Damaged Speed Ramps - Rush, Co Dublin

eddiem74

I am just wondering if anyone is aware of whether the county council plans to do anything with the speed ramps in Rush which are beginning to break apart at the edges, resulting in cars having to take various manoeuvres to get over/around them in order not to damage tyres.

Nearly all ramps from Whitestown Road to the Main Street seem to need repair, replacement, or maybe removal that I can see. No idea how much these cost to install, but there lifespan seems to have been limited, and it looks like maintenance will be costly.

Anyone know/hear anything?

Martron

you should contact fingal roads dept. i have found them quite helpful in the past regardingin other issues. i have had dealings with fingal on other mnatters around the town and it was implied ( so not guarenteed) that there will be a few jobs done in june onwards.

but by taking funny routtes. my car is to low to stradle a few of the bumps so i have to drive with one wheel up on the so it either brings me extremely close to the wall or on coming traffic.

eddiem74

Martron wrote: »

you should contact fingal roads dept. i have found them quite helpful in the past regardingin other issues. i have had dealings with fingal on other mnatters around the town and it was implied ( so not guarenteed) that there will be a few jobs done in june onwards.

but by taking funny routtes. my car is to low to stradle a few of the bumps so i have to drive with one wheel up on the so it either brings me extremely close to the wall or on coming traffic.

Martron, I see this a lot lately too, cars straddling the ramps or drivers trying to decide; do I cross lanes or risk losing a mirror by clipping a wall? Dangerous stuff !

No issues with calling them, I've been on to them in the past on and off for potholes on our road, however its been hit and miss getting action. Email or voicemail gets nowhere, getting a voice on the phone usually gets action, especially if they have a record of you calling before. Or making a fuss to the main Fingal Office (as a neighbour done) seems to also get action.

I guess the sad thing here is the amount of money spent on these ramps, and now the fact they are falling apart. I am not even sure we needed them or at least so many of them, the town seems to have gone ramp crazy over the last few years !

Martron

the ramps i believe are needed.

the material they were constructed out of i think was not the correct material. and the cold weather really did accelerate this process of degradation.

its not really and expensive job but its more costly now as it was not done correctly.

Bluetonic

eddiem74 wrote: »

I guess the sad thing here is the amount of money spent on these ramps

How much was spent on them?

eddiem74

Martron wrote: »

the ramps i believe are needed.

the material they were constructed out of i think was not the correct material. and the cold weather really did accelerate this process of degradation.

its not really and expensive job but its more costly now as it was not done correctly.

I agree some ramps are needed, not sure quite so many. But hey, we have them now. I think the material used is not that great alright as we can see now, and I recall reading somewhere else some time back, that often when such ramps are installed they don't always meet the proper specifications in terms of size, height, etc., although I am not sure in this case.

Bluetonic wrote: »

How much was spent on them?

No idea, but it was a contracted outfit from what I recall who installed them. Perhaps it was cheaper than the thousands I am assuming. (Note to self don't be making assumptions )

indie armada

noticed this too recently in rush and in other parts of the north dublin area inc up from the sailing club in malahide and in swords. i would hazard a guess it began during the heavy snow and it seams to only affect the type with the red concrete imprint.

Wishbone Ash

Apart from the unusually colder winter weather, it appears that the edges of the imprinted concrete were laid on top of the existing road rather than digging out a piece for a better foundation. Hence the reason why the edges appear to be breaking up.

(PS - apologies for being pedantic but they are speed cushions - not ramps. Ramps extend all the way across the road. .)

Martron

i had a look at them today and you are nearly right wishbone ash. Red asphalt is more expensive than the black stuff and the construct the main part or bulk of the ramp out of the cheaper black stuff and then coat it in the red stuff. what appears to has happened is that they have not created a deep enough layer at the tie in to the raod and it basically could not handly the traffic.

but even the only speed ramp we have is coming up too.

focus_mad

From the looks of a few of the speed "cushions" in Malahide they's going to do more damage then good. How can a competent "designer" happily let these cushions be built knowing that they won't stand the test of time?

I think it's a perfect example of how some Irish Councils think, we'll construct it like this, it won't last long and we'll end up spending more money to repair i but sure F**K IT :mad:

Morpheus

Same thing in balbriggan, the red ramps AND cushions (we have both) are all coming apart at the edges and wreck your car even at very low speeds.

FCC need to sort this out ASAP.

Maybe we can rename this thread to "Damaged Speed Ramps Fingal" and then people can contact council and also point them in this direction to view the publics opinions and also gt the locations of any offending ramps??

but then again, that would be seen to be proactive

which is against council policy

focus_mad

Alan Farrell is on this so it'd be no harm getting him onboard?

Beasty

focus_mad wrote: »

Alan Farrell is on this so it'd be no harm getting him onboard?

Alan does post here in a personal capacity, and this is not a place for lobbying politicians. I would suggest you PM him or contact him directly if you have any specific questions or issues to raise.

Beasty

focus_mad

Beasty wrote: »

Alan does post here in a personal capacity, and this is not a place for lobbying politicians. I would suggest you PM him or contact him directly if you have any specific questions or issues to raise.

Beasty

Wasn't lobbying him I was just saying that since he does post on this (be it on a personal or professional note) he may find this interesting and wish to contact the affected residents..

LeoB

We actually need more of the ramps in Rush. The ramps we have just created rat runs along South Shore Rd and Rogerstown and the Lowere Main Street

Dont know the technical details but I have seen the ramps being installed out at centra and they did take up part of the road but these ramps semed to be falling apart not just where they meet the roads but in different spots on the ramps. Its like the mix used was not right and they could not take the amount of H.G.V and big farm machinery they have to handle.

Is it not time they done away with these cushions and installed metal ramps like some industrial estates.....

focus_mad

LeoB wrote: »

Dont know the technical details but I have seen the ramps being installed out at centra and they did take up part of the road but these ramps semed to be falling apart not just where they meet the roads but in different spots on the ramps. Its like the mix used was not right and they could not take the amount of H.G.V and big farm machinery they have to handle.

Is it not time they done away with these cushions and installed metal ramps like some industrial estates.....

Towards the bottom of the link (below) it states the details of the ramps' necessary construction
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/si/0032.html

The problem with some of the rubber ramps is that with too much traffic over them they can become dislodged..

This may be of interest to everyone
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/speed-ramp-case-threatens-deluge-of-damage-claims-303066.html

oh and you could do this off the speed ramps in Ballymun so maybe we're lucky

Lamper.sffc

From what I have noticed. The ramps have been degrading even before the cold spell. (although it did speed the process up) So obviously they where of poor quality. How long have they been down at this stage? 3 years maybe?

The other point I would like to make is the poor construction of the ramps. Especially the one (beside centra) on the way out of the town towards Lusk. I tend to drive over the middle of it when its clear to do so, due to the fact of it being too high and not having a proper curve to it. If you go over it on the left going out and right coming in, it feels like you are mounting a curb. Its been like this ever since it has been constructed. Iv seen plenty of other drivers go over it in the middle so I cant be the only one to have noticed it. Just consider the quality of the ones in Loughshinny and compare them to the crap outside centra.

Wishbone Ash

focus_mad wrote: »

Towards the bottom of the link (below) it states the details of the ramps' necessary construction
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/si/0032.html

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

....... the one (beside centra) ...........ones in Loughshinny

It's interesting that the Statute Instrument states that a ramp shall not be constructed on a bus route, yet as lamper has referred to, there is a ramp outside Centra on the Whitestown Road and another ramp at the crossroads in Loughshinny.

I know in the past, Dublin bus were very opposed to ramps because of the damage they did to buses, hence the reason for speed cusions on many bus routes but perhaps their attuitude has changed.

Many years ago, at the request of residents, the old EHB installed ramps in the avenue of St Ita's Hospital in Portrane. They had to remove them again as Dublin bus refused to operate the 33B route via the hospital.

LeoB

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I know in the past, Dublin bus were very opposed to ramps because of the damage they did to buses, hence the reason for speed cusions on many bus routes but perhaps their attuitude has changed.

Many years ago, at the request of residents, the old EHB installed ramps in the avenue of St Ita's Hospital in Portrane. They had to remove them again as Dublin bus refused to operate the 33B route via the hospital.

While Dublin bus are not the ones the ramps are aimed at surely if the bus were not travelling to fast the ramps or speed cushions would cause no damage, thus they are doing what they are needed for slowing people down. It has been mentioned here before in other threads the problem there is with speeding in Rush, and other Fingal towns.

Just noticed today the ramps/speed cushions have really deteriorated over the past few weeks.

sdanseo

Definately the recent cold did something to these ramps - I reckon when they froze they lost their integrity completely. There's some fatastically deep ruts in some of the ones here in Malahide that aren't even that old (5 years maybe less).

I reckon they're crap anyway - slow you down unnessecarily on roads where traffic has to go slow anyway, and then are left out totally on the roads that really need them. There should be a better way of slowing traffic in estates - maybe chicanes like in the UK? (que consant beeping and moaning about right of way of course)

Alan Farrell

focus_mad wrote: »

From the looks of a few of the speed "cushions" in Malahide they's going to do more damage then good. How can a competent "designer" happily let these cushions be built knowing that they won't stand the test of time?

I think it's a perfect example of how some Irish Councils think, we'll construct it like this, it won't last long and we'll end up spending more money to repair i but sure F**K IT :mad:

With all due respect, I don't think its right to blame the Council when they did not construct the ramps/cushions. The Council paid an expert contractor to do the job.

The Council bought a product which is not fit for purpose and a countywide investigation has been initiated by the Transportation Department of the Council at the request of myself and other Councillors.

Beasty

Alan Farrell wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think its right to blame the Council when they did not construct the ramps/cushions. The Council paid an expert contractor to do the job.

The Council bought a product which is not fit for purpose and a countywide investigation has been initiated by the Transportation Department of the Council at the request of myself and other Councillors.

So was it the "expert" contractor or the "product" that was not fit for purpose (or both)?

EDIT - I would add we seem to be going down exactly the same route with the current pothole repairs, with the standard of finish very poor (sometimes dangerous) and the possibility that another cold winter will leave some of them in a worse condition than before the current round of repairs

Alan Farrell

Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention Eddie.

The Council have initiated a county wide investigation into this matter as the damage caused during the cold snap at the start of the year has caused catastrophic damage to the hundreds of ramps installed over the last couple of years.

The Council meeting at the Howth/Malahide area committee (found here http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/site/webcasts.php?l=en_GB) shows the debate regarding the issue and my own contribution.

I am hopeful that a report of some value will be issued in due course and remedial action can take place as soon as our budget allows it.

Once I have the report, I'll be sure to post it up here.

Alan Farrell

Beasty wrote: »

So was it the "expert" contractor or the "product" that was not fit for purpose (or both)?

I wouldn't like to prejudge the findings of the report and I'm no engineer, but I would be swaying towards the product being the issue.

eddiem74

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention Eddie.

The Council have initiated a county wide investigation into this matter as the damage caused during the cold snap at the start of the year has caused catastrophic damage to the hundreds of ramps installed over the last couple of years.

The Council meeting at the Howth/Malahide area committee (found here http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/site/webcasts.php?l=en_GB) shows the debate regarding the issue and my own contribution.

I am hopeful that a report of some value will be issued in due course and remedial action can take place as soon as our budget allows it.

Once I have the report, I'll be sure to post it up here.

Thanks Alan, can you let me know in which meeting (date?) it was discussed?

Wishbone Ash

Alan Farrell wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think its right to blame the Council when they did not construct the ramps/cushions

I'd have to disagree with you there Alan. Regardless of whom FCC employed, they are responsible. If you checked into a hotel and the sheets/towels were of very poor quality, you'd hold the hotel responsible, not the linen supplier.

I accept that some matters only arise with time but I, as an unqualified private citizen, see things all the time which are incorrect, irregular or illegal. Surely qualified FCC engineers can spot this and refuse to 'sign off' on work done by private contractors.

sdanseo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you there Alan. Regardless of whom FCC employed, they are responsible. If you checked into a hotel and the sheets/towels were of very poor quality, you'd hold the hotel responsible, not the linen supplier.

I accept that some matters only arise with time but I, as an unqualified private citizen, see things all the time which are incorrect, irregular or illegal. Surely qualified FCC engineers can spot this and refuse to 'sign off' on work done by private contractors.

Only if the hotel hadn't replaced the defective towels as soon as they figured out there was a problem.

That's why how quickly the council acts to fix this problem is important. Funding issues really aren't good enough, it should be spent and billed to the original contractor. After all, if a product is defective in a shop, you get a refund or replacement.

Beasty

sdonn wrote: »

Only if the hotel hadn't replaced the defective towels as soon as they figured out there was a problem.

That's why how quickly the council acts to fix this problem is important. Funding issues really aren't good enough, it should be spent and billed to the original contractor. After all, if a product is defective in a shop, you get a refund or replacement.

In the current economic climate I don't think this is realistic. The council could end up forking out for repairs, only for the "defendent" to then claim the evidence has been destroyed, leaving the taxpayer footing the bill. Alternatively any organisation that is found responsible may no longer be trading, leaving potentially costly disputes with insurers

The problem with outsourcing this type of work is there can be a temptation to cut corners in order to increase profits. However the defective workmanship and/or products may only come to light several years down the line. What seems to be lacking is an adequate system for monitoring the quality of work at the time it is undertaken

focus_mad

In regard to the ramp "design", I had to specify ramps to be constructed on a job and I ended up having to bring the client to a number of different ramps to drive over before he decided which ones he wanted!!!

Now if its as simple as that and then they are built to the EXACT spec, how come the Council when the ramps were built say, nope they are wrong pull them up and re-do them???

sdanseo

focus_mad wrote: »

In regard to the ramp "design", I had to specify ramps to be constructed on a job and I ended up having to bring the client to a number of different ramps to drive over before he decided which ones he wanted!!!

Now if its as simple as that and then they are built to the EXACT spec, how come the Council when the ramps were built say, nope they are wrong pull them up and re-do them???

Because if corners were cut or substandard materials were used then the company that built them reneged on their contract to provide ramps - they're meant to last more than 5 years y'know.

Of course to may be that the company had no knowledge that the materials used would faii, so catastrophically at low temperatures like those we saw in December and January - but I find that hard to believe and harder to accept as an excuse. Even if the council specified the exact mixture of asphalt or concrete or whatever is used, the company should have known it wouldn't last and had a moral obligation if not a legal one too to inform them. It's just not good enough to say "ah but it's what they asked for". That's like me asking you to wash my car with acid, blind to the fact that it would damage it, and you doing it anyway and taking my money.

Granted, in the above scenario, a head would need to be smacked (but not roll, I disagree with firing people over sily mistakes, its an abomination) in the roads department too.

At the end of the day, these ramps come out of taxpayers' moeny, we're entitled to be dissatisfied that whoever is responsible has taken our money and provided a product whose sole use now is to damage our cars :rolleyes:

the_syco

Beasty wrote: »

So was it the "expert" contractor or the "product" that was not fit for purpose (or both)?

Would it be possible that the expert contractor knew that his services would be called back once a year to fix his inadequate bumps, or how would the contract be awarded?

Martron

well a few things to say.

firstly the contractor like any company have a warrantly over there work. ususally only a year. these ramps are now i would imagine the councils problem.

also these stamped red asphalt ramps/bumps are relatively new technology. i suppese they worked in other contries possibly without such a range of weather. unfortunatley they did not wok out well here ( how ever i dont not personally think they were installed 100%. i have worked on various road projects and using the minimum specs for theose roads i dont thin our cushion/ramps adhere to it)

and finally. i was talking to a local TD .He told me FCC has the money and he said they have a budget of like 250 million euro. He said they have more money today than they did 3 years ago. and this year they never made a program of works. and this in my understanding is why nothing is being done.
i am open to correction as i am only saying what i have been told froma politician.

Alan Farrell

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you there Alan. Regardless of whom FCC employed, they are responsible. If you checked into a hotel and the sheets/towels were of very poor quality, you'd hold the hotel responsible, not the linen supplier.

I accept that some matters only arise with time but I, as an unqualified private citizen, see things all the time which are incorrect, irregular or illegal. Surely qualified FCC engineers can spot this and refuse to 'sign off' on work done by private contractors.

Hi Wishbone, missed your post. I was not suggesting that the Council have no responsibility, I was suggesting that a county wide investigation is to take place and it would be premature to judge the results of this investigation before it happens.

I didn't suggest that the material used were substandard when installed, therefore your hotel example doesn't work with this particular example.

Corsendonk

Can I buck the trend and actually ask for the removal of some of the ramps around Rush? I at one time use to work in Ballyfermot were local residents would tell you about the high amount of car crime and joy riding in the area. So the council brought in speed ramps to combat this, did Rush have the same issue? I dont remember the gardai chopper flying over much trying to chase down car thieves like in Ballyfermot. But Rush now certainly has more speed ramps than Ballyfermot. More isn't always good especially considering they have to be maintained and repaired each year! Good placement is more important.

Martron

its not always about car crime.

some parts of rush are narrow and it reduces the speed.

but i would like to see some repair work as the one at the bustop at the church is a nightmare to get over it. my car can straddle it and there is a bit missing. if there is traffic i have to go real close to the wall. very hard to navigate that section.

removal i dont think is necessary. repair definately is.

and as alan said its a country wide problem. the old tarmac ramps around the city are holding up well its these red ramps are really gone to the dogs. everywhere

Corsendonk

Martron wrote: »

its not always about car crime.

some parts of rush are narrow and it reduces the speed.

Well the two main areas of overkill the Whitestown rd or the Channel rd could never be called narrow. I would much rather have a policing presence in the mornings to stop the wacky races from Rush to Blakes Cross when all the sleepy heads get up late for work.

Martron

well you can hardly race in the morning to blakes cross!

Corsendonk

Ohh some very talented buddying Formula one racers in this area dont you know! Some haven't worked what the double white line down the centre is for or what an indicator is but when they spot a gap .......


The Lusk bypass after the nursing home is a favourite with alot of them. The Garda do a speed check the odd time during the day but 7-9am would be ideal. In the UK the various policing districts get to keep the money from the speed cameras to fund there costs. Nice incentive for them.........perhaps we should do the same here.

Martron

Corsendonk wrote: »

Ohh some very talented buddying Formula one racers in this area dont you know! Some haven't worked what the double white line down the centre is for or what an indicator is but when they spot a gap .......


The Lusk bypass after the nursing home is a favourite with alot of them. The Garda do a speed check the odd time during the day but 7-9am would be ideal. In the UK the various policing districts get to keep the money from the speed cameras to fund there costs. Nice incentive for them.........perhaps we should do the same here.

yeah its hard to know what to do . garda presence is a good deterant . but again its not a high priority i would imgine in there eyes because pedestrian safety is the reason for the low limits in these areas. so the risk or pedstrian accident on the lusk bypass is fairly low in fairness.

i know the main road is 80 kph. and is ropey road but there is nowhere really where a speed trap could be set up . possible at the furniture shop.

but anyway. i dont think its a viable option to remove the ramps. its justs as easy to repair the ramps with proven material that lasts as long as it does in other parts of the city . rather than taking ramps up. ( probably equal amounts of work involved but no need removing safety equipment because of a very small maintainance fee ( well its large at the minute becasue they need replacing but using the right material will make it low maintainace)

Corsendonk

I am not asking for all of them to be removed, just some of them were they have gone overkill. Parts of Rush look like someone bought a job lot of speed ramps and they had to stuff the last few somewhere. Remove the ramps that arn't needed.

Anyway most of the accidents in Rush seem to be in the main street or on the Rush-Lusk or Rush- Skerries Rds so surely we should be putting more
preventive measures there rather than in the areas with lower rates.

Perhaps are councillor friend that posts here can provide us with the accident figures on the Channel Road which required I think 8 speed ramps, surely they used statistical information before going to such large capital expense to ensure our money was well spent.

LeoB

Try the Main Street any morning from 5.30. The speed is frightening. Cars ignoring red lights. It beats me how we have not had lives lost. I would gladly accept a ramp around where I live.

Martron

i dont really see people objections to speed bumps/cushions in any built up area. you can do any speed anyway . and as leo said people skip the red lights at the extravision. all times during the day. speed bumps will stop that.

funnily ennough the best speed killer is the parked cars outside walshs.

anyway beside the point some of the bumps are in desperate condition. was on to fingal about it. and as alan farrel said fingal are aware of the problem.

(have to say i am quite impressed with fingal lately. goes to show what a few emails can do, especially when yyou follow them up)

Martron

i meant to say you cant tdo any speed during the day anywaY.
( IT WONT LET ME EDIT THE OTHER POST FOR SOME REASON) ah caps. jaypers

Corsendonk

Sounds like the garda should do a few early morning stings at the lights in the main street. Breaking red lights is a criminal issue after all.

And it goes back to my point that its like the wacky races leaving Rush in the mornings. Some people think the speed limit is like a bus lane, only exists between the hours of 9-7. The speed ramps are really a cop out(pardon the pun) better policing of speeding during the main communte hours of 530-930am is what is needed.

LeoB

The Gardái done some speed checks down on the Lr. Main St a few years ago and it slowed cars down quite a bit but it really seeems bad at the moment. Last weekend in particular was the worst in about 2 years.

The channel Rd needed something done as it was like a speedway by times and since these ramps have gone in the problem has moved to South Shore Rd.

Nothing beats a Garda presence and if they were doing it and getting to keep some of the money for new and better equipment like the U.K I am pretty sure we would see results pretty quick. Apart from speeding fines culprits should also have their name in the paper.

Martron

Corsendonk wrote: »

Sounds like the garda should do a few early morning stings at the lights in the main street. Breaking red lights is a criminal issue after all.

And it goes back to my point that its like the wacky races leaving Rush in the mornings. Some people think the speed limit is like a bus lane, only exists between the hours of 9-7. The speed ramps are really a cop out(pardon the pun) better policing of speeding during the main communte hours of 530-930am is what is needed.

surely speed bumps would negate the need for speed policing as cars would not be able to speed over them . as for the main road although you say its like a race you rarely get about 60 in the mornings on that road.

the main problem is that road is not wide enough and there is many bends which people cut. the one at the mill boils my blood as people drive straight towards oncoming traffic to skimm a few metres off the turn.

also buses stop and block people. there is no way of enforcing the speed on that road safely unless you install a fixed camera. the garda presence in rush really has increased recently but maybe ita a matter of time untiol they task gards to do more speed checks.

Corsendonk

The naming and shaming of offenders is a good idea but i think you be surprised by some of the names caught out! I will await the headline in the local rag complaining how the humiliation of getting caught when they had an emergency has put peoples jobs in jeopardy. Not there lack of ability to plan there journey properly and safely while also putting there fellow citizens safety at risk. A certain amount of social responsibility rests with each individual. So complain to the garda that people are breaking lights before someone cuts a car in half some morning! As Leo said last time the Garda did speed checks he noticed the change. To borrow from the english "'Nothing beats the bobby on the beat"

LeoB

Nothing like having your name in the Fingal Indo to take the wind out of their sails.

At the time we had speed checks down here a number of residents complained and something was done about it. We now have a dedicated traffic corps based in Santry I think and I am sure a few calls would would see results.

I wrote to a number of T.Ds and Fingal C.C and suggested ramps be put close to the entrance of the estates on Main St as I felt and still feel someone is going to badly hurt trying to get out of one of these. The speed I see in the morning is just frightening. I am in work about 5.50am and cars, vans and lorries go speeding up the street. The ramp on the Main St is to far away from the traffic lights imo should be about 40 meters closer and their should be one at the entrance to the Mall on Skerries Rd and one outside the Michael Collins.

eddiem74

Just bumping this thread to see if anyone knows whether there are any plans yet to sort out the ramps in Rush yet ?

Corsendonk

I haven't heard anything, do the speed ramps in Garristown I noticed are in a worse state so it must be a whole Fingal wide problem. The Channel Rd needs a 3ton restriction in the area to reduce the damage from the heavy trucks hitting them at speed.

Cassidy28

Fingal county councils problem:P:D:D:D