Belgium bans the Burka

weiland79

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100430/twl-belgium-decides-to-ban-the-burqa-3fd0ae9.html

Hmmm not to sure about this one. As is said in the article it could be the start of a slippery slope on infringing peoples basic rights. No more hoodies, baseball caps or headgear in any shape or form.
Do the European courts not withhold the right to reverse this decision?

TheZohanS

They can't do that, they'd have to ban helmets too.

weiland79

well it appears it's been done

Sykk

No more hoodies? I would suggest they implement this one North side, but we all know there would be an epidemic.

Big Nasty

Burka, Burka!

TheZohanS

weiland79 wrote: »

well it appears it's been done

No it hasn't, and where did you get:

No more hoodies, baseball caps or headgear in any shape or form.

from?

You made that up now didn't you?

Deus Ex Machina

weiland79 wrote: »

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100430/twl-belgium-decides-to-ban-the-burqa-3fd0ae9.html

Hmmm not to sure about this one. As is said in the article it could be the start of a slippery slope on infringing peoples basic rights. No more hoodies, baseball caps or headgear in any shape or form.
Do the European courts not withhold the right to reverse this decision?

Slippery slope? It seems to me that this is already a gross infringement of rights. I am not in favour of these idiot death cults, Christianity and the like, but they have the right to practice their religion.

weiland79

TheZohan wrote: »

No it hasn't, and where did you get: from?

You made that up now didn't you?

Of course it wasn't in the article but i believe in people exprssing themselves and if certain people want to wear a Burka then so be it.My point was that if they start with banning the Burka where do thy stop.

weiland79

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

Slippery slope? It seems to me that this is already a gross infringement of rights. I am not in favour of these idiot death cults, Christianity and the like, but they have the right to practice their religion.

Yes i agree a huge infringement,and if you read the article you will see that France are also poised to bring in a similar ban.
Food for the extremists in my view.

TheZohanS

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

Slippery slope? It seems to me that this is already a gross infringement of rights. I am not in favour of these idiot death cults, Christianity and the like, but they have the right to practice their religion.

But western women have to cover up in a lot of Muslim countries, that infringes their rights too.

--LOS--

I don't support banning it outright in a given country but I do take issue with the fact that on going into banks, there's a sign that says to remove helmets, yet I've seen women in burkas in banks, huge contradiction imo.

Deus Ex Machina

TheZohan wrote: »

But western women have to cover up in a lot of Muslim countries, that infringes their rights too.

Tu coque

In what way does the fact that they infringe rights make it acceptable for us to do the same?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

There was a party in Belgium that wanted to implement rules that all women should wear the burka. They have a large number of people from the likes of Morocco so that has a large influence. Now they went to Belgium for work, but if you go looking for work in another country, don't be a cnut about it, respect their rules and don't try change them to suit your poxy ways.

I for one support this action, fcuk them if they think they can go to another country and pressure the government into changing their ways. If you don't like it, fcuk back to where you came from.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TheZohan wrote: »

No it hasn't, and where did you get: from?

You made that up now didn't you?

I think he presented it as a hypothesis rather than fact. Should have had a question mark on the end (who said punctuation didn't matter?).

Abrasax

--LOS-- wrote: »

I don't support banning it outright in a given country but I do take issue with the fact that on going into banks, there's a sign that says to remove helmets, yet I've seen women in burkas in banks, huge contradiction imo.

If a woman is wearing a burka it's probably unlikely she'd be doing the banking in the first place.
Just pass a law banning burkas in banks and government buildings where interviews are to take place.
There's only about 30 women in the whole of Belgium who wear burkas anyway, according to BBC World, so it's hardly a huge problem.
But passing a law like this will add to the alienation of a community and is more food for extemists.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Abrasax wrote: »

If a woman is wearing a burka it's probably unlikely she'd be doing the banking in the first place.
Just pass a law banning burkas in banks and government buildings where interviews are to take place.
There's only about 30 women in the whole of Belgium who wear burkas anyway, according to BBC World, so it's hardly a huge problem.
But passing a law like this will add to the alienation of a community and is more food for extemists.

Maybe you should take a trip to belgium before you believe the crap you here?

Mike 1972

Angie Moldy Police wrote: »

Maybe you should take a trip to belgium

Actually If this law does go through maybe I wont be taking a trip there at all

--LOS-- wrote: »

I don't support banning it outright in a given country but I do take issue with the fact that on going into banks, there's a sign that says to remove helmets, yet I've seen women in burkas in banks, huge contradiction imo.

Take it up with the bank If what other people wear really bothers you so much

Abrasax

Angie Moldy Police wrote: »

Maybe you should take a trip to belgium before you believe the crap you here?

I go there about five to ten times a year on business, to both Antwerp and Brussels.
What's that got to do with my post?
Is BBC World not a credible enough source for you?

finton

Fair dues to Belgium, could never imagine such a decision being made here in Ireland. There would be more marching on the streets about a burka ban than how the people are being enslaved again (move over na sasanaigh, move in fianna fail and co)
To those blinded by political correctness I think its fairly obvious how this came about, if its ok to wear a Burka then it should be ok to wear balaclava's around the place

--LOS--

Abrasax wrote: »

If a woman is wearing a burka it's probably unlikely she'd be doing the banking in the first place.

I have seen this in banks.

Abrasax wrote: »

Just pass a law banning burkas in banks and government buildings where interviews are to take place.
There's only about 30 women in the whole of Belgium who wear burkas anyway, according to BBC World, so it's hardly a huge problem.
But passing a law like this will add to the alienation of a community and is more food for extemists.

I agree, they should at least be included on the sign.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Take it up with the bank If what other people wear really bothers you so much

I am not bothered by what people wear, I'm bothered by the sheer hypocrisy of these banks, visibility is a security issue in banks, nothing more, should we really be excluding muslims from this for fear that we insult them?

ScumLord

--LOS-- wrote: »

I don't support banning it outright in a given country but I do take issue with the fact that on going into banks, there's a sign that says to remove helmets, yet I've seen women in burkas in banks, huge contradiction imo.

Agreed, they've gone to far, whats going to happen on Halloween? Will all the paddys get locked up for wearing fancy dress?

Just make a law that requires them to remove the veil when entering places like banks or government buildings. I'd go as far as to say they should be removed when entering any kind of public premise like a shop too, but not in the promenades of a shopping center. Places where important information and other transactions takes place basically so that your identity can be verified.

prinz

Abrasax wrote: »

There's only about 30 women in the whole of Belgium who wear burkas anyway, according to BBC World, so it's hardly a huge problem.

Doubtful. I remember hearing something on this about Ireland and it was claimed less than 5 women in Ireland wore the full burka. Was up in Stephen's Green a few days later and there were plenty more than 5 knocking about.

--LOS--

prinz wrote: »

Doubtful. I remember hearing something on this about Ireland and it was claimed less than 5 women in Ireland wore the full burka. Was up in Stephen's Green a few days later and there were plenty more than 5 knocking about.

5 my hole, I see it all the time around town too.

enda1

I live in Belgium.
There are to be honest not that many burkas to be seen, nothing like the number you'd see in the UK for example, but 30 seems a bit low.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Actually If this law does go through maybe I wont be taking a trip there at all



Take it up with the bank If what other people wear really bothers you so much

Sorry to hear about that, it's not good to see some people getting screwed over because of some politicians agenda.

Abrasax wrote: »

I go there about five to ten times a year on business, to both Antwerp and Brussels.
What's that got to do with my post?
Is BBC World not a credible enough source for you?

If BBC claim that only 30 women, out of the 10.7 million people that live in that little country, wear the burka, I call bullshít. I suppose there's only a handful of orthodox jews living there too... :rolleyes:

Next time you should try opening your eyes when in the country, take in the sights and rely less on the rubbish information the media sends you.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

enda1 wrote: »

I live in Belgium.
There are to be honest not that many burkas to be seen, nothing like the number you'd see in the UK for example, but 30 seems a bit low.

That's because it's bullshít

kiffer

... Wait... The burka is the full face vale with the eyes covered and not just any old islamic looking dress with a bit of face covering... Right?
The people saying they're seeing loads of burka everywhere, are they just calling everything a burka?
Does the ban just cover burka or all islamic looking face covers?

prinz

kiffer wrote: »

The people saying they're seeing loads of burka everywhere, are they just calling everything a burka?

No. I know what a burka looks like ta.

--LOS--

kiffer wrote: »

... Wait... The burka is the full face vale with the eyes covered and not just any old islamic looking dress with a bit of face covering... Right?
The people saying they're seeing loads of burka everywhere, are they just calling everything a burka?
Does the ban just cover burka or all islamic looking face covers?

No I'm calling a burka a burka, it's generally the black full vale with just the eyes out, plenty of them around.

Abrasax

Angie Moldy Police wrote: »

If BBC claim that only 30 women, out of the 10.7 million people that live in that little country, wear the burka, I call bullshít. I suppose there's only a handful of orthodox jews living there too... :rolleyes:

Next time you should try opening your eyes when in the country, take in the sights and rely less on the rubbish information the media sends you.

So, I should trust your feeling on the subject as opposed to the BBC reporting?
I can't see any possible agenda for misreporting and presumably there was research carried out by the Belgian government before imposing such a ban.
Of the 10.7 million in Belgium only half a million are Muslim. Presumably about half of them are women, so it's 30 out of 500,000, not 10.7 mill.
It may surprise you to know I do actually walk around there with my eyes open and my business in Antwerp takes me to the Muslim districts in the north of that city and I can only remeber seeing a woman in a burka once, so a number as high as thirty surprised me.

--LOS--

Abrasax wrote: »

So, I should trust your feeling on the subject as opposed to the BBC reporting?
I can't see any possible agenda for misreporting and presumably there was research carried out by the Belgian government before imposing such a ban.
It may surprise you to know I do actually walk around there with my eyes open and my business in Antwerp takes me to the Muslim districts in the north of that city and I can only remeber seeing a woman in a burka once, so a number as high as thirty surprised me.

Throwing the term "research" in there does not rid it of error :rolleyes:

Unless it's that I'm seeing the same 5 all the time, it's hard to tell with the veil :pac:

speedboatchase

Massive protest outside Belgian embassy

http://www.salvo.co.uk/images/userimgs/22168/Post-Boxes_41039_2.jpg

Caliden

Well if we have to obey their customs/laws when we go to their country I see it's only fair that they follow ours.
Can't have it both ways but I'm awaiting the screams of racism....

:rolleyes:

GLaDOS

Well the burka is a sign of the perceived lower status of women and I disagree with their principal. But at the same time banning them outright is infringing on religious rights. Could they not just ban religion?

ztoical

Abrasax wrote: »

If a woman is wearing a burka it's probably unlikely she'd be doing the banking in the first place

Not true the fact that she is wearing the burka means she can go outside, she's not allowed outside otherwise. I live in an area of London that has alot of women wearing burqas and Niqābs [like the burka it covers the full face just leaving a slit for the eyes] who I see everyday in the bank, shops, post office etc etc

There are also plenty of women who wear the hijab headscarf which covers the head and neck but you can see the face. I've no issue with the headscarf but the burqa and Niqāb I can't see a reason for other then to force women into submissive roles. If I went to a country were I was told as a woman I had to cover myself then I would respect that but that's different to the situation in Belgium and other european countries. The ban is for covering like the burqa and niqab that cover the face not the headscarf but if people want to argue faith the face coverings are a cultural thing and not something from Islamic teachings.

brummytom

Belgium is set to become the first ever country in Europe to ban the burqa from being worn in public places.

Good

prinz

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Well the burka is a sign of the perceived lower status of women and I disagree with their principal.

Nope. It is an item of clothing that predates Islam. There origins of it have nothing to do with the lower status of women, it had far more practical beginnings.

SV

Progress

Cookie_Monster

Firstly it's not an outright ban, only public places.

France and Holland are considering it too and I'd say not too many other EU states are far behind.

There are valid reason to restrict it in some circumstances, like for photo ID comparisons and so forth.

GLaDOS

prinz wrote: »

Nope. It is an item of clothing that predates Islam. There origins of it have nothing to do with the lower status of women, it had far more practical beginnings.

Fair enough. In Islam it does have that connotation though, which is what I disagree with and there would be no practical benifit to wearing it in Europe.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Abrasax wrote: »

So, I should trust your feeling on the subject as opposed to the BBC reporting?
I can't see any possible agenda for misreporting and presumably there was research carried out by the Belgian government before imposing such a ban.
Of the 10.7 million in Belgium only half a million are Muslim. Presumably about half of them are women, so it's 30 out of 500,000, not 10.7 mill.
It may surprise you to know I do actually walk around there with my eyes open and my business in Antwerp takes me to the Muslim districts in the north of that city and I can only remeber seeing a woman in a burka once, so a number as high as thirty surprised me.

Unbelieveable...

I have been to belgium many times, Antwerp, Brussels, Liege, Gent, Geel, etc etc. I can tell you one thing, there are a lot more than 30 people in Belgium wearing a burka. What kind of research was done on the topic? How was that research preformed? Probability states that this figgure is incorrect. The BBC have this wrong. Why do they state so? Personal agendas? Sensationalist bullshít?

It is highely unlikely, that in the whole of Belgium, that only 30 women wear the burka. It's complete and utter crap.

The research should be carried out much better than it was, with a proper sample size.

Cookie_Monster

Angie Moldy Police wrote: »

It is highely unlikely, that in the whole of Belgium, that only 30 women wear the burka. It's complete and utter crap.
.

it'll be even more unlikely soon enough :pac:

prinz

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Fair enough. In Islam it does have that connotation though, which is what I disagree with and there would be no practical benifit to wearing it in Europe.

Indeed there is no practical benefit, or religious imperative to wear them whatsoever.

Cookie_Monster

prinz wrote: »

Indeed there is no practical benefit, or religious imperative to wear them whatsoever.

no but I'm sure it has gotten to a point in many Islamic countries that if you as a women tried to go out not wearing it there would be problems to say the least.

Absurdum

Angie Moldy Police wrote: »

I for one support this action, fcuk them if they think they can go to another country and pressure the government into changing their ways. If you don't like it, fcuk back to where you came from.

+1

prinz

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no but I'm sure it has gotten to a point in many Islamic countries that if you as a women tried to go out not wearing it there would be problems to say the least.

Yes, of course there would be in some countries but the only country I can think of where the burka in particular was ever mandatory or enforced is Afghanistan. Most places require a head covering, and modest clothing.

Interestingly enough what is often forgotten is that some traditional/cultural Muslim countries also have laws about these kinds of clothing, prohibiting face coverings in government buildings, universities, schools, etc.AFAIK Turkey and Tunisia have these laws yet you won't hav the same people on here whinging about their civil rights being violated.

wes

prinz wrote: »

AFAIK Turkey and Tunisia have these laws yet you won't hav the same people on here whinging about their civil rights being violated.

Those are secular states, with a majority Muslim populace, and somone else doing something doesn't make it right either btw.

prinz

wes wrote: »

Those are secular states, with a majority Muslim populace, and somone else doing something doesn't make it right either btw.

Yet the Muslim populace seems to get by fine. Try to bring in a similar law in Belgium suddenly civil rights are being breached :rolleyes:

Mr. CooL ICE

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Fair enough. In Islam it does have that connotation though, which is what I disagree with and there would be no practical benifit to wearing it in Europe.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it'll be even more unlikely soon enough :pac:

No no no no no!

They see it as practical, as women who wear burkas do so because they want to be judged by who they are and not what they look like. For example; If a woman stops you and asks you for directions, you're more likely to be as helpful as possible if they're a stunner with a cracking pair of tits rather than a munter.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Yet the Muslim populace seems to get by fine. Try to bring in a similar law in Belgium suddenly civil rights are being breached :rolleyes:

The Turkish government actually tried to repeal the ban btw, and the party was nearly banned by the courts, due to it. It one of there electoral promises. So, the laws being changed is not for a lack of trying.

As for Tunisia, well it is an Authoritarain police state, so its not like the people get to decide anything at all.

Also, just because other countries do the same thing does not mean civil rights are not being breached.

Jazzy

I like the way they are forcing this, they look like pricks for doing it but isnt there an expression in some of the more extreme muslim circles like "a woman without a burka is a woman too much". bout time a goernment did something about these backwards social ideals. Someone like Shirin Ebadi has been fighting for change for a long time and even though it looks like Belgium is using a sledghammer to kill a fly, its the idea I like. For Islam (like any religion) to be taken seriously it needs to change and stop treating women like second class citizens