People With Lots of Academic Qualifications

piby

There I was a guy I was chatting to a few weeks ago whose academic acheivements looked like this on paper:

BA, MSc, Ma, HDip, PGCert, PhD (provisional)

He actually had two PGCerts but I believe that you only write it down once on paper! As if that wasn't enough he was also halfway through his PhD!! In fairness that guy was well into his 40's so he must have worked at some point in his life but it's still an outrageous selection. I mean is it really necessary to have that many?!!

I also know a fair few people who have multiple masters etc. So what the most (academically) qualified person you've ever met?

starbelgrade

I know a few McD's.

thetonynator

I've done my junior cert.

So that makes me a JC.

Leeg17

piby wrote: »

PhD

Teehee, you said a dirty word!!

dr.bollocko

Hahaha.
BA.
Pffft.

RolandIRL

is this guy in his forties? has he spent the last 20 years in college just to get all those qualifications? and now he comes out into a recession. figures :rolleyes:

--LOS--

piby wrote: »

There I was a guy I was chatting to a few weeks ago whose academic acheivements looked like this on paper:

BA, MSc, Ma, HDip, PGCert, PhD (provisional)

Looks like a lot of college lecturers/professors to me.

piby wrote: »

He actually had two PGCerts but I believe that you only write it down once on paper! As if that wasn't enough he was also halfway through his PhD!! In fairness that guy was well into his 40's so he must have worked at some point in his life but it's still an outrageous selection. I mean is it really necessary to have that many?!!

I also know a fair few people who have multiple masters etc. So what the most (academically) qualified person you've ever met?

From that list, he has clearly been working all his life, being an academic is a job, one of the most important jobs imo.

JONJO THE MISER

I shared a house with a Guy once that had never worked a day in his life, he was in his last 30's and was forever going to college, he told me he would never be able to get a job because he was over qualified.

bonerm

piby wrote: »

BA, MSc, Ma, HDip, PGCert, PhD (provisional)

PGCert? Hah!

I once had full sex with a woman. That must make me at least a 16Cert.

Mr. Incognito

I'm BCorpL, LLB, LLM, AITI,

And I'm 27

MagicMarker

piby wrote: »

PhD (provisional)

Can he drive on his own with that?

sam34

whiteman19 wrote: »

is this guy in his forties? has he spent the last 20 years in college just to get all those qualifications? and now he comes out into a recession. figures :rolleyes:

not necessarily

plenty people do part time courses/research while working to add to their qualifications

piby

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can he drive on his own with that?

No he has to be accompanied by a fully qualified PhD until he passes his viva.

stepbar

piby wrote: »

There I was a guy I was chatting to a few weeks ago whose academic acheivements looked like this on paper:

BA, MSc, Ma, HDip, PGCert, PhD (provisional)

He actually had two PGCerts but I believe that you only write it down once on paper! As if that wasn't enough he was also halfway through his PhD!! In fairness that guy was well into his 40's so he must have worked at some point in his life but it's still an outrageous selection. I mean is it really necessary to have that many?!!

I also know a fair few people who have multiple masters etc. So what the most (academically) qualified person you've ever met?

Oh I've met a few.... and the majority I've met are social monks.

take everything

stepbar wrote: »

Oh I've met a few.... and the majority I've met are social monks.

Better than antisocial ones i suppose.

Was that Maynooth?

cson

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'm BCorpL, LLB, LLM, AITI,

And I'm 27

In the words of Andy Gray; take a boo son.

Kasabian

Master Lonad Esq.

--LOS--

sam34 wrote: »

not necessarily

plenty people do part time courses/research while working to add to their qualifications

That's true alright but even excluding those who study on the side, I really don't get this attitude that they are somehow stuck in college their whole life or that they don't have a "job". Phd students/postdocs, guess what, they get paid for that, it is a job. Lecturers might be viewed more as job holders to the general public than the postgrads/postdocs below them but their teaching is a very small part of what they do, they are basically a higher rank of student. Studying and research is one of the most fundamental jobs there is, the most important I think.

stepbar wrote: »

Oh I've met a few.... and the majority I've met are social monks.

Well that's nonsense, I would think quite the opposite, anyone with that many qualifications is generally always lecturing, giving talks/presentations, presenting conferences on a grand scale, they're hardly shy and retiring.

Capt'n Midnight

BSc = Bullshít
Msc = More Shít
PhD = Piled higher and deeper

Seloth

Anyone explain to me what a postgrad primary degree is?

starbelgrade

Seloth wrote: »

Anyone explain to me what a postgrad primary degree is?

Only if you tell me what a tracker mortgage is. :pac:

RATM

Thats nuffin OP. A sister of mine is a consultant in anesthetics and has 27 letters after her name. Signing cheques requires more than the alphabet can offer

I myself have a lot of letters after my name but only because I'm great. In fact I'm so great that I think I should get both of the parachutes:pac:

Conor108

"More degrees than a thermometer" - Ross O'Carroll-Kelly

Scarinae

My Dad has got loads of letters after his name, he has done so many masters courses, many of them paid for by his work because they were relevant qualifications. He also guest lectures on occasion. My brother, however, went straight from his undergrad into a PhD and is graduating this week, which makes him higher up than my Dad.

pickarooney

Seloth wrote: »

Anyone explain to me what a postgrad primary degree is?

The 11-plus? I think they scrapped that a while back.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Can get many qualifications while working. It's always good to learn, plus if you are interested in a subject why not?

jayteecork

I remember in school thinking that if one pursued a Phd s/he had to be a real genius and the idea was you needed to contribute something completely new and amazing to your field of study.

Then I got to college and realised any auld eejit with a 2h1/time can do one.

SugarHigh

RATM wrote: »

Thats nuffin OP. A sister of mine is a consultant in anesthetics and has 27 letters after her name. Signing cheques requires more than the alphabet can offer

I myself have a lot of letters after my name but only because I'm great. In fact I'm so great that I think I should get both of the parachutes:pac:

wtf does she sign her name with, alphabet soup?

YOu do know you're allowed to use the same letter more than once?

Sheeps

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

BSc = Bullshít
Msc = More Shít
PhD = Piled higher and deeper

Is that what your manager told you when you had no customers to serve in burger king?

Sheeps

Congrats on not understanding academia OP.

m@cc@

piby wrote: »

There I was a guy I was chatting to a few weeks ago whose academic acheivements looked like this on paper:

BA, MSc, Ma, HDip, PGCert, PhD (provisional)

He actually had two PGCerts but I believe that you only write it down once on paper! As if that wasn't enough he was also halfway through his PhD!! In fairness that guy was well into his 40's so he must have worked at some point in his life but it's still an outrageous selection. I mean is it really necessary to have that many?!!

I also know a fair few people who have multiple masters etc. So what the most (academically) qualified person you've ever met?

I often wonder if I should have bothered with a BA. Work experience seems to be valued just as much.

hinault

Nothing wrong with people accumulating academic qualifications.

I've always admired people who had the discipline and ability to pass academic exams.

I went the professional exam route, myself.

CrazyRabbit

I think this guy is my opposite.

I have lots of experience, training and knowledge, but little official qualifications.

Eg, I'm proficient in 3 programming languages, have worked as a Project Manager and a teacher (in work), but have no formal qualifications for any of these.

Scarinae

Sheeps wrote: »

Congrats on not understanding academia OP.

In fairness to the OP, there are some people who seem to use academic qualifications as a way to put off entering the real world... I know a girl who is doing a PhD part-time in Classics, it's going to take about 7 years and she is spending much of her time having lie-ins, eating cereal and watching TV in her pyjamas. I don't think she particularly wants to do a PhD, just couldn't think of anything else to do with herself, and her parents seem happy to pay for it (??)

stovelid

- Dem students, Joe. It's like some cunt jammed his finger in a typewriter.

- You're telling me, Mary. And we're paying for it all!

--LOS--

--LOS-- wrote: »

That's true alright but even excluding those who study on the side, I really don't get this attitude that they are somehow stuck in college their whole life or that they don't have a "job". Phd students/postdocs, guess what, they get paid for that, it is a job. Lecturers might be viewed more as job holders to the general public than the postgrads/postdocs below them but their teaching is a very small part of what they do, they are basically a higher rank of student. Studying and research is one of the most fundamental jobs there is, the most important I think.

+1

I don't get this attitude in Ireland that academic research isn't a 'real job'. In other countries, people doing PhDs are respected, over here, people think you're a lazy waster. I don't think people have any idea of the work and motivation required to get one. It certainly isn't the easy option. I'm being paid a salary for my part-taught and part-research course, and my ex is earning about 1400 euro monthly as a PhD student. We both study about 8-10 hours a day, sometimes 7 days a week.

I don't understand how anyone could have 'too many' academic qualifications. You can never be too educated. I'd rather someone was being paid for research than for sitting on their hole watching Sky.

pickarooney

[quote=[Deleted User];65712929]+1
In other countries, people doing PhDs are respected, over here, people think you're a lazy waster.[/QUOTE]

Do you reckon, or are you just saying that for the hell of it?

piby

Sheeps wrote: »

Congrats on not understanding academia OP.

Actually I understand academia very well. I have lots of friends who are beginning their journey into academia by way of PhDs and whatnot. Perhaps I didn't really explain my position on this very clearly. I actually do agree with the mantra of 'Never Stop Learning' and this is how I would live my life too. I have absolutley no problem with people getting lots of qualifications as long as they are not doing it because:

A) They want to put off the real world forever aka. the professional student

They want to be able to say they've done it rather than having an interest in it i.e. a badge collector

In the instance of the gentleman I was talking to I got the impression it was very much B. Maybe I read this wrong but that was my own understanding of what he was saying.

Perhaps the thread title would have made more sense if I'd have named it 'People Who Get Academic Quals for The Sake of It' :rolleyes:

[quote=[Deleted User];65712929]I don't get this attitude in Ireland that academic research isn't a 'real job'. In other countries, people doing PhDs are respected, over here, people think you're a lazy waster. I don't think people have any idea of the work and motivation required to get one. It certainly isn't the easy option. I'm being paid a salary for my part-taught and part-research course, and my ex is earning about 1400 euro monthly as a PhD student. We both study about 8-10 hours a day, sometimes 7 days a week.

I don't understand how anyone could have 'too many' academic qualifications. You can never be too educated. I'd rather someone was being paid for research than for sitting on their hole watching Sky.[/QUOTE]

I don't for one minute believe that either. The many people I know doing PhDs work their ass to the bone, often 6/7 days a week, with little holidays (because it's technically a studentship as opposed to a job!). I have nothing but respect for academics either. It's bloody hard work and it's a long road towards professor! I agree that there's a culture in this country that ties in with our seeming anti-intellectualism that regards doing PhDs as another way of putting off the 'real' world.

I think I've been completely misunderstood here, my fault

Feeona

SugarHigh wrote: »

YOu do know you're allowed to use the same letter more than once?

What? Noe ld m:mad:

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Do you reckon, or are you just saying that for the hell of it?

No, I just made it up. Of course I reckon so. I haven't lived everywhere in the world, but I definitely think education is respected more on the continent, for example. Here, people seem to think working is the only thing that matters. I know for a fact my Irish family think I'm exactly the same as people who sit at home drinking Dutch Gold because I'm a full time student. It gets on your nerves when you spend all day at college and then work part time (as I was doing until this month) and people treat you like a waster. My relatives in Italy and the US are much more positive about my studies, always asking how it's going, what I'm doing, sending cards for graduations and congratulating me on internships. It's not that I expect that. It's just a really huge difference in the way further education is viewed.

I've also noticed a general attitude of begrudgery towards students in Ireland. I get a lot of people saying 'wait til you get out in the real world', without realising I'm 25 and came back as a mature student. People seem really annoyed when I say I found working life an absolute doddle compared to what I'm doing now, as if that couldn't possibly be true. When I was working, my working day was 8 hours long and I had 2 full days off. I earned enough to be able to go on several trips a year, go out every weekend and still save money. Sure, I might now be able to sit at home in my pyjamas some days, but I'm basically never free. I am always working on something. How many people would work 7 days a week in the 'real world' for about 900 quid a month? I love my studies and I'd like to go further, but it sure as hell isn't the easy route.

pickarooney

[quote=[Deleted User];65714147]No, I just made it up. Of course I reckon so. I haven't lived everywhere in the world, but I definitely think education is respected more on the continent, for example.[/QUOTE]

Where on the continent though, and based on what?

Pittens

Credentialism is certainly more respected on the continent. While I call the guy who works with me Mark even though he is a PHD, in Germany I would call him Herr Doctor. All very confusing in German hospitals.

FruitLover

BSc, SSc :cool:






















(Bronze swimming certificate, Silver swimming certificate )

Pittens

People seem really annoyed when I say I found working life an absolute doddle compared to what I'm doing now, as if that couldn't possibly be true.

My tough engineering degree ( wont mention the college) was way harder than anything I have done at work, and I have worked on the release of significant projects ( which i could name) which had to meet deadlines.

By and large I dont work past 7-8, since I am hopeless at later work, and I can wind down easily enough. In college there was always something on my mind, some project undone, something not studied, feelings that I should - after attending lectures and labs - be studying for something or other.

Of course I went out and got pissed a lot too, but often it was a guilty pissed. Also I worked ( i.e. studied) weekends. Have done that about 2-3 times in my life since.

Work, ftw.

Pittens

Totally depends on the degree and the uni, though.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Where on the continent though, and based on what?

France, Germany, Belgium, Spain. Based on the general attitudes I observed towards education and also based on the fact that education counts for a lot more than it does in Ireland. It's commonplace for people to walk into well paid jobs after a degree. The girls I lived with in Spain hadn't worked a day in their lives until they graduated, not even summer or part time work, and they were all working in their field within six months. I know loads of people in Belgium who walked into jobs in the financial sector with good degrees but no work experience. They think it's really strange that in Ireland you spend four years in college and are expected to start at the bottom with everyone else.

I worked in a multilingual call centre for a few months after finishing my degree. Most people there were highly educated, spoke several languages, yet our boss was a 24 year old woman with a Leaving Cert who spoke only English. She got the job because she'd been working in that call centre since she was 17. Almost all the foreign staff said that would never happen at home and they all thought it was quite ridiculous. They expected the boss to be as educated as they were if not more so and they said that in Ireland, people who didn't go to college are rewarded for it and those who did treated like idiots who wasted their time. While I don't agree completely, I think they had a point.

pickarooney

[quote=[Deleted User];65714625]France, Germany, Belgium, Spain. Based on the general attitudes I observed towards education and also based on the fact that education counts for a lot more than it does in Ireland. It's commonplace for people to walk into well paid jobs after a degree. The girls I lived with in Spain hadn't worked a day in their lives until they graduated, not even summer or part time work, and they were all working in their field within six months. I know loads of people in Belgium who walked into jobs in the financial sector with good degrees but no work experience. They think it's really strange that in Ireland you spend four years in college and are expected to start at the bottom with everyone else. [/QUOTE]

My experience is the complete opposite. When I left France after my post-grad there were an estimated 10,000 people with doctorates on the dole and absolutely nobody was hiring graduates. Work experience or friends of Daddy were the only means of getting a job.

There's an elitist respect for graduates of 'grandes écoles' (who invariably have daddies with friends anyway) but this doesn't extend to commoner uni.

I moved to Ireland and walked into a job with a degree but no experience.

I've no anecdotal evidence for Spain, but statistics indicate that the majority of postgrads there are either in the public sector (53%) or on the dole (30%)

Belgian post-grads tend to focus on more industry-relevant subjects, with science and engineering accounting for over 60% of doctorates there. I imagine it's the practical application of their studies rather than respect for their level of qualifications that gets them jobs.

They think it's really strange that in Ireland you spend four years in college and are expected to start at the bottom with everyone else.

I also find that really strange. 'Everybody else' just didn't get a look in any place I was employed in Ireland. A college degree was a minimum requirement. In jobs that have no such requirement, such as call centre work, a degree won't necessarily get you a higher position straight away but I dare say it's the same in any country. It has been in my experience at lease.

Your foreign friends probably did have a valid point. Up until quite recently anyone with a good education working in a call-centre would have been seen as slumming it.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

My experience is the complete opposite. When I left France after my post-grad there were an estimated 10,000 people with doctorates on the dole and absolutely nobody was hiring graduates. Work experience or friends of Daddy were the only means of getting a job.

There's an elitist respect for graduates of 'grandes écoles' (who invariably have daddies with friends anyway) but this doesn't extend to commoner uni.

I moved to Ireland and walked into a job with a degree but no experience.

I haven't as much personal experience in France but my friends there were saying this. Now, they did go to the Sorbonne and other grandes écoles so there is that prestige. I find that my Trinity degree is seen as prestigious and impresses employers abroad (especially in the US) but in Ireland it's nothing special at all.

As for walking into a job, what field are you in? Was it a good job?

I've no anecdotal evidence for Spain, but statistics indicate that the majority of postgrads there are either in the public sector (53%) or on the dole (30%)

Well, it's not really fair to look at current statistics as the country is a mess for everyone right now. I don't think experience vs education is the issue.

Belgian post-grads tend to focus on more industry-relevant subjects, with science and engineering accounting for over 60% of doctorates there. I imagine it's the practical application of their studies rather than respect for their level of qualifications that gets them jobs.

I knew people who did economics, business, foreign languages and still walked into jobs. That's true about the practical application, but I'm doing a practical course here and people still think it's a doss just because it isn't science related.

I also find that really strange. 'Everybody else' just didn't get a look in any place I was employed in Ireland. A college degree was a minimum requirement. In jobs that have no such requirement, such as call centre work, a degree won't necessarily get you a higher position straight away but I dare say it's the same in any country. It has been in my experience at lease.

Where were you working? If it was somewhere that needed a degree, then of course everyone was a graduate but there are still plenty of jobs where a degree isn't necessarily required, but would come in very handy. In the place I worked, a recent graduate with a solid degree in modern languages could have learned that woman's job in a week and done a much better job.

prinz

[quote=[Deleted User];65714625]France, Germany, Belgium, Spain. Based on the general attitudes I observed towards education and also based on the fact that education counts for a lot more than it does in Ireland..[/QUOTE]

Simple. IMO the education particularly third level you get on the continent (my own experience being particularly Germany) far outstrips the standard applicable here.

meditraitor

[quote=[Deleted User];65714625]

I worked in a multilingual call centre for a few months after finishing my degree. Most people there were highly educated, spoke several languages, yet our boss was a 24 year old woman with a Leaving Cert who spoke only English. She got the job because she'd been working in that call centre since she was 17. Almost all the foreign staff said that would never happen at home and they all thought it was quite ridiculous. They expected the boss to be as educated as they were if not more so and they said that in Ireland, people who didn't go to college are rewarded for it and those who did treated like idiots who wasted their time. While I don't agree completely, I think they had a point.[/QUOTE]

You dont see it then, I would hire the 24 year old with 7 years experience every time before some spannish or italian with a degree in language/literature/arts.
Just because you have a degree doesnt make you the right person for the job, graduates in Ireland should know that experience will trump your piece of paper everytime.. but experience and a degree trumps experience. Your collegues obviously didnt have it.

That said I'm all for academia, if your so inclined then by all means get yourself educated to educate...... Ive a couple of mates in their 30's still studying and thats what they do, fair play.....

PK2008

[quote=[Deleted User];65714625]France, Germany, Belgium, Spain. Based on the general attitudes I observed towards education and also based on the fact that education counts for a lot more than it does in Ireland. It's commonplace for people to walk into well paid jobs after a degree. The girls I lived with in Spain hadn't worked a day in their lives until they graduated, not even summer or part time work, and they were all working in their field within six months. I know loads of people in Belgium who walked into jobs in the financial sector with good degrees but no work experience. They think it's really strange that in Ireland you spend four years in college and are expected to start at the bottom with everyone else.

I worked in a multilingual call centre for a few months after finishing my degree. Most people there were highly educated, spoke several languages, yet our boss was a 24 year old woman with a Leaving Cert who spoke only English. She got the job because she'd been working in that call centre since she was 17. Almost all the foreign staff said that would never happen at home and they all thought it was quite ridiculous. They expected the boss to be as educated as they were if not more so and they said that in Ireland, people who didn't go to college are rewarded for it and those who did treated like idiots who wasted their time. While I don't agree completely, I think they had a point.[/QUOTE]

I think a big problem in Ireland is that alot of people who get qualifications assume they should somehow be rewarded in industry(I myself have a masters), or that they indeed are 'qualified'. This is not reality though, industry is all about thoise who 'perform' regardless of qualifications.

Obviously for certain jobs you must be qualified as a regulation but you make a big mistake if you think you deserve more than anyone else based on your qaulifications. Nobody deserves anything, use the qualification to make yourself more competitive but realise that work experience is gold and its all baout the value you bring. Sometimes qualifications can become a handicap for a person, they refuse to think outside the text book and get stuck in an 'entitlement mindset'. One of the top executives at the company I work for used to be a welder, who specialised in fixing bicycles, now he successfully oversees multi billion dollar deals/projects.