Parking /Lay-bys on the Motorway Network: Are They Dangerous?

icdg

They're of dubious legality because you are not allowed stop on a motorway. There are no signs on any of these laybys saying "Motorway Regulations No Longer Apply" (or the crossed-out chopsticks sign which indicates End of Motorway Regulations) so as far as I can see they are still under motorway regulations and so the prohibition on stopping remains in effect!

I know on some motorways they are now signed "Garda Only" or "Emergency Vehicles Only" but in other instances the "P" symbol is still there. AFAIK they are only found on reclassified HQDCs and not on motorways which were built under MOs?

BluntGuy

Disagree with them, but they should probably be left there until (if ever) the MSAs are up and running. In the interim, they could do some inexpensive basic things, like erm... supply a bin perhaps?

GeneHunt

I have to agree that these lay-bys are potentially dangerous for the following reasons

1 – No protection from the mainline (crash barriers are needed concrete barriers are best cos if a vehicle is parked after dark and switches on their light, the barrier will block these lights from the mainline, so not alarming drivers on the mainline)

2 – There location, some are located on the outside of bends, and the slip lane into the layby could confuse a driver and look like the mainline in poor visibility (it need only be for a second, but at 120km/h - that’s over 33 meters per second)

3 – The on and off slip lanes are too short, you need to scrub off a lot of speed on the mainline before entering the layby and you will need to really floor it to get up to speed before rejoining the mainline. a HGV would be lucky to be doing 40km/h went joining the mainline.


I don’t understand why these parking areas couldn’t have been incorporated into a junction layout.

csd

Folks,

I emailed the NRA a while back regarding many of the issues that have been brought up on this thread. I'll summarise their response below.

The design of the parking areas is based on the UK Highway Agency's standard TA 69/07, which provides guidance on the provision, siting, and design of laybys on all-purpose roads (my emphasis). Of course you don't see them being installed on UK motorways (or any other motorways I've driven), but for some reason the standard has been adapted to motorways here. It is available here. The NRA deem that the reflective posts and kerbing are sufficient to prevent accidental vehicular ingress to the parking areas.

On the issue of the legality of parking there (in the absence of 'End of Motorway' signage), well apparently parking on a motorway is permitted under SI 182 of 1997, section 33, which states "a driver shall not park on any part of the motorway, however, this shall not apply in relation to any part of the motorway which is provided for the parking of vehicles or for the provision of services or amenities."

Two other issues I raised were that of people milling about a small car park where vehicles are entering and leaving at high speeds, as well as the lack of litter bins. Apparently people aren't supposed to leave their vehicles at all, so no litter bins are provided, and signage will be erected in telling people to stay in their cars.

Finally, on a more positive note, I was told that the laybys are indeed an interim meausre, pending the rollout of the MSA programme.

Hope this information is useful.

/csd

Amtmann

csd wrote: »

Two other issues I raised were that of people milling about a small car park where vehicles are entering and leaving at high speeds, as well as the lack of litter bins. Apparently people aren't supposed to leave their vehicles at all, so no litter bins are provided, and signage will be erected in telling people to stay in their cars.
/csd

At the parking bays south of M8 junction 9 people have made a track up the embankment presumably to answer the call of nature. Every single time I drive it there are people walking on the embankments. I don't blame these people, but it is laughable that while the infrastructure is so new, people are still reduced to doing this.

Chris_5339762

Yeah these laybys are only there in reality because they were designed HQDCs (all purpose roads so laybys are allowed), but then redesignated motorway. So then they had to look for a loophole to allow them to stay, I reckon.

Stinicker

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yeah these laybys are only there in reality because they were designed HQDCs (all purpose roads so laybys are allowed), but then redesignated motorway. So then they had to look for a loophole to allow them to stay, I reckon.

Drove from Dublin to Kerry yesterday via the M8 and the layby Southbound after the old turnoff at Cullahill is now closed, there was barriers across and nothing parked in there.

Solair

corktina wrote: »

i think its slow vehicles pulling out of them that would be the most dangerous aspect. Its WRONG to allow stopping in any form on a motorway..
I bet it gives tourists a great laugh!

A good few Uk peeps I know already laugh at our "turn back, wrong way signs" (although they seem loogical to me...

They're used in other countries too. I've seen them in the United States and Australia. Certain UK pps seem to find everything not done exactly the same way as they're used to amusing.

veryangryman

Solair wrote: »

They're used in other countries too. I've seen them in the United States and Australia. Certain UK pps seem to find everything not done exactly the same way as they're used to amusing.

I know the feeling.

When living there, there is a certain arrogance about them that every other country should "dance to our tune" or be considered odd. Even among people who are clearly less intelligent.

Guy from Come Dine With Me - prime example. very irritating. We do alot of things better than the UL. Fact that we now have more Motorway per head of population being one of them :cool:

-Corkie-

Furet wrote: »

At the parking bays south of M8 junction 9 people have made a track up the embankment presumably to answer the call of nature. Every single time I drive it there are people walking on the embankments. I don't blame these people, but it is laughable that while the infrastructure is so new, people are still reduced to doing this.

It sounds like your describing the road to beirurt... Its ridiculous. I was going to dublin early the other morning. Foot to the floor still a bit sleepy and a truck exited the lay-by on to the slow lane. I nearly hit him up the arse it all happened so quick.....:o

whyulittle

Saw one idiot one day for whatever reason, pulled in at the exit end of the lay-by, so did all of their slowing down in the driving lane.

hmmm

whyulittle wrote: »

Saw one idiot one day for whatever reason, pulled in at the exit end of the lay-by, so did all of their slowing down in the driving lane.

I regularly see people joining the N11 at Kilmacanogue by stopping on the sliproad, indicating and pulling out at 5 mph. While we still have these sorts of idiots on our roads, laybys on motorways will be lethal.

Worse, when someone is inevitably in an accident the Irish solution will be to put a speed limit on that section.

Solair

It's hardly surprising when 99.9% of drivers in Ireland had no formal training in how to use a motorway/dual carriageway.

It's just assumed that we somehow absorbed the rules of motorway driving by osmosis !

JupiterKid

I think these laybys are a hangover from the design spec for the HQDCs which were later redesignated to motorway. They are dangerous IMO for the reasons given by the others above.

However, given the lack of MSAs the laybys are useful as stopping/resting points. Perhaps the NRA could upgrade a few of these by extending the slip lanes and adding a concrete barrier between the layby and the mainline of the motorway?

Also, extending the surface of the layby further off the road onto the sides would make them safer and less vulnerable to being hit by motorway traffic. Maybe on a few of them bins and toilets could be provided? Unless this is done I fear a tragic accident will happen.

I've seen those hokey little "bollard" things knocked over on the divider strips betwen the laybys and mainline, so cars must be driving over them.

freighter

I drive a lorry and never use these lay-bys. Its impossible to build up good speed before you merge with traffic if you are loaded. I use them at night only if a man wanted to strain the spuds. The road is quieter then and you can see the lights coming.

cooltown

Yes! I saw a guy in a silver Audi A4 under-taking traffic in lane 1 and lane 2 using it!

etchyed

cooltown wrote: »

Yes! I saw a guy in a silver Audi A4 under-taking traffic in lane 1 and lane 2 using it!

Jesus Christ. Of all the posts about bad driving I've seen on Boards, this one takes the prize.

Jayuu

I did pull into one on the M6 a couple of weeks back because I needed to make an urgent phone call. For that alone I suppose it was helpful to have a formal stop area as opposed to just pulling into the hard shoulder.

However when I had finished my quick call I went to pull out only to discover that there was a car stopped in the exit lane, making it impossible to leave because of the bollards. The driver was standing beside it having a cigarette. It was impossible to get by him and while he did finish his cigarette he wasn't in any particular hurry to actually leave the area.

I couldn't work out why anybody would drive beyond the actual parking area and then stop but as we've noted here sometimes there's just explaining what Irish drivers are thinking.

sesna

Along the M6 to Galway, just before Athlone, alot of these lay-bys have high kerbs to separate them from the main carriage way.

The kerbs are not lit-up and would be lethal if a driver hit them at speed. Also they would be useless in separating traffic from parked cars in the event of an accident.

limklad

I always believe lay-bys designed here are dangerous. They are way too small and too close to the road and poorly signed. They are accidents waiting to happen. The road entering and leaving are way too short to decreased from Motorways speeds to such a small area and same for leaving. Most exit/entrance roads here are way too short for Motorway speeds.

In Many foreign countries I have travelled the Rest Stops are far superior than here and they are very much signed posted and entrance/exits are very visible at long distance.

daveharnett

I can see a point to them. They are marginally safer than the hard shoulder for:

• Gardai pulling cars over
• Car/bladder trouble
• Urgent need of rest

That being said, they desperately need more visability, marked slip lanes, and they need to be signposted well in advance (like a normal interchange/service area). I presume the latter is unique the new M7, where these things appear out of nowhere with no notice at all?

I would also point out that I have seen these laybys closed from time to time, by means of a steel barrier which has no lighting or reflective material :eek:

So, how long until a group of travelers moves into one of these?

daveharnett

JupiterKid wrote: »

However, given the lack of MSAs the laybys are useful as stopping/resting points. Perhaps the NRA could upgrade a few of these by extending the slip lanes and adding a concrete barrier between the layby and the mainline of the motorway?

All necessary, but they still wouldn't make parked vehicles safe from somebody steaming into the lay-by at 90mph. The only way to make it safe would be to move the 'parking' area 20M back from the road, and add a bend to the entrance.

tonc76

daveharnett wrote: »

I can see a point to them. They are marginally safer than the hard shoulder for:

• Gardai pulling cars over
• Car/bladder trouble
• Urgent need of rest

That being said, they desperately need more visability, marked slip lanes, and they need to be signposted well in advance (like a normal interchange/service area). I presume the latter is unique the new M7, where these things appear out of nowhere with no notice at all?

I would also point out that I have seen these laybys closed from time to time, by means of a steel barrier which has no lighting or reflective material :eek:

So, how long until a group of travelers moves into one of these?

As far as I know all lay bys are preceded by "Lay By 500m" signs. If not they are supposed to be!

I also think some people are confusing customs areas for lay bys. Customs areas are the ones with barriers across the entrance and exit and are only used for customs checks i.e tank dipping etc.

I think the use of a concrete barrier along the length of the lay by for protection would not solve anything as the end of the barrier would pose a greater hazard to mainline motorists.

csd

I think I'd still prefer a concrete barrier than the reflective posts currently used.

Here's the parking area on the M9's northern section. Note the three missing bollards - I wonder how they came to be removed...

Amtmann

csd wrote: »

I think I'd still prefer a concrete barrier than the reflective posts currently used.

Here's the parking area on the M9's northern section. Note the three missing bollards - I wonder how they came to be removed...

That looks desperate. One problem is that people intending to park in the layby will come to a halt as soon as they can, which means incoming cars could rear end them at high speed. The danger to children (who might be fascinated by a brightly coloured bollards) is also an issue.

I note that two county council bins have been installed in the service area on the M8 just south of junction six by the way.

csd

Furet wrote: »

I note that two county council bins have been installed in the service area on the M8 just south of junction six by the way.

Interesting. The NRA told me that litter bins would not be provided in these parking areas because people weren't supposed to leave their cars...

/csd

daveharnett

csd wrote: »

Interesting. The NRA told me that litter bins would not be provided in these parking areas because people weren't supposed to leave their cars...

/csd

Interesting indeed. TBH if I needed to stop in one of these, I'd be getting out of the car and away from the road asap.