Airtricity 11 vs Man. Utd - **MOD NOTE POST 457**

major bill

Reganio 2 wrote: »

How many of these die hard LOI supporters will also say they support Celtic as well. I would say a lot of them. But hypocritical as well don't you think.

how is that hypocritical??

my point is and il give an example i was in old trafford when england won the rugby world cup and the crowd were asked to give a standing ovation and you got the odd irish spectator saying fcuk that, its daft

apoch632

major bill wrote: »

in the 50's and 60's there was big LOI support aswell wasnt till the 70's when the English clubs got alot more attention. could be also to do with emigration to england by a lot of irish in that era but i still dont agree with the irish link. i support liverpool but i cant relate to a scouser born and bread in that city and i end up just feeling like a whopper at the games in anfield.

From what I remember reading of who stole our game (It was a while ago so forgive me if this is wrong) the drop on attendance had already started at that stage. Maybe not as drastic as it is now but certainly on its way there.

apoch632

major bill wrote: »

how is that hypocritical??

my point is and il give an example i was in old trafford when england won the rugby world cup and the crowd were asked to give a standing ovation and you got the odd irish spectator saying fcuk that, its daft

Given that its the North West of England and Rugby League would be dominant form there you probably had a good few english saying that too

OPENROAD

murpho999 wrote: »

Proves my point that supporting an English club does not make you an England supporter.

Always want Gerrard to do well for Liverpool but would never want to see England win a World Cup.

Have to say I really don't get that, but thats just me, but the whole Gerrard/Rooney, not world class in the summer and suddenly world class now is Plenty of support for the "pundits that tell it like it is " during the summer, look at the difference during the CL campaign.

murpho999

OPENROAD wrote: »

Agree but I still don't view that as a link as such, Arsenal are still an English club.

So what if they are......what is the issue with that?

Fact is that thanks to always having English TV & Media here that English football gets a lot of coverage, has a higher profile and is of a higher standard than Irish club football.

People like success, sort of like how more people watch Ireland games when they have qualified for a World Cup. Then people who never watch Ireland play in qualifiers/friendlies suddenly watch Ireland. Is that wrong?

frantic190

murpho999 wrote: »

Arsenal would have gained a lot of Irish supporters in the 70's when Jennings, O'Leary, Brady and Stapleton were there.

I wouldn't support Arsenal because of that, don't get why anyone would. The reason I support them because they were my local club for 3 years. But I don't have a problem with people supporting foreign teams, but I hate the know it all but know **** alls who spout on about the LOI when they know nothing about it.

major bill

apoch632 wrote: »

From what I remember reading of who stole our game (It was a while ago so forgive me if this is wrong) the drop on attendance had already started at that stage. Maybe not as drastic as it is now but certainly on its way there.

yea i read the book late 60's early 70's when the english game really took off in ireland television had a big impact on irish football.

OPENROAD

murpho999 wrote: »

So what if they are......what is the issue with that?

Fact is that thanks to always having English TV & Media here that English football gets a lot of coverage, has a higher profile and is of a higher standard than Irish club football.

None whatsoever, think you are taking me up wrong, some people will justify their support for an English club by suggesting their is some sort of Irish link to that club which is not the case.

Agree with your second paragraph.

Reganio 2

major bill wrote: »

how is that hypocritical??

my point is and il give an example i was in old trafford when england won the rugby world cup and the crowd were asked to give a standing ovation and you got the odd irish spectator saying fcuk that, its daft

Personnally I would stand up and applaud them (Not that I would ever be in OT but you get my point) that's a great achievement. But the point is the LOI fans about English football team supporters tar with the same brush and so do the English supporting fans with LOI. But not all are like that.

I don't support the Irish National Team, I am not patriotic I guess but I don't support them cause the FAI are muppets and are hated up and down the country but people still pay extortinate fee's that go straight into their hands. Its like the United fans protesting at Glazer's sitting in their United jerseys in their 60 quid seat and a 5 quid green and gold scarf.. Yeah that's gonna hurt them.

Sorry went off on a tangent. But my point is, the team closest to me would be Sporting Fingal. I know their youth goalkeeper but that's it, I don't know the team, I know nothing about them I have no interest in how they do, but I should go see them cause its the right thing to do?

I go watch my local team every week (By local I mean the team across the road) playing the parks around the place, why don't you do that? They should have more affiliation to you, you don't have to pay either and you get a good friendship with the lads, go for pints with the pints with the lads. Am I a better supporter than LOI lads now?

frantic190

murpho999 wrote: »

Fact is that thanks to always having English TV & Media here that English football gets a lot of coverage, has a higher profile and is of a higher standard than Irish club football.

Completely agree there, can't argue with that.

Het-Field

I recall seeing National League Selections beat teams like IFK Gotenborg (with 6 players from the Swedish team wich came 4th in the 1994 World Cup) and Seville in the past. Tonight's performance was a farce. Joseph Ndo was the only player which stuck out as having any real ability and forsight in playing the game of Association Football. Never before have a National Leage team/selection been shown up as badly as the lads tonight.

apoch632

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Its like the United fans protesting at Glazer's sitting in their United jerseys in their 60 quid seat and a 5 quid green and gold scarf.. Yeah that's gonna hurt them.

Season Tickets and Shirts were bought July last year. The anti glazer protests didn't start until January when the bond prospectus came out. The money was paid for the season tickets anyway. Boycotting wasn't going to have an effect other than visual last season. And I would argue the G+G had more of an impact visually that scattered empty seats would have

Also the supporters groups have tried just simply calling for boycotts before and it failed miserably. A lot of the better organizers in the United fan movement were also lost with FC United setting up. The G+G was only ever a way of building awareness. For the most part its worked

They have struggled to sell season tickets this year and anyone who wanted one could have bought one so its along with a recession is at least having some effect.

major bill

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Personnally I would stand up and applaud them (Not that I would ever be in OT but you get my point) that's a great achievement. But the point is the LOI fans about English football team supporters tar with the same brush and so do the English supporting fans with LOI. But not all are like that.

I don't support the Irish National Team, I am not patriotic I guess but I don't support them cause the FAI are muppets and are hated up and down the country but people still pay extortinate fee's that go straight into their hands. Its like the United fans protesting at Glazer's sitting in their United jerseys in their 60 quid seat and a 5 quid green and gold scarf.. Yeah that's gonna hurt them.

Sorry went off on a tangent. But my point is, the team closest to me would be Sporting Fingal. I know their youth goalkeeper but that's it, I don't know the team, I know nothing about them I have no interest in how they do, but I should go see them cause its the right thing to do?

I go watch my local team every week (By local I mean the team across the road) playing the parks around the place, why don't you do that? They should have more affiliation to you, you don't have to pay either and you get a good friendship with the lads, go for pints with the pints with the lads. Am I a better supporter than LOI lads now?

i think this thread has sent out a lot of mixed signals to people, i hate the LOI ''we are better than you cos we support our local team'' brigade just as much as the ''LOI is ****e i seen one game on the telly'' brigade, nobody should be forced to go watch their local team or support irish football loads of people in this country come from an area unrepersented in the LOI.sporting fingal are only a new team so i shouldnt think u would have any connection with them whatsoever.
its quite fustrating knowing the league has a lot of potential as football is a very popular sport in ireland but year after year we lose good young players to english clubs for pittance as the clubs are in so much dire conditions finacially due to low crowds and ridiculous wages that they have to accept these offers.its a vicious cycle and its not fair to blame people for not going but its a good night out especially when your in a group of 20 30 lads this is what makes me go not the football to an extent.

Mr.Nice Guy

OPENROAD wrote:

Have to agree with you zero link imo.

Of course there is an Irish link. If a star comes along then people are going to want to see them. You can guarantee many Welsh United fans would cite the impact of Giggs in the nineties as a reason for supporting them. Likewise many United fans would cite Keane and Irwin being stars at United as a reason for following them, or Villa fans who would say McGrath.

It goes back to the argument about the MLS and how they really need some home-grown stars to help promote the game there.

Really, why would Irish fans want to watch average at best talents when the best young Irish guys are plying their trade in England? It's not rocket science. The 'true' Irish chaps on here might not like it but most people watch sport to be entertained and find looking out for the top Irish talents abroad, and on the national team, sufficient rather than watching LOI standard football.

You want more gates? Get more stars. Find a way to stop the exodus of top talent overseas. The best Irish players are in England, and the ones that aren't picked remain here, and LOI fans wonder why there is little interest.

Frankly this whole 'I'm better and more Irish than you' bollocks is about as productive or useful as some Irish language enthusiast in Gweedore telling me they're more Irish than me because they can speak Gaelic. If you want to promote Irish sport, Irish language etc. then look at the root cause of the problem and stop the pitiful slagging. Both issues incidentally are caused by external influences across the Irish sea. You can look to try and come up with solutions and promote either/both or hit out at the ordinary folks who just want to enjoy their free time. It seems like the current attitude of most LOI fans is the latter.

Of course I'm wasting my time pointing this out as many don't want to know so I'll await the predictable, negative one-line retort like the chap earlier gave me.

herbieflowers

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Personnally I would stand up and applaud them (Not that I would ever be in OT but you get my point) that's a great achievement. But the point is the LOI fans about English football team supporters tar with the same brush and so do the English supporting fans with LOI. But not all are like that.

I don't support the Irish National Team, I am not patriotic I guess but I don't support them cause the FAI are muppets and are hated up and down the country but people still pay extortinate fee's that go straight into their hands. Its like the United fans protesting at Glazer's sitting in their United jerseys in their 60 quid seat and a 5 quid green and gold scarf.. Yeah that's gonna hurt them.

Sorry went off on a tangent. But my point is, the team closest to me would be Sporting Fingal. I know their youth goalkeeper but that's it, I don't know the team, I know nothing about them I have no interest in how they do, but I should go see them cause its the right thing to do?

I go watch my local team every week (By local I mean the team across the road) playing the parks around the place, why don't you do that? They should have more affiliation to you, you don't have to pay either and you get a good friendship with the lads, go for pints with the pints with the lads. Am I a better supporter than LOI lads now?

Not having a go at you specifically but the oneupmanship that these threads usually deteriorate into is petty and childish.

The simple fact is that football can be enjoyed a lot of different ways. Whether it's supporting a successful English club, going along to your local side, whatever. So enjoy it, and leave the bitterness and snide comments, from both sides, alone!

My own thoughts on the match were that it was shameful on the part of the FAI, if they had any interest in promoting the league here, to go ahead with this game. A full-strength Man Utd versus a cobbled-together select team was never going to reflect well on the league, and it's no doubt reinforced certain preconceptions in the minds of many about the league.

Though I'm aware of United's huge following here, I still thought it was a little sad to hear the bulk of the cheering directed towards the United players, in a game where a local side were involved. Inevitable, I know, but it didn't sit well with me at all.

Xavi6

murpho999 wrote: »

I myself am a Liverpool supporter, have never bothered with League of Ireland and I never will. Poor players, poor grounds, and also they never get anywhere in Europe. Success is what makes clubs more attractive to supporters too. Supporting a team that can only dream of beating Bohemians in a league or FAI cup final when you can have clubs that compete againts Europe's top clubs and players in Champion's League.
I can never see this changing.

So if Liverpool, hypothetically, got relegated to say League One you'd become a United/Chelsea/insertsuccessfulclubhere fan?

major bill

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Of course there is an Irish link. If a star comes along then people are going to want to see them. You can guarantee many Welsh United fans would cite the impact of Giggs in the nineties as a reason for supporting them. Likewise many United fans would cite Keane and Irwin being stars at United as a reason for following them, or Villa fans who would say McGrath.

It goes back to the argument about the MLS and how they really need some home-grown stars to help promote the game there.

Really, why would Irish fans want to watch average at best talents when the best young Irish guys are plying their trade in England? It's not rocket science. The 'true' Irish chaps on here might not like it but most people watch sport to be entertained and find looking out for the top Irish talents abroad, and on the national team, sufficient rather than watching LOI standard football.

You want more gates? Get more stars. Find a way to stop the exodus of top talent overseas. The best Irish players are in England, and the ones that aren't picked remain here, and LOI fans wonder why there is little interest.

Frankly this whole 'I'm better and more Irish than you' bollocks is about as productive or useful as some Irish language enthusiast in Gweedore telling me they're more Irish than me because they can speak Gaelic. If you want to promote Irish sport, Irish language etc. then look at the root cause of the problem and stop the pitiful slagging. Both issues incidentally are caused by external influences across the Irish sea. You can look to try and come up with solutions and promote either/both or hit out at the ordinary folks who just want to enjoy their free time. It seems like the current attitude of most LOI fans is the latter.

Of course I'm wasting my time pointing this out as many don't want to know so I'll await the predictable, negative one-line retort like the chap earlier gave me.

mate its a fair point but the same can be said about the fans that slate a person for going to watch a LOI game the number of people that have asked me who i support and then asked who i really support is shocking d1ckheads on both sides of the argument.

''want more gates get more stars'', great point well actually not really u need money which is something the MLS has lots of, clubs in this country need people paying in at the gates to even have any chance of trying to woo in someone decent of celebrity status. as i said above the league is a vicious cycle and the only way its ever gonna be anything is if fifa brought in a bizarre law stating that all players from the republic of ireland must play in the republic of ireland which is very unrealistic.

Reganio 2

herbieflowers wrote: »

Not having a go at you specifically but the oneupmanship that these threads usually deteriorate into is petty and childish.

The simple fact is that football can be enjoyed a lot of different ways. Whether it's supporting a successful English club, going along to your local side, whatever. So enjoy it, and leave the bitterness and snide comments, from both sides, alone!

Nope I agree with you the pointess oneupmanship is just depressing. I am just saying to the LOI lads who think they are better than the "Barstoolers" if I and I am sure many other people go out and support our local Sunday League team, are we technically able to say we are better than them? I know I did it the wrong way but I think you get what I mean.

Het-Field

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Of course there is an Irish link. If a star comes along then people are going to want to see them. You can guarantee many Welsh United fans would cite the impact of Giggs in the nineties as a reason for supporting them. Likewise many United fans would cite Keane and Irwin being stars at United as a reason for following them, or Villa fans who would say McGrath.

It goes back to the argument about the MLS and how they really need some home-grown stars to help promote the game there.

Really, why would Irish fans want to watch average at best talents when the best young Irish guys are plying their trade in England? It's not rocket science. The 'true' Irish chaps on here might not like it but most people watch sport to be entertained and find looking out for the top Irish talents abroad, and on the national team, sufficient rather than watching LOI standard football.

You want more gates? Get more stars. Find a way to stop the exodus of top talent overseas. The best Irish players are in England, and the ones that aren't picked remain here, and LOI fans wonder why there is little interest.

Frankly this whole 'I'm better and more Irish than you' bollocks is about as productive or useful as some Irish language enthusiast in Gweedore telling me they're more Irish than me because they can speak Gaelic. If you want to promote Irish sport, Irish language etc. then look at the root cause of the problem and stop the pitiful slagging. Both issues incidentally are caused by external influences across the Irish sea. You can look to try and come up with solutions and promote either/both or hit out at the ordinary folks who just want to enjoy their free time. It seems like the current attitude of most LOI fans is the latter.

Of course I'm wasting my time pointing this out as many don't want to know so I'll await the predictable, negative one-line retort like the chap earlier gave me.

The link is of undeniable importance. It is wonderful that talented Young Irish players are given an opportunity to develop, which would never be afforded to them within the infrastructure which the National League put in place. It is only right and proper that players like Stephen Hunt, Kevin Doyle, Keith Fahey etc have been given a chance to develop into full internationals, and seek out multi-million pound deals.

For the National League to develop, it will need to understand that it will not become an unbridled success over the course of a few seasons. It also has to be willing to look further afield for players, and actively recruit young talent from International Teams, which they have forged links with. Financial stability is also key, and the fact that clubs like Shelbourne, Cork City, Derry City, Kildare County etc played russian roulette with the revenue men is an indictment of the National League's heirarchy, and those who were charged with running the league.

Het-Field

Xavi6 wrote: »

So if Liverpool, hypothetically, got relegated to say League One you'd become a United/Chelsea/insertsuccessfulclubhere fan?

In fact, it seems that he is describing Liverpool at the moment !

CorkMan

major bill wrote: »

i think this thread has sent out a lot of mixed signals to people, i hate the LOI ''we are better than you cos we support our local team'' brigade just as much as the ''LOI is ****e i seen one game on the telly'' brigade, nobody should be forced to go watch their local team or support irish football loads of people in this country come from an area unrepersented in the LOI.sporting fingal are only a new team so i shouldnt think u would have any connection with them whatsoever.
its quite fustrating knowing the league has a lot of potential as football is a very popular sport in ireland but year after year we lose good young players to english clubs for pittance as the clubs are in so much dire conditions finacially due to low crowds and ridiculous wages that they have to accept these offers.its a vicious cycle and its not fair to blame people for not going but its a good night out especially when your in a group of 20 30 lads this is what makes me go not the football to an extent.

Look at Brazil, they're league is a good bit better than ours. The likes of Corinthians with Roberto Carlos at the back, Ronaldo up front and I say no bad players elsewhere. They would win the league here almost every season, if not every IMO.

Yet Brazil loses it's talent to the "big 3", EPL, La Liga and Serie A. I don't know how ye think Ireland can hold onto the Duff's, Robbie Keane's, Shay Givens, etc when Brazil/Argentina/Portugal/Czech Republic, etc can't keep their home grown talent. It is not possible for Ireland to keep its stars in todays game, and I don't blame them either. Even in League 1 or the Championship they'd make a lot more money than here, never mind if they are good enough to make the EPL.

Plus LoI isn't very bad IMO. We are just below UEFA Cup standard. Below obviously the big 3, and the Czech Republics, Ukraine, leagues of that standard though I say the best Irish sides would survive the vast majority of leagues in all of Europe. Russia, Holland, Czech Republic, Sweden etc.

The Rooster

major bill wrote: »

second bold post, the gas thing is these same people will be the first ones delighted to see england getting knocked out of the world cup/european championships its very hypocritical.

It would probably be more hypocritical if they supported England.

Very difficult for any ManU fan to support a team containing Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Johnson, Cole, etc.

speedboatchase

CorkMan wrote: »

Look at Brazil, they're league is a good bit better than ours. The likes of Corinthians with Roberto Carlos at the back, Ronaldo up front and I say no bad players elsewhere. They would win the league here almost every season, if not every IMO.

Yet Brazil loses it's talent to the "big 3", EPL, La Liga and Serie A. I don't know how ye think Ireland can hold onto the Duff's, Robbie Keane's, Shay Givens, etc when Brazil/Argentina/Portugal/Czech Republic, etc can't keep their home grown talent. It is not possible for Ireland to keep its stars in todays game, and I don't blame them either. Even in League 1 or the Championship they'd make a lot more money than here, never mind if they are good enough to make the EPL.

Plus LoI isn't very bad IMO. We are just below UEFA Cup standard. Below obviously the big 3, and the Czech Republics, Ukraine, leagues of that standard though I say the best Irish sides would survive the vast majority of leagues in all of Europe. Russia, Holland, Czech Republic, Sweden etc.

5ForKeeps

I think last night showed in esssence whats wrong with the modern day football supporter. Utd fans wearin their jester hats in tow with their new kit and green and gold scarf. Talk about being hypocritical, were there supporters protesting against theirselves? While also not supporting their own country men....

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So true. You'd.never see American, asain or African fans cheering an epl side against a local one. Never. So Irish.

roryc wrote: »

This is wrong... I've seen United play in Asia and 90% of the fans were local (or at least from the country), and yet there were a huge amount of United jerseys around.

Obv they could have come from different parts of the country to watch United play against a team that was not exactly their local team, but the point still stands

Was being sarcastic.

5ForKeeps wrote: »

I think last night showed in esssence whats wrong with the modern day football supporter. Utd fans wearin their jester hats in tow with their new kit and green and gold scarf. Talk about being hypocritical, were there supporters protesting against theirselves? While also not supporting their own country men....

Green and Gold is a protest against the owners of the club, not a protest against the club, not a protest against sponsors of the club.

5ForKeeps

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Green and Gold is a protest against the owners of the club, not a protest against the club, not a protest against sponsors of the club.

I am fully aware it is a protest against the owners what are they protesting against if they putting money into the glazers pockets by buying the new kits. In my opinion that is hypocritical, the green and gold campaign was great in the beginning but it has become a fashion statement as was in evidence last night "to fit in"

Mitch Connor

5ForKeeps wrote: »

I am fully aware it is a protest against the owners what are they protesting against if they putting money into the glazers pockets by buying the new kits. In my opinion that is hypocritical, the green and gold campaign was great in the beginning but it has become a fashion statement as was in evidence last night "to fit in"

Buying jerseys puts no money into the glazer pockets.

Do you have the same reaction to Liverpool (or United fans) protesting about the owners of their clubs at the games? To do so they have bought tickets, which actually does put money in the owners pockets (unlike buying the new United kit)

daveyboy_1ie

Was anyone else impressed with Smalling's performance? Before anyone goes on about the standard of opposition I am talking about his calmness and general play. He looks to have HUGE potential and the reported £8M fee looks good business.

RasTa

The majority of the mightnight ramblings on this thread reminds me of an Xbox v Playstation or Microsoft v Apple debate.

Mitch Connor

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Was anyone else impressed with Smalling's performance? Before anyone goes on about the standard of opposition I am talking about his calmness and general play. He looks to have HUGE potential and the reported £8M fee looks good business.

First half he looked good enough, calm on the ball etc. Was impressed with the attacking positions he picked up too.

However, I do think he did very very badly for the goal, got completely sucked in way out of position.