Mandatory sentence for attacking gardaí?

OutlawPete

I think this is a joke quite frankly ..

Call for mandatory sentence for attacking gardaí

Rank and file gardaí are calling for the introduction of a mandatory 12-year sentence for attacking a member of the force.

It is one of 20 motions up for discussion at the annual conference of the Garda Representative Association, which gets underway today and looks set to be dominated by debate on pay, conditions and resources.

Source.

"12 years" for assaulting a gardaí?

People are getting suspended sentences everyday for attacking members of the public.

I could understand it for attacking OAP's or something.

Seems to be the GRA are more concerned with becoming untouchable than actually making our streets safer for ALL members of Irish society.

Mark200

I do think it should be a more serious crime to attack the people that are there to enforce the law.

12 years is a bit much though.

the keen edge

OutlawPete wrote: »

Seems to be the GRA are more concerned with becoming untouchable than actually making our streets safer for ALL members of Irish society.

Fcuking deadly, when can we expect them on our streets?

Michaelrsh

Up the Ra!!

connundrum

Court of Criminal Appeal will chop everything by 40% - 60% anyway so whats the point.

Along with attacks on Gardai carrying a 12 year sentence, I'd include groups such as:

Emergency Services (Ambo & Fire)
Pregnant women
OAPS
Children
Nurses & Doctors (whilst on duty)
Security staff (whilst on duty)
Postmen (whilst on duty)

The list is endless, which lets me draw the conclusion that an attack on anyone should carry a 12 year mandatory sentence.

Cookie_Monster

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

can I vote for options 2 and 3 in the poll.

There's a rather nice looking hawt blonde ban-garda in Dun Laoghaire

OutlawPete

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

can I vote for options 2 and 3 in the poll.

There's a rather nice looking blonde ban-garda in Dun Laoghaire

I never enabled the multiple choice option

Good Mod people, add multiple choice if ya can .. o/

Thanking you.

Gillington

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

If this is brought in then I want a mandatory 12yrs for when a Garda attacks a member of the public brought in aswell.

However, thats a different thread.

bluto63

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

Well it may prevent people who are trying to flee petty crimes from attacking the gardai and help bring them down faster, but it could also lead to a corrupt police force believing they can do what they like. I say no to that, I shouldn't live in fear from those who are supposed to protect me from fear.

Gurgle

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

I'm going to make a wild stab in the dark here - 'years' probably started off as 'months', but that wasn't a good enough headline :rolleyes:

Sykk

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

12 years is a bit steep now.. 1 year maybe.

OutlawPete

Gurgle wrote: »

I'm going to make a wild stab in the dark here - 'years' probably started off as 'months', but that wasn't a good enough headline :rolleyes:

It was BreakingNews.ie

Not TheOnion.com

WindSock

Right so I can rape, abuse and neglect my children and get 4-6 years but punch a garda in the face and get 12?

stovelid

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

What if they attack you first?

L.Jenkins

In all honesty, some Gardaí maybe **** and their jobs hard enough, but if they're planning on dishing out a minimum mandatory sentance for attacking them and Army personnel (soon to introduced or considered), then they may want to consider minimum mandatory sentences for other crimes too. For example, Rape, Murder and Manslaughter, Assault and other such crimes.

If they're only worried about protecting themselves then feck them!

Holsten

No, no I don't.

I'd support it, yeah.

Bonito

IMO it depends. If the Garda that's assaulted is put off the streets for a lengthy period then there should be a harsh punishment for the criminal. If it's just a slap across the chops from a drunken young/aul wan being rowdy going home from the pub it should be a cautioning or what have ya. Just treat each case individually, basically.

amacachi

Given what counts as attacking a Garda I don't like this idea one bit.

Itsdacraic

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

No way in hell would I support it.

I can imagine a garda on a power trip knocking some lad about the station and goading him that he'll get 12 years if he reacts.

L.Jenkins

Bonito wrote: »

IMO it depends. If the Garda that's assaulted is put off the streets for a lengthy period then there should be a harsh punishment for the criminal. If it's just a slap across the chops from a drunken young/aul wan being rowdy going home from the pub it should be a cautioning or what have ya. Just treat each case individually, basically.

It's very hard to prove anything, if you're that drunk as to hit a Garda in the first place and unfortunately the will bang you up, dinted pride is an awful thing. Better not to hit them, even if they hit you. The best thing any civvi can do is take a name, number and witness statements and lodge a complaint.

Bonito

djhunter30 wrote: »

It's very hard to prove anything, if you're that drunk as to hit a Garda in the first place and unfortunately the will bang you up, dinted pride is an awful thing. Better not to hit them, even if they hit you. The best thing any civvi can do is take a name, number and witness statements and lodge a complaint.

That's what I mean. Someone could give a Garda a drunken slap and possibly get 12 years and then someone could go and break a Garda's nose or bust them with a cricket bat or a hurley and get the same sentence.

ch750536

djhunter30 wrote: »

It's very hard to prove anything, if you're that drunk as to hit a Garda in the first place and unfortunately the will bang you up, dinted pride is an awful thing. Better not to hit them, even if they hit you. The best thing any civvi can do is take a name, number and witness statements and lodge a complaint.

In a real world democracy works too.

KevR

OutlawPete wrote: »

"12 years" for assaulting a gardaí?

People are getting suspended sentences everyday for attacking members of the public.

I could understand it for attacking OAP's or something.

If someone isn't afraid of the consequences of attacking a Garda then they sure as hell won't give a **** about attacking a member of the general public.

The problem is that there are too many people who are not afraid of the justice system and as a result they do what they want, when they want, to who they want. People need to be afraid of the justice system - I think a fairly good place to start would be to make people afraid of the consequences of abusing/attacking the people who enforce the law (the Gardai).

Will we ever have a safer country if there are people who aren't afraid to attack the Gardai? I really don't think so.

Mark200 wrote: »

I do think it should be a more serious crime to attack the people that are there to enforce the law.

12 years is a bit much though.

Agree.

copperfacegaz

No, no I don't.

id support it yeah ... p.s the reasons are in the name !!

stovelid

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

I'd hazard a guess that some uniformed thugs would love the idea of being able to dish it out under the threat of a mandatory jail sentence for striking back.

KevR

djhunter30 wrote: »

In all honesty, some Gardaí maybe **** and their jobs hard enough, but if they're planning on dishing out a minimum mandatory sentance for attacking them and Army personnel (soon to introduced or considered), then they may want to consider minimum mandatory sentences for other crimes too. For example, Rape, Murder and Manslaughter, Assault and other such crimes.

If they're only worried about protecting themselves then feck them!

The Gardai don't really have any say on the issue of sentencing. It's the courts/justice system that decide all that.

Obviously, assaults on Garda members affects the Gardai personally and that's why they are calling for changes in the justice system so that there are harsher punishments for assaulting a Garda. I do think that there should be more harsh punishments for things such as rape - you could say that it's the job of rape victim support groups to call on the justice system to issue harsher punishments for rape; I'm sure some the rape victim support groups have done this.

A 12 years sentence right across the board for assault on a Garda is too much in my opinion. It should be on a case by case basis but punishments definitely need to be more harsh than they are now.

topper75

Amongst those types who would assault Gardai, how many would make a calculated decision whether or not to do so based on the likely sentence?

Hugo Drax

connundrum wrote: »

Court of Criminal Appeal will chop everything by 40% - 60% anyway so whats the point.

Along with attacks on Gardai carrying a 12 year sentence, I'd include groups such as:

Emergency Services (Ambo & Fire)
Pregnant women
OAPS
Children
Nurses & Doctors (whilst on duty)
Security staff (whilst on duty)
Postmen (whilst on duty)

The list is endless, which lets me draw the conclusion that an attack on anyone should carry a 12 year mandatory sentence.

Mandatory sentances is misleading since if you read the statute there's always a mitigating "get out of jail" clause such as an early guilty plea etc. which provides for a lighter sentance.

KevR

topper75 wrote: »

Amongst those types who would assault Gardai, how many would make a calculated decision whether or not to do so based on the likely sentence?

The fact that the punishment doesn't even enter their head is what's most worrying in my opinion.

Thinking back to that story last year where a group of skangers beat up a Ban Garda when she asked them to stop drinking in public (Liffey board walk). Clearly people like this don't fear/care about the law, the Gardai and have no consideration for members of the public. Basically, a Garda was trying to enforce the law and make Dublin City Centre more pleasant/less intimidating for members of the public got the **** kicked out of her by skangers who have no respect for anyone or anything.

Dyr

good idea on paper, but I would'nt trust some garda's not to use it as go-straight-to-jail card when needs be. Secondly the gardeeys are the only people in this country legally entitled to carry the means to protect themselves from assault. So if they're tooled up AND being protected by mandatory sentencing why are we expected to take a beating and then just grin and bear it when the p**ck's case doesn't even get heard for two years?

Overheal

This is too broadly definied-sounding, on paper. And I hope they clean it up.

If a woman pushes back an officer during arrest, is that an assault? Automatically 12 years? Or are we really talking about the worst cases, where someone tries to knife or shoot at an officer, or get into fisticuffs.

Nervous Wreck

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

For attacking certain gardaí, there should be a mandatory pint!

KevR

I really don't think that the Gardai beating up people is as widespread as some people believe.

Why would they beat you up?

I personally don't intend on ever ending up in Garda custody because I have respect for other people, my country and the law. I can't predict the future but if I do ever end up being in Garda custody for some reason (can't even imagine what) I can see myself being co-operative and non-abusive to the Gardai who are only doing their job. I'm level headed enough to know that being abusive and non co-operative will get me nowhere.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who dish out loads of verbal abuse and are extremely non co-operative when they get arrested. I don't understand why people would think that this would make their situation any better? It's gaurenteed to make it worse. The Gardai, like everyone else, are only human and it's not inconceivable that you might get a slap or two if you push them to the point where they snap. But I certainly don't buy into the idea that they beat people up indiscriminately. So this whole "they will be able beat us up and we'll get sent straight to jail if we defend ourselves" argument is null and void in my opinion.

I don't think all Gardai are perfect, honest, decent people. But most of them are and they are doing a tough job which I wouldn't fancy doing.

Bonito

KevR wrote: »

I really don't think that the Gardai beating up people is as widespread as some people believe.

Why would they beat you up?

I personally don't intend on ever ending up in Garda custody because I have respect for other people, my country and the law. I can't predict the future but if I do ever end up being in Garda custody for some reason (can't even imagine what) I can see myself being co-operative and non-abusive to the Gardai who are only doing their job. I'm level headed enough to know that being abusive and non co-operative will get me nowhere.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who dish out loads of verbal abuse and are extremely non co-operative when they get arrested. I don't understand why people would think that this would make their situation any better? It's gaurenteed to make it worse. The Gardai, like everyone else, are only human and it's not inconceivable that you might get a slap or two if you push them to the point where they snap. But I certainly don't buy into the idea that they beat people up indiscriminately. So this whole "they will be able beat us up and we'll get sent straight to jail if we defend ourselves" argument is null and void in my opinion.

I don't think all Gardai are perfect, honest, decent people. But most of them are and they are doing a tough job which I wouldn't fancy doing.

It's more so "back in the day" tbh. Most the Gardaí where I live are new and not from the local area. Years back the Gardaí were local lads and took no shíte. Heard many stories of louts off knacker drinking down the beach or at the pitches acting the maggot and being told to move and then telling the Gardaí to eff off. Only resulted in the riot van being brought up and a couple of them getting dragged in and given a proper few slaps and chucked back out.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

It's a starting point, the sentence is too severe.
It would have to require a subjective test aswell, that the attacker knew that the Garda was a Garda and acting in the course of his/her duty.
Also, assault constitutes force, however light eg a slight push so it would also want to consist of aggravated assault or even assault causing harm rather than a mere assault

Liam Byrne

No, no I don't.

KevR wrote: »

The fact that the punishment doesn't even enter their head is what's most worrying in my opinion.

To be honest, the fact that the punishment does have to enter anyone's head is what's most worrying in mine.

I mean, why are any of us not out on the street attacking Gardai, mugging old ladies, raping some young one or beating someone over the head ?

It's because those actions are wrong.....not because of the sentence involved.

And the fact that some people appear to be trying to mitigate assault by calling it "a drunken slap" is pathetic, tbh.

Decent people don't assault anyone.

I would, however, say that mandatory sentences should be imposed for LOTS of crimes, and that the courts should shut their ears to the PC brigade.

Somnus

WindSock wrote: »

Right so I can rape, abuse and neglect my children and get 4-6 years but punch a garda in the face and get 12?

Exactly my thinking. Ridiculous that they would bring in a mandatory sentence for hitting a Garda but not having one just as long, or longer, for other much more serious crimes.

seanybiker

No, no I don't.

12 years is more that most murderers do in Ireland. If its 12 years for that then life should be life.

KevR

Liam Byrne wrote: »

To be honest, the fact that the punishment does have to enter anyone's head is what's most worrying in mine.

I mean, why are any of us not out on the street attacking Gardai, mugging old ladies, raping some young one or beating someone over the head ?

It's because those actions are wrong.....not because of the sentence involved.

And the fact that some people appear to be trying to mitigate assault by calling it "a drunken slap" is pathetic, tbh.

Decent people don't assault anyone.

I would, however, say that mandatory sentences should be imposed for LOTS of crimes, and that the courts should shut their ears to the PC brigade.

You're right, I agree completely.

Decent people don't attack people and commit other crimes because those actions are wrong.

My comments relate to people who are not decent and who will commit crimes if they can get away with it or if the consequences of getting caught don't bother them enough for them to be deterred.

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

What a load of balls.

When are we going to see THEM jailed for assaults and the like they carry out eh? :rolleyes:

orourkeda

stovelid wrote: »

What if they attack you first?

Surely self defence wouldnt work in those circumstances

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

This gives less power to the people and more to the guardai. We all know how this is going to go. Scumbags that got on to the force somehow, are going to use this to their advantage and have joe soap down the road living in fear in case one of these scumbags use this law against him in a bully tactic type of way.

What rules have been invented lately to protect the people from beatings and police brutality? The police onbudsman? I laugh at that department the same way I laugh at the financial regulator. Their to save face but have the power to do sweet fcuk all.

Dravokivich

connundrum wrote: »

The list is endless, which lets me draw the conclusion that an attack on anyone should carry a 12 year mandatory sentence.

Sure you'd do less for murder...

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I would, however, say that mandatory sentences should be imposed for LOTS of crimes, and that the courts should shut their ears to the PC brigade.

"Bullets for some" <-- would be my opinion... not to kill mind you... just to hurt like fúck so you'd never think of doing it again...

biko

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Up the Ra!!

Try to stick to the subject instead of spouting this stuff where it doesn't belong, ok?

RolandIRL

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

i wonder were the people who voted yes all gardai....?

Liam Byrne

No, no I don't.

whiteman19 wrote: »

i wonder were the people who voted yes all gardai....?

No, they weren't.

OutlawPete

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, they weren't.

Says you Garda Byrne

I would like to see stiffer sentences for attacking members of the Gardai, and I fully respect the vast majority of them but tbh I'm not quite sure how this would be enforced.

I was arrested a while back for basically being cheeky to them when I was drunk (lesson learned!). This culminated with me having my head slammed into the desk at the station. Now, I found out after that the Garda said I "was swinging for him" which was obviously just to cover his own ass if I went to the ombudsman or something - would I be liable to get 12 years just on the word of the Garda?

Liam Byrne

No, no I don't.

OutlawPete wrote: »

Says you Garda Byrne

While part of me would love to be out there ridding the streets of scumbags, I wouldn't be able for it......fair play to those who do/are!

--LOS--

You know what, I have always wanted to shag a member of an garda siochana

connundrum wrote: »

Court of Criminal Appeal will chop everything by 40% - 60% anyway so whats the point.

Along with attacks on Gardai carrying a 12 year sentence, I'd include groups such as:

Emergency Services (Ambo & Fire)
Pregnant women
OAPS
Children
Nurses & Doctors (whilst on duty)
Security staff (whilst on duty)
Postmen (whilst on duty)

The list is endless, which lets me draw the conclusion that an attack on anyone should carry a 12 year mandatory sentence.

Really hope you're kidding with that list, I see a lot of cards being pulled, should be about the crime, not who you are.

bonzodog2

Bonito wrote: »

It's more so "back in the day" tbh. Most the Gardaí where I live are new and not from the local area. Years back the Gardaí were local lads and took no shíte. Heard many stories of louts off knacker drinking down the beach or at the pitches acting the maggot and being told to move and then telling the Gardaí to eff off. Only resulted in the riot van being brought up and a couple of them getting dragged in and given a proper few slaps and chucked back out.

I was under the impression that Gardaí were not posted/stationed/whatever in the area they are from ?