Rumor has the irish army are recruiting ?

goldie fish

A baby lieutenant "fresh out of cadet school" will go noplace other than to college.

dodgydes

What colour is the boathouse in Coolmooney Camp?

KickstartHeart

Its actually hilarious to read the stuff that people who weren't suited to the Army spout online about their bad experiences.


I find it particularly hilarious because they go on about the downsides of military training/service as if it only happens in the Irish Army. I have friends in the British Army and they have the exact same quams about it. Infact, the statements of the above two posters whinging about their time in the Army are somewhat near identical to the things that people I know have said about their times in the BRITISH ARMY.

So if the Irish Army isn't a military in any sense then neither is the British Army

If you didn't like your time in the Army then there's an enormous abundance of people who served who will counter what you say and that can admit that the hardship of military training isn't bullying, it has a purpose. If your'e the kind of person who will come online on and be-little the Defence Forces and your time in it, then the training just very simply didn't work on you, or you weren't suited to it.

I'm not targetting any ONE person in particular here, rather a few posters on this site, but if you want to come on here and whine about your time in the Army and maintain the chip on the shoulder about it, then you should think about the fact that if you haven't served in any other military, then you don't GET to say whether the Irish military is 'real' 'not real' 'impotent' or anything along those lines. These are the same gripes that people have about most armies if they weren't suited to their service.

For anyone reading this, when you see the complaints of the previous posters and you ponder whether the Irish Defence Forces is a real military or not, remember too that people who have served in the British Army, which seams to be the grand daddy of all online fanboy idolization, have had the exact same issues as the above posters have had.

Army training is hard, and can seam like your'e being bullied, and hell the instructors may even enjoy it, but it has its purpose, and if it wasn't suited to you, or if you think too much of yourself, then it will seam rediculous, but it is not. Military life when not on operations can seam like boring monotonous hell, but thats military life... in any army..on either side of the Irish Sea, on any contenant, no matter how much of a war fighting army your'e in and no matter what flag you have on your shoulder.

John_D80

goldie fish wrote: »

A baby lieutenant "fresh out of cadet school" will go noplace other than to college.

Incorrect. I know of a few instances where young officers have deferred college for a few years. And there are plenty officers out there who have been recruit platoon commanders as one-pippers.

John_D80

Burdock wrote: »

Any platoon commander I've worked with, and I've been involved with 5 recruit platoons, was a full lieutenant, 'fresh out of cadet school' I think not.

Where'd you train ?? What was your army number ??

I joined in 2000 and call BS on these posts BTW, no enlisted man talks like this.

I'm not in anyway agreeing with the people who have posted gripes here about bullying but you're quite wrong (see my above reply to goldie fish's post).

And dude, do you seriously think he would post his army number for a random stranger to check up on him? Would you? Very silly move if anyone did this.

Oh and what exactly does an enlisted man talk like? Thats the most sweeping generalisation i've ever read.

minidazzler

dodgydes wrote: »

What colour is the boathouse in Coolmooney Camp?

Where is the easiest place to go for a sneaky shag in Coolmoney will get out the ex-RDF lads at least :pac:

pollars4

benwavner wrote: »

Man, there is so much wrong with this post that I dont know where to start. I wont bother pulling it all apart but It actually doesnt sound like you served for all that time, in fact I doubt you served at all.

"People need to know facts before they make decisions", its a pity that you didnt post any facts.

Feel free to PM me your ex number, rank and name, and maybe what unit you served in. I could hold your argument with much more weight.

You served 5 years, were you not signed back on? I find it hard that you were bullied out.

My personal details are not going up on a public forum for anyone to check out. I'm given my experience in the military, my five years of experience and the reason I didn't sign back on after my five year contract ended was because of my experience throughout my five years, why would I?

From reading the posts of others I'm sure the majority of people enjoy or endure military life and I never thought otherwise, but I certainly didn't, my experience was miserable. I loved recruits, and I got best kit, for my trouble, and the reason I didn't get best recruit because I didn't shout as loud as the guy who did get it.

After recruit training things got overly complicated with way to much politics, and 'playing the game' and 'moving the goalposts' as they called it. I was good at my job, enthusiastic and better than most including a lot of the NCO's and that singled me out. I was confident but but not cocky, and it happened all too often that some NCO took a dislike to me because of my ability or enthusiasm. They were like children or a group of gossiping women at times. There was very little you could do not to attract negative attention from dip**** NCO's who on a whim thought I and others were fair game for their behaviour that wasn't the expected robust military type behaviour, it was bullying and nothing else.

I'm no push over I'm 6ft in height and 14 stone, and I'm not intimidated by someone telling me off for doing something stupid which is necessary, - as I said I loved that - in recruits you knew what you had to do and you did it and when you ****ed it up you got thorn apart, but it was part of it, it was preparing you for the service. But what I'm talking about a lot of enlisted men and women have experienced and it has caused a lot of good and capable people to leave after five years. And if your not aware that bullying has been a problem in the Irish army, navy and aircore then google it, and read the reports, the commissioned research and all the other stuff you can find.

You and the others who read these post know all this yourself, and if you don't your in denial. There are enlisted men, and officers too, who have major chips on their shoulders, who don't want to do more than they should, and they can't stand it when others do, it makes them angry and devious, and their are lots of them. They just want to do the 21 and get the pension and burn away the hours in the base. Its these ****s I'm talking about, and when they get position power - rank - then they can do a lot of damage and have done a lot of damage to people. I had depression and anxiety disorder for most of my time since I came out, and I went in a confident intelligent young man and came out a wreck. So I'm entitled to my severe opinion, and I'm entitled to hold a grudge with the military.

In all seriousness though why in Gods name would I make the statements I did if I never served. And it was immature of me to offend which I can't deny that part of my intention was to, but I'm still very bitter over it because all I wanted to do since I was a child was to be in the military, and because of the actions of tools who are of no benefit to the organisation, that was taken away from me. boo hoo right but **** them.

Robust and necessary military training is completely different to bullying, and is immediately apparent when it goes on.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I appreciate that you had a hard time while you "served" but there is just something about your choice of words that dont ring true with being ex military.

I personally have never heard anyone use the term "moving the goalpost" or "burn away the hours in the base", what base? Were you AC or NS maybe? You also spelt Air Corps like this "aircore".

Yes in the past people were victimised and bullied, but that was the old DF. A lot of measures have been put in place since you left, and it is just NOT tolerated anymore. In fact in my opinion, these measures have made the DF a worse environment for soldiers to work in. You have to be very very careful if you have to discipline anyone, or even to pull them aside to have a cautionary word, even if it is to benefit them.

I would like you to PM me the unit you served in, or even what Brigade. It would solidify your case somewhat. Where I have served, your desciption of power mad NCO's and Officers is just not right. I find it extremely hard to believe that you suffered because of your enthusiasm and abilities, if anything, you should be an asset to a unit not a target for bullying.

I dont think you are telling the whole truth here at all. It shouldnt be an issue to PM me those details.

goldie fish

Yup. The basic terminology someone who served, even for a short time, would use is absent from any of your posts.

John_D80

The chap (pollars4) is obviously a knob with a seriously over inflated opinion of himself if he believes that the reason he was singled out repeatedly was for being enthusiastic and having ability. The circumstances of what actually happened and what he chose to believe happened are probably very different in this case I reckon. Have seen countless guys like this come and go through the army in my time. And when they leave they generally have a serious chip on their shoulder towards the Defence Forces when a serious self examination is whats really needed.

But gents, to dismiss someones posts as trolling or lying because they dont use the same terminology or phrases as someone in the military is rather unfair. There are people from a very broad spectrum of backgrounds among the enlisted ranks. In my recruit platoon, the only guy who had a degree was buddied with one of the guys who couldn't read. I know officers who are from the roughest/toughest parts of cork and limerick cities and walk and talk the part as well. Basically guys what i'm getting at is that we are as much a product of our background as we are of our current surroundings.

And its certainly worth noting that pollars4 has been out of the defence forces for 8 years now and was only in it for 5 so i'm pretty sure he's not keeping up to date with the lingo and terminology, in his current civilian life.

I in no way shape or form agree with his post but I certainly cant dismiss them for the same reasons as some. Just because someone puts forward a negative opinion of the DF on this board is no reason to call 'troll' or whatever.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I understand your points John_D80 and you may be right about the guy. I personally think he is a multiple account holder who opened this one to troll.

I know guys who left 10 years ago and only lasted a few weeks of recruit training, they refer to where they served as a "barracks" etc. If he spent 5 hard years in the DF, im sure he knew he spent that time in a Barracks.


"But gents, to dismiss someones posts as trolling or lying because they dont use the same terminology or phrases as someone in the military is rather unfair. There are people from a very broad spectrum of backgrounds among the enlisted ranks. In my recruit platoon, the only guy who had a degree was buddied with one of the guys who couldn't read. I know officers who are from the roughest/toughest parts of cork and limerick cities and walk and talk the part as well. Basically guys what i'm getting at is that we are as much a product of our background as we are of our current surroundings"

^^^I dont know what the above has anything to do with anything^^^

I have no problem with someone posting negative comments about the DF in here, but I would like them to come from someone with experience in the DF, who gave it a good crack and did not leave for an obscure reason.

I find it unlikely that this guy served, if he PM'd me any of the following I would believe him and engage with him properly on here:

• Unit(s) served in
• Exercises completed
• Overseas missions he went on, or could have volunteered for
• What is A7..........The Glen of Imaal kind :cool:
• Courses completed, and where they were held
• What weapon would you find a "Pre-notched, spiral wound, steel wire sleeve" to be part of.

If he cant answer any of these, then he either did not last recruit training or else he is a Walt, just posting to defame the DF.


If he did serve, then I am saddend that such a quality soldier was forced to leave because of bullying and intimidation and would like to converse with the guy and get into the nitty gritty.


But


If he is a Walt, he is spredding an untrue experience and further damaging the reputation of the DF and all who serve(d), without due cause. I feel he should answer one of the above in the interest of transparency.

pollars4

benwavner wrote: »

I understand your points John_D80 and you may be right about the guy. I personally think he is a multiple account holder who opened this one to troll.

I know guys who left 10 years ago and only lasted a few weeks of recruit training, they refer to where they served as a "barracks" etc. If he spent 5 hard years in the DF, im sure he knew he spent that time in a Barracks.


"But gents, to dismiss someones posts as trolling or lying because they dont use the same terminology or phrases as someone in the military is rather unfair. There are people from a very broad spectrum of backgrounds among the enlisted ranks. In my recruit platoon, the only guy who had a degree was buddied with one of the guys who couldn't read. I know officers who are from the roughest/toughest parts of cork and limerick cities and walk and talk the part as well. Basically guys what i'm getting at is that we are as much a product of our background as we are of our current surroundings"

^^^I dont know what the above has anything to do with anything^^^

I have no problem with someone posting negative comments about the DF in here, but I would like them to come from someone with experience in the DF, who gave it a good crack and did not leave for an obscure reason.

I find it unlikely that this guy served, if he PM'd me any of the following I would believe him and engage with him properly on here:

• Unit(s) served in
• Exercises completed
• Overseas missions he went on, or could have volunteered for
• What is A7..........The Glen of Imaal kind :cool:
• Courses completed, and where they were held
• What weapon would you find a "Pre-notched, spiral wound, steel wire sleeve" to be part of.

If he cant answer any of these, then he either did not last recruit training or else he is a Walt, just posting to defame the DF.


If he did serve, then I am saddend that such a quality soldier was forced to leave because of bullying and intimidation and would like to converse with the guy and get into the nitty gritty.


But


If he is a Walt, he is spredding an untrue experience and further damaging the reputation of the DF and all who serve(d), without due cause. I feel he should answer one of the above in the interest of transparency.

I'm very wary of someone currently in the DF looking for my personal information and to PM you does not ensure my anonymity. And I have no interest in getting into this in a public forum or by email just to satisfy your ego as again after five years I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm being obscure in my use of military so not to draw to much attention to myself or my unit, obviously I'm not in the 'Air Corps' and I know nothing about the place but the other two, I know plenty, and I'm entitled to say what I like about the DF as it did me enough damage. Read between the lines and get over the idea that someone would go to all this effort just to troll, sure how could anyone think like that about the beloved defense forces. And in the eight years I have forgotten most of the terminology except the stuff thats burned into my brain like how to strip and clean a Styer, a GPMG, how the action works, and crap like that. I don't remember anything about the myriad of forms that I had to full out, or what kind of wounds weapons caused. And what the **** is a 'walt' I never heard of that. And if I'm "further damaging the reputation of the DF" who has already damaged it, and for what reason. I've got a gripe, and your a cheerleader lets agree to disagree.

John D80 if you want to make this personal, then go ahead but remember their are consequences to everything and to dismiss me as a knob is in itself a bullying tactic. Just because I know myself and my capabilities does that indicate an over inflated opinion of myself. I thought I was a piece of **** with a really low opinion of myself for eight years what does that say about my character. You sound very familiar to the type of character that I would have experienced, dismissing all my behavior with a quick insult for your own end. Below is a publication implemented into the defense forces in 2001, 3 years into my time, now ask yourself why? Was their a problem?

SECTION 6 BULLYING

130. Definition of Bullying Bullying is defined as repeated inappropriate behavior, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment, which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual's right to dignity at work. An isolated incident of the behavior described in this definition may be an affront to dignity at work but as a once-off incident is not considered to be bullying. (Government Task Force on the Prevention of Workplace Bullying,2001)

131. Behaviour falling within the scope of para 130 above constitutes unacceptable behavior in the Defence Forces.

132. Bullying can be perpetrated not only by a superior on a subordinate, but also by a peer on another peer, or by a subordinate on a superior, or by a group to constitute unacceptable behavior.

133. Bullying must be distinguished from the proper use of rank and authority which is necessary to achieve legitimate military objectives. Bullying is, in fact, the misuse of rank and authority. Operational effectiveness requires the Defence Forces to be physically strong and robust and, when needed, to display controlled aggression. This is not achieved by bullying. It is the responsibility of commanders at all levels to protect individuals from both physical and mental intimidation by peers or persons in positions of authority. Initiation ceremonies involving assault, humiliation, intimidation, or the abuse of alcohol are unacceptable.

134. The monitoring, review and evaluation of performance is an essential part of the command function. All superiors are required to effectively monitor the performance of their subordinates. It is the duty of superiors to be open with subordinates about performance, attendance or general conduct. Effective supervision may require critical comments to individuals about issues relevant to their official duties. However, such criticism should not be personalised but directed against the conduct or performance of a subordinate. Bullying does not arise, where critical comments are made in an honest and constructive manner.

135. Examples The list of examples, below, should be regarded as illustrative rather than exhaustive:

Intimidation.
Eyeballing or shouting into a person’s face.
Preventing the victim from speaking by using aggressive and/or obscene language.
Subjecting an individual to unreasonable scrutiny.
Swearing or other forms of demeaning name-calling.
Physical abuse or threats of abuse.
Physically attacking, threatening to attack or acting in a menacing way towards another person.
Gratuitous commenting on the appearance of another person
Setting unreasonable or impossible deadlines or impossible or meaningless tasks.
Unwarranted or disproportionate criticism unsupported by facts of an individual's work performance.
Manipulation of the victim's reputation by rumour, gossip, ridicule and/or innuendo.
Making an individual, his or her beliefs or opinions, the butt of jokes or uncomplimentary remarks which are likely to cause offence.
Social exclusion or isolation; deliberately ignoring or excluding an individual on a persistent basis.
Undermining the authority of a colleague in the workplace.
Manipulating the nature of the work or the ability of the victim to perform the work, for example by withholding information in order to undermine a colleague.


The first lot of these I would consider normal robust military training even if they are now classed as bullying and it never bothered me and in most cases amused me, as the individuals who confront you to your face are the ones you can trust and the ones just doing their job its the latter of these that caused most of the problems. If I had a problem the former I would have left in recruits, its the latter that drove me out after 5 years.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Look man, this has nothing to do with my "ego". It has everything to do with transparency. You cant just come on here and post what you have posted without satisfying the people who are going to read it. You could be some civvy living in a fantasy world posting rubbish for a reaction.

Once again you wont name something specific to confirm that you were a serving member of the PDF. If you are big and bold enough to come on here and tell us all that you were bullied out of the DF, then you could at least answer one of my questions!

It would put an end to all this "tit for tat", and we can get on with the process of discussing what happened to you. The following questions do NOT affect opsec or your anonymity in the slightest!

• What type of boot were you issued?
• What accessories go on your Service Dress No1's?
• What is an L.A 30 Admin?

"I'm being obscure in my use of military so not to draw to much attention to myself or my unit"


^^^^This makes NO sense^^^^


Im looking forward to a proper discussion with you, once I get an answer to these questions.

goldie fish

What's a styer?

Maoltuile

goldie fish wrote: »

What's a styer?

A question someone should ask the DFTC some time!

grasncov

Maoltuile wrote: »

goldie fish wrote: »

What's a styer?

A question someone should ask the DFTC some time!

And what would u know about it?

Poccington

Tone down the language.

grasncov

Poccington wrote: »

Tone down the language.

There was no language in the last post, but I took it down so I wouldn't keep getting warned off. Best of luck

Maoltuile

grasncov wrote: »

And what would u know about it?

More than you apparently, sport.

grasncov

Maoltuile wrote: »

grasncov wrote: »

And what would u know about it?

More than you apparently, sport.

;-) ok