Litter, Beer cans, Drinks bottles - Would you support a returnable charge?

alex73

I see in other EU countries there is a returnable charge on Beer and Drinks cans and bottles.

Here in Ireland I see the country littered with Beer cans, Drink Cans, bottles..

Would it not be better to impose a charge that would force us to return them?

Fago!

Out government are too stupid/incompetent/fat/useless to do anything worth doing!

RolandIRL

totally agree, more people would recycle them if they got 20c back for each can.

though the alcoholics would only then be fueling their addiction from all the money they'd make back

alwaysadub

I used to live near a recycling place when i was a kid and they used to give us money for collecting aluminium cans.

Don't know why they stopped it tbh.

byrnef

I think its a great idea, works in Canada, Scandinavia. Better for the environment and cost is minimal if any.

MitchKoobski

Well....no
1. I don't want to pay any extra than I already do for my drink.
2. When you have one or two drinks in you, you're just gonna pay the extra charge anyway and chuck the can or bottle away.
3. If you added that, next I'll be paying for the cardboard box my bottles come in from the Off Licence.

PeterIanStaker

If it was along the lines of the Plastic Bag levy it might work.

MitchKoobski

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If it was along the lines of the Plastic Bag levy it might work.

Ah yeah but with the plastic bag levy we had the alternative of re-usable bags or paper bags.
I doubt you'll find people walking into bars with washed cans to refill.

PeterIanStaker

I wasnt suggesting we refill our cans over and over, maybe we could bring em back to the offy and they'd weigh 'em or something.

alex73

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Ah yeah but with the plastic bag levy we had the alternative of re-usable bags or paper bags.
I doubt you'll find people walking into bars with washed cans to refill.

Well in Germany it works!, Bring your bottle to a shop and they give you the refund. You will never find a Beer can as litter as people pick them up for the refund.

Its a pain, but the situation in Ireland at the moment is terrible and more than 50% of the litter is Beer/Drinks cans.

Mrmoe

Good idea I think. It will not get rid of all the rubbish that is strewn around the place but it could make an impact. It could even give people an incentive to go around a clean up an area. It depends on how much the charge might be, too small and you won't notice any change, too big and people will just find an alternative.

Aidric

I've seen it work well in Holland. Absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be introduced here.

ScumLord

Mrmoe wrote: »

Good idea I think. It will not get rid of all the rubbish that is strewn around the place but it could make an impact. It could even give people an incentive to go around a clean up an area. It depends on how much the charge might be, too small and you won't notice any change, too big and people will just find an alternative.

Excellent idea, it would give the homeless something to do for change and I wouldn't feel so bad when I throw my empty bottles at them, at least now I know they'll be able to buy a pack of bandages.

Mac daddy

I grew up in Holland we used to get one Gulden for a plastic 2 ltr bottle of coke/7up ect.
For a crate of empty beer bottles we used to get around 8 Gulden which is around €4 for it ( bare in mind a full crate would cost no more than 24 Gulden at max !!! )

Worked great in Holland you would never see a bottle or plastic bottles all over the like you do here, as you would get money for it.

Sofiztikated

It'd be a great idea, which is why it would never be introduced here.

If it was, we'd make a cunt of it, and there'd be a six month waiting list to get your 20c back, and you'd have to have an unnecessary licence to bring back said cans.

landsleaving

Works great in Copenhagen, you leave a bottle on the street (while oyu legally drink outside) and some random person will take it for the refund. Way less litter and provides a bit of cash for the homeless.

Run_to_da_hills

The states have had returnable deposits for years and there is no reason why it would work here. It was 15c in California,

Greyfox

This is a really dumb idea, I pay enough stupid charges already. Why impose an extra charge rather then just giving people 10c back for each can/bottle returned!

Odats

Get father twelve large bottles of guiness each week from the off licence and get a return charge from them it was always in place. But would be a good idea for people to recycle more.

alex73

Greyfox wrote: »

This is a really dumb idea, I pay enough stupid charges already. Why impose an extra charge rather then just giving people 10c back for each can/bottle returned!

Thats what I propose, Give people money for returning the Cans/Bottles (return the desposit)

Rented Mule

I'd like to see this done with the filters on cigarettes.

The country wouldn't be riddled with fag butts (outside of Dublin of course).

alex73

Rented Mule wrote: »

I'd like to see this done with the filters on cigarettes.

The country wouldn't be riddled with fag butts (outside of Dublin of course).

agree, but atleast cig buts degrade, Beer cans don't.

admiralofthefleet

when i was a kid you could get 10p return on a glass lemonade bottle

RolandIRL

alex73 wrote: »

agree, but at least cig buts degrade, Beer cans don't.

FYI cig butts are non-biodegradable.

alex73

whiteman19 wrote: »

FYI cig butts are non-biodegradable.

I stand corrected, your right, But the litter problem is mainly (to my eye) drinks cans, PET bottles, fast food cups. In the park near my house they are every where. Cig butts, not as obvious, but on streets they are bad.

christeb

It's a superb idea, I'm half-Danish and over there it works very smoothly. You have your plastic crate full of glass bottles, costs you ca. €4-5, and you bring 'em all back when you're finished.

In fact, the drink here would probably be cheaper as the companies are getting back their bottles cans. Come to think of it maybe not, but that's the theory anyway.

Far too forward thinking for this country.

alex73

I suppose the green enviroment minister will say", oh we need cross border approval (my arse) we didn't need it for the plastic bag levy and it works fine.

--LOS--

brilliant idea, works at festivals etc, bring your cup back, get cheaper beer, also bring your bag of rubbish to a collection area, get part refund on the price of your ticket, can't see why it wouldn't work on the streets too.

alex73

Example of reverse vending from Aldi in Germany.

TheZohanS

Mac daddy wrote: »

I grew up in Holland we used to get one Gulden for a plastic 2 ltr bottle of coke/7up ect.
For a crate of empty beer bottles we used to get around 8 Gulden which is around €4 for it ( bare in mind a full crate would cost no more than 24 Gulden at max !!! )

Worked great in Holland you would never see a bottle or plastic bottles all over the like you do here, as you would get money for it.

When I first went to Holland it was 50 guilden for a "happy time"....so much happiness from returning empties...

gamgsam

House party in my place... I'm gonna be soooo rich!

Gillington

In Germany,the first time you pay for a crate for example its €20,if you bring back all the bottles you might get €5 off the next one.These are guess figures but its along them lines.

At home if I have people over Ill keep the empty crate in the corner for empty bottles,a cash incentive and everyone would be doing the same.

L.Jenkins

The US (No Arguments) have the right idea altogether. They give a person money for recycling. They would give a person 5 cent per can or 500 ml bottle provided and a few dollars per tonne of paper and plastic. It would encourage people to clean up after themselves here instead of having to fork out to give it to someone.

bnt

When I was visiting friends in Denmark, the beer bottle return system worked great. The soft drink system ... not so much, I thought. I was wandering around Copenhagen by myself, popped in to a corner shop, and came out with something called "Faxe Kondi", in a thick recycled plastic bottle that looked like it was about to fall apart in my hand or give me a nasty disease. Those plastic bottles don't age as well as the glass ones.

alex73

Seems like 78% of people are ok with a deposit charge on Beer/Drinks cans and bottles.

Hope the "Green" goverment see the poll.

minidazzler

Fago! wrote: »

Out government are too stupid/incompetent/fat/useless to do anything worth doing!

Because there hasn't been a road built, a school constructed or a hospital equipted in the past 40 years.


I would support the charge in principle, but in practise I find it hard...what If the beer I am buying costs more because of the glass?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

It works great in other countries, but I cannot see it working here, somebody would be scamming, retailers wouldn't like it, neither would the drinks companies... I find it to be a great scheme. It really does reduce the price of drink and the likes.

Then you will have the fcukers in government banning this as they will claim it will lead to binge drinking, in order to protect their publican friends from losses.

alex73

Penny Sweet Publisher wrote: »

It works great in other countries, but I cannot see it working here, somebody would be scamming, retailers wouldn't like it, neither would the drinks companies... I find it to be a great scheme. It really does reduce the price of drink and the likes.

Then you will have the fcukers in government banning this as they will claim it will lead to binge drinking, in order to protect their publican friends from losses.

What does a 15c deposit on a can of beer have to do with binge drinking? At the moment I see dozens of beer cans dumped in lanes and parks after a group of lads drinking. You can be damn sure if there were 15c per can when returned then you would not see a single can dumped anywhere.

phasers

Tbh I don't see people picking dirty cans up off the street for 20c and the type of people who throw bottles and cans on the ground wouldn't give two shits about it.

My mam always told me not to pick up cans because there was a very high chance there'd be a syringe in it.

Also your poll sucks. Where's the "It's a nice idea but I don't see it working" option?

alex73

phasers wrote: »

Tbh I don't see people picking dirty cans up off the street for 20c and the type of people who throw bottles and cans on the ground wouldn't give two shits about it.

My mam always told me not to pick up cans because there was a very high chance there'd be a syringe in it.

Also your poll sucks. Where's the "It's a nice idea but I don't see it working" option?

Well for you there is the 4th option for you. Facts are clear... No Bottlers or Cans littered about in Germany (where they have a deposit) but there are loads in Ireland.

phasers

The fourth option is not for me. You poll is just crap and biased. You may as well not have a poll at all.

Ireland isn't Germany . I somehow can't see the junkies in my local park picking up their cans when they're done and I sure as hell wouldn't touch them either.

alex73

phasers wrote: »

The fourth option is not for me. You poll is just crap and biased. You may as well not have a poll at all.

Ireland isn't Germany . I somehow can't see the junkies in my local park picking up their cans when they're done and I sure as hell wouldn't touch them either.

Well that's your opinion, Facts are facts. Junkies do pick them up because 6 empty cans will buy the a full can... (if there were a deposit on the cans..)

Ireland is not Germany that's for sure.. they have no litter, we have lots of it .

Problem is there is no incentive to return the cans or bottles so why would a junkie or youths in Ireland bother their asses picking up the cans.....

Also its not just Germany that has the deposit system, many other countries do aswell. And it does drive down the amount of litter caused by discarded Bottles and Cans.

alex73

Denmark

In Denmark the selling of aluminium beverage cans was forbidden between 1982 and 2002. However this regulation violated European Union law. Therefore the EU forced Denmark to replace it, and the new legislation, passed in 2002, was in fact a container deposit legislation. It established the following container deposits:

• Refillable glass bottles up to and incl. 0.5 litre: 1.00 DKK
• Refillable glass bottles over 0.5 litre: 3.00 DKK
• Cans, glass and plastic bottles under 1 litre: 1.00 DKK
• Exception: Plastic bottles of 0.5 litre: 1.50 DKK
• Cans, glass and plastic bottles of 1 litre and over: 3.00 DKK

alex73

Norway


A Tomra reverse vending machine in Hammerfest, Norway


Similarly to the situation in Denmark, the selling of aluminium beverage cans was forbidden in Norway up until the end of the 20th century. In 1999 a container deposit legislation was passed, which also abolished this regulation. Today, there are the following container deposits in Norway:

• Cans, glass and plastic bottles up to 0.5 litre: 1.00 NOK
• Cans, glass and plastic bottles over 0.5 litre: 2.50 NOK
• Bottle crates are also reverse vended.

Norsk Resirk[7] is the non-profit system founded 3 May 1999 and co-owned by various organisations in trade and industry that handles the depositing and recycling non-refillable plastic bottles and beverage cans in Norway. The Norwegian system works in such a way that the excise tax decreases as the returns increases, meaning that for example 90 per cent returns for cans translates into a 90 per cent discount on the excise tax. This again allows drink products to be sold at lower prices.
In 2005 93% of all recyclable bottles and 80% of all drink cans in Norway returned into the deposit and recycling system. That year also saw 280 million NOK in deposits being paid for the return of 194 million cans and 49 million bottles.
Deposits on drink containers have a long history in Norway, starting with deposits on beer bottles in 1902. The deposit back then was 0,06 NOK (3,30 NOK in 2006 currency value). This deposit arrangement was later expanded to include soft drink bottles.
Up until 1 January 2001 the Vinmonopolet government wine and spirits monopoly chain had deposits on products made by the company itself, this did not include imported products.
Today drink containers can be returned and deposits retrieved at over 9,000 establishments in Norway, and there are almost 3,000 reverse vending machines where drink containers can be exchanged for receipts that can be cashed in at the counter. Most reverse vending machines in Norway are manufactured by Tomra Systems ASA.

alex73

Germany


Reverse vending machine in an Aldi supermarket in Germany.


In Germany container deposit legislation, known as Pfand or Einwegpfand (single-use deposit), was passed in 2002, and was implemented on 1 January 2003.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I However, its implementation was fought by lobby groups of German bottling industry and retailers. This fight also included trials at the Federal Administrative Court of Germany and the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany, but all trials were won by the German federal government.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I The deposit legislation does not cover containers for fruit juice, wine, spirits, liquors, and certain dietary drinks.
The standard deposit for all single-use containers (cans, single-use glass and plastic bottles): € 0.25
Before 2002, there also were various (still existing) deposit systems for re-usable bottles, e.g. for beer or carbonated water bottles. The deposits for reusable bottles are not regulated by law since they are the private business of the individual beverage manufacturer and can therefore vary in rate. Nonetheless there are some standard rates that are widely used:I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I

• Glass bottles for most beer and beer mixed drinks (usually up to 0.5 litre) : € 0.08
• Reusable glass and plastic bottles for most soft drinks (usually up to 2 litres): € 0.15
• Reusable glass bottles of a special kind and design (usually flip-top bottles for beer): between € 0.15 - € 0.50

Before introduction of the Euro, deposit was 15 Pfennig for reusable (beer) glass-bottles and usually 30 Pfennig for reusable glass and plastic bottles.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

alex73 wrote: »

What does a 15c deposit on a can of beer have to do with binge drinking? At the moment I see dozens of beer cans dumped in lanes and parks after a group of lads drinking. You can be damn sure if there were 15c per can when returned then you would not see a single can dumped anywhere.

I am not claiming it has anything to do with binge drinking, but I can see some tossers in government suggesting that it will as it reduces the cost of the product, which it does.

You think it's going to clear up that much rubbish? It would if people with little or no money were to collect the cans/bottles. Either way, it's mainly for the bottles so they can be reused. In Belgium at least they don't do this for cans.

segaBOY

Penny Sweet Publisher wrote: »

I am not claiming it has anything to do with binge drinking, but I can see some tossers in government suggesting that it will as it reduces the cost of the product, which it does.

No it doesn't. An extra charge would be applied in the first place to all products and this would be refunded upon return of the can/bottle.

auldwan

Edit: Nevermind

segaBOY

auldwan wrote: »

15c is quite a lot to give out for each bottle and can bought in this country. How about impose a tax on the purchase of non-biodegradable bottles that will offset the 15c, and have no such tax on biodegradable bottles

How about do a better job in our Schools of teaching kids not to littler and have a bit of respect for their surroundings and learn some civic pride? Jesus, not as if we don't have enough extra stealth taxes already.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

segaBOY wrote: »

No it doesn't. An extra charge would be applied in the first place to all products and this would be refunded upon return of the can/bottle.

Well the way I understand it to be is they brought in the incentive to return bottles by giving them cheaper products on return of old ones. You buy your 24 bottles of stella for 15 quid. That's the price, unless you have a crate of empty bottles of stella and if that's the case you get the crate for about 11 euro. There is no "fee" or increase in price. Otherwise why the hell would you buy the crate? Better to give people money off when they return it and keep the prices as they are.

segaBOY

Penny Sweet Publisher wrote: »

Well the way I understand it to be is they brought in the incentive to return bottles by giving them cheaper products on return of old ones. You buy your 24 bottles of stella for 15 quid. That's the price, unless you have a crate of empty bottles of stella and if that's the case you get the crate for about 11 euro. There is no "fee" or increase in price. Otherwise why the hell would you buy the crate? Better to give people money off when they return it and keep the prices as they are.

How do you think this one would be funded? Our cash strapped public purse? If you look at the thread title it's a "returnable charge".

Just like the "Producer Recycling Fund" for electronics the consumer ended up paying in order to return their goods.

The money for this project would have to come from somewhere. More than likely it would be an extra charge levied on all glass bottles/cans which would be refunded upon returning the bottles/cans to the designated centre.