You think your job is bad? Try working for Microsoft in China!

Biggins

You think your job is bad? Try working for Microsoft in China!
...and count your blessings your living in Ireland or anywhere else now!

Not exactly the face Microsoft want you to know about or see - or China's government for that matter.

China's Youth Meet Microsoft
KYE Factory in China Produces for Microsoft and other U.S. Companies

"We are like prisoners... We do not have a life. Only work."
-Teenaged Microsoft Worker

• Over the past three years, unprecedented photographs of exhausted teenaged workers, toiling and slumping asleep on their assembly line during break time, have been smuggled out of the KYE factory.

• KYE recruits hundreds-even up to 1,000-"work study students" 16 and 17 years of age, who work 15-hour shifts, six and seven days a week. In 2007 and 2008, dozens of the work study students were reported to be just 14 and 15 years old. A typical shift is from 7:45 a.m. to 10:55 p.m.

• Along with the work study students-most of whom stay at the factory three months, though some remain six months or longer-KYE prefers to hire women 18 to 25 years of age, since they are easier to discipline and control.

• In 2007 and 2008, before the worldwide recession, workers were at the factory 97 hours a week while working 80 ½ hours. In 2009, workers report being at the factory 83 hours a week, while working 68 hours.

• Workers are paid 65 cents an hour, which falls to a take-home wage of 52 cents after deductions for factory food.

• Workers are prohibited from talking, listening to music or using the bathroom during working hours. As punishment, workers who make mistakes are made to clean the bathrooms.

• Security guards sexually harass the young women.

• Fourteen workers share each primitive dorm room, sleeping on narrow double-level bunk beds. To "shower," workers fetch hot water in a small plastic bucket to take a sponge bath. Workers describe factory food as awful.

• Not only are the hours long, but the work pace is grueling as workers race frantically to complete their mandatory goal of 2,000 Microsoft mice per shift. During the long summer months when factory temperatures routinely reach 86 degrees, workers are drenched in sweat.

• There is no freedom of movement and workers can only leave the factory compound during regulated hours.

• The workers have no rights, as every single labor law in China is violated. Microsoft's and other companies' codes of conduct have zero impact.

Long article so if you can't be bothered, best to leave now and live in unknowing bliss.

http://www.nlcnet.org/reports?id=0034&t=1

Download PDF version: http://www.nlcnet.org/admin/reports/files/Chinas_Youth_Meet_Micro.pdf

the_monkey

Jesus!
A absolute disgrace, typical greedy US companies. I worked for <snip -- removed company name> ,
a disgusting disgusting bunch - they'd sell poison to kids if they could
get away with it.

tipperaryboy

That really is terrible.Gates profit before people..being one of the worlds richest why can't he pay employees a decent wage.

Havermeyer

I call shenanigans.

apple propaganda, me thinks.

recylingbin

Which is nicer...teenaged or beechwood aged?

partyatmygaff

Don't go blaming Gates for everything. I highy doubt he has that much control over an outsourced manufacturing company in China. His company should look in to their manufacturing partners though.

Biggins

nummnutts wrote: »

I call shenanigans.

apple propaganda, me thinks.

Think again nummnutts!
The National Labour Committee is run by Apple!
- I don't think so nummnutts!

http://www.nlcnet.org/

recylingbin

I had to work through lunch in sandyford a few years back.
Me and the chinese are as one.

ixoy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Don't go blaming Gates for everything. I highy doubt he has that much control over an outsourced manufacturing company in China. His company should look in to their manufacturing partners though.

Exactly - he probably isn't aware of every arm of outsourcing, particularly since he's taken a step back from the day-to-day running of Microsoft. Let's give him some credit - he's been pretty decent with his earnings, being one of the all time biggest philanthropists.

Bonito

Well he has to make as much money as he can. China have an OS they're waiting to blitz the market with. It's so brilliant that the only processors suitable for it are not affordable yet. When they are it'll be bye bye Bill. :cool:

I'll have a root around for a link. o/

Havermeyer

Biggins wrote: »

Think again nummnutts!
The National Labour Committee is run by Apple!
- I don't think so nummnutts!

http://www.nlcnet.org/

Think again Biggins?
You really think I'm serious about a conspiracy by apple?
- I don't think so Biggins.

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao

marco_polo

Bonito wrote: »

Well he has to make as much money as he can. China have an OS they're waiting to blitz the market with. It's so brilliant that the only processors suitable for it are not affordable yet. When they are it'll be bye bye Bill. :cool:

I'll have a root around for a link. o/

You sure you are not thinking of Vista

partyatmygaff

Bonito wrote: »

Well he has to make as much money as he can. China have an OS they're waiting to blitz the market with. It's so brilliant that the only processors suitable for it are not affordable yet. When they are it'll be bye bye Bill. :cool:

I'll have a root around for a link. o/

I'm guessing it's another *nix OS that a handful of people will be insane about amd with a much more sizeable amount of people not caring about.

Biggins

ixoy wrote: »

Exactly - he probably isn't aware of every arm of outsourcing, particularly since he's taken a step back from the day-to-day running of Microsoft. Let's give him some credit - he's been pretty decent with his earnings, being one of the all time biggest philanthropists.

This is true and he has stepped back now to lead a life of further charitable work.
My point mentioning him is that while he was still at the helm, maybe he and those working for him should have/still be looking at those making him/them rich still.

I don't think the public image of him as a man of charity sits too well with the exposure of these poor downtrodden workers.
I suspect with this latest news he might start to lose some sleep - at least till the PR guru's get to work.

The_Minister

Microsoft probably doesn't know whats going on in that factory.

Companies outsource work to places in China, and nowadays (after the 'sweat-shop' scandels of the '90s) force the people they contract with to agree to minimum working conditions for workers.

However, as the lowest bidder gets the contract, and higher wages are expensive, very often they will sign the contract and just bribe the inspectors to give them good reports and say they are complying, so the company doesn't know anything is wrong until the CEO is getting calls about rights abuses.

Then everyone goes nuts at the 'heartless' corporations, even though they had no idea that the people they had contracted with had committed these crimes.

Bonito

Bonito wrote: »

Well he has to make as much money as he can. China have an OS they're waiting to blitz the market with. It's so brilliant that the only processors suitable for it are not affordable yet. When they are it'll be bye bye Bill. :cool:

I'll have a root around for a link. o/

Here and here.

Sorry these are old reports but I do remember coming across a new one not so long ago.

Biggins

The_Minister wrote: »

Microsoft probably doesn't know whats going on in that factory.

Every company that carries out Microsoft work is consistently inspected yearly, on more than one basis.
One company that used to do Microsoft items "KAO Information Systems" (Santry) use to be very regular inspected.
"KAO" was a good company and looked after its workers - unlike these poor sods in China sadly.

Microsoft are absolutely strict when it comes to control of the factor floor.
They set the rules, the deadlines and monitoring.

Kiith

They wouldnt be able to get away with it if China didnt let them. But who needs basic human rights eh?

sock puppet

After the whole Apple suicide scandal, it's no surprise that Microsoft's suppliers are up to the exact same thing.

Biggins

sock puppet wrote: »

After the whole Apple suicide scandal...

Huh?

strobe

ixoy wrote: »

Exactly - he probably isn't aware of every arm of outsourcing, particularly since he's taken a step back from the day-to-day running of Microsoft. Let's give him some credit - he's been pretty decent with his earnings, being one of the all time biggest philanthropists.

Yeah but he's totally rich and stuff. Therefore omnipotent, so knows exactly what everyone attatched to his company has ever done. Scumbag! I say burn him with cigarettes. That'll teach him to make a fortune and give most of it to charity.

m@cc@

Biggins wrote: »

Not exactly the face Microsoft want you to know about or see - or China's government for that matter.
I wonder is Bill Gates sleeping well tonight? I'm guessing he is.

Jay Sherman: I]contemptuous[/I How do you sleep at night?
Bill Gates: On top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies.

marco_polo

Biggins wrote: »

Every company that carries out Microsoft work is consistently inspected yearly, on more than one basis.
One company that used to do Microsoft items "KAO Information Systems" (Santry) use to be very regular inspected.
"KAO" was a good company and looked after its workers - unlike these poor sods in China sadly.

Microsoft are absolutely strict when it comes to control of the factor floor.
They set the rules, the deadlines and monitoring.

As someone else said, such inspections could easily be subject to corruption. And as this is China almmost certainly are.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/202041.asp

We were therefore very concerned when we saw a report by the National Labor Committee (NLC) alleging that conditions at a factory operated by KYE in Dongguan, China, were adversely impacting workers. KYE assembles and packages hardware products for Microsoft and a wide range of other companies.

As a result of this report, we have a team of independent auditors en route to the facility to conduct a complete and thorough investigation. If we find that the factory is not adhering to our standards, we will take appropriate action.

We should note that as part of Microsoft's ongoing supplier SEA (Social and Environmental Accountability) program, an independent auditor has been inspecting the KYE factory annually. In addition, Microsoft personnel conduct quarterly on-site assessments, and receive weekly reports from KYE on key labor and safety criteria that we monitor as part of our supplier SEA program. Over the past two years, we have required documentation and verification of worker age, and no incidence of child labor has been detected. Worker overtime has been significantly reduced, and worker compensation is in line with the Electronic Industry Citizenship Coalition standards for the Dongguan area.

Not exactly defending them here as clearly their inspection processes are not up to scratch, but suggesting they were aware and condoning of such behaviour is a fairly wild stretch. Surely Chineese corporate culture is the more guilty party here.

Biggins

marco_polo wrote: »

As someone else said, said inspections could easily be subject to corruption.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/202041.asp

Sadly very true. I agree.

Whats the betting there will be a clean-up operation going on right now before newer inspectors are sent in and any possible suspected descenting staff are given a day off, by coincidence, the day the inspectors arrive.
...I'm open to be wrong.

Many seattlepi.com readers asked, in the comment section of our Tuesday report, whether Microsoft did any regular inspections of the KYE factory, where workers manufacture, among other products for other companies, Microsoft-branded mice and webcams. It seems Microsoft had, at least, been monitoring the working environment there.
Which raises the question: Is Microsoft OK with the alleged conditions at KYE?
The official answer, of course, was no. But the real answer?

Also note from here amid the PR spin:

...In addition, Microsoft personnel conduct quarterly on-site assessments...

sock puppet

Biggins wrote: »

Huh?

The company was Foxconn. By all accounts they're employment practices are a lot like KYE. It was a lot like this case. A worker at one of Apple's suppliers lost an iPhone prototype or something, and the company broke into his apartment and tortured him trying to find out if he'd stolen it. He was afraid of another torture session so he killed himself.

I'd hate to have to work in that kye plant. The bit where they hire young females as they're easily controlled is just sick.

PeakOutput

two things

these are not microsoft employees

and im sure this is extremely widespread with numerous irish companies probably outsourcing to the same companies

that dosnt make it right but demonising microsoft over it is ridicolous there are numerous people to blame including the japanese goverment

also bill gates has a much reduced role in running microsoft and concentrates alot of his time on the foundation and charity he donated 90% of his wealth to so all this big evil corporation head stuff is complete ****e

marco_polo

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly very true. I agree.

Whats the betting there will be a clean-up operation going on right now before newer inspectors are sent in and any possible suspected descenting staff are given a day off, by coincidence, the day the inspectors arrive.
...I'm open to be wrong.

Unfortunately I have little doubt that they are very well rehearsed in showing only what they want want to be seen.

Professey Chin

Bonito wrote: »

Here and here.

Sorry these are old reports but I do remember coming across a new one not so long ago.

Ah yes.I hear theyre calling it Nifty Doorways

Biggins

PeakOutput wrote: »

two things
these are not microsoft employees
and im sure this is extremely widespread with numerous irish companies probably outsourcing to the same companies...

I agree but they DO monitor the work places where items are made for them.

PeakOutput wrote: »

...also bill gates has a much reduced role in running microsoft and concentrates alot of his time on the foundation and charity he donated 90% of his wealth to so all this big evil corporation head stuff is complete ****e

Absolutely 100% correct.
He still retains a number of roles still though within the company as well as still being its owner.
JUST from a PR point of view - it don't make him shine.

DarrenMSP

Those people don't work for Microsoft :rolleyes:, they work for a factory company called KYE that create products for many Western companies, including Hewlett Packard, Best Buy, Samsung, Foxconn, Acer, Wi/IFC/Logitech, Asus and Microsoft.


Enough of the Big bad corporation sh*te, how about some focus on the oppressive government which rules the country? It's not like they have a human right record to be proud of. Have you seen any pictures of other Chinese factories? Read some reports, you'll see it's not really much different!

ascanbe

Most of the points relate to standard practice within the operation; so it kinda reads like 'Security guards sexually harass the young women' is set company policy; like they'd be fired if they weren't assiduous in their sexual harrasment responsibilities.
Anyway, due to the criminal bail-out of Anglo and the disaster that is Nama, the terms of employment in this country, for those lucky enough to have a job, won't be a million miles from those described here.

Biggins

DarrenMSP wrote: »

...how about some focus on the oppressive government which rules the country? It's not like they have a human right record to be proud of. Have you seen any pictures of other Chinese factories? Read some reports, you'll see it's not really much different!

Thats was partly the point of the post too which was why I said earlier "...and count your blessings your living in Ireland or anywhere else now! "

We really don't know how lucky we are sometimes.
At least we CAN give out and protest - like this pain in the backside (me) does when its possibly called for.

pebbles21

At least they have a job !! Ungrateful Ba$tards:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

I bet Chairman Mao is having a good spin in his grave now, wondering why non-communist communists are running his old stamping ground.

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

I bet Chairman Mao is having a good spin in his grave now, wondering why non-communist communists are running his old stamping ground.

They moved on from the little red book to bigger red boxes!
More money in it for someone high up somewhere in China?

ascanbe

The_Minister wrote: »

Microsoft probably doesn't know whats going on in that factory.

Companies outsource work to places in China, and nowadays (after the 'sweat-shop' scandels of the '90s) force the people they contract with to agree to minimum working conditions for workers.

However, as the lowest bidder gets the contract, and higher wages are expensive, very often they will sign the contract and just bribe the inspectors to give them good reports and say they are complying, so the company doesn't know anything is wrong until the CEO is getting calls about rights abuses.

Then everyone goes nuts at the 'heartless' corporations, even though they had no idea that the people they had contracted with had committed these crimes.

What? Any corporation involved in contracting out work should know exactly what conditions those operating under their banner have set for their workers.
If you agree that these conditions are 'heartless' then the corporation mentioned in this case is, indeed, heartless.
Contracting out work and then washing your hands of the conditions of labour is, at best, an abdication of responsibility; in reality though, it's simply turning a blind eye.

partyatmygaff

ascanbe wrote: »

What? Any corporation involved in contracting out work should know exactly what conditions those operating under their banner have set for their workers.
If you agree that these conditions are 'heartless' then the corporation mentioned in this case is, indeed, heartless.
Contracting out work and then washing your hands of the conditions of labour is, at best, an abdication of responsibility; in reality though, it's simply turning a blind eye.

They set out guidelines and the Factory should abide by them. The factory doesn't seem to care too much for that though.


I don't see why this has to single out Microsoft when in fact the company manufactures for many different brands. If you think this is bad you should see the conditions at Foxconn's factories. They make a lot of products for apple (Including the iPhone) and work conditions there are horrible.

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

They moved on from the little red book to bigger red boxes!
More money in it for someone high up somewhere in China?

They're quite good at dealing with book-fiddlers though. Had they been in charge of Ireland, several hundred bankers and property developers would have been strung up 18 months ago.

Lu Tze

When you can buy a mouse for less than a tenner, is it that surprising that pay and conditions are poor?

Call me selfish - but with irish wages applied to this situation the cheapest mouse you could get would probably be for €100.

So those of you condemning this, would you be willing to pay that much for a mouse produced by workers with excellent pay and conditions, or would you opt for the €10 mouse beside it on the shelf?

Its the consumers that decide this, our buying preference are responsible for this

PeakOutput

ascanbe wrote: »

What? Any corporation involved in contracting out work should know exactly what conditions those operating under their banner have set for their workers.
If you agree that these conditions are 'heartless' then the corporation mentioned in this case is, indeed, heartless.
Contracting out work and then washing your hands of the conditions of labour is, at best, an abdication of responsibility; in reality though, it's simply turning a blind eye.

this implies that the corporation has some sort of moral responsibility, which they dont. the only moral responsibility they have is to provide the best return possible to their shareholders

the chinese goverment have a moral responsibility to take care of their citizens

thats it basically at a root level. corporations can choose to be more socially responsible in how they do business but only with the permission off and the best interests of the shareholders at heart

Biggins

partyatmygaff wrote: »

...I don't see why this has to single out Microsoft when in fact the company manufactures for many different brands...

To be fair to the Labour committee's report, if they were just to state such things were going on - without backing up such claims, there would be others out there going "Yea, yea... prove it!"

So in this case they exposed one, a simple example - Microsoft.

I'm absolutely sure that this is the tip of the ice-berg and Microsoft products (as above) is sadly one of many, many instances as with other companies.
Again, thank heavens we are not under Chinese rule or working china conditions. As much as I hate to say it, they make Fianna Fail look tame - and that wasn't easy for me to say!

Plausible deniability by the way, Microsoft?

ascanbe

PeakOutput wrote: »

two things

these are not microsoft employees

and im sure this is extremely widespread with numerous irish companies probably outsourcing to the same companies

that dosnt make it right but demonising microsoft over it is ridicolous there are numerous people to blame including the japanese goverment

also bill gates has a much reduced role in running microsoft and concentrates alot of his time on the foundation and charity he donated 90% of his wealth to so all this big evil corporation head stuff is complete ****e

The Japanese governmet does deserve blame; but that is no excuse.
No one is focing the corporation in question to contract work out to operations in that country.
They are doing so because they feel it is benificial/profitible.
If you wish to defend the company from the point of view of economic/political ideology then have the courage of your convictions; i'm sure they don't need you to make excuses for them.

PeakOutput

ascanbe wrote: »

The Japanese governmet does deserve blame; but that is no excuse.
No one is focing the corporation in question to contract work out to operations in that country.
They are doing so because they feel it is benificial/profitible.
If you wish to defend the company from the point of view of economic/political ideology then have the courage of your convictions; i'm sure they don't need you to make excuses for them.

i refer you to my reply two posts up

ascanbe

PeakOutput wrote: »

this implies that the corporation has some sort of moral responsibility, which they dont. the only moral responsibility they have is to provide the best return possible to their shareholders

the chinese goverment have a moral responsibility to take care of their citizens

thats it basically at a root level. corporations can choose to be more socially responsible in how they do business but only with the permission off and the best interests of the shareholders at heart

I'm sure the company in question does make claims for itself regarding workers rights; that should extend to those they contract out work to.
Otherwise it's a false claim.
No one is forcing them to operate in countries with underwhelming human rights records; they do so because it's profitable.
If that is their modus operandi they should make it clear; people like yourself who have no time for 'moral responsibility' will still be there for them.
Is there any regime in history that you feel a company should have thought twice about profiting from?

ejmaztec

It's quite possible that Microsoft didn't actually know about the working conditions at this particular place. Their executives would have met the Chinese company's executives, and wouldn't have had a clue about the workers' situation.

It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does about it.

PeakOutput

ascanbe wrote: »

Is there any regime in history that you feel a company should have thought twice about profiting from?

yes i have serious problems with the fact that siemens was the name on the ovens in auschwitz

and i dont have 'no time for moral responsibility' but its not the companies place to enforce it, its the law of the lands place its one of the reasons why i dont believe in a completely free market/economy there are a few things that do need to be regulated


edit; i also like to give the company more benefit of the doubt until all facts are known which is part of my reason for taking the opposite side in many threads like this

ascanbe

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's quite possible that Microsoft didn't actually know about the working conditions at this particular place. Their executives would have met the Chinese company's executives, and wouldn't have had a clue about the workers' situation.

It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does about it.

Yeah. If this has just come to light, perhaps they will do something about it.
Anyway, i'm hypocritical in this instance as i have patronised the company in question and many others who, i'm sure, operate in the same fashion; maybe i should cease to.
Responded to some posts because i felt they were making an ideological point; don't think these mega corporations need people making excuses for them.

Augmerson

Microsoft is taking advantage of conditions lay down by the Chinese Gov't. Those fuckers are to blame for the atrocious conditions suffered by workers.

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's quite possible that Microsoft didn't actually know about the working conditions at this particular place. Their executives would have met the Chinese company's executives, and wouldn't have had a clue about the workers' situation.

It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does about it.

Just on that, Microsoft stated themselves they carry out quarterly inspections (see links in previous posts).
It also depends on how hard their inspectors once they got to China previously, wanted how hard really to actually look - and what to report back!
(thus my "plausible deniability" comment)

I suspect by the time the new round of inspectors get there in the following weeks, the place will shine like a new cent and smell of roses - at least for a while - till they go.

For the record, I know for a fact that Microsoft workers beyond China ARE - mostly as far as I know and I have met a few and been on their properties - treated good and decent.

ascanbe

PeakOutput wrote: »

yes i have serious problems with the fact that siemens was the name on the ovens in auschwitz

and i dont have 'no time for moral responsibility' but its not the companies place to enforce it, its the law of the lands place its one of the reasons why i dont believe in a completely free market/economy there are a few things that do need to be regulated


edit; i also like to give the company more benefit of the doubt until all facts are known which is part of my reason for taking the opposite side in many threads like this

Agree with you on the last point.
Regarding a corporations role in enforcing the 'law of the land' of any given state, of course they have no role; but they do have a choice as to which states they choose to operate in.
Any company that continued to operate in Nazi Germany were, implicitly, endorsing that regime and willingly profiting from it.
The same principle applies; though that is the most extreme example.

filthymcnasty

Biggins wrote: »

You think your job is bad? Try working for Microsoft in China!
...and count your blessings your living in Ireland or anywhere else now!

Not exactly the face Microsoft want you to know about or see - or China's government for that matter.
I wonder is Bill Gates sleeping well tonight? I'm guessing he is.

Long article so if you can't be bothered, best to leave now and live in unknowing bliss.

http://www.nlcnet.org/reports?id=0034&t=1

Download PDF version: http://www.nlcnet.org/admin/reports/files/Chinas_Youth_Meet_Micro.pdf

Biggins that is indeed outrageous, but the fact is people will queue for these jobs regardless- its gonna be better than working in the toothbrush factory or picking rice or waiting for chinese social 'protection' :rolleyes:
Whats your advice to penniless Chinese applicants? - don't apply and wait for Irish/EU Human rights to come over to save u and clarify conditions and rescue you from poverty once the volcanic cloud subsides-
You are right this is not on, but these people will not put up with the status quo- they will take these jobs because for them its better than the devil they know- what the fcuk else are are all chinese unemployed gonna do