their ass, despite it being Government knowledge that 2018 is the revised date.

First time I saw this. Dempsey has been quangoed by two of his very own quangos

The PPP spreadsheet you linked from March is a Dept of Finance document ( another feckin quango called the NDFA also publishes ppp updates on its websites) but that emanated from the Central PPP Unit Department of Finance Government Buildings

It seems the dept of Finance and CIE BOTH knew the project completion was delayed until 2018 and NOBODY bothered to tell Dempsey

FURTHERMORE the contact person for the Interconnector PPP is Derek O'Neill, National Transport Authority, 59 Dawson St. Dublin 2 so another of Dempseys quangos, recently set up by Dempsey so he could always blame someone else for his own uselessness did not bother to tell him either.

Other than providing a merc for Dempsey to haul himself and his golf clubs around the country why do we have a Minister for Transport when CIE/NTA and the Dept of Finance make all the policy decisions anyway ????

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

wasn't Jane Cregan the one who rubbished Mark Gleeson on the radio for suggesting service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings just before, er, IE introduced service trains to Portlaoise in the evenings? :rolleyes:

To clarify this, at the time the 22K rosters were changing every time new sets were being introduced so there was no set pattern as to when trains were going to Portlaoise.

When sufficient sets were introduced to allow for the 2210 service to Portlaoise to be guaranteed every night it was introduced.

Son of Stupido

Dudes and dudettes...

IMO MN and the interconnector WILL be built for the following reasons

1. It will never be cheaper to build them
2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low
3. They will bring huge tax revenues to the state off the construction phase and create a lot of employment
4. They are hugely popular projects with the general public

From personal experience the main reason people are against MN is they still seem to think it will cost the government €5 billion out of the day to day budgets. The fact some politicians trot this out as well says a lot about the general intellligence of our representitives.

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

AlekSmart

Son of Stupido sez...

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

Dumb,dumber and dumbest...I`m sorry SoS but nothing thus far has provided me with any indication that we are not currently Governed by the single least intelligent Cabinet since Intelligence was made compulsory....:o#

2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low

This alone should be causing some concern as if we are to go on the current TOP SECRET PPP arrangements for the M3 (Hi Noel ) there is a considerable pay-back for the Private Sector "Risk Takers"....some risk there alright !!

Zebra3

Son of Stupido wrote: »

Dudes and dudettes...

IMO MN and the interconnector WILL be built for the following reasons

1. It will never be cheaper to build them
2. They are being financed by private monies (MN anyway) so yearly budget costs are very low
3. They will bring huge tax revenues to the state off the construction phase and create a lot of employment
4. They are hugely popular projects with the general public

From personal experience the main reason people are against MN is they still seem to think it will cost the government €5 billion out of the day to day budgets. The fact some politicians trot this out as well says a lot about the general intellligence of our representitives.

Whoever is in government, they are not dumb, and I am sure they will sanction these projects.

They may be popular with the genral public of the Dublin area, but imagine the outcry from the "Dublin gets everything brigade" outside the Pale if both major projects were to be given the go ahead in a recession. That'll be upper most in any politican's mind, never mind the greater good. :mad:

D.L.R.

Zebra3 wrote: »

They may be popular with the genral public of the Dublin area, but imagine the outcry from the "Dublin gets everything brigade" outside the Pale if both major projects were to be given the go ahead in a recession. That'll be upper most in any politican's mind, never mind the greater good. :mad:

Fianna Fail and their country bumpkin brigade are in total denial about Dublin being Ireland's primate city.

Deal with it, build for it, and enough of this decentralisation crap. All this about the "east-west imbalance". What a load of codology. Ireland is a country not a weighing scales.

JHMEG

D.L.R. wrote: »

Fianna Fail and their country bumpkin brigade are in total denial about Dublin being Ireland's primate city.

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!:pac:

D.L.R.

JHMEG wrote: »

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!:pac:

great, another FF spatial strategist...

ardmacha

Primate city?! Full of monkeys is it?!

We in Armagh have the Primates. Dublin has the clowns.

dRNk SAnTA

A 3 year delay to 2018! That seems very distant! If they're already almost at Railway Order stage, and the money is available, then what the hell will take 8 years! That is a ridiculous length of time.

popebenny16

KC61 wrote: »

To clarify this, at the time the 22K rosters were changing every time new sets were being introduced so there was no set pattern as to when trains were going to Portlaoise.

When sufficient sets were introduced to allow for the 2210 service to Portlaoise to be guaranteed every night it was introduced.

to further clarify it, there were sufficient sets in service at the time Mark Gleeson was saying this.

popebenny16

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Other than providing a merc for Dempsey to haul himself and his golf clubs around the country why do we have a Minister for Transport when CIE/NTA and the Dept of Finance make all the policy decisions anyway ????

How government works, innit. The real joy is the fact that it was on his own website and no one in his department bothered to brief him. Maybe they should be hearing from him too.

The real thing in this is why does CIE want to push this back. What are they trading off here?

Sponge Bob

I think a lot of it is that they are waiting to see the much delayed Bord Pleanála decision on Metro North ...which has taken a lot longer than originally anticipated by the RPA and which has led up some strange alleys.

They will have to ensure they research report cover all the kinds of queries raised by an Bord P re: MN before they appear there.

Then there is the missing link of quad track between Inchicore and Park West which makes a mockery of the whole plan and where they have not even started public consultations.

monument

JHMEG wrote: »

I didn't realise that DART Underground actually comprises several things which are distinctly over ground.

The Dart Underground is just one -- key -- part of the overall Dart expansion project.

JHMEG

monument wrote: »

The Dart Underground is just one -- key -- part of the overall Dart expansion project.

What I meant is "DART Underground" is the name of the project which includes the electrification of the Maynooth line etc. Why it's not a saparate project baffles me.

monument

JHMEG wrote: »

What I meant is "DART Underground" is the name of the project which includes the electrification of the Maynooth line etc. Why it's not a saparate project baffles me.

The elements are being treated as septate projects. Unless something has changed recently the electrification on overground lines is not coming directly under the Dart Underground project.

JHMEG

monument wrote: »

The elements are being treated as septate projects. Unless something has changed recently the electrification on overground lines is not coming directly under the Dart Underground project.

Not my understanding. Maynooth electrification is part of the DART Underground project, not a standalone project.

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/DART_Underground.html

Sponge Bob

JHMEG wrote: »

Not my understanding. Maynooth electrification is part of the DART Underground project, not a standalone project.

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/DART_Underground.html

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

After all how can you run a Dart train without electricity ????

monument

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

After all how can you run a Dart train without electricity ????

It looks like I could have been wrong, but it was my understanding both were separated but interlinked projects like the Kildare Route Project and the Interconnector are. All of these and other elements are a part of the overall Dart extension project.

Sponge Bob

Interconnector always included the electrification component, the only major change since it was first announced is that the portion from Inchicore to Heuston need not be electrified if the Dart trains are in a tunnel from Inchicore to Heuston as was decided last year.

There is some speculation as to whether electrification to the north may stop at Balbriggan not Drogheda and as to whether the Dunboyne spur will be electrified.

Hungerford

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is some speculation as to whether electrification to the north may stop at Balbriggan not Drogheda and as to whether the Dunboyne spur will be electrified.

I suspect that electrification will go as far north as Drogheda - there are no proper terminus facilities at Balbriggan and there's no room for even a siding there now. I suspect they learned their lesson from Malahide.

There are only three realistic terminuses on the Northern line for Dart services - Skerries, Drogheda and Dundalk. Skerries would be suicide politically, Dundalk has lots of space but is probably too far whereas Drogheda has lots of space, is a reasonable distance from Dublin and has its own depot too, which could partly be converted to handle some of the Dart fleet.

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As is electrification to Drogheda and to Hazelhatch and to Dunboyne(I think)

Yeah, I don't really care about them tho

Actually I'd be happy with the Maynooth service remaining diesel if it ran a bit later and a wee bit more frequently off-peak.