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Why is being fat/obese socially acceptable?
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whiteman19 wrote: »would it be just that we're now more susceptible to weight gain with so much food now available to people? that our genetics isn't prepared to handle so much food?
In a nutshell for some people yes, excess food is still the problem but it explains why some can eat all they want and be as skinny as a rake and others so much as look at a BLT and put on a pound!
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dellas1979 wrote: »But some people are prone to put on weight, no matter what they eat..
For people who don't really understand what they're talking about it's more convenient to ignore that exact point though
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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Depending on the particular environment. So an ice age hunter would have more limited diet options. That said the Inuit today have a very varied diet in a similar environment. Plus part of the success of us as a species is our dietary flexibility(which is part of our issue today though). We can survive on many different food sources. One dies out or the climate changes and we can go for novel foods(and genetically adapt quite quickly too). But from what Ive read about neolithic man yes they had a good diet. There are some good books out there on the subject.khrystyna100 wrote: »Although I have heard that the scarcity of food thing is a myth and that prehistoric man actually ate very well?
Hunter gatherers today have a very good diet. Much more varied than the average westerner, with better omega 6/3 ratios, better quality meats and seasonal fruit and veg. Very little sugar, almost no veggie oils(except from seeds). While their longevity stats look worse than ours, the results are skewed by levels of childhood mortality. The diseases they're prone to are different. Obesity is pretty much unknown, as is type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis and much lower rates of cardiovascular disease. Basically every western condition you account for they have less(including some interesting but incomplete studies showing much lower prevalence of depression). If they start eating more western diets this trend reverses. Archaelogists can tell you that in areas where hunter gatherers and early farmers overlap, you can spot the farmers. They're smaller, less robust and die younger.
The problem with following their diet wholesale is that we can have different gene's going on. "Farmer genes" that have evolved in the last 10,000 years. EG Most "cavemen" are lactose and gluten intolerant. But we could take a fair few leaves from their book of living. Eat less. Much less crap. More good protein, more organ meats(except liver I gather), more fish, more veg and fruit in season, more nuts etc. Good protein is harder for us to get. Our modern domesticated cattle are a far cry from antelope meat. Much higher in fat for a start.
Plus ancient man hunted the food, which is very good exercise. Much better than "gym" exercise IMHO. Its social and with a purpose. I once saw a programme where an american anthropologist was hanging out with Kalahari bushmen. He went on an antelope hunt with a guy who was in his late 40's and the american lad couldnt keep up with the older mans stop start pursuit and he was 15 years younger and a keen marathon runner. Native american braves used to catch horses by running them down until the horse was exhausted. :eek:
Even among farmer cultures look at the Greeks or Romans. A roman expected to live in good health to 70. Even Jesus a 1st century Jew of peasant stock gave the average lifespan of "3 score and 10". Contrary to very popular belief these people didnt peg it at 25. The speed a roman legion could march and then fight at the end of that march was very impressive(something like 40 miles a day). Alexander and his mates walked to India kicking arse along the way. The Zulu nations of Africa, farmers and hunters were famed for their fitness. They could cover ground at incredible rates and fight hand to hand battles at the end of it. They seem to have kept the best of the caveman and the farmers and were very healthy accordingly. So maybe their example is the better one to follow. The Mediterranean diet is well regarded as one of the best so we dont have to go making flint handaxes just yet.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Depending on the particular environment. So an ice age hunter would have more limited diet options. That said the Inuit today have a very varied diet in a similar environment. Plus part of the success of us as a species is our dietary flexibility(which is part of our issue today though). We can survive on many different food sources. One dies out or the climate changes and we can go for novel foods(and genetically adapt quite quickly too). But from what Ive read about neolithic man yes they had a good diet. There are some good books out there on the subject.
Hunter gatherers today have a very good diet. Much more varied than the average westerner, with better omega 6/3 ratios, better quality meats and seasonal fruit and veg. Very little sugar, almost no veggie oils(except from seeds). While their longevity stats look worse than ours, the results are skewed by levels of childhood mortality. The diseases they're prone to are different. Obesity is pretty much unknown, as is type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis and much lower rates of cardiovascular disease. Basically every western condition you account for they have less(including some interesting but incomplete studies showing much lower prevalence of depression). If they start eating more western diets this trend reverses. Archaelogists can tell you that in areas where hunter gatherers and early farmers overlap, you can spot the farmers. They're smaller, less robust and die younger.
The problem with following their diet wholesale is that we can have different gene's going on. "Farmer genes" that have evolved in the last 10,000 years. EG Most "cavemen" are lactose and gluten intolerant. But we could take a fair few leaves from their book of living. Eat less. Much less crap. More good protein, more organ meats(except liver I gather), more fish, more veg and fruit in season, more nuts etc. Good protein is harder for us to get. Our modern domesticated cattle are a far cry from antelope meat. Much higher in fat for a start.
Plus ancient man hunted the food, which is very good exercise. Much better than "gym" exercise IMHO. Its social and with a purpose. I once saw a programme where an american anthropologist was hanging out with Kalahari bushmen. He went on an antelope hunt with a guy who was in his late 40's and the american lad couldnt keep up with the older mans stop start pursuit and he was 15 years younger and a keen marathon runner. Native american braves used to catch horses by running them down until the horse was exhausted. :eek:
Even among farmer cultures look at the Greeks or Romans. A roman expected to live in good health to 70. Even Jesus a 1st century Jew of peasant stock gave the average lifespan of "3 score and 10". Contrary to very popular belief these people didnt peg it at 25. The speed a roman legion could march and then fight at the end of that march was very impressive(something like 40 miles a day). Alexander and his mates walked to India kicking arse along the way. The Zulu nations of Africa, farmers and hunters were famed for their fitness. They could cover ground at incredible rates and fight hand to hand battles at the end of it. They seem to have kept the best of the caveman and the farmers and were very healthy accordingly. So maybe their example is the better one to follow. The Mediterranean diet is well regarded as one of the best so we dont have to go making flint handaxes just yet.
Nice post thanks!
I'm actually planning on ordering the plaeo diet and a few other anthro books for myself this summer when I have time to read really books again can't wait! 0 -
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opinion guy wrote: »Aside: Sorry the way genetics are usually taught/understood is one of my pet hates.
Ya theres a lot to it alright, once you start getting into it it's easy to see how it can be very easily misunderstood or miscontrued. I really wish I'd done genetics as my undergrad sometimes its so interesting
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khrystyna100 wrote: »Ya theres a lot to it alright, once you start getting into it it's easy to see how it can be very easily misunderstood or miscontrued. I really wish I'd done genetics as my undergrad sometimes its so interesting
Oh to be honest I think sometimes its deliberately misconstrued....but thats a thread for another day:D Yeah its is quite fascinating - especially the emerging stuff like epigenetics (DNA methylation etc)no my friend it was a figure of speech but i went through it all so basically i could write two books on it and damn can i tell you it is not for the faint of heart. people don't realise how bad it can be if your teeth are not looked after and the worst part of it all is if you let them go below the gum well thats a major operation there. so get those teeth in order. i don't want to frighten anyone but it's a bad day when you have to get that s*it done.
Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification zenno 0 -
Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification zenno
no problem
well it looks like theres going to be alot of people on salad sambo's for the next week or two after reading this. well good luck to any of you that decide to look after yourselves a bit better it's damn tough getting out of the main eating habbits but if you have the willpower you will accomplish it easily and don't fall for the munchies what ever you do don't fall for that. be strict with your thinking and all will go well. maybe you already have lost a couple of pounds from reading these posts so thats a bonus0 -
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opinion guy wrote: »Well if nothing else good comes from this thread, its prompted me to cook something halfway health rather than get a take away like I wanted to :P
Ha not me I had chips! 0 -
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Even among farmer cultures look at the Greeks or Romans. A roman expected to live in good health to 70. Even Jesus a 1st century Jew of peasant stock gave the average lifespan of "3 score and 10". Contrary to very popular belief these people didnt peg it at 25. The speed a roman legion could march and then fight at the end of that march was very impressive(something like 40 miles a day). Alexander and his mates walked to India kicking arse along the way. The Zulu nations of Africa, farmers and hunters were famed for their fitness. They could cover ground at incredible rates and fight hand to hand battles at the end of it. They seem to have kept the best of the caveman and the farmers and were very healthy accordingly. So maybe their example is the better one to follow. The Mediterranean diet is well regarded as one of the best so we dont have to go making flint handaxes just yet.
I agree with some of what you said...but have a few issues! Yes the first two are on the pedantic side, and sorry for the gross generalizations!
First off, life expectancy in Ancient Rome was not 70 on average. Many historians place it around 30-40. Some Emperors lived until they were 60-70, but that is far outweighed by people dying young due to such a hard slog of a life. Gym exercise is much better for you than slogging away on a farm or building in ancient Rome. Chronic pain would be one downside.
The Romans and Alexander may have won wars, but they spent a huge amount of time doing so. Long periods of rest in the winter were a regular feature. They didn't just walk there, kick ass and move on (by and large anyway). Plus they were likely to be taking on less advanced societies or cities under siege etc. Massive defeats for the Romans at Cannae or the Teutoburg disaster show that taking on rested opponents is not a good strategy.
The zulus and the Mediterranean diet have much to admire, but I think we should incorporate them into our lifestyles. People that regularly use the gym and use it sensibly, are going to be in better nick than your typical Zulu or caveman. A fit, healthy person of today is much healthier than any other in history.0 -
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