Ex-girlfriend bringing kid to Britain

pookie82

legallynotgud wrote: »

The rights of the child will always be deemed to be best served with the natural mother unless she gives up those rights. Read on google the cases of Nicolau v an Bord Uchtala and K v W.

No one is proposing the child be taken from the mother, just that the dad is made legal guardian. One does not lead to another. A judge can feel that the best interests of the child are for it to remain with the mother - that won't have any bearing on granting guardianship, as this is not custody.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

Where did I mention Joint Custody? or visitation rights

You said a father wouldnt get guardianship if the mother didnt agree. I'm telling you (so is everyone else) that if the OP applies for guardianship he will get it.

I then mentioned guardianship doesnt give a hell of a lot of rights for exampe if said father refuses to sign passport forms, mother can then apply for judge to waive his right to have them signed by both parties

I have experience as in Ive been in this exact situation so I do know what Im talking about

and this is no help to the OP. He needs to discuss this with his ex and if she still will not agree he needs to get himself down to dolphin house and begin proceedings before time runs out

brokensoul

legallynotgud wrote: »

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

I am certain that i am not and i think that your posts on here are very misleading.

You seem to think that the father will be given guardinaship only if the mother agrees to it or she is of unsound mind, that is not true. Furthermore, the father being given guardianship doesnt mean it is taken from the mother, it mean that they share guardianship.

In relation to this quote

"Statistics for 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers applying for guardianship in Ireland in that year had orders granted in their favour.

In the instances in bold all of them were instances of an unfit mother. The OP hasnt given us any indication of that in this instance. The courts won't allow him guardianship unless she agrees I guaranteee it."- can you tell me where you got this information please? I work in the area and this conflicts directly with my experiences and anything i have read.

dotsman

Hi OP,

the following sounds relevant to you and is why you need to seek legal advice urgently.

pookie82

dotsman wrote: »

Hi OP,

the following sounds relevant to you and is why you need to seek legal advice urgently.

The Irish times is giving a different slant on it, quoting custody as what the father was refused:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0428/breaking47.html

Dionysus

According to the usually highly reliable Citizens' Information Board on the rights of unmarried men to guardianship:

'If a child in Ireland is born out outside of marriage, the mother is the sole guardian. The position of the unmarried father of the child is not so certain. If the mother agrees, the father can become a joint-guardian if both parents sign a "statutory declaration". The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths.

This declaration states the names of the parents of the child, that they are unmarried and that they agree that the father should be appointed as a joint-guardian. The declaration also states that the parents have agreed arrangements regarding custody of and access to the child. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

However, if the mother does not agree to sign the statutory declaration or agree that the father be appointed as joint guardian, the father must apply to the court to be appointed as a joint-guardian. You do not require legal representation to do this, you can make the application on your own behalf. Apply directly to the the District Court and contact the clerk of the court to institute proceedings. (This is possible, irrespective of whether your name is on the child's birth certificate or not). Statistics from 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers who applied for guardianship had orders granted in their favour.

While the mother's views are taken into account, the fact that she does not consent to the guardianship application does not automatically mean that the court will refuse the order sought by the father. Instead, the court will decide what is in the best interest of the child.'


The above information would make the earlier comment by poster legallynotgud very poor advice without a basis in Irish law:

legallynotgud wrote: »

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere.

LegacyUser

hi, and thank you for your replies, concerns, sympathies and information.

i will now use tomorrow, indefinitely, to seek guardianship rights to my child. my ex partner is now making conversation between the two of us unbearable, driving me demented and more angry each time we talk.

many of her threats so far have been empty, but the thoughts are in her head, and being verbally related onto me, so i have no choice to retaliate through lawful means.

i know i haven't been a perfect partner, and maybe i am solely responsible for the relationship breakdown/ending. if you are not in love with someone, the truth about that will surface in the future. while the relationship is well and truly over, the legacy of our relationship will live on through our daughter.

our daughter should now be the only link between us, and while there is hatred and disrespect between us, the child is the only one who will truly suffer. so, as adults, fighting solves nothing for anyone, and we should at least try to be amicable.

i feel that i could always be better as a father, and i try to play by my ex partners rules, but she makes it difficult to get along whenever she can. refusing to reply to test messages when asking about my child, and asking me "what do i want now" when i call her.
should i be barked at for asking how my child is?

i could be a worse father and not give a damn, but i chose to be a part of my childs life, which falls on blind eyes and deaf ears.

the best thing for my child, i believe, is to have their real parents around them. i am not asking for my child to be taken from it's mother, all i want is to be part of my childs life.

i dont know if this is relevant, but my child has my religion, country of birth and my surname. my ex, i'm convinced, would probably like to irradicate me entirely from my childs life and change all this. she has already mentioned changing my childs name, and this is the tip of the iceberg

will joint guardianship keep my children in this country?

tenchi-fan

worried and annoyed wrote: »

will joint guardianship keep my children in this country?

Op , stop wasting time on boards and get to a family law solicitor! (ok do it tomorrow seeing as they're shut now!)

People on this board are posting links to recent news articles... I'm pretty sure the facts of the case in the article are a lot different to your situation.

It's possible she will be prevented from leaving the country with your child but once she leaves there is little you can do.

bedrock#1

i got guardianship of my son although it was a struggle, the courts automatically side with the mother.... i originally went to the district court with 3 applications. 1 - to have access regulated 2 - to have maintainance regulated (she was extorting me) and 3 - to have guardianship. I was told i could apply for guardianship and access but only the mother of the child copuld apply for maintainance payments !! thats the Irish legal system for you.... if you can get joint guardianship she can't leave the country with your child without your permission.

dearly123

worried and annoyed wrote: »

i am an irish unmarried father of an irish baby girl, born to another EU citizen.

basically, the relationship broke down and we split up, but we live close to each other and i get the see my girl almost whenever i like.

shortly after we broke up my ex started dating someone for britain, and according to her she is "in love" with her new friend. i am happy for her, but she has known this person all of less than 3 months, and now she has the plan to move to britain regardless of what i say.

now, i don't have guardianship over my girl, when i asked my ex about it she laughed in my face. my baby also has a passport which i signed for, i hadnt assumed she would be leaving the country for good, at least thats her intentions now though

i have told her that i want to see my baby, and that its important for my baby to see and know her father, not to grow up with some stranger. does doesnt seem relevant to my ex-girlfriend though.

is there anything i can do to prevent her from leaving, or at least make her see sense in what she is doing.

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

dotsman

dearly123 wrote: »

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

why?

LegacyUser

worried and annoyed wrote: »

hi,

i know i haven't been a perfect partner, and maybe i am solely responsible for the relationship breakdown/ending. if you are not in love with someone, the truth about that will surface in the future. while the relationship is well and truly over, the legacy of our relationship will live on through our daughter.

i feel that i could always be better as a father, and i try to play by my ex partners rules, but she makes it difficult to get along whenever she can. refusing to reply to test messages when asking about my child, and asking me "what do i want now" when i call her.
should i be barked at for asking how my child is?

i could be a worse father and not give a damn, but i chose to be a part of my childs life, which falls on blind eyes and deaf ears.

?

Ok going against the grain a little here but this is slightly different from your first post. It looks like you fell out of love with her and left her on her own to be a single parent. Regardless of whether or not you want to be involved in childs life, your ex is still parenting alone. She is very likely to be angry and hurt and now after you left her you are trying to stop her leaving the country even though u didnt want her.

So I would advise you go to dolphin house, its likely she will be very upset when she gets the reg. letter in the post. Make sure you have a record of maintenace that you have paid. Then give her space for a while and try to talk to her again as really if she is hell bent on going, there will probably be a court battle which she will win. You will get guardianship in court there is no doubt about that but then she will just apply to leave the juristriction without your permission. It could even be that she is just blowing hot air and never intends leaving but by applying though the courts she will know you are serious.

Then for heavens sake dont text her asking how child is. Keep interactions between you to a minimum and only talk about child and access pickups/dropoffs. Take up your access and leave her in peace.

Now I'm speaking from experience as ive gone tru what your ex did & it hurts like hell

tenchi-fan

dearly123 wrote: »

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

the idiotic mother who is going to live with her new fling she hardly knows in britain?

The child is welcome to stay with the mother, however the mother will have a responsibility to remain in Ireland.

I don't know where you're going with this, dearly, but the op is seeking advice on guardianship of his son so try not to introduce some extreme feminist debate into this thread. In my opinion there are a lot of children in this country who would benefit greatly if they were removed from their mother. Heroin addict mothers, alcoholics.. or mothers who try to cut the child's father out of the child's life.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere. Best thing you can do is really try plead with the mother to allow joint guardianship.

Actually guardinaship is nearly always awarded in the courts to a father - esp if he has had contact with the kid. In 2008 I thinkonly 11.5% had it denied and it was 2.5% in 07- so head up and good luck- your daughter will be glad to know in years to come she had a dad who was willing to fight for her.

up for anything

worried and annoyed wrote: »

i have not paid much maintenance, due to overstretched income, and close to job loss. i have asked my ex if she needs anything at all, anytime for my girl, and i give what i can when i can. i should give more, but i would like to see where my money is going, so i buy what my girl needs ie. food/clothes. i have no receipts for anything, and so i show myself to not really give a damn about my girl, yet i love her and want to be a part of her life.


i want my ex to have a life, a happy one, but surely there has to be a balance for whats right for the child.

I don't see why she shouldn't move to Britain. Maybe she is not just moving away to be with her new boyfriend but to get away from you.

You don't trust her where money is concerned. You imply in your posts that she is leaving with your daughter on a whim which makes her out to be a bit dim and not thinking of what is right for her child. As somebody said based on your posts

the idiotic mother who is going to live with her new fling she hardly knows in britain?

You are horrified at the thoughts of her going to Britain to be with someone she has only known for three months. Sometimes it doesn't take three months to know that someone is right for you. It would also probably be illuminating to know how long you were with her before she got pregnant.

Yet to me you are the one who seems to be behaving badly both now and during your relationship and I would imagine that her changing attitude is relation to your behaviour both during the relationship and now. Maybe you should pull back, get some counselling and as someone else suggested cut back texts to a minimum and then maybe she would be more amenable to remaining here with your child.

I hope you manage to sort out some sort of legal and amicable arrangement with her but it is foolish to imagine that she would remain in a country not her own in order for you to continue treating her as you have yourself described in not so many words.

LegacyUser

OP - if it is genuinely the best interests of the child you have at heart and not your personal battle of wills with the mother. Have you considered following them to England and getting a job there so that your child still has a chance to grow up with a father nearby?

You may well feel it's not fair you having to uproot yourself but the mother obviously feels it would not be fair on her having to stay in a country not her own, as said above, and feel she is putting her life on hold so that you can have access to the child. The point is, it's not about what's fair to the adults because you will probably never agree. It's about putting the child first.

Of course you can pursue the guardianship through the courts and I'm not saying you'd be wrong to try everything. However, by mentioning to the mother that you would be prepared to move too, it might bring home to her the fact that the two of you are tied together through the child for a long time to come yet, and while you both want to live your own lives, it's in both your best interests to talk seriously about the most pragmatic solution. Show her how serious you are, quite simply.

LegacyUser

guest_guest wrote: »

OP - if it is genuinely the best interests of the child you have at heart and not your personal battle of wills with the mother. Have you considered following them to England and getting a job there so that your child still has a chance to grow up with a father nearby?

that's not a bad idea actually!

If the solution in the Irish courts doesn't work out, follow her to England and take a similar case to the English courts. It's a brilliant idea!
However, I would not suggest anything to the mother without first consulting a family law solicitor.