Website Design

mcnallg

Hi All

A friend and I are looking to set up a retail website to sell t-shirts etc online.
Only thing is, neither of us are too familiar with website design/templates etc.
Basically, we're looking to put a reasonably professional looking site with the ability to use paypal, a shopping basket, and one that we can edit regularly. We're also looking to it very cheaply, free if at all possible!

That probably sounds like we're asking a lot, but any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know if any of the templates you can buy online would be suitable for this kind of site or would you need to get one designed professionally?

Thanks

rossc007

*tumbleweeds*

I doubt your gonna get anyone biting on this for free mate, but I could be wrong:)

You could look at an option like www.volusion.com. They charge a monthly which is dependent on how many products you want to host on your site. The only issue I have with them is that they take most of the control out of your hands, but in your case thats exactly what your looking for. They also provide a good range of templates, free and paid.

Regards
Ross

mcnallg

Thanks rossc007

I dont know if this makes a difference but im not looking for someone to host the website for free, I probably gonna use Digiweb for that.

See its not a big project Im looking to work on full time so im trying to keep recurring operating costs low, with volusion it seems the minimum your realistically looking at is $40 a month.

Is Joobla a viable option? I found templates that you can buy for €30, is it possible to use these or is there something im missing!

Sorry, really am a beginner with this stuff, so the learning curve is probably quite steep!

PCPhoto

you have two options the way I see it .....

1) pay a professional to do a professional job - create a complete website or redesign a template specific to your needs....this will involve spending money.

2) do it yourself with one of the many online templates/websites which allow you to create your own website - it will take time and learning but will be cheper.

one thing to consider online businesses require advertising/marketing .... and one such tool is SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) - probably spelled wrong but anyway - which is usually taken care of if you go the professional route.

(I've plans on doing some websites but have been given quotes of €5K-€10K and higher - admittedly I will require a lot more than a basic webdesign for my plans, so in the meantime I'm saving money and fine tuning my web design ideas....half tempted to offer a cut of sales/profits to web designers/programmers for creating the project)

if you want to look professional in business ..... its best to get a professional looking site from day1 ... pay the money to a professional but make sure you ask about how to change various things (upload/download images...change prices, discounts etc) ...or if he/she will maintain website and how much will they charge per year or per item changed.

rossc007

Hey again mate,

Joomla is definitely an option alright, but you'll need to so a fair amount of design\development work to get an ecommerce site off the ground regardless of which framework your using. Thats why I recommended volusion, its almost a turn key solution for you, you dont have to develop anything. This can really keep your costs down and you can put more money or time towards maybe buying a template or such. Bottom line if you dont go with an online turn key solution, its gonna cost you either time, money or both.

Also if you want to accept credit cards you'll need to setup a Merchant account with your bank and organize a payment gateway, so that will up your monthly spend by about €30 I'd estimate. The gateway usually charge a flat fee per month and the bank will take a small percentage per transaction.

Just read PCphoto's post, imo ignore SEO until you have some sort of online presence, it really is a can of worms and you'll get varying advice anywhere your willing to look. I'd put your time and effort into getting a site up, then look at SEO as an after thought. If you go with a turn key solution you wont have any design issues with SEO and if you go with a freelance developer they should get the basics right, even if they dont its relatively easy to do later.

regards
ross

nellyshark

You really do need to be way more specific in your requirements. I don't understand how you can say it is not a big job either. That's not being narky but you said yourself you are not familiar with website design. An eCom store is much much more than 'design', it has to meet your requirements. Off the top of my head would you be looking for: mutli currency, Product reviews and/or related products, multiple tax rates, shipping rates, sales reports, do you require users to register or guest checkout, sort by category/product/manufacturer. Then there are issues re security, etc etc. You really do need to be clear in your requirements. You can PM if you want some assistance.

Also, to get a developer and designer on board professionally will cost money, no one will join for a % of revenue

cormee

rossc007 wrote: »

Just read PCphoto's post, imo ignore SEO until you have some sort of online presence, it really is a can of worms and you'll get varying advice anywhere your willing to look. I'd put your time and effort into getting a site up, then look at SEO as an after thought. If you go with a turn key solution you wont have any design issues with SEO and if you go with a freelance developer they should get the basics right, even if they dont its relatively easy to do later.

Not good advice - you need to consider SEO as part of your site architecture, especially if you are selling t-shirts. There's thousands of sites selling them and a lot of them are very well optimised.

Regarding the turnkey solution make sure it's SE optimised, don't assume it and the same goes for any developer you take on - specify SEO as part of the project, don't assume it.

tricky D

rossc007 wrote: »

Just read PCphoto's post, imo ignore SEO until you have some sort of online presence, it really is a can of worms and you'll get varying advice anywhere your willing to look. I'd put your time and effort into getting a site up, then look at SEO as an after thought. If you go with a turn key solution you wont have any design issues with SEO and if you go with a freelance developer they should get the basics right, even if they dont its relatively easy to do later.

Good grief no. SEO is really important in the online marketing mix and the smaller the marketing budget, the more important it is.

mcnallg

Thanks for all the advice guys. Really appreciate it.

As I said, I really am new to this, and am just looking to get an idea of whats involved and the best ways in people's experience to get it done.

I am aware that this is not a small job, although, im trying to find a balance for cost against professionalish looking site, as Im not looking at it as a big business, more so a part time hobby that I hope to make a few bob off.

So to answer some of the q's above (please excuse my ignorance)

Mutli currency: No just EUR,
Product reviews and/or related products: Product reviews No, related products: Possibly, but not a necessity
multiple tax rates: No just Irish,
shipping rates: Again just Irish postal for now,
sales reports: Should be able to keep check of this myself.
do you require users to register or guest checkout: Is there an advantage to this?
sort by category/product/manufacturer: Yes we would need different sub pages for the different brands.
Then there are issues re security, are you talking about in relation to CC transactions or just security against hackers and whatnot?

Thanks again, keep the suggestions coming!!

Eoin

do you require users to register or guest checkout: Is there an advantage to this?

Yes - a lot of potential customers want to just order without creating an account. They are still giving the site the exact same information (minus the password), but still prefer it all the same.

I would look at Zen Cart. Lots of templates out there that could be modified. Remember that while a lot of the templates look really nice, it's because they are using their own stock imagery. You would need a graphic designer to replace them with images of your own products. So look at the more basic templates that would be easier to modify.

Or just look at a hosted service like www.shopify.com

Edit:

Then there are issues re security, are you talking about in relation to CC transactions or just security against hackers and whatnot?

Both. If you don't know what you're doing, then I would definitely not store any credit card payments. Use a payment gateway like Realex or Paypal to carry out the payment and redirect to your site when complete. It can be a weight off your shoulders knowing that you don't store any CC information.

Also - many of the open source shopping cart systems are very insecure by default. Mostly because they allow product images to be uploaded; therefore providing a web-based method for any files to be uploaded. This might be just be a file used to generate some spam - or it could try and get the list of customer accounts you have.

So if you do go for one of these carts, make sure you follow all the post-install steps to secure it. That might mean patching it, protecting the admin area with htaccess, changing directory permissions, removing unnecessary administrative functions that allow files to be uploaded - or most likely, a combination of the above.

Remember - there's a reason why people do this stuff full time. Paying someone for their expertise upfront might save you a load of time and headaches down the road.

nellyshark

It is interesting that you say 'for now' in your answer. Although you might not need a requirment 'for now', if you need it in future it will have be able to be integrated seamlessly later on. Any difficulties with integration will cost euros, so having the project planned out in detail from the start is a must. I agree with Eoin, shopify might be your best bet atm

mcnallg

Any thoughts on http://www.bigcommerce.com?

Freemancon

Can't say I know much about this one but I have to agree with the guys above. There is a lot to consider here and it should not be taken lightly. I would recommend one provider though

Ecwid.com

It is free and easy to use and setup. However, I would Only suggest this if you have a limited range of products (less then 30-40) and that you are using this as a stepping stone to a proper managed service (Professional Designer). It is hosted on their servers so you don't need to worry about that and it has a fair number of gateways available.

At the end of the day your Payment Gateways are going to be the biggest trouble - especially if you have no experience. I would suggest keeping it simple and going with Paypal exclusively until you get a Proper Designer on board

tomED

Maybe I'm just in a narky mood - but seriously where do people get off looking for web design for free??

Sure yeah, I'll do your website for free.... but would you mind throwing in a few thousand euro worth of stock for my trouble..... nah, didn't think so....

ErinGoBrath

tomED wrote: »

Maybe I'm just in a narky mood - but seriously where do people get off looking for web design for free??

At no point is the OP asking people to do the web design for free.

He is mearly asking what people recommend in the way of free CMS/shopping carts/templates.

A perfectly valid request IMO.

mcnallg

Thanks for the replies so far guys, very helpful.

Ive a better idea now of what I need to do to get this off the ground.

And yes tomED, I think you might be in a bit of a narky mood.

Im not looking for anyone to design anything for free, simply a Lehman with an idea looking for advice from the people in the know.

nellyshark

Again I would like to say: don't get confused between development and design. The cart will have to offer all the functions you require and for an eCom site the back end is equally as important as the front end

tomED

Yeah clearly in my bad mood, I took the following sentence well out of context! I'm in better humour today!

We're also looking to it very cheaply, free if at all possible!

Zascar

Some good answers to a similar question asked here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65586653

mcnallg

Anyone got any experience with
www.websites-ireland.ie (http://www.websites-ireland.ie)?

Seems almost to good to be true

Zascar

Looks horrible I'd stay well away

tomED

mcnallg wrote: »

Anyone got any experience with
www.websites-ireland.ie (http://www.websites-ireland.ie)?

Seems almost to good to be true

Looks like one of those off-the-shelf "website builders" a lot of hosting companies would have installed.

mcnallg

Sorry I dont really understand, what do you guys think is so ropey about it? (probably a stupid question!)

tomED

mcnallg wrote: »

Sorry I dont really understand, what do you guys think is so ropey about it? (probably a stupid question!)

I wouldn't personally say ropey - but be very aware of what you'd be paying for.

Here's what it reminds me of, and what DigiWeb offer - http://myweb.hosting.digiweb.ie/create_demo_account.jsp?clientId=RRDIGI999JZT4EUP&productId=WSCSYSSSSLY0XKL1&language=en&country=GB&wl_name=digiweb_ce

smcelhinney

Op,

Check out Magento Commerce www.magentocommerce.com .

Cheers
Stephen

Zascar

Almost every hosting company has some form of ready made website you can install and pick a template etc. But to base your whole business model on it as to why someone should sign up - says only people who don't know what they are doing would use a service like this.

The quality of their own website is extremely poor. Would you get a builder to build a house for you if you saw his own house he had built and it was a monstrosity that was falling apart?

Zascar

www.shopify.com is imo the absolute best solution for someone looking to sell products on the internet if they do not know what they are doing and want a low-risk entry solution.

mcnallg

Zascar wrote: »

The quality of their own website is extremely poor. Would you get a builder to build a house for you if you saw his own house he had built and it was a monstrosity that was falling apart?

Haha, very nicely put. Thanks for the input.

cormee

mcnallg wrote: »

Anyone got any experience with
www.websites-ireland.ie (http://www.websites-ireland.ie)?

]

Sweet lord, kill it, kill it with fire.

nellyshark

I would second that.

A very steep learning curve and it is resource hungry but if you want to put in the time then it is a very good script and comes highly recommended by most users. What is it that you plan on selling? Magento might be overkill depending on your stock.

smcelhinney wrote: »

Op,

Check out Magento Commerce www.magentocommerce.com .

Cheers
Stephen

mcnallg

Yeah judging from what ive heard before it might be a bit overkill alright.

Im looking to sell t-shirts and other bits from different manufacturers linked to a particular industry. I dont need it to be too complicated. Just need to look respectable and easy to use.

I basically forsee (or hope for) a site that has a home page, and then about 5-10 sub pages for the different manufacturers, and then a paypal ability. The sub pages will simply display pictures of the t-shirt and the price, and maybe a buy now function, or whatever's the most user friendly. I'd like when you click on a t-shirt you can get a bit more detail on the product, and maybe a pic of the back of the t-shirt too.

So do you guys think this is simple enough or is am I just being a dreamer and fooling myself? I'm not really HTML savy or anything so ideally i'd like to avoid a steep learning curve and pay the few bob to a site like shopify mentioned above.

Does this site basically mean you can design a decent looking site simply, host it online with them, and go from there or do you still need to go into a lot of detail in terms of designing the site?

Thanks again for all the help, am a long way from where i started in terms of understanding all of this!

nellyshark

The thing with shopify and I may be wrong is that while it can serve as an excellent entry point it can take away a lot of control of your site. I have never dealt with the backend either so I don't know much about it's sales reports and shipping etc functionality. I would say though that shopify is low risk, a 30 day free trial and after x amount per month. However you have to factor shopify and paypal fees etc so I would review it a wee bit more. I would also recommend, based on what you said above ^^^^, Open Cart

mcnallg

Zascar you mentioned www.elance.com on your similar link, just had a look there and think this could be a pretty good alternative all things considered.

So you post the project you want done, pay these guys the rate p/h (most are incredibly reasonable) and they look after the rest? Do they deliver a completed website from scratch and then all you need to do is find a webhost and know how to edit it? Would this be accurate in Lehman's terms?

Please feel free to poke holes in my ignorance!! Thanks guys

nellyshark

mcnallg wrote: »

Zascar you mentioned www.elance.com on your similar link, just had a look there and think this could be a pretty good alternative all things considered.

So you post the project you want done, pay these guys the rate p/h (most are incredibly reasonable) and they look after the rest? Do they deliver a completed website from scratch and then all you need to do is find a webhost and know how to edit it? Would this be accurate in Lehman's terms?

Please feel free to poke holes in my ignorance!! Thanks guys

Another one is odesk.com

In Lehman's terms you post a project you want completed and the provider completes the project.

However you have to be very careful. You would need a full accurate spec of your requirements and you have to shortlist and interview accordingly. I know will sound mean, and not as intended, but in projects like this communication is vital and communication has to be articulated both ways clearly correctly. That is IMO one of the greatest minus points to sites like these, you may hire a very competent developer but not relay your exact requirements that well and the provider will misinterpret the incorrect requirements and develop something difference. You just have to be very wary

Eoin

macnallg, my experience with outsourcing to services like this, is that you need to define exactly what you want. There is often a language barrier that can complicate things as well. If you post up vague requirements, then there's a good chance you'll get a vague interpretation of what you asked for. Again, this is my personal experience, but I think remote outsourcing like this generally works best when it's a person with a techie background that has converted the business requirements into technical ones.

Your requirements seem pretty simple - any off-the-shelf eCommerce store will do what you're looking for. But as I posted earlier, you'll have to look after the maintenance of the site - applying security patches and so on. Some of them are inherently insecure and need constant monitoring. I've seen OSCommerce and Zencart sites have malicious files being added to them in a matter of days of being installed, and that's before they were even marketed at all.

Even if you got someone to install a site, install the patches, modify and install a template - this could still work out more than the cost of trying out a hosted solution where you don't have to worry about any backend stuff, other than fulfilling orders and looking after your own content.

As you can see from this page, Shopify offer a selection of free templates, so you can get something that's somewhat customised pretty easily.

nellyshark

Excellent post Eoin

maxiproxy

ErinGoBrath wrote: »

At no point is the OP asking people to do the web design for free.

He is mearly asking what people recommend in the way of free CMS/shopping carts/templates.

A perfectly valid request IMO.

it usually comes with most of the hosting packages, and good

mcnallg

Anyone know if its straightfoward to use a .ie domain with shopify?

Thanks!

Eoin

From their FAQ

Can I use my own domain name with my shop?

Yes! This can be a great way to help Shopify integrate with an existing site. Just get your domain registrar to point your domain to our servers, and your customers will enjoy a seamless integration between your main site and your online store.