Ex-girlfriend bringing kid to Britain

LegacyUser

i am an irish unmarried father of an irish baby girl, born to another EU citizen.

basically, the relationship broke down and we split up, but we live close to each other and i get the see my girl almost whenever i like.

shortly after we broke up my ex started dating someone for britain, and according to her she is "in love" with her new friend. i am happy for her, but she has known this person all of less than 3 months, and now she has the plan to move to britain regardless of what i say.

now, i don't have guardianship over my girl, when i asked my ex about it she laughed in my face. my baby also has a passport which i signed for, i hadnt assumed she would be leaving the country for good, at least thats her intentions now though

i have told her that i want to see my baby, and that its important for my baby to see and know her father, not to grow up with some stranger. does doesnt seem relevant to my ex-girlfriend though.

is there anything i can do to prevent her from leaving, or at least make her see sense in what she is doing.

pookie82

Seek legal advice immediately. You can take her to court for guardianship of your child regardless of her agreement - solicitors try and push for this to be an amicable process but if you have no choice you can pursue it through the courts.

I would get the wheels in motion BEFORE she leaves the country. Do you have a record of paying child maintenance etc? Unfortunately you have a battle on your hands as this country doesn't favour a biological father with any right which the mother doesn't want to give him unless he pushes through the courts so you need to be armed with the best knowledge there is. Don't hang around on this one.

Nevyn

Go and apply to the courts for guardianship ASAP

Asphyxia

Go to a solicitor straight away and have a big talk, a similar thing happend in my family ages ago it's all cleared up now but you have a long hard road ahead of you as men have alot less rights the courts usually favour the mother in custody battles. The only thing that I can see that they might do is grant you to have the child on holidays it isn't alot but adleast she will get to know her father. My heart goes out to you, Goodluck.

Bluefox21

As most people have said get legal advice asap! You'll need to apply to the District Court for guardianship (you don't actually need a solicitor for this the District Court will help you through the process), it will really help if you have a good relationship with the child, have been paying maintenance etc. Without guardianship you have zero entitlements.

LegacyUser

thank you for the helpful and prompt replies

i do need to see my solicitor and i'll do that tomorrow, was trying to get in touch with the court today but find it difficult to get a number in which to call someone direct, to help me in my case.

i have not paid much maintenance, due to overstretched income, and close to job loss. i have asked my ex if she needs anything at all, anytime for my girl, and i give what i can when i can. i should give more, but i would like to see where my money is going, so i buy what my girl needs ie. food/clothes. i have no receipts for anything, and so i show myself to not really give a damn about my girl, yet i love her and want to be a part of her life.

i find it stressing that she would want to move to britain, after knowing this new man less than 3 months, and meeting him on a handfull of occasions, at best. he actually resides in britain. it feels that she is not thinking of the welfare of our child, but moreso of her having a new man in her life.

i feel that she uses our child against me, to hurt me. i have no rights and she knows this but makes me feel like crap.

she talks to me as if she is doing me a favour my talking to me about getting to see my kid when she moves to britain, when i know full well that i can't jump on a place every week or two to see my child. i know that if/when she moves away access will be limited ie. i can't just show up, and i feel that the relationship i have with the daughter will slowly diminish, until she will never know who i am in the future, or even recognize me.

am i selfish to make my ex stay in ireland with my child, and forget about this other man who she has known a wet week, just so i can be in my kids life?

i want my ex to have a life, a happy one, but surely there has to be a balance for whats right for the child.

LegacyUser

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere. Best thing you can do is really try plead with the mother to allow joint guardianship.

LegacyUser

Go down to dolphin house court the quays and apply for guardianship and access hearing at same time

The courts will appoint him as legal guardian, they have no reason not to. Then your ex wont be able to leave the country without your permission

I wouldnt be hanging around, call into dolphin house tomorrow as there is often a few mths wait for a court date

tenchi-fan

I think behaviour like that is a good enough reason for her to lose custody. it's disgusting to think she will raise her daughter with such a horrible attitude.

I hope you get something sorted out, even if it is only an order that prevents her from taking your daughter out of the country. signing for the passport was such a ridiculous move on your part and you should have discussed it with a solicitor first. regardless of any deal your ex offers you, first discuss it with your solicitor and never sign anything without legal advice.

T83

worried and annoyed wrote: »

am i selfish to make my ex stay in ireland with my child, and forget about this other man who she has known a wet week, just so i can be in my kids life?

i want my ex to have a life, a happy one, but surely there has to be a balance for whats right for the child.

No you're not... not at all. She's entitled to a life of course, but that childs life comes first, she had a child with somebody in Ireland who is actively trying to be a part of that childs life, she should stay in Ireland end of story!
I havent seen my father since I was 12 years old, i'm 27 now and it still plays on my mind on a daily basis. Believe me something like that has a huge effect on a child, how they think, who they trust, and how it effects all future relationships. My father couldn't be bothered, but the fact that you want to be a part of that girls life makes all the difference.

You're Ex is being incredibly selfish, and people can jump down my throats if they want about single women being entitled to their own life but I could care less and I'm sick of this degeneration of the idea of family, when it's not prevented by death a child is entitled to have both parents whether those parents are together themselves or not.

Sorry if I ranted and raved a bit, but this hits close to home.

hollis12

T83 wrote: »

No you're not... not at all. She's entitled to a life of course, but that childs life comes first, she had a child with somebody in Ireland who is actively trying to be a part of that childs life, she should stay in Ireland end of story!
I havent seen my father since I was 12 years old, i'm 27 now and it still plays on my mind on a daily basis. Believe me something like that has a huge effect on a child, how they think, who they trust, and how it effects all future relationships. My father couldn't be bothered, but the fact that you want to be a part of that girls life makes all the difference.

You're Ex is being incredibly selfish, and people can jump down my throats if they want about single women being entitled to their own life but I could care less and I'm sick of this degeneration of the idea of family, when it's not prevented by death a child is entitled to have both parents whether those parents are together themselves or not.

Sorry if I ranted and raved a bit, but this hits close to home.

Your so right mate, the woman is incredibly selfish and you have legal grounds for full custody because whatever about her life these actions are damaging to her child basically shes removing the child from one of two of the most important people they will meet in their life.

Everyone can do whatever they want to do in their life but if that involves seperating the child from a loving parent well then tough sh1t do something that doesnt involve ripping a child away from a major source of love in his/her life.

mate go to the courts her intent to bring a child to england will be grounds for you to apply for gaurdian ship.

LegacyUser

i would like to include that all godparents and grandparents are currently residing in ireland right now. my ex has no connection with britain and knows only this new man.

it's worrying to think what life my ex would have in a different country...i'm thinking housing and benefits, which my child needs to have a "normal" upbringing.

LegacyUser

hewillgetit wrote: »

Go down to dolphin house court the quays and apply for guardianship and access hearing at same time

The courts will appoint him as legal guardian, they have no reason not to. Then your ex wont be able to leave the country without your permission

I wouldnt be hanging around, call into dolphin house tomorrow as there is often a few mths wait for a court date

The courts will not appoint an unmarried natural father as legal guardian without mother's permission. That is fact. It is imbedded in our constitution.

Nevyn

What makes you say that? cos I know of 3 unmarried fathers who got made guardians of their children by court appointment.

brokensoul

legallynotgud wrote: »

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere. Best thing you can do is really try plead with the mother to allow joint guardianship.

Rubbish, complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, it isnt precedent that determines that unmarreid father have to apply for guardinship it is law. The fact that a mothers consent is needed for a father to become guardian is not in our constitution.

Secondly, are much more importantly, fathers are almost always ( 90% plus of the time) granted guardianship if they apply for it.

You can make the application directly in your local district Court. If you want a solicitor to represent you in Court then you can go to one, but you can represent yourself in court if you wish. Basically, money should not be a barr to you getting guardianship.

Also, the mother is not allowed to use sporadic or non payment of maintenance as a grounds to deny acess or guardianship.

LegacyUser

brokensoul wrote: »

Rubbish, complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, it isnt precedent that determines that unmarreid father have to apply for guardinship it is law. The fact that a mothers consent is needed for a father to become guardian is not in our constitution.

Secondly, are much more importantly, fathers are almost always ( 90% plus of the time) granted guardianship if they apply for it.

You can make the application directly in your local district Court. If you want a solicitor to represent you in Court then you can go to one, but you can represent yourself in court if you wish. Basically, money should not be a barr to you getting guardianship.

Also, the mother is not allowed to use sporadic or non payment of maintenance as a grounds to deny acess or guardianship.

The rights of the child will always be deemed to be best served with the natural mother unless she gives up those rights. Read on google the cases of Nicolau v an Bord Uchtala and K v W.

LegacyUser

brokensoul wrote: »

Rubbish, complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, it isnt precedent that determines that unmarreid father have to apply for guardinship it is law. The fact that a mothers consent is needed for a father to become guardian is not in our constitution.

Secondly, are much more importantly, fathers are almost always ( 90% plus of the time) granted guardianship if they apply for it.

You can make the application directly in your local district Court. If you want a solicitor to represent you in Court then you can go to one, but you can represent yourself in court if you wish. Basically, money should not be a barr to you getting guardianship.

Also, the mother is not allowed to use sporadic or non payment of maintenance as a grounds to deny acess or guardianship.

Just to further clarify

All mothers in Ireland, irrespective of whether they are married or unmarried, have automatic guardianship status in relation to their children, unless they give the child up for adoption. A father who is married to the mother of his child also has automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. This applies even if the couple married after the birth of the child. The rights of parents to guardianship are set down in Section 6 the Guardianship of Infants Act 1964. Guardianship rights entitle a parent to make important decisions regarding that child's upbringing, for example, deciding on the child's religion, education, medical treatment and where he/she lives.

However, a father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. If the mother agrees for him to be legally appointed guardian, they must sign a joint statutory declaration. The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

If the mother does not agree for him to have guardianship, he may apply for this status to the District Court. Statistics for 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers applying for guardianship in Ireland in that year had orders granted in their favour.

In the instances in bold all of them were instances of an unfit mother. The OP hasnt given us any indication of that in this instance. The courts won't allow him guardianship unless she agrees I guaranteee it.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

The courts will not appoint an unmarried natural father as legal guardian without mother's permission. That is fact. It is imbedded in our constitution.

Never heard such absolute rubbish in my life. Where did you get your info form. Ive been there and from what the OP has said he is involved in his childs life and therefore there is no valid reason for him not to get it.

The mother may not agree but the judge will grant it unless the OP is not telling us all the info and he is a raving axe murder or a danger to the children

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

Just to further clarify

All mothers in Ireland, irrespective of whether they are married or unmarried, have automatic guardianship status in relation to their children, unless they give the child up for adoption. A father who is married to the mother of his child also has automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. This applies even if the couple married after the birth of the child. The rights of parents to guardianship are set down in Section 6 the Guardianship of Infants Act 1964. Guardianship rights entitle a parent to make important decisions regarding that child's upbringing, for example, deciding on the child's religion, education, medical treatment and where he/she lives.

However, a father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. If the mother agrees for him to be legally appointed guardian, they must sign a joint statutory declaration. The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

If the mother does not agree for him to have guardianship, he may apply for this status to the District Court. Statistics for 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers applying for guardianship in Ireland in that year had orders granted in their favour.

In the instances in bold all of them were instances of an unfit mother. The OP hasnt given us any indication of that in this instance. The courts won't allow him guardianship unless she agrees I guaranteee it.

Are you living on the same planet as the rest of us???? so what you are basically saying is that of the applications to the district court, most of these fathers ex partners are unfit mothers??? There must be an awful lot of unfit mothers about so....... you are getting better and better each time you post.

It is closer to 90% had their guardianship granted but most certainly not because the exes were unfit mothers. Hilarous you are.

Bluefox21

Do you have any basis for that allegation? The mothers behaviour is pretty irrelevant unless she is actually deemed to be "an unfit mother". The case will be decided on the merits of the fathers application and significantly what is in the best interests of the child. Therefore if it is not in the best interests of the child to go to England (which seems to be the case) the father has a strong chance of succeeding

hollis12

legallynotgud wrote: »

The courts will not appoint an unmarried natural father as legal guardian without mother's permission. That is fact. It is imbedded in our constitution.

Unless the mother is not of sound mind and if shes displacing her kid and removing the father from the childs life that woul be a case for of not sound mind, true its in our constitution but many legal minds consider it quite backward that its in our constitution and will use other means to award custody of the child like her "not being of sound mind"

RIRI

OP do you have any kind of relationship with your exes family or friends at all? Obviously upping sticks & moving to the UK with a small child is a big move so perhaps someone close to her might make her see sense? From what you have said if it was my sister/friend planning to do this to live with a man she hardly knows I would be very concerned & happy to have a chat with her on your behalf.

Of course you need to get the legal stuff sorted asap, the number for the family circuit court is 01 8886806 if that's any help

Best of luck to you

LegacyUser

hewillgetit wrote: »

Never heard such absolute rubbish in my life. Where did you get your info form. Ive been there and from what the OP has said he is involved in his childs life and therefore there is no valid reason for him not to get it.

The mother may not agree but the judge will grant it unless the OP is not telling us all the info and he is a raving axe murder or a danger to the children

Are you a solicitor?

From McMarion Campell solicitors website :

The following relates to children born of parents who are not married at the time of birth. In those circumstances only the natural mother is automatically deemed to be a Guardian. The natural father can become a Guardian by a number of means:

a. Subsequently marry the natural mother. - Not possible here
b. Apply to the Courts to be appointed a Guardian. It is important to note there is no automatic right to be appointed a Guardian, rather it is merely a right to apply to be appointed, refer to the decision of Keegan –v- Ireland which changed the Law in that respect. See Bolded Part in next paragraph
c. Reach an agreement with the natural mother to be appointed a Guardian. This agreement must be given effect to by the making of a Statutory Declaration. Your best chance as I've been saying


Following the death of the natural mother or other Guardian, the natural father may be appointed Guardian. If he is so appointed, he is referred to as a “Testamentary Guardian”. Up until 20 years ago, the issue of Guardianship rights of unmarried fathers was quite simple. There were no such rights. It was not until the Status of Children’s Act 1987 that natural fathers could apply to Courts to be appointed a Guardian. It was made very clear by the Supreme Court in the decision of JK –v- VW that this was merely a right to apply and was not a right to be automatically be appointed Guardian. Natural mothers have an automatic right to Guardianship, natural fathers do not.


There is an extreme outside chance of being awarded guardianship but it is highly unlikely unless the mother consents.

Are a lot of people confusing visitation rights with guardianship I wonder?

LegacyUser

Bluefox21 wrote: »

Do you have any basis for that allegation? The mothers behaviour is pretty irrelevant unless she is actually deemed to be "an unfit mother". The case will be decided on the merits of the fathers application and significantly what is in the best interests of the child. Therefore if it is not in the best interests of the child to go to England (which seems to be the case) the father has a strong chance of succeeding

Doesn't quite work that way. The courts state that a child's best interests always lay with their natural mother. If the mother doesn't want joint guardianship as it would restrict her unenumerated right to travel and she is a mother of sound mind then the courts will rule in her favour.

LegacyUser

hollis12 wrote: »

Unless the mother is not of sound mind and if shes displacing her kid and removing the father from the childs life that woul be a case for of not sound mind, true its in our constitution but many legal minds consider it quite backward that its in our constitution and will use other means to award custody of the child like her "not being of sound mind"

Firstly, I agree that the constitution is outdated but thats not my fault. The fact is posters here are telling the OP to battle in court and its going to be to his detriment. Its going to piss off his ex, the courts will rule against him and she will never agree to joint guardianship.
The OPs best way to go about this is to try get joint guardianship.

As for the displacing the child argument, it wont hold up. Courts have returned babies to mothers who placed them up for adoption 2 YEARS after they had settled with their adoptive parents because in the eyes of the court, the natural mother always has inalienable rights to her child. Arguments that this would be psychologically damaging to the child weren't enough then and they won't be enough now.

OP I really think bringing your ex to court is the wrong way to go about it. Beg her, plead for joint guardianship.

LittleBook

legallynotgud wrote: »

However, a father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. If the mother agrees for him to be legally appointed guardian, they must sign a joint statutory declaration. The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

If the mother does not agree for him to have guardianship, he may apply for this status to the District Court. Statistics for 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers applying for guardianship in Ireland in that year had orders granted in their favour.

This is copied almost verbatim from the Citizensinformation.ie site which I recommend you visit OP.

However, contrary to what has been indicated in previous posts, the next paragraph from the site is this:

While the mother's views are taken into account, the fact that she does not consent to the guardianship application does not automatically mean that the court will refuse the order sought by the father. Instead, the court will decide what is in the best interest of the child.

In situations where the father has been appointed joint guardian of a child, then his consent is required for certain things relating to the child's general welfare and other items. (For example, for passport applications for the child). Read more about passports for children of unmarried parents here (pdf). The father's consent is also required for the adoption of the child by another couple (or by the mother and her husband). Read more about adoption here.

LegacyUser

LittleBook wrote: »

However, contrary to what has been indicated in previous posts, the next paragraph from the site is this:

Quote:
While the mother's views are taken into account, the fact that she does not consent to the guardianship application does not automatically mean that the court will refuse the order sought by the father. Instead, the court will decide what is in the best interest of the child.

And unless the mother is not of sound mind the courts interpret the best interest of the child to always lay with the natural mother!!!!

LegacyUser

I think people are confusing joint guardianship with joint custody,

Apply for joint guardianship, from what you've told us there is no reason why you shouldn't get it, the mother can object of course but the judge will always grant it unless there is a specific reason why the father shouldn't become a guardian.

It is important for you be made a guardian (especially if this move to the U.K goes ahead), for example if she did move and god forbid your ex died then you would have a battle on your hands in relation to custody etc even though you would be the only surviving parent.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

And unless the mother is not of sound mind the courts interpret the best interest of the child to always lay with the natural mother!!!!

I'm a mother and although I didnt want my ex to have guardianship, he still got it though court so you are totally wrong unless of course you want to make out that I am an unfit mother?

You really dont have a clue, almost all fathers who have an interest in their children will get guardianship but it really means feck all because the control is still with the parent (mother or father) who have the day to day care of the child.

LegacyUser

hewillgetit wrote: »

You really dont have a clue, almost all fathers who have an interest in their children will get guardianship but it really means feck all because the control is still with the parent (mother or father) who have the day to day care of the child.

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

pookie82

legallynotgud wrote: »

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

Why are you mentioning joint custody? We're talking about guardianship. I think you might be the one getting carried away and confused.

I know of numerous unmarried fathers who won guardianship through the courts though the mother opposed it. That's not CUSTODY now, it's guardianship. Two different things completely. And none of the mothers in these cases were what could be considered bad mothers. So your insistence that it's impossible just doesn't hold up.

pookie82

legallynotgud wrote: »

The rights of the child will always be deemed to be best served with the natural mother unless she gives up those rights. Read on google the cases of Nicolau v an Bord Uchtala and K v W.

No one is proposing the child be taken from the mother, just that the dad is made legal guardian. One does not lead to another. A judge can feel that the best interests of the child are for it to remain with the mother - that won't have any bearing on granting guardianship, as this is not custody.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

Where did I mention Joint Custody? or visitation rights

You said a father wouldnt get guardianship if the mother didnt agree. I'm telling you (so is everyone else) that if the OP applies for guardianship he will get it.

I then mentioned guardianship doesnt give a hell of a lot of rights for exampe if said father refuses to sign passport forms, mother can then apply for judge to waive his right to have them signed by both parties

I have experience as in Ive been in this exact situation so I do know what Im talking about

and this is no help to the OP. He needs to discuss this with his ex and if she still will not agree he needs to get himself down to dolphin house and begin proceedings before time runs out

brokensoul

legallynotgud wrote: »

Guardianship doesn't mean **** all it means the father is equal in the eyes of law to that of the mother. Are you sure your not confusing guardianship with visitation rights? Very, very unlikely for the court to rule for joint custody when the mother doesn't want it.

I am certain that i am not and i think that your posts on here are very misleading.

You seem to think that the father will be given guardinaship only if the mother agrees to it or she is of unsound mind, that is not true. Furthermore, the father being given guardianship doesnt mean it is taken from the mother, it mean that they share guardianship.

In relation to this quote

"Statistics for 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers applying for guardianship in Ireland in that year had orders granted in their favour.

In the instances in bold all of them were instances of an unfit mother. The OP hasnt given us any indication of that in this instance. The courts won't allow him guardianship unless she agrees I guaranteee it."- can you tell me where you got this information please? I work in the area and this conflicts directly with my experiences and anything i have read.

dotsman

Hi OP,

the following sounds relevant to you and is why you need to seek legal advice urgently.

pookie82

dotsman wrote: »

Hi OP,

the following sounds relevant to you and is why you need to seek legal advice urgently.

The Irish times is giving a different slant on it, quoting custody as what the father was refused:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0428/breaking47.html

Dionysus

According to the usually highly reliable Citizens' Information Board on the rights of unmarried men to guardianship:

'If a child in Ireland is born out outside of marriage, the mother is the sole guardian. The position of the unmarried father of the child is not so certain. If the mother agrees, the father can become a joint-guardian if both parents sign a "statutory declaration". The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths.

This declaration states the names of the parents of the child, that they are unmarried and that they agree that the father should be appointed as a joint-guardian. The declaration also states that the parents have agreed arrangements regarding custody of and access to the child. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

However, if the mother does not agree to sign the statutory declaration or agree that the father be appointed as joint guardian, the father must apply to the court to be appointed as a joint-guardian. You do not require legal representation to do this, you can make the application on your own behalf. Apply directly to the the District Court and contact the clerk of the court to institute proceedings. (This is possible, irrespective of whether your name is on the child's birth certificate or not). Statistics from 2004 show that 70% of the 1,237 unmarried fathers who applied for guardianship had orders granted in their favour.

While the mother's views are taken into account, the fact that she does not consent to the guardianship application does not automatically mean that the court will refuse the order sought by the father. Instead, the court will decide what is in the best interest of the child.'


The above information would make the earlier comment by poster legallynotgud very poor advice without a basis in Irish law:

legallynotgud wrote: »

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere.

LegacyUser

hi, and thank you for your replies, concerns, sympathies and information.

i will now use tomorrow, indefinitely, to seek guardianship rights to my child. my ex partner is now making conversation between the two of us unbearable, driving me demented and more angry each time we talk.

many of her threats so far have been empty, but the thoughts are in her head, and being verbally related onto me, so i have no choice to retaliate through lawful means.

i know i haven't been a perfect partner, and maybe i am solely responsible for the relationship breakdown/ending. if you are not in love with someone, the truth about that will surface in the future. while the relationship is well and truly over, the legacy of our relationship will live on through our daughter.

our daughter should now be the only link between us, and while there is hatred and disrespect between us, the child is the only one who will truly suffer. so, as adults, fighting solves nothing for anyone, and we should at least try to be amicable.

i feel that i could always be better as a father, and i try to play by my ex partners rules, but she makes it difficult to get along whenever she can. refusing to reply to test messages when asking about my child, and asking me "what do i want now" when i call her.
should i be barked at for asking how my child is?

i could be a worse father and not give a damn, but i chose to be a part of my childs life, which falls on blind eyes and deaf ears.

the best thing for my child, i believe, is to have their real parents around them. i am not asking for my child to be taken from it's mother, all i want is to be part of my childs life.

i dont know if this is relevant, but my child has my religion, country of birth and my surname. my ex, i'm convinced, would probably like to irradicate me entirely from my childs life and change all this. she has already mentioned changing my childs name, and this is the tip of the iceberg

will joint guardianship keep my children in this country?

tenchi-fan

worried and annoyed wrote: »

will joint guardianship keep my children in this country?

Op , stop wasting time on boards and get to a family law solicitor! (ok do it tomorrow seeing as they're shut now!)

People on this board are posting links to recent news articles... I'm pretty sure the facts of the case in the article are a lot different to your situation.

It's possible she will be prevented from leaving the country with your child but once she leaves there is little you can do.

bedrock#1

i got guardianship of my son although it was a struggle, the courts automatically side with the mother.... i originally went to the district court with 3 applications. 1 - to have access regulated 2 - to have maintainance regulated (she was extorting me) and 3 - to have guardianship. I was told i could apply for guardianship and access but only the mother of the child copuld apply for maintainance payments !! thats the Irish legal system for you.... if you can get joint guardianship she can't leave the country with your child without your permission.

dearly123

worried and annoyed wrote: »

i am an irish unmarried father of an irish baby girl, born to another EU citizen.

basically, the relationship broke down and we split up, but we live close to each other and i get the see my girl almost whenever i like.

shortly after we broke up my ex started dating someone for britain, and according to her she is "in love" with her new friend. i am happy for her, but she has known this person all of less than 3 months, and now she has the plan to move to britain regardless of what i say.

now, i don't have guardianship over my girl, when i asked my ex about it she laughed in my face. my baby also has a passport which i signed for, i hadnt assumed she would be leaving the country for good, at least thats her intentions now though

i have told her that i want to see my baby, and that its important for my baby to see and know her father, not to grow up with some stranger. does doesnt seem relevant to my ex-girlfriend though.

is there anything i can do to prevent her from leaving, or at least make her see sense in what she is doing.

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

dotsman

dearly123 wrote: »

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

why?

LegacyUser

worried and annoyed wrote: »

hi,

i know i haven't been a perfect partner, and maybe i am solely responsible for the relationship breakdown/ending. if you are not in love with someone, the truth about that will surface in the future. while the relationship is well and truly over, the legacy of our relationship will live on through our daughter.

i feel that i could always be better as a father, and i try to play by my ex partners rules, but she makes it difficult to get along whenever she can. refusing to reply to test messages when asking about my child, and asking me "what do i want now" when i call her.
should i be barked at for asking how my child is?

i could be a worse father and not give a damn, but i chose to be a part of my childs life, which falls on blind eyes and deaf ears.

?

Ok going against the grain a little here but this is slightly different from your first post. It looks like you fell out of love with her and left her on her own to be a single parent. Regardless of whether or not you want to be involved in childs life, your ex is still parenting alone. She is very likely to be angry and hurt and now after you left her you are trying to stop her leaving the country even though u didnt want her.

So I would advise you go to dolphin house, its likely she will be very upset when she gets the reg. letter in the post. Make sure you have a record of maintenace that you have paid. Then give her space for a while and try to talk to her again as really if she is hell bent on going, there will probably be a court battle which she will win. You will get guardianship in court there is no doubt about that but then she will just apply to leave the juristriction without your permission. It could even be that she is just blowing hot air and never intends leaving but by applying though the courts she will know you are serious.

Then for heavens sake dont text her asking how child is. Keep interactions between you to a minimum and only talk about child and access pickups/dropoffs. Take up your access and leave her in peace.

Now I'm speaking from experience as ive gone tru what your ex did & it hurts like hell

tenchi-fan

dearly123 wrote: »

I feel for you, but the child has to stay with her mother.

the idiotic mother who is going to live with her new fling she hardly knows in britain?

The child is welcome to stay with the mother, however the mother will have a responsibility to remain in Ireland.

I don't know where you're going with this, dearly, but the op is seeking advice on guardianship of his son so try not to introduce some extreme feminist debate into this thread. In my opinion there are a lot of children in this country who would benefit greatly if they were removed from their mother. Heroin addict mothers, alcoholics.. or mothers who try to cut the child's father out of the child's life.

LegacyUser

legallynotgud wrote: »

Unless she specifically agrees to joint guardianship then she can take the baby wherever she wants. Preceedent in this area states unmarried, natural fathers only have a right to apply for guardianship and the courts will not award guardianship to a father unless the natural mother agrees to it. Legally you won't get anywhere. Best thing you can do is really try plead with the mother to allow joint guardianship.

Actually guardinaship is nearly always awarded in the courts to a father - esp if he has had contact with the kid. In 2008 I thinkonly 11.5% had it denied and it was 2.5% in 07- so head up and good luck- your daughter will be glad to know in years to come she had a dad who was willing to fight for her.

up for anything

worried and annoyed wrote: »

i have not paid much maintenance, due to overstretched income, and close to job loss. i have asked my ex if she needs anything at all, anytime for my girl, and i give what i can when i can. i should give more, but i would like to see where my money is going, so i buy what my girl needs ie. food/clothes. i have no receipts for anything, and so i show myself to not really give a damn about my girl, yet i love her and want to be a part of her life.


i want my ex to have a life, a happy one, but surely there has to be a balance for whats right for the child.

I don't see why she shouldn't move to Britain. Maybe she is not just moving away to be with her new boyfriend but to get away from you.

You don't trust her where money is concerned. You imply in your posts that she is leaving with your daughter on a whim which makes her out to be a bit dim and not thinking of what is right for her child. As somebody said based on your posts

the idiotic mother who is going to live with her new fling she hardly knows in britain?

You are horrified at the thoughts of her going to Britain to be with someone she has only known for three months. Sometimes it doesn't take three months to know that someone is right for you. It would also probably be illuminating to know how long you were with her before she got pregnant.

Yet to me you are the one who seems to be behaving badly both now and during your relationship and I would imagine that her changing attitude is relation to your behaviour both during the relationship and now. Maybe you should pull back, get some counselling and as someone else suggested cut back texts to a minimum and then maybe she would be more amenable to remaining here with your child.

I hope you manage to sort out some sort of legal and amicable arrangement with her but it is foolish to imagine that she would remain in a country not her own in order for you to continue treating her as you have yourself described in not so many words.

LegacyUser

OP - if it is genuinely the best interests of the child you have at heart and not your personal battle of wills with the mother. Have you considered following them to England and getting a job there so that your child still has a chance to grow up with a father nearby?

You may well feel it's not fair you having to uproot yourself but the mother obviously feels it would not be fair on her having to stay in a country not her own, as said above, and feel she is putting her life on hold so that you can have access to the child. The point is, it's not about what's fair to the adults because you will probably never agree. It's about putting the child first.

Of course you can pursue the guardianship through the courts and I'm not saying you'd be wrong to try everything. However, by mentioning to the mother that you would be prepared to move too, it might bring home to her the fact that the two of you are tied together through the child for a long time to come yet, and while you both want to live your own lives, it's in both your best interests to talk seriously about the most pragmatic solution. Show her how serious you are, quite simply.

LegacyUser

guest_guest wrote: »

OP - if it is genuinely the best interests of the child you have at heart and not your personal battle of wills with the mother. Have you considered following them to England and getting a job there so that your child still has a chance to grow up with a father nearby?

that's not a bad idea actually!

If the solution in the Irish courts doesn't work out, follow her to England and take a similar case to the English courts. It's a brilliant idea!
However, I would not suggest anything to the mother without first consulting a family law solicitor.