Airtricity 11 vs Man. Utd - **MOD NOTE POST 457**

Wolfe Tone

CiaranC wrote: »

You must be new here

Thats right, don't address any of the points I made.


The simple fact is that this is an advertisement for the LOI. If the best players don't play it will look bad for the LOI. Kids who go along to see utd will not see anything in the opposing team that will make them ask their Dads to bring them to see a LOI game.
Whoever is sent to play, they will appear to be the best the LOI has to offer. Thats why they should send the best. Otherwise people will see a supposed best XI get hammered by utd and have a good laugh. They wont fork out money the following week to watch them. This is the LOI getting presented on a big stage.

The LOI as a whole will benefit if any sort of performance is given.

Oat23

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Average Joe wont know or care about fixture congestion etc. He will see a league of Ireland XI, which he will think is the best they have, get hammered by a reserve Man U team. What impression will that give about the league?

Who gives a f**k what he thinks?
For example: If you go into a pub on a Saturday afternoon while all the barstoolers are gathered to watch the ''big game'' and you ask anyone ''Are you heading to the [insert LoI match here] tonight?'', the response you will get 90% of the time is ''Why would anyone watch that joke league?'' or something similar.
It happens all the time around here.
There opinion isn't going to be changed no matter what happens in this game.
Airtricity Team get hammered 7-0: They'll say expected.
Airtricity Team lose 1-0: ''We weren't trying''/''We didn't want to embarass them''.

If any Sligo Rovers players are released for this I'll be pissed big time. We have an away game in Bray 2 days after this match and a friendly with Everton on the 8th that will actually benefit the club.

Wolfe Tone

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Who gives a f**k what he thinks?
For example: If you go into a pub on a Saturday afternoon while all the barstoolers are gathered to watch the ''big game'' and you ask anyone ''Are you heading to the [insert LoI match here] tonight?'', the response you will get 90% of the time is ''Why would anyone watch that joke league?'' or something similar.
It happens all the time around here.
There opinion isn't going to be changed no matter what happens in this game.
Airtricity Team get hammered 7-0: They'll say expected.
Airtricity Team lose 1-0: ''We weren't trying''/''We didn't want to embarass them''.

If any Sligo Rovers players are released for this I'll be pissed big time. We have an away game in Bray 2 days after this match and a friendly with Everton on the 8th that will actually benefit the club.

What about tomorrows fans, the little lads? This may be the first time that they will see LOI in any form. If the LOI put forward a joke of a team, what will they think?

Who gives a f*ck what he thinks? The clubs that need his money will. This is a chance to expand the fan base.

Oat23

Bull****, you're kidding yourself if you think this is a ''chance'' for the LoI.
I'm one of the small % that managed to get out of the barstooler lifestyle before it started. My dad basically christened me a Man U fan, the jerseys, the bedding, the tracksuits, all that crap. I was kidding myself until I was 11.
The next generation don't have a chance. They will go through the exact same thing I did.

Wolfe Tone

Ok, you tell me, what will people think if they see a supposed best XI get hamered by sub par utd team?

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The simple fact is that this is an advertisement for the LOI.

Its not an advertisment for the LOI, its a money making exercise for the FAI to fleece the barstoolers and daytrippers who havent a clue about football and will happily pay 50 euro to watch Manchesters reserves play a nothing side labelled Airtricity XI, when it will OBVIOUSLY not be an Airticity XI - four of our teams could be playing in Europe at the same time this match is on and there is a full league program, including the Dublin derby which may well decide the league, two days later.

These fans have never and will never come along to football matches here on anything more than a novelty basis, we are far, far beyond caring what they think.

Wolfe Tone

CiaranC wrote: »

Its not an advertisment for the LOI, its a money making exercise for the FAI to fleece the barstoolers and daytrippers who havent a clue about football and will happily pay 50 euro to watch Manchesters reserves play a nothing side labelled Airtricity XI, when it will OBVIOUSLY not be an Airticity XI - four of our teams could be playing in Europe at the same time this match is on and there is a full league program, including the Dublin derby which may well decide the league, two days later.

These fans have never and will never come along to football matches here on anything more than a novelty basis, we are far, far beyond caring what they think.

Thats right, if you don't follow the LOI you know nothing about football.

Many will see this as a chance for the LOI to show what it has got. The way its looking it will seem that they have nothing.

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats right, if you don't follow the LOI you know nothing about football.

Many will see this as a chance for the LOI to show what it has got. The way its looking it will seem that they have nothing.

Again, no-one who knows anything about football in this country would see this as "a chance for the LOI to show what it has got". Its clashes with competitive Champions League & Europa League football, and is two days before a full league program, including what may turn out to be the biggest game of the season.

The FAI knew this all along. They dont give a ****. Its never been about advertising the league, ever. Not for the FAI, not for the fans of the league, not for the clubs of the league, and not for the daytrippers out to have a goo at Manchester running around the fancy new stadium.

bohsman

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats right, if you don't follow the LOI you know nothing about football.

Many will see this as a chance for the LOI to show what it has got. The way its looking it will seem that they have nothing.

Are you actually reading peoples responses or are you just trolling?

If Bohs finish the job in Wales they will have a Champions League game the night of Delaneys friendly.

Should Bohs release players for the friendly?

Shamrock Rovers have a massive game against Bohs a couple of days after the Man U game.

Should Rovers release players for the friendly?

Wolfe Tone

I would have thought it obvious I was referring to the post I quoted. Perhaps not.

The point I made stands, if the LOI send a rubbish team that will be deemed to be the level of the league.

GLaDOS

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The point I made stands, if the LOI send a rubbish team that will be deemed to be the level of the league.

The best players are busy playing real matches, it's quite simple.

bohsman

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I would have thought it obvious I was referring to the post I quoted. Perhaps not.

The point I made stands, if the LOI send a rubbish team that will be deemed to be the level of the league.

Its impossible for the league to put out their strongest 11, Bohs play Wolves and Villa in friendlies this month, very few first team players will play for Bohs in either game. If people are happy to judge a leagues level based on 11 players being thrown together last minute and put up against one of the best teams in the world they were never going to start going to games anyway.

Wolfe Tone

Your average "barstooler" is not going to know that is he?

It is stupid timing, probably arrange to accommodate Man U.

bohsman

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Your average "barstooler" is not going to know that is he?

It is stupid timing, probably arrange to accommodate Man U.

Agreed on both counts and yes, definitely to accommodate Delaneys idols. Hes even talking about asking UEFA to put back our potential CL clash 24 hours.

Wolfe Tone

So this is really no win at all:
The best players wont play, the team put out will be hammered(maybe), many will think the LOI is really rubbish.

Do they even get some of the gate?

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So this is really no win at all:
The best players wont play, the team put out will be hammered(maybe), many will think the LOI is really rubbish.

Do they even get some of the gate?

We have been promoting the game (on the PA at half time, in the match programme, on the website etc), so presumably we are getting some kind of payment. No doubt the huge majority of profit will be to offset the FAIs horrific losses on their Vantage scheme.

Its worse than a "no win", its an insult to football fans here. They have moved League cup fixtures for this, our game versus Sligo Rovers is now at such a time that none of our fans can travel, depriving Sligo of what would probably be their biggest away gate of the season. Our national league champions will be playing in the Champions League that night and our national broadcaster is showing a friendly involving an english C team instead.

If they really wanted to showcase the league, they could have played the Dublin derby there and used the stadium as the draw for the non-LOI fans. At 15 euro a pop they could have drawn 15000-25000 fans and shown them first hand what the atmosphere at this game is like, and by extension maybe got a few to come back, if even just to that fixture.

It just really sums up everything that is wrong with football here.

Wolfe Tone

I suppose, but with utd there it is guaranteed to get money. Personally I am happy to see utd come here as they are my favorite team, but it should have been done under better circumstances. Im looking forward to it.

I suppose I will have to try my local team again, hopefully it will be a more "family friendly" atmosphere this time.

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I suppose, but with utd there it is guaranteed to get money. Personally I am happy to see utd come here as they are my favorite team, but it should have been done under better circumstances. Im looking forward to it.

I suppose I will have to try my local team again, hopefully it will be a more "family friendly" atmosphere this time.

Yeah I hear you, but unfortunately the money wont trickle down, its just to pay off their white elephant stadium

Fair play to you giving Drogs another go, you probably could have picked a better year mind

Wolfe Tone

Yeah, I know a few former players and that too..... I appreciate the football, just some of the thuggery put me off. Give it another try I suppose.

stovelid

The chances of people coming back to LOI after this type of match are very slim. Even if a full-strength selection is put out. If you want to introduce a new acolyte to the league, they're far better off meeting a few people that support the league, having a jar and heading to a a decent game like a derby. This is something like Des have suggested a few times. I can guarantee you that us versus Bohs or Pats at Tallaght would be a better atmosphere and experience than a non-competitive game in Landsdowne if you are there as a football supporter and not just to gawp at United.

Otherwise spare us the lectures about our clubs having to ensure that the Irish United supporters get a good day out at the expense of a European round or even the league title.

@ Mussolini: the level of actual trouble at games in general is extremely low in the League of Ireland. I can vouch for that.

homerjay2005

once the barstoolers digs are being mentioned, theres no point carrying on a debate like this. people are going to see no reason, and resort to a few cheap jibes, so whats the point?

i think this is a good chance for the LOI to showcase themselves. nobody is expecting players to give up the chance to play in europe for this. however, there are 19 or 20 other clubs, results depending, that wont be involved in europe that week or any week. it couldn't be fixed for the weekend as it would clash with big LOI fixtures, it probably cant be played the week before as united have other matches and the rugby has to be taken into account. so when the hell could it have been played?

and we are talking 2 or 3 players from each club max. if they had 2 foreign teams, the LOI fans wouldnt be happy. the international team cant play as they are already playing the week after, so who else could be involved? the fai try to do something right for a change and still people are not happy.

i really cant see any reason for LOI clubs to be unhappy here. if the players dont want to be involved, im sure they wont be. nobody will force them to play against their will and if the LOI werent happy with it, they clubs would not have accepted the friendly.

pablomakaveli

homerjay2005 wrote: »

once the barstoolers digs are being mentioned, theres no point carrying on a debate like this. people are going to see no reason, and resort to a few cheap jibes, so whats the point?

i think this is a good chance for the LOI to showcase themselves. nobody is expecting players to give up the chance to play in europe for this. however, there are 19 or 20 other clubs, results depending, that wont be involved in europe that week or any week. it couldn't be fixed for the weekend as it would clash with big LOI fixtures, it probably cant be played the week before as united have other matches and the rugby has to be taken into account. so when the hell could it have been played?

and we are talking 2 or 3 players from each club max. if they had 2 foreign teams, the LOI fans wouldnt be happy. the international team cant play as they are already playing the week after, so who else could be involved? the fai try to do something right for a change and still people are not happy.

i really cant see any reason for LOI clubs to be unhappy here. if the players dont want to be involved, im sure they wont be. nobody will force them to play against their will and if the LOI werent happy with it, they clubs would not have accepted the friendly.

LOI fans don't like it because it's being treated as more important than league, cup and european qualifiers which are more important to us and the clubs.

Why can't you understand that? Is it just because they are LOI games that they are being considered unimportant enough to be concerned about?

homerjay2005

pablomakaveli wrote: »

LOI fans don't like it because it's being treated as more important than league, cup and european qualifiers which are more important to us and the clubs.

Why can't you understand that? Is it just because they are LOI games that they are being considered unimportant enough to be concerned about?

how is it being considered more important? if the clubs are involved in europe, then their players wont be involved. is that not clear?

there is no pressure on the clubs to release players is there? nobody is forcing players to play in this against their will.

or am i wrong? are the fai doing something that is not public knowledge here and forcing players that dont want to play, to be involved?

what is the difference between clubs with international players having players send off all around europe for meaningless friendlies and back to their clubs for a game 72 hours later and this?

stovelid

homerjay2005 wrote: »

once the barstoolers digs are being mentioned,.

You yourself made derogatory comments about people who are merely looking after the best interests of their clubs.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

theres no point carrying on a debate like this.

Bye.

pablomakaveli

homerjay2005 wrote: »

how is it being considered more important? if the clubs are involved in europe, then their players wont be involved. is that not clear?

there is no pressure on the clubs to release players is there? nobody is forcing players to play in this against their will.

or am i wrong? are the fai doing something that is not public knowledge here and forcing players that dont want to play, to be involved?

what is the difference between clubs with international players having players send off all around europe for meaningless friendlies and back to their clubs for a game 72 hours later and this?

Well for one there have been league cup games moved to accomodate this friendly. It's also very close to the Shams/Bohs derby as well as other league matches and also being on the same night that Bohs could be playing in Europe and the FAI are considering asking for that to be moved to another day as well. That shows that the FAI consider their friendly more important than the league.

At least with internationals it's an important honour to represent their countries but this friendly is meaningless for these players.

Lamper.sffc

[QUOTE=homerjay2005;66911009](1)once the barstoolers digs are being mentioned, theres no point carrying on a debate like this. people are going to see no reason, and resort to a few cheap jibes, so whats the point?

(2)i think this is a good chance for the LOI to showcase themselves. nobody is expecting players to give up the chance to play in europe for this. however, there are 19 or 20 other clubs, results depending, that wont be involved in europe that week or any week. it couldn't be fixed for the weekend as it would clash with big LOI fixtures, it probably cant be played the week before as united have other matches and the rugby has to be taken into account. so when the hell could it have been played?

(3)and we are talking 2 or 3 players from each club max. if they had 2 foreign teams, the LOI fans wouldnt be happy.(4) the international team cant play as they are already playing the week after, so who else could be involved? the (5)fai try to do something right for a change and still people are not happy.

(6) i really cant see any reason for LOI clubs to be unhappy here. if the players dont want to be involved, im sure they wont be. nobody will force them to play against their will and if the LOI werent happy with it, they clubs would not have accepted the friendly.[/QUOTE]

(1) I agree with you when the word barstoolers gets used then peoples arguments start to lose weight to a certain degree, but points made are still valid and shouldnt be over looked just because the word is used.

(2) It would have been if it was two league of ireland teams playing but the fact that the majority of fans will be cheering against the irish side is quite embarassing tbh. Esp considering its the opening game in our national stadium.

(3) 2 or 3 of our best players. You cant say that clubs with very important games should risk their best players for a game that is far to close to LOI fixtures. You devalue the importance of these games by your comments. To us these games are far too important. Again I say this is not LOI warriorism its just how fans of a football team feel and rightly so.

(4) So you are saying its alright for LOI Clubs to release players when they have important (competitive) fixture to play but the national side couldnt possible do it due to them playing a friendly a week later.
By the way, I understand why the national side cant do it but why would you think its alright for us to instead.

(5) People are not happy due to the fact that the fai are completely ignoring the needs of the national league in preference to a once off friendly against Man U. I think we are intitled to be annoyed at this fixture esp considering it was originally earmarked as a game between two LOI teams.

(6) Then you havent read what was previously wrote or you are choosing not to listen.

homerjay2005

stovelid wrote: »

You yourself made derogatory comments about people who are merely looking after the best interests of their clubs.

excuse me, what comments are derogatory?

i have nothing against LOI clubs or fans, unlike some people on here and unlike the majority of LOI fans who have a huge problem with "barstooling" as they call it. i have already outlined that i know several players who play or have played at that level and I know their mentality. i know that this would be a huge honour for them.

i dont follow a team in the top 22 clubs, as i have no affinity to them. i am not from an area that has a team in the top 22. i do however have a local club, i played for them for 12 years before i moved to dublin at which time i transferred to a team here. they are a club that was one game away from being involved in last years FAI senior cup first round. i have travelled all over ireland to play for them and since i left, support them when they are playing in national competitions. i am a fan of the LOI, i have been to tolka park to see shels play in the league, setanta cup and and on many occasions with some of the LOI fans on here. so please tell me why would i want or need to make derogatory comments about football in this country? just cos i support an english team, which is down to family connections, does not mean i have no interest in local football or i am not allowed have an opinion on it.

i have an opinion that people are using this as an excuse to have any reason to gripe with the FAI and i have yet to see a reason why to change it. i think this is good for the game in this country.

stovelid

homerjay2005 wrote: »

excuse me, what comments are derogatory?

homerjay2005 wrote: »

less of the LOI warrior-ism please.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have nothing against LOI clubs or fans, unlike some people on here and unlike the majority of LOI fans who have a huge problem with "barstooling" as they call it. i have already outlined that i know several players who play or have played at that level and I know their mentality. i know that this would be a huge honour for them.

i dont follow a team in the top 22 clubs, as i have no affinity to them. i am not from an area that has a team in the top 22. i do however have a local club, i played for them for 12 years before i moved to dublin at which time i transferred to a team here. they are a club that was one game away from being involved in last years FAI senior cup first round. i have travelled all over ireland to play for them and since i left, support them when they are playing in national competitions. i am a fan of the LOI, i have been to tolka park to see shels play in the league, setanta cup and and on many occasions with some of the LOI fans on here. so please tell me why would i want or need to make derogatory comments about football in this country? just cos i support an english team, which is down to family connections, does not mean i have no interest in local football or i am not allowed have an opinion on it.

With respect, I'm not bothered about your (or lack of) LOI credentials.

You entitled to have any opinion you want but not to dictate to supporters of clubs what their priorities should be.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think this is good for the game in this country.

I don't.

The idea that a friendly against a huge foreign team will drum up interest in the game here has been proven to wrong many times.

The only time I can think of the publicity being good is Rovers and Madrid, but I think that the Madrid game was only a small part of the positive package of Tallaght. And we made some money out of that.

I don't hate the FAI blindly.

I don't need to as, in the lead up to this game, they have:

Screwed over a cash-starved team to muscle in on the lucrative friendly trade

Slapped a friendly (of zero financial benefit to the LOI) right in the middle of a busy league, European and friendlies schedule

Arbitrarily moved several cup games to accommodate this game

Neglected to realize that the game (a game thAt''s supposedly "good for the game here") might clash with a potential Champions League game involving the league champions. Not to mention the fact that the state broadcaster is now televising the friendly on that might.

In particular, how does the last point sit with the theory of helping and publicizing the local game?


As for what the players want: you admit to prioritizing the right of Rooney or Berbatov to expand energy in playing whim games over absolutely crucial competitive games and I'll concede the point. United doing the far-east gigs is not comparable as these have a serious financial aspect for the club. International friendlies are down the club's own wishes. I sure that neither type of game would be palatable to most supporters when the club is pushing for the league and Europe.


This game is not about showcasing the league. It is about saving Delaney's neck because the Vantage scheme has collapsed and they are in serious hock over the stadium. Nothing more, nothing less.

homerjay2005

have any players or clubs come out and said they didnt want to be involved?

also, if the players/clubs were getting money, would their be a different view from the LOI fans.

Gavin "shels"

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Hilarious lads. Funny stuff.
Maybe if it wasn't for the behavior of the fans I could have enjoyed it. But maybe thats just Drogheda utd.

I always love this mentality, the behaviour of the fans. Was anyone shot in United Park that night?

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/man-united-fan-shot-in-row-over-tv-derby-match-2025114.html

homerjay2005 wrote: »

have any players or clubs come out and said they didnt want to be involved?

also, if the players/clubs were getting money, would their be a different view from the LOI fans.

Pat Fenlon iirc said he wasn't going to have any part of it once the FAI said they were trying to move the Bohs possible Champions League match to faciliate the English club.