Anyone else think Ryanair right not to pay board and keep for stranded passengers?

no1beemerfan

As the title says does anyone agree? I for one do.

How would you like to be in business and when something totally out of your control means people are stranded and your business has to pay for their hotel/b&b and food? I think its crazy!!

the drifter

they should refund the cost of the canceled flights that is all....


i really hate the ryanair bashers....mr o leary might be a miserable excuse for a human being in some peoples opinions....but hes a dam good business man

SV

no1beemerfan wrote: »

As the title says does anyone agree? I for one do.

How would you like to be in business and when something totally out of your control means people are stranded and your business has to pay for their hotel/b&b and food? I think its crazy!!

Of course they're right.

It's unfortunate that this happened but it isn't any Airlines fault and they shouldn't have to be the ones to take the hit because of it.
Neither should the passengers mind but it's the fairest way..


unless they plan on going all Billy Connolly on it and suing God.

falan

No

Michael O Leary, Is that you?

ella_enchanted

I can see both sides of it.
Id hate to be stuck somewhere, running out of money and starting to panic about where to sleep with no help from the people that have left me stranded.
But also, I would hate to be the company trying to pay for all those who are stranded as there would be some people who would take it for all it was worth.

They could however, try and help in other ways.
Helping people find other ways of getting home if at all possible.

Joey the lips

No

how ya michael.... still got the taxi

Sykk

People should just be refunded their flights. That's it.

MaybeLogic

I've been stranded since in Spain since last week.
Although I didn't fly with Ryanair, I do remember on booking my flight the travel agent asking me if I wanted to buy something called holiday insurance, to which I politely declined.
Not the airlines fault.

no1beemerfan

falan wrote: »

Michael O Leary, Is that you?

Wish it was!!

AnonoBoy

Yeah, surely people have holiday insurance, right?

Does that cover this sort of volcanic shenanigans?

MaybeLogic

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Yeah, surely people have holiday insurance, right?

Does that cover this sort of volcanic shenanigans?

'Acts of the Gods' not covered.

coconut5

Wasn't someone saying that some travel insurers are refusing to cover the cost of the extra nights in hotels and food and stuff, because the volcanic ash preventing flight is not considered 'adverse weather conditions.'

Fizman

Send God/baby Jesus the bill?

Joey the lips

No

MaybeLogic wrote: »

'Acts of the Gods' not covered.

Exactly.... its available on multi trips site to see. So quite honestly unless your looked after by the airline you are fooked....

I can understand them not looking after you if your only flying out but stranded i think they should. Even over an excess

ella_enchanted

If only everyone had Peter Griffins Volcano Insurance now...

AnonoBoy

MaybeLogic wrote: »

'Acts of the Gods' not covered.

Balls to that.

Chiorino

They are right not to pay. I would'nt expect anything from Ryanair even at the best of times. Great laugh hearing the Ryanair rep backtrack on their position on the Last Word yesterday evening.

Biggins

No

EU law states that flight carriers HAVE to provide food and accommodation for passengers they have delayed.
There is no if's or but's about this any more. Its the law. Its a recent law that was brought in within the last few months.

This was pointed out yet again on the Monday night Pat Kenny "Front Line" show
(view here: http://www.rte.ie/news/thefrontline/)

Papa_Lazarou

Surely there will be a limit put to how much people can claim back back per day of delay becuase im sure some people booked into some very costly room(not all by choice) and by now id say a lot of people have spent a lot more on extra accom and food than their flights are actually worth.

To be honest i don't think the airlines should have to pay full whack on the accom and food--maybe a 50/50 program. If the insurance companies can get away with giving out nothing then i don't see why airlines who straight away said they would provide refunds on flights or re-schedule should get hit so hard.

Saganist

No

Listen, if your flight is cancelled then its the airlines responsibility under EU law to accommodate you and provide you with meals etc.

Just because this thing has been going on for nearly a week doesn't change the law.

Did Ryainair accommodate those passengers in the past when a flight was cancelled ? Of course they did. Why should it change now ? Just because the cost is gonna put a large dent in their profits ?

There are hundreds if not thousands of people who are totally skint now because of what has happened, they are entitled to their money back from the airline. If Ryanair want to seek their own compensation from this then let them do it, they shouldn't however try and pass the cost of it back to the consumer like they ALWAYS do.

Ryanair make enough money, they should compensate each and every one of their passengers that have been stranded abroad.

Sure they could have the cost back in no time when they introduce the 1eur levy to have a piss on a flight..

Jeanious

Biggins wrote: »

EU law states that flight carriers HAVE to provide food and accommodation for passengers they have delayed.
There is no if's or but's about this any more. Its the law. Its a recent law that was brought in within the last few months.

This was pointed out yet again on the Monday night Pat Kenny "Front Line" show
(view here: http://www.rte.ie/news/thefrontline/)

I caught a bit of this alright but didnt see the end. How are Ryanair or other airlines actually gettin away with not paying this?

no1beemerfan

Biggins wrote: »

...... Its the law....

But do you think its fair? Think about it as if it was your business being asked to pay these bills....it'll run to millions.

Fair enough if it was caused by the party being asked to pay for keep/board but this was not.

scottyboy

No

As Biggins says, if you wish to operate an airline the EU, you must comply with the regulations governing your industry. If one company decides that this is not for them then they can cease trading within this industry or increase their front end charges to insure themselves against these eventualities. Sadly for Mr O'Leary, ignoring these regs is not that simple.

Regulations are there for a reason, if not followed then all manner of issues can arise (ref: Irish banking sector)

Degag

Insurance companies should cover the cost.

After the bankers and the politicians, they are the biggest scammers in this country.

rossie1977

Saganist wrote: »

Did Ryainair accommodate those passengers in the past when a flight was cancelled ? Of course they did. Why should it change now ? Just because the cost is gonna put a large dent in their profits ?

did they?? well i have been stuck twice in airports before due to fog (once with ryanair) and flights cancelled and all i got was my flight rebooked to the next day, accommodation and food i had to pay for, i got nothing from the airlines (and yes we asked)

the problem is what if you say you paid 5 euro for your flight to malaga and then you stay in the ritz or some stupidly expensive hotel, do you expect ryanair or whoever to pay for that?? where do you draw the line, would passengers all be happy if ryanair or whoever put everyone up in a 48 bunk bed dorm room in some ymca

Saganist

No

no1beemerfan wrote: »

But do you think its fair? Think about it as if it was your business being asked to pay these bills....it'll run to millions.

Fair enough if it was caused by the party being asked to pay for keep/board but this was not.

Since when has "fair" been the issue ? Do you think its "fair" to pay over 60Eur to check in a feckin bag ? Of coure it isn't but we still do it..

Do you think when Ryanair introduce a levy on having a piss on a flight that that would be fair ?

It has nothing to do with it being fair or not fair. IT'S THE LAW !!!

PeakOutput

Joey the lips wrote: »

Exactly.... its available on multi trips site to see. So quite honestly unless your looked after by the airline you are fooked....

I can understand them not looking after you if your only flying out but stranded i think they should. Even over an excess

why? how is does liability fall on them at all? a third party agency is stopping them flying, it has nothing to do with them

Biggins wrote: »

EU law states that flight carriers HAVE to provide food and accommodation for passengers they have delayed.
There is no if's or but's about this any more. Its the law. Its a recent law that was brought in within the last few months.

This was pointed out yet again on the Monday night Pat Kenny "Front Line" show
(view here: http://www.rte.ie/news/thefrontline/)

thats correct but oleary was just on the news saying he will be fighting that in court if necessary stating (quite rightly) that the law was not created for this type of situation

also you say yourself they have to compensate for passengers they have delayed. in this case ryanair hasnt delayed anyone the volcano and the various aviation authorities have

Saganist wrote: »

Did Ryainair accommodate those passengers in the past when a flight was cancelled ? Of course they did. Why should it change now ? Just because the cost is gonna put a large dent in their profits ?

There are hundreds if not thousands of people who are totally skint now because of what has happened, they are entitled to their money back from the airline.

if there is a delay caused by ryanair then of course they should pay this isnt and therefore they shouldnt. the passengers are being given the money for their flight back

Papa_Lazarou

Saganist wrote: »

Listen, if your flight is cancelled then its the airlines responsibility under EU law to accommodate you and provide you with meals etc.
Just because the cost is gonna put a large dent in their profits ?

I think large ain't the right word to describe the level of money they will have to pay out. You have to think about all the staff they had to pay while most weren't actually working and all their accom and food bills,the cost of re-shuffling all their aircraft to service where their passangers actually are situated.
Then the face that most people will have spent more on accomodation and food that the price they payed for their flights. Hopefully its finished now but fi ti hasn't then it has the potential to cripple many airline companies.

Ryanair make enough money, they should compensate each and every one of their passengers that have been stranded abroad

I think you'll find that Ryanair were just going to break even this year sorry but they weren't going to have any huge profits this year. Yes refund them the flights but usually when passangers are stranded the airline will find accomodation for them,but in this siuation people found their own which means prices are gonna vary hugely with some people paying for very expensive rooms.

Saganist

No

rossie1977 wrote: »

did they?? well i have been stuck twice in airports before due to fog (once with ryanair) and flights cancelled and all i got was my flight rebooked to the next day, accommodation and food i had to pay for, i got nothing from the airlines (and yes we asked)

the problem is what if you say you paid 5 euro for your flight to malaga and then you stay in the ritz or some stupidly expensive hotel, do you expect ryanair or whoever to pay for that??

No I don't expect them for you to stay in the Ritz, its up to the airline to accommodate you in their choice of hotel. If the airlne isn't up to speed with that then thats their fault not yours.

Regarding your cancelled flights. You obviously didn't know your rights and the info you where given was bull****.. That, again, is your fault !

When you arrive at check in and your bag is 1kg overweight. Whos fault is that ? Who has to pay the extra ?

The airlines ( esp. Ryanair ) love to "catch" you with small print regulations, so, just because now the shoe is on the other foot they think they can turn around to the ordinary passenger and say, f you, we're not paying ?

I DON'T THINK SO !

Papa_Lazarou

Saganist wrote: »

Since when has "fair" been the issue ? Do you think its "fair" to pay over 60Eur to check in a feckin bag ? Of coure it isn't but we still do it..

Do you think when Ryanair introduce a levy on having a piss on a flight that that would be fair ?

It has nothing to do with it being fair or not fair. IT'S THE LAW !!!

Do you think its fair that they after all the charges still provide the cheapest flights probably anywhere in Europe and all people still seem to do is complain. Fair enough the service can sometimes be sub-par but at the price people pay to fly thousands of miles you are getting what you pay for.

Biggins

No

no1beemerfan wrote: »

But do you think its fair? Think about it as if it was your business being asked to pay these bills....it'll run to millions.
Fair enough if it was caused by the party being asked to pay for keep/board but this was not.

Its a tough situation.
In most cases, delays or cancellations are caused by the airlines themselves by their own actions (or lack of them).
If one was to weight up those incidents versus the ones caused by "acts of god", I suspect the numbers of one will far outweigh the other.
Keeping this in mind then, if you run a business that has the EU laws backing you to operate and gives you legal protection to do so fairly (amid competition for example), you must also accept some of its other laws that the EU has brought in.
Its a two faced coin (or double edged sword) so to speak.

I can understand the much smaller flight companies finding themselves in difficulty over something they couldn't have predicted.
They are in a tough situation.
As for Ryanair that often uses the law to its own gain and maximise profits ahead of others and sometimes at passengers expense/inconvenience - they must accept once again the laws they don't like as well as the ones they do.

If they don't like that present situation, they should change business.

Saganist

No

rossie1977 wrote: »

did they?? well i have been stuck twice in airports before due to fog (once with ryanair) and flights cancelled and all i got was my flight rebooked to the next day, accommodation and food i had to pay for, i got nothing from the airlines (and yes we asked)

the problem is what if you say you paid 5 euro for your flight to malaga and then you stay in the ritz or some stupidly expensive hotel, do you expect ryanair or whoever to pay for that?? where do you draw the line, would passengers all be happy if ryanair or whoever put everyone up in a 48 bunk bed dorm room in some ymca

No I don't expect them for you to stay in the Ritz, its up to the airline to accommodate you in their choice of hotel. If the airlne isn't up to speed with that then thats their fault not yours.

Regarding your cancelled flights. You obviously didn't know your rights and the info you where given was bull****.. That, again, is your fault !

When you arrive at check in and your bag is 1kg overweight. Whos fault is that ? Who has to pay the extra ?

The airlines ( esp. Ryanair ) love to "catch" you with small print regulations, so, just because now the shoe is on the other foot they think they can turn around to the ordinary passenger and say, f you, we're not paying ?

I DON'T THINK SO !

Also, when this whole thing started Ryanair put a link to the EU regulation of Duty of Care on THEIR website explaining the rights each stranded person abroad has. Now they want to go back on that ?

matrim

Biggins wrote: »

EU law states that flight carriers HAVE to provide food and accommodation for passengers they have delayed.
There is no if's or but's about this any more. Its the law. Its a recent law that was brought in within the last few months.

This was pointed out yet again on the Monday night Pat Kenny "Front Line" show
(view here: http://www.rte.ie/news/thefrontline/)

I thought that that law has a clause for exceptional circumstances, which allows the airline to not have to pay accommodation and food. I'd say the Ash cloud could count as an exceptional circumstance

Stubs

I can't see any reason why Ryanair or any other ariline for that matter should have to pay for the accomodation and food for stranded passengers. It's for reason's totally out of there hands. Refund the cost of the flight or rearange an alternative should be their only responsibility. Even the insurance companies aren't paying out, claiming its an act of good.

It's just typical of people looking for the handouts and freebies. I no its not an ideal situation and has caused huge difficulties due different personal circumstances. But seriously thats life. Build a bridge.

PeakOutput

Saganist wrote: »

I DON'T THINK SO !

id be very suprised if the regulations were not changed as a result of this and if the airlines band together to fight id be very suprised if they have to pay anything

it is absolutely a case of fairness it is not fair to expect these companies to pay out this amount of money threw no fault of their own

i do think insurance companies should pay and they were saying that some policies will cover this eventuallity but not the basic ones

as o'leary said himself

if a taxi driver cant take you home because of a crash on the road should he have to put you up in his house and feed you for the night?

Saganist

No

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

.




I think you'll find that Ryanair were just going to break even this year sorry but they weren't going to have any huge profits this year. Yes refund them the flights but usually when passangers are stranded the airline will find accomodation for them,but in this siuation people found their own which means prices are gonna vary hugely with some people paying for very expensive rooms.

Will Ryanair paying this compensation put them out of business ?

No, so they should pay !

Trashbat

No

Biggins wrote: »

EU law states that flight carriers HAVE to provide food and accommodation for passengers they have delayed.

This thing is, if they have not directly caused the delay, does that make them liable?

I get the impression that in some cases it was the Airport authority that caused the delay by closing the Airport themselves, meaning it is not a direct result of the Carrier's policy or actions.

mickoneill30

Saganist wrote: »

Will Ryanair paying this compensation put them out of business ?

No, so they should pay !

Can you quote how much it will cost (roughly) and how much money they have please (as you have all the answers).

rossie1977

Saganist wrote: »

No I don't expect them for you to stay in the Ritz, its up to the airline to accommodate you in their choice of hotel. If the airlne isn't up to speed with that then thats their fault not yours.

Regarding your cancelled flights. You obviously didn't know your rights and the info you where given was bull****.. That, again, is your fault !

show me this law

hotel of their choice :eek: that could be a cowshed or a hostel or some motel in the middle of a ghetto, aer lingus used to do hotel/packages to new york (dont know if they still do) one of their hotels of choice was the freaking carter the worst hotel in manhattan

PeakOutput

Biggins wrote: »

Its a tough situation.
In most cases, delays or cancellations are caused by the airlines themselves by their own actions (or lack of them).
If one was to weight up those incidents versus the ones caused by "acts of god", I suspect the numbers of one will far outweigh the other.
Keeping this in mind then, if you run a business that has the EU laws backing you to operate and gives you legal protection to do so fairly (amid competition for example), you must also accept some of its other laws that the EU has brought in.
Its a two faced coin (or double edged sword) so to speak.

I can understand the much smaller flight companies finding themselves in difficulty over something they couldn't have predicted.
They are in a tough situation.
As for Ryanair that often uses the law to its own gain and maximise profits ahead of others and sometimes at passengers expense/inconvenience - they must accept once again the laws they don't like as well as the ones they do.

If they don't like that present situation, they should change business.

the eu is the sum of its countries

they make the laws

it is also eu organisations that are forcing these companies to cease operation therefore inconveniencing their customers. is it fair for the eu to say we know we are the first link in the chain(after the volcano) causing all you guys to be stuck on the ground but we are still going to make you pay for it.


its like the goverment closing all roads and public transport but firing any public servant who cant make it to work

Biggins

No

matrim wrote: »

I thought that that law has a clause for exceptional circumstances, which allows the airline to not have to pay accommodation and food. I'd say the Ash cloud could count as an exceptional circumstance

There is none that I have heard of (but open to be wrong).
Who would get to define on the day/hour whats an exceptional circumstance anyway?
The fact is, if the flight companies want to continue to operate within the areas that are currently covered by legal statutes already laid down, they have to abide by them. Not just use the ones they like and disregard the ones they don't.

There are ways to Wright-off some of their losses in vat/tax reduction payments to various governments anyway. The bigger companies will know how to do this more so and indeed sometimes have it down to a fine art.
Its the smaller ones that are finding it tough to survive that I have more sympathy for.
Ryanair and Brit' Airways, etc can absorb the intermediate loss of revenue but you can be sure, they will (at all our expense) find a way to claw it back eventually.

no1beemerfan

Saganist wrote: »

Since when has "fair" been the issue ? Do you think its "fair" to pay over 60Eur to check in a feckin bag ? Of coure it isn't but we still do it..

Do you think when Ryanair introduce a levy on having a piss on a flight that that would be fair ?

It has nothing to do with it being fair or not fair. IT'S THE LAW !!!

You can avoid the charges with ryanair if you want to. And when did they start charging €60 to check in a bag???

rossie1977

Trashbat wrote: »

This thing is, if they have not directly caused the delay, does that make them liable?

I get the impression that in some cases it was the Airport authority that caused the delay by closing the Airport themselves, meaning it is not a direct result of the Carrier's policy or actions.

exactly its not ryanair or any of the airlines fault, they didn't delay anything, the airports and aviation authorities did

sock puppet

Saganist wrote: »

Will Ryanair paying this compensation put them out of business ?

No, so they should pay !

Think beyond Ryanair. What about all the airlines that are losing money? It's been estimated that this whole incident has cost airlines $1.7 billion. And you can't say that airlines in general are highly profitable.

Biggins

No

Trashbat wrote: »

This thing is, if they have not directly caused the delay, does that make them liable?

I get the impression that in some cases it was the Airport authority that caused the delay by closing the Airport themselves, meaning it is not a direct result of the Carrier's policy or actions.

In the case of a delay, there is specific EU legal timeliness already drawn up that state what has to be covered and how much paid out to the passanger in ration to the time length of the delay.

bernard0368

The law is the law.
It may hurt ryanair, but they should take the bad with the good.
I am sure they and the other airlines all had their say when this law was been drafted.
What will pobably happen here is if you accept the cost of the flight as compensation, you will have given up your right to any further claim. The more people that accept the cost of the flight the more Ryanair saves.

no1beemerfan

Saganist wrote: »

Will Ryanair paying this compensation put them out of business ?

No, so they should pay !

I wouldn't like you in charge of my business.....

Saganist

No

rossie1977 wrote: »

show me this law

hotel of their choice :eek: that could be a cowshed or a hostel or some motel in the middle of a ghetto, aer lingus used to do hotel/packages to new york (dont know if they still do) one of their hotels of choice was the freaking carter the worst hotel in manhattan

http://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/EU261_EN.pdf

Duty of Care. Its on their website and all the stranded passengers abroad read this.

What would you think after reading this ?

3. RIGHT TO CARE
If you are involuntarily denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed by more than 2 hours, we will offer you, free of charge:
a) meals and refreshment vouchers in reasonable relation to the waiting time, as long as it will not further delay the departure of the aircraft
b) two telephone calls, telex or fax messages or e-mails;
c) hotel accommodation in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or where a stay additional to that intended by you becomes necessary;
d) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
If your flight is delayed as specified under ‘Flight Delays’ above or your elect to be re-routed to your final destination at the earliest opportunity as a result of a flight cancellation, we will offer you items (a) and (b) above. If the new time of departure is reasonably expected as a result of the delay or your being re-routed following a cancellation to at least the day after the original time of departure, we will also offer you items (c) and (d) above. Where it is not feasible for Ryanair to arrange the care set out above, Ryanair will reimburse you for reasonable receipted expenses upon application to: Ryanair Compensation Department, Dublin Airport, Co. Dublin, Ireland.

rossie1977

Biggins wrote: »

In the case of a delay, there is specific EU legal timeliness already drawn up that state what has to be covered and how much paid out to the passanger in ration to the time length of the delay.

yes when the airlines themselves are at fault for said delay, however in this case all the airlines were ready to go but the airport(s) is/are shut, thus surely absolving the airlines from any fault

Saganist

No

no1beemerfan wrote: »

You can avoid the charges with ryanair if you want to. And when did they start charging €60 to check in a bag???

Return flight cost me 60Eur to check in one bag !

RoadKillTs

No

I think you'll find that Ryanair were just going to break even this year sorry but they weren't going to have any huge profits this year.

Estimated profit of 330 million actually. Doing quite well.

As for the OP's question no I don't think its fair but them are the rules and Ryanair are well aware of them.