Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

mrsdewinter wrote: »

So, the 121 is history from this weekend? Is that right?

No - read the notice again.

The change takes place on Sunday 15th May - next weekend.

mrsdewinter

Thanks for that. Still, I hope the people of Cabra subscribe to this thread...

Devilman40k

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Thanks for that. Still, I hope the people of Cabra subscribe to this thread...

In fairness there are 6 (soon to be 5) other services in the Cabra area, removing the 121 isn't going to make that much of a difference. Some other areas are losing a hell of a lot more services both in terms or route cuts and reductions in frequency/reliability.

angel01

Devilman40k wrote: »

In fairness there are 6 (soon to be 5) other services in the Cabra area, removing the 121 isn't going to make that much of a difference. Some other areas are losing a hell of a lot more services both in terms or route cuts and reductions in frequency/reliability.

The 38, 46A don't serve Cabra West. Cabra is broken up into East and West so both of those buses do not serve the West.

LXFlyer

To be fair the 121 carried thin air most of the time - the 120 and 122 should be able to pick up the slack fairly easily.

backboiler

I see a comment from our resident Alek on another thread saying the route 11 changes (Sandyford) may come into operation in June.
Any rumbles on the other Finglas East changes 13, 19, 83, etc.?

LXFlyer

I'd say you're going to start seeing them happen in phases over the coming weeks.

Rabbitt

Anyone know why the 77 is listed as going to Citywest when it's ment to only go as far as Jobstown?

LXFlyer

Rabbitt wrote: »

Anyone know why the 77 is listed as going to Citywest when it's ment to only go as far as Jobstown?

The original plan presented at the time of the Malahide Road review was that the new 27 would operate to Citywest.

However, that changed and when the Tallaght plans were presented it was changed back to Jobstown, being replaced by the 77a to Citywest.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

The original plan presented at the time of the Malahide Road review was that the new 27 would operate to Citywest.

However, that changed and when the Tallaght plans were presented it was changed back to Jobstown, being replaced by the 77a to Citywest.

I think it's fair to say there has been a slight change of wind direction in the Network Direct implimentation process.

We now appear to have reached a place where the ND "Team" will at least nod in the direction of actuality rather than insist on pushing through theoretical elements in the face of strong reservations from customers and staff alike.

I would like to think that the huge level of Interest displayed here on Boards and at the various Public Consultation events has forced this reassesment of priorities albeit at a somewhat late stage.

Significant customer relations damage has been inflicted upon DB's already shrinking customer base which will prove very difficult,but not impossible,to restore.

There is also a sense that the National Transport Authority is stretching as it stirs from it's foundational slumber to impose it's will on matters Public Transport.

The decision to start trawling through the mountain of Licences which have lain fallow for,in some cases,years has to be seen as positive as it at last allows new options to be explored without the age old barrier of x,y or z "holding the Licence for it" thereby preventing other interested operators from applying.

SO...where to from here..?

With Dublin Bus's initial 5 year contract period now already well eaten into there needs to be some element of forward thinking in place to allow seamless transitions should they be required.

Oddly enough,I believe Dublin Bus has a reasonable chance of emerging from this process in a strong position,BUT that is totally dependent on Senior Management being willing or able to learn from the débacle that was/is Network Direct Phase 1.

The major lesson,as I see it,just has to be that the company HAS to get closer to it's customer base...airy-fairy attempts to gather bald statistics and mould them into something to fit the plan have been forcefully shown NOT to work.

The nurturing of long-term regular custom is,IMO,the only viable way forward,however this is the very type of customer who has been most discommoded by ND Phase 1's calamitous implementation attempts.

Right now,with significant and ongoing increases planned for the private motoring sector,those involved in Public Transport provision should be taking a long hard look at how to market the PT system as a viable alternative.

Cars are going to be laid-up,HP payments are going to be missed,road tax,NCT and Insurance payments are going to cause severe affordability problems for ORDINARY people.

In the context of these inevitable impositions the Public Transport Regulator and Providers should really not be putting so much effort into devising and implementing Service Cutbacks as best evidenced by the recent emasculation of the Nitelink services.

Rather than folding up the Nitelink tent and leaving the field of battle,I believe Dublin Bus should have been at least willing to experiment with a 24 hour regular service on at least one trunk QBC....try it and see....I'd be prepared to wager it might be more successful than the Suits expect !

Anyway,let us see if the remainder of Phase 2 will be more "Fit for Purpose" than waht went afore it :eek:

thomasj

Update to malahide rd plans

[Url] http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Malahide-Road--Revised-Service-Proposals/ [/Url]

the 104 will now take in clare hall and donaghmede

LXFlyer

More importantly the 79 will retain the existing 27b routing from Castletimon, rather than the far longer original proposal, the 14 will operate to/from the existing 20b terminus, and the 27x is being retained.

Good to see that customers' views are being taken on board as part of the process.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

More importantly the 79 will retain the existing 27b routing from Castletimon, rather than the far longer original proposal, the 14 will operate to/from the existing 20b terminus, and the 27x is being retained. Good to see that customers' views are being taken on board as part of the process.

It's good news that they're listening but it really should never have come to that. How they decided that their proposed route was a good one is beyond me.

Dub13

thomasj wrote: »

Update to malahide rd plans

[Url] http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Malahide-Road--Revised-Service-Proposals/ [/Url]

the 104 will now take in clare hall and donaghmede

Thats a good idea,alot of northside areas are very close to Beaumont Hospital yet its hard to get to on public transport.

backboiler

Dub13 wrote: »

Thats a good idea,alot of northside areas are very close to Beaumont Hospital yet its hard to get to on public transport.

True. Now if they'd connect the damn airport to a few areas other than the Swords Road we'd be talking.

Dub13

backboiler wrote: »

True. Now if they'd connect the damn airport to a few areas other than the Swords Road we'd be talking.

Yes,do you remember the Aerdart...?I used that a few times but it was never going to work as it did not pass enough houses.

backboiler

Leo's building his wee railway, deftly avoiding population centres in even better style than Aerdart!
It should be trivial to sort out a licence to extend one bus route on each major northern corridor to the airport. Maybe 140 on N2 and 13 on Ballymun Road from the routes I know reasonably well and I'm sure there are equivalents on Malahide and Howth Roads.

markpb

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes,do you remember the Aerdart...?I used that a few times but it was never going to work as it did not pass enough houses.

The idea behind AerDart was to link the Dart and the airport, not provide an airport link from Malahide road. Not stopping mid-way to pick up more people is exactly what it should have done.

LXFlyer

backboiler wrote: »

Leo's building his wee railway, deftly avoiding population centres in even better style than Aerdart!
It should be trivial to sort out a licence to extend one bus route on each major northern corridor to the airport. Maybe 140 on N2 and 13 on Ballymun Road from the routes I know reasonably well and I'm sure there are equivalents on Malahide and Howth Roads.

Far from it - anything to do with connecting the airport has been treated by DB with kid gloves due to the amount of private operators serving it.

Certainly the DoT had an effective ban on any approval for new DB services at the airport lest private operators take a case against them.

Perhaps given the new more enlightened attitude of the NTA things may change.

I would agree that there ought to be more services going to the airport - one from each of the Finglas, Ballymun and Malahide Road/Howth Road/Clontarf areas would do the job nicely.

Dub13

markpb wrote: »

The idea behind AerDart was to link the Dart and the airport, not provide an airport link from Malahide road. Not stopping mid-way to pick up more people is exactly what it should have done.

He was never going to get enough business from just the dart transfers so should have picked a better route IMO.I am from the area and its so close to the airport yet has no public transport links,1,000s of airport workers live in the area surly this is a big market he should have been trying to tap into..?

markpb

Dub13 wrote: »

He was never going to get enough business from just the dart transfers so should have picked a better route IMO

Why is it a bad route? Aircoach carry people from Greystones, Bray, N11 and Ballsbridge to the Airport which is exactly what DART + AerDART did so there's a proven demand on the route. It has some downsides (no dedicated luggage area and having to change at HJ&D) but it should be faster than Aircoach because it doesn't have to battle traffic all the way from Bray to the airport.

AlekSmart

backboiler wrote: »

It should be trivial to sort out a licence to extend one bus route on each major northern corridor to the airport. Maybe 140 on N2 and 13 on Ballymun Road from the routes I know reasonably well and I'm sure there are equivalents on Malahide and Howth Roads.

Believe it or not,one of the options advocated by some Drivers on the 11 route was to extend it to Collinstown Aerodrome ( ).

However this was during Network Direct's negative phase,when no discussion was encouraged....how times change ?

There is still a substantial chunk of the travelling public who are comfortable with paying €1.90 for a Southside-Airport journey as opposed to the Aircoach premium rate of €8 or €9.

There are different dynamics at play here which authorities such as the NTA need to accomodate....?

backboiler

AlekSmart wrote: »

Believe it or not,one of the options advocated by some Drivers on the 11 route was to extend it to Collinstown Aerodrome ( ).

Yeah, I was thinking 11 initially but it doesn't go anywhere near Phibsborough, the most densely populated area of the corridor. Actually the 13 misses it too but at least you could get it at Whitworth Rd. or Hart's Corner. The 11 shares too much of its northern segment with the 16a route to be useful in the context I'm talking about (though your proposal would be no bad thing in itself - even if it would mean an extra 4 minutes walk for me every morning :P ).
The current 19a would probably be a better candidate for this, but then the current 19 is getting canned so there'd be a lot of people in Finglas and Glasnevin Avenue/Willow Park left with no bus to An Lár were the 19a to be redirected without other arrangements being made.

Citygirl1

qerty wrote: »

I was just conversing with the DB twitter guru. Seems they expect the Ballyfermot area changes to be implemented by the end of May. I'm not sure how reliable that estimate is considering the changes to Finglas west and south never materialised in April. However................

Hi - Does anyone have any updates as to when they are going to implement the proposed Ballyfermot changes (78A chaning to route 40)? The last update on Dublin Bus website is dated 21st October 2010!

Same question regarding Ballmun/Clondalkin?

Thanks:)

Stevek101

Citygirl1 wrote: »

Hi - Does anyone have any updates as to when they are going to implement the proposed Ballyfermot changes (78A chaning to route 40)? The last update on Dublin Bus website is dated 21st October 2010!

Same question regarding Ballmun/Clondalkin?

Thanks:)

Ballyfermot should be happening at the end of May, most likely the 29th. The Finglas changes will take place in June followed by Tallaght in July. The Malahide Road corridor will also be mostly complete by late July.

qerty

I saw notices on bus stops along Crumlin road and clogher road regarding the 121/150 merger. The map was different from the maps on the website represented both the cabra area and the 122/123/150 on the southside and showed the new 38/a/b alignment and the 120 seems to be operating to prenell square only with some trips going to ballsbridge. Shame....It would have been better, in my opinion, to extend the route to ballsbridge at all time.

AlekSmart

qerty wrote: »

I saw notices on bus stops along Crumlin road and clogher road regarding the 121/150 merger. The map was different from the maps on the website represented both the cabra area and the 122/123/150 on the southside and showed the new 38/a/b alignment and the 120 seems to be operating to prenell square only with some trips going to ballsbridge. Shame....It would have been better, in my opinion, to extend the route to ballsbridge at all time.

I have to admit to being all-at-sea on the reasoning behind this faffing about also qerty.

I'm very sure that this type of stuff directly contradicts one of the essential principles of Deloitte,the need for simplicity of route options.

The Ballsbridge-City Centre-Cabra corridor is well capable of sustaining a full-time Cabra/NCR/Dorset St 120 alignment,in fact I would suggest it's a routeing which could be marketed very effectively indeed if the resources were to allocated to it.

Perhaps there is a secret "cunning-plan" which will be unveiled in due course...such as the 4 reverting to it's original schedule....oh well... :P :P :P

qerty

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm very sure that this type of stuff directly contradicts one of the essential principles of Deloitte,the need for simplicity of route options.

I completely agree with you there. This route alignment will, undoubtedly lead to confusion, with people asking the driver "does this bus go to Ballsbridge?" and people at the 4/7 stops wondering why they haven't seen a 120 come along during the day, even though the timetable will state clearly (I HOPE) that it will be peak only.
To save confusion, time, hassle and actually improve custom (both on the 120 itself and the 4/7 due to these buses not being as packed, in theory, it makes sense to have the 120 operate to Ballsbridge (Vincents?) at all times

On a side note, Dublin bus seem to have realised that some of their proposals were completely out of tune with what people wanted, and needed, and seem to have done a partial u-turn (27b alignment for example) so to speak. I wonder if this will occur with the 140/54a merger being going through Harolds cross? Rathmines has a huge service level and people in Tallaght didn't seem to happy with the new route operating via Rathmines. Also.....I'm VERY interested to see the 76/a/b final plans. That particular route seemed to hit a nerve with may people in the Ballyfermot/Clondalkin/Tallaght areas. With DB now actually talking peoples views onboard....Will that route operate as the 76 from the square to Blanchardstown via the current routing???

This whole process is getting more and more interesting by the minute

AlekSmart

qerty wrote: »

On a side note, Dublin bus seem to have realised that some of their proposals were completely out of tune with what people wanted, and needed, and seem to have done a partial u-turn (27b alignment for example) so to speak.

This whole process is getting more and more interesting by the minute

Interesting for sure,but the downside of living in Interesting Times is the projected level of savings from the ND plan is now somewhat at issue.

Dublin Bus chose to wrap the Network Direct banner around a cost-cutting plan and thence to attempt to convince people that it was a service improvement programme......that was/is a BIG mistake.

As can be seen from the many hundreds of disgruntled posts on here,this policy has alienated far too many long-term customers and that failure needs to be recognised,admitted to and rectified.

However the times ahead remain "Interesting"

thomasj

lxflyer wrote: »

Far from it - anything to do with connecting the airport has been treated by DB with kid gloves due to the amount of private operators serving it.

Certainly the DoT had an effective ban on any approval for new DB services at the airport lest private operators take a case against them.

Perhaps given the new more enlightened attitude of the NTA things may change.

I would agree that there ought to be more services going to the airport - one from each of the Finglas, Ballymun and Malahide Road/Howth Road/Clontarf areas would do the job nicely.

how about running The 17a from howth junction dart station down the malahide road/n32 to the airport. It would link the blanchardstown/finglas/ballymun/malahide road corridors and provide a dart connection to howth and clontarf via howth junction.

The only thing would be time would have to be saved, maybe cut out the hispitals and have the 104 do that as a hospitalink