Solution for Darndale??...or other undesirables?

Crow92

So I'd like to hear if anyone here could think of a viable way of solving the scumbaggery which occurs through Darndale or places as such, i only say darndale as i live there?

Everyone hates scumbags and their disrespectful offspring but how to solve it?

Sort of got spurred on to make this tread after walking home the other day to see a woman in her 40/50's coming out of her house, walking 20 metres to a green and throwing/ smashing a bag full of bottles onto the grass.



And no, a nuclear bomb or buldoser won't solve the people?

thetonynator

Sterilisation???


* It's a joke btw . . .

orourkeda

A Kick in the bollix

landsleaving

Improved town planning. A reduction in the volume of homes built per area. Decentralisation of industry. Reallocation of affordable housing to different areas and in smaller numbers to decrease the chances of a ghetto emerging.

Increased police presence and adequate sentences for crimes.


Oh wait, no, it's after hours. KILL THE SKANGERS.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

You know in a lot of these places it's only a handful of people that ruin the area. Most are decent folk. It's unfortunate really.

Where crime is involved then a zero tolerance policy should be introduced, but I never had a problem with "hanging around" or the likes, you know?

orourkeda

landsleaving wrote: »

Improved town planning A reduction in the volume of homes built per area. Decentralisation of industry. Reallocation of affordable housing to different areas and in smaller numbers to decrease the chances of a ghetto emerging.

Increased police presence and adequate sentences for crimes.


Oh wait, no, it's after hours. KILL THE SKANGERS.

That's better

L.Jenkins

Serious question though, how would ya deal with them without encouraging them to what they love more, scumbaggery and violence.

Crow92

I know most people say it's only a small number but it's weird here, it seems to of basically spread to the kids, i've been told to F*^k off by numerous kids less that 6 years old.
The only children who seem to have any respect appear to be foreign children

The way i see Darndale is

15-20% Scumbags

30-40% How-ya-wat's that are infected by the scumbags

55-40% Good people trying to get on....and out of there

orourkeda

djhunter30 wrote: »

Serious question though, how would ya deal with them without encouraging them to what they love more, scumbaggery and violence.

Unfortunately these people only understand one language.

They are not open to reason and don't deserve sympathy. If they attack you the only real option is to attack them back.

The criminal justice system will not help you.

peanuthead

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65697190#post65697190

Nervous Wreck

The reason places like Darndale get like that is simple city planning. Look at the area in itself. It's a tiny little corner that's tucked away from everywhere. There are no main roads going through, no business and no reason at all for anyone who doesn't live there to venture through. Just a group of houses looking at each other, shoved away in the corner, hidden from the outside world. As such, the kids in the area seldom have to deal with outsiders from the rest of the world. So they play with other kids from the area all day. When kids play with kids away from the overseeing eyes of the adults, there is no law. When there is other human traffic, parents make sure that their kids are well behaved. But when the only people who see your kids are your neighbours (whom you're probably relatively close with being that it's such a small locale), they become like family and, as such, you don't keep the kids on such a tight leash. As such, the kids become accustomed to this lawless society that they'll never actually independently venture out of until they're teenagers and want to go to town or the cinema or whatever. By this stage, they've grown up for years doing and saying what they want with no regard for outside persons. Littering doesn't phase them because everyone they know does it and, if you see your elders doing something, you assume it's okay.

I'm too tired to continue. :P The cause basically is a lack of positive and regular social integration.

kravmaga

Crow92 wrote: »

So I'd like to hear if anyone here could think of a viable way of solving the scumbaggery which occurs through Darndale or places as such, i only say darndale as i live there?

Everyone hates scumbags and their disrespectful offspring but how to solve it?

Sort of got spurred on to make this tread after walking home the other day to see a woman in her 40/50's coming out of her house, walking 20 metres to a green and throwing/ smashing a bag full of bottles onto the grass.



And no, a nuclear bomb or buldoser won't solve the people?

If your from Darndale who may know that it won an Architecture award from Europe in 1974.

Unfortunately it is a failed social experiment as Dublin County Council back in the 1970's put in the wrong type of tenant, ie Lower Economic social classes.

Due to poor estate management by the old council the result is what you see today and its associated problems, drug addiction, alcoholic's, mental health problems, high crime rate.

So to answer your question there is no short term solution in my opinion.

L.Jenkins

orourkeda wrote: »

Unfortunately these people only understand one language.

They are not open to reason and don't deserve sympathy. If they attack you the only real option is to attack them back.

The criminal justice system will not help you.

Well, if they're intent on providing you a thumping, then don't sit around and take it. It doesn't help matters if you play them at there own game, "An idiot will always drag you down to there level, then beat you with experience!"

peanuthead wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65697190#post65697190

Someone planning on fixing matters themselve eh?

Mint Sauce

didn't darndale feature in a christy moore song

Crow92

blueeyedboy wrote: »

If your from Darndale who may know that it won an Architecture award from Europe in 1974.

Unfortunately it is a failed social experiment as Dublin County Council back in the 1970's put in the wrong type of tenant, ie Lower Economic social classes.

Due to poor estate management by the old council the result is what you see today and its associated problems, drug addiction, alcoholic's, mental health problems, high crime rate.

So to answer your question there is no short term solution in my opinion.

I never knew it won an architecture award, strange

I actually knew about it being a social experiment and wrote about it last month for my aptitude test for architecture,

Does anyone think like in ballymun that a facelift would change anything?? or would it just be a nice looking kip?

L.Jenkins

irish-stew wrote: »

didn't darndale feature in a christy moore song

Should be included as part of the next Dublin City Marathon, the sound of the place would improve race times drastically.

Crow92

peanuthead wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65697190#post65697190

I said nothing nuclear;)

kraggy

Proper sentencing and making parents responsible for their children by financially penalising them for the antics of their children who are under 18 years of age.

They wouldn't be long pulling them inside off the street if they thought they'd be fined for any shenanigans.

But this policy should apply everywhere, not just Darndale.

L.Jenkins

Crow92 wrote: »

Does anyone think like in ballymun that a facelift would change anything?? or would it just be a nice looking kip?

Cillit bang might wash away the scum, but it will always be a kip, facelift or not.

Seloth

Allot of places seem to have names for being scum holes but infact arent.

Such as the town I live by for instance...It was recently callled a pit of violence by a judge which in turn was Headlined in the county paper because of an a man was bludged enar death by two men after a scuffle...two men who were infact not from the town.

It seems whenever there is trouble there,with the few fights I've seen around the nightlife to involve people that are not from the locality.While it is true there is some tottal low lifes they are in the very minority like most places.

In Cork city in a area where myself adn friend shang out,theres a kid whos 11-12 that keeps going around jumping on peoples backs and when ever youtell him to Eff off he talks about how he'll get his family down and such,I honestly can see him growing up to be one o those people you see going around the city.

Obviously parents,schools and friends are the biggest influence,I think in certain areas schools should be more seperated with ages groups as while innocent at one age they may pick up the habbits of old classmates.And as stated above finance penaltys on parents would be a good idea,but a more fitting punishment should be placed on the child as well,not just curfews but say things such as volunteer work and ban on driving,I know this would have certainly made several people I was in school with cop on if they knew misbehaving would stop them from driving.

bonerm

I'm seeing .... ghetto walls + express train.

hotmail.com

Don't forget about the scumbags in suits - a lot of them work in banks and in Leinster House and aren't from Darndale.

Lone Stone

Ah darndale use to live there when i was a little kid , Got mugged by a gang of pikies one morning walking home from a friends house there once to,

Some nice people live there but the place is a living example of why certin people should never be allowed to raise children, But we all know the real problem with the area is bellcamp

Rented Mule

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”

bonerm

Rented Mule wrote: »

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”

There's nothing to see. I used to live here, you know.

You're gonna die here, you know. Convenient.

Rented Mule

irish-stew wrote: »

didn't darndale feature in a christy moore song

Go, Move, Shift. (but this is only on the Live at the Point recording from '94)

Mary Joyce was living at the side of the road
No halting place and no fixed abode.
The vigilantes came to the Darndale site
And they shot her son in the middle of the night.

Lollipops23

There was a scheme in the mid 80s involving Darndale and other similar corporation areas. There was a grant of 5 grand or something for people to buy houses and free up the social housing. While in theory this sounds great, what actually happened is that the people who were interested in bettering themselves and getting better lives for there families all moved away,leaving just those who wanted to stay put.

Overheal

kraggy wrote: »

Proper sentencing and making parents responsible for their children by financially penalising them for the antics of their children who are under 18 years of age.

They wouldn't be long pulling them inside off the street if they thought they'd be fined for any shenanigans.

But this policy should apply everywhere, not just Darndale.

I agree in theory but in practicality, it would never work, and why you dont see that system implemented anywhere.

I think the points touched on about city planning are entirely square on the head, btw.

peanuthead

Crow92 wrote: »

I said nothing nuclear;)

But you never said please

L.Jenkins

Overheal wrote: »

I agree in theory but in practicality, it would never work, and why you dont see that system implemented anywhere.

I think the points touched on about city planning are entirely square on the head, btw.

Unfortunately, we as society don't seem to be able to properly plan social policy, as domesticated as we are. Maybe we'll need just a few more years of evolution, before conditions are more favourable, until then we can fight all we want about it.

Overheal

djhunter30 wrote: »

Unfortunately, we as society don't seem to be able to properly plan social policy, as domesticated as we are. Maybe we'll need just a few more years of evolution, before conditions are more favourable, until then we can fight all we want about it.

Well if you believe evolution you probably believe in instinct in which Maternal and Paternal insticts dont differ all that much between generations and people. What does change is socioeconomic factors. Unless something is mentally wrong with a person, you can bet social factors are prevalent in poor parenting decisions. Such as, living in a poorly planned (or almost entirely unplanned) neighborhood or dwelling.

What Im saying is its pointless in creating a system to punish poor parenting when you aren't establishing a system to promote good parenting, or establish what good parenting is, or providing the necessary environment to produce good parents. Do you think Somalians would still be ruthless pirates if they had a thriving economic society?

Alkers

landsleaving wrote: »

Improved town planning. A reduction in the volume of homes built per area.

Dublin already has a very low population density so compared to other major European cities so this wouldn't help at all.

Overheal

Simona1986 wrote: »

Dublin already has a very low population density so compared to other major European cities so this wouldn't help at all.

But how does its crime rate stack up.

GeorgeCostanza

Rented Mule wrote: »

Go, Move, Shift. (but this is only on the Live at the Point recording from '94)

Mary Joyce was living at the side of the road
No halting place and no fixed abode.
The vigilantes came to the Darndale site
And they shot her son in the middle of the night.

Christy Moore. What a plonker. I wonder if he'd champion the traveller cause if a load of them camped in his garden for a few weeks...

stovelid

Take your pick:

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=+site:boards.ie+scumbags+boards.ie&ei=pBfgS4DoD46CmwObiL3PCA&sa=X&oi=forum_cluster&resnum=1&ct=more-results&ved=0CAsQrQIwAA&cts=1272977206496

Rented Mule

GeorgeCostanza wrote: »

Christy Moore. What a plonker. I wonder if he'd champion the traveller cause if a load of them camped in his garden for a few weeks...

You might want to read his biography before you make statements like that.

Mister men

You know what amazes me most about places like Darndale is the total lack of responability from the people in those communities. Everyone else is to blame. The government,the council,the developers,the guards,the bankers etc...Go into any average council estate and see the kids running wild until 10pm and later on school nights (not teenagers but childern). Get your kids into bed early and let them get a good nights sleep before school ffs. Here's another tip for the layabouts who inhabit these places. Pick up your rubbish outside your house and look after the general apperance of your community. Look at Ballymun for example. They went on for donkeys years about the flats and where given brand new houses and townhouses at the tax payers expense and yet now a couple of years later the place is peppered with burnt out cars and rubbish.:mad:

These people hold the solution in their own hands they just are to lazy or ignorant to act upon it.

segaBOY

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The reason places like Darndale get like that is simple city planning. Look at the area in itself. It's a tiny little corner that's tucked away from everywhere. There are no main roads going through, no business and no reason at all for anyone who doesn't live there to venture through. Just a group of houses looking at each other, shoved away in the corner, hidden from the outside world. As such, the kids in the area seldom have to deal with outsiders from the rest of the world. So they play with other kids from the area all day. When kids play with kids away from the overseeing eyes of the adults, there is no law. When there is other human traffic, parents make sure that their kids are well behaved. But when the only people who see your kids are your neighbours (whom you're probably relatively close with being that it's such a small locale), they become like family and, as such, you don't keep the kids on such a tight leash.

I see what you mean, I've been living not far from Darndale for a number of years now but I don't think it's all down to city planning, it can't be. I was raised in rural Ireland. My house was really tucked away with no main routes going through-in fact we had no real facilaties whatsoever. Tbh I rarely had to deal with people from outside my school/family/small group of friends which were all located in my isolated area. My parents seldom were able to keep a watchful eye over myself and my friends if we wandered off somewhere (which was almost every day afer school), yet I-or any of my friends for that matter-didn't turn out as a scumbag. Equally not everyone in our group had parents who were well educated/employed just to add to the point. But it didn't turn us into scumbags, bar the odd shenanigans we were pretty well behaved.

I think city planning does have a part to play, sure, but it isn't the be all end all attached to this problem.

Mike 1972

blueeyedboy wrote: »

the wrong type of tenant, ie Lower Economic social classes.

Arent the Lower orders just frightfully dreadful...........

Rented Mule

Mister men wrote: »

Everyone else is to blame. The government,the council,the developers,the guards,the bankers etc...

These people hold the solution in their own hands they just are to lazy or ignorant to act upon it.

<<Paraphrasing your quote here>>

Isn't this what the post-Tiger Ireland has become ?

Mister men

Rented Mule wrote: »

<<Paraphrasing your quote here>>

Isn't this what the post-Tiger Ireland has become ?

Nice play on my post

Rented Mule

Mister men wrote: »

Nice play on my post

They were the points that jumped out at me the most.

Thanks for doing all of the work for me. lol