Gun parts?

bruce264

Hi all, can anyone tell me the law on buying a gun stock, hoping to get a rifle soon and was thinking on upgrading it, and have been looking at a few sites in england but most wont deliver, so i presume you need a licence before you can buy a stock or other parts?

Tackleberrywho

bruce264 wrote: »

Hi all, can anyone tell me the law on buying a gun stock, hoping to get a rifle soon and was thinking on upgrading it, and have been looking at a few sites in england but most wont deliver, so i presume you need a licence before you can buy a stock or other parts?

You do not need a licence for a stock. Anypart of the firearm that has a serial number is the norm for a licence, Bolt, action barrell......
Now you can get your rifle customised in this country if a guy in Westmeath is the best in the country IMHO as a person who studied engineering i find his work top class
http://www.irelandcustomrifle.com/
Click on the link and shoot him a mail, Tell Him Tackleberrywho sent ya! He'll know who I am.

I've just reread your post. Why would you buy a rifle and upgrade it straight away?
Just by a second hand custom rifle off a dealer if you want a custom rifle.
What rifle were you looking at?
And what do you intend to shoot?
You can buy a factory rifle that will shoot well, Customisation is normally the relm of the experienced who want to improve them selves, shoot better groups etc.
So what is your aim and I might be able to help more if i can?

If you want to know what you can and can't import go on the DOJ website and read FAQ in regards to firearms

kowloon

I was under the impression that, to the letter of the law, even importing a sling was breaking the law.
I know they wouldn't look kindly on someone importing a pistol grip stock for instance.

Tackleberrywho

bruce264 wrote: »

Hi all, can anyone tell me the law on buying a gun stock, hoping to get a rifle soon and was thinking on upgrading it, and have been looking at a few sites in england but most wont deliver, so i presume you need a licence before you can buy a stock or other parts?

Ask your local Gardaí either, the are normally decent chaps and usually friendly. Tell them the story of what you are proposing doing and see what they say.

You seem to be in Donegal ask your local Firearms officers about getting an importation licence etc.

They can fill you in better.
As I said DOJ; you can apply for an importation licence for a firearm or parts.

dCorbus

importing a sling was breaking the law

:eek::eek::eek:
Where'd you get that impression?

I know they wouldn't look kindly on someone importing a pistol grip stock for instance

Restrictions on importation of stocks? Hadn't heard about that either.

Now, I really don't know the exact ins-and-outs of this legal stuff....but what you've stated does seem incorrect to me (from the limited amount I do know) - HOWEVER, I may be entirely wrong and will welcome swift and severe correction on this....but, maybe those far more genned up on the legislation can set us straight one way or the other?:D

Cass

kowloon wrote: »

I was under the impression that, to the letter of the law, even importing a sling was breaking the law.

How so?
Once it is not a componant part of the firearm (as Tackleberrywho discribed, bolt, action, etc) it does not require a license. Some countries have their own regulations regarding exports and i know England has a policy with exporting stocks (some might do, most don't).

You can legally import any other item once you pay the necessary customs, excise, VAT, etc that is required or that applies to the item. If importing from within the EU this is not necessary (AFAIK) however outside the EU all items are subject to the above mentioned fees.

I know they wouldn't look kindly on someone importing a pistol grip stock for instance.

That is different to other items. You can import them all, once you have the necessary license. As pistol/folding stocks fall under a different categorisation under the new licening system it is the importers/buyers onus to report this to the Gardai and to have the appropriate license to suit. If it was a standard rifle stock (including cheek riser, non-folding stock and butt plate) then these are perfectly acceptable and require no alteration to a standard firearms license to own/have.

Feel free to correct me those more in tune with the exact nature of the law.

vixdname

I bought a remington 700 and a year later upgraded the stock to an accuracy international chassis system stock.
I got the stock, a ten round mag and biathlon sling all from "sporting services", google them and talk to Graeme.
They're great to deal with and once you've paid using your credit card they send the merchandise straight away.
I ordered the stock on a Friday and it arrived by courier on Wednesday..very fast.
AFAIK its not illegal to import stock etc.
Here below is a pic of my upgraded remington 700 with the stock I imported and the 10 round mag.

kowloon

It was in a thread a good while back that any part of a firearm was considered a firearm. Obviously nobody would get in trouble for importing a sling. The issue came up over people collecting empty cases. Would it really surprise people, considering how insane our laws are?
I wouldn't worry about it anyway, it was one of these 'in theory' discussions, nothing that actually affects anyone.

Sparks will know the ins and outs of this.

Edit: I've bought a new stock online no hassle through ebay

kowloon

vixdname wrote: »

Here below is a pic of my upgraded remington 700 with the stock I imported and the 10 round mag.

Looks the business.

dCorbus

yep, kowloon, i remember that discussion.

any part of a firearm was considered a firearm

I think the important distinction was that it had to be an essential component of the firearm, i.e. a part intrinsic to its operation. Again, can't remember where i saw that, and i'll stand corrected.

now, wheres sparks when you need him?!;)

Tackleberrywho

kowloon wrote: »

It was in a thread a good while back that any part of a firearm was considered a firearm. Obviously nobody would get in trouble for importing a sling. The issue came up over people collecting empty cases. Would it really surprise people, considering how insane our laws are?
I wouldn't worry about it anyway, it was one of these 'in theory' discussions, nothing that actually affects anyone.

Sparks will know the ins and outs of this.

Serial numbered items are the Licenced parts, the firearms cert is for the certed firearm and the ammo.

ammo is also serialized.

Therefore AFAIK stocks do not fall under this umbrella.

If any of you guys have time to read

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Firearms_ammunition_legislation

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

yep, kowloon, i remember that discussion.



I think the important distinction was that it had to be an essential component of the firearm, i.e. a part intrinsic to its operation. Again, can't remember where i saw that, and i'll stand corrected.

now, wheres sparks when you need him?!;)

B. Any essential component of such firearms:
The breach-closing mechanism, the chamber and the barrel of a firearm which, being separate objects, are included in the category of the firearms on which they are or are intended to be mounted

EU DIRECTIVE

dCorbus

thanks, tack - that's where i read it!
i know....i need to get out more!:D

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

thanks, tack - that's where i read it!
i know....i need to get out more!:D

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31991L0477:EN:HTML

So do I
Since i started a college course last sept i spend more time on boards and less shooting:(

Oh roll on the summer when I get back to just working and having several days a week shooting!

Sparks

dCorbus wrote: »

now, wheres sparks when you need him?!;)

Been sick for the last week or so, and the hamster's not quite back up to full speed yet.

Answer is: yes, to the absolute letter of the law, it's any component part, and a stock qualifies. So does an allen bolt though (all it's missing is the barrel, action, trigger, stock and bolt and it'd be a firearm!). In practical terms, importing a stock rarely raises an eyebrow as it's inert. However, the law here is basicly like juggling with chainsaws - if anything goes wrong you just want to drop everything and step back very sharply

(the EU directive and the national law on this stuff is meant to be equal, but it's messy - and in general, if you try to argue that the stock's not essential... well, the argument's a tough one).

dCorbus

and there he is......:D

thanks sparks for clarifying that - even if it doesn't back up what i said!;) I stand corrected!:)

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Been sick for the last week or so, and the hamster's not quite back up to full speed yet.

Answer is: yes, to the absolute letter of the law, it's any component part, and a stock qualifies. So does an allen bolt though (all it's missing is the barrel, action, trigger, stock and bolt and it'd be a firearm!). In practical terms, importing a stock rarely raises an eyebrow as it's inert. However, the law here is basicly like juggling with chainsaws - if anything goes wrong you just want to drop everything and step back very sharply

(the EU directive and the national law on this stuff is meant to be equal, but it's messy - and in general, if you try to argue that the stock's not essential... well, the argument's a tough one).

EU law is more relevant on imports exports
A stock is not classed as a component in Ireland.
A rifle can be fired without one, Not safely but it could be done from an engineering perspective.

The a stock can not make the rifle more powerful or change the functioning of it.
eg, if you ever picked up a Military rifle the serial numbered items can not be imported , a steyr AUG stock does not have a serial number for example.
The reason being is that without the mechanism it is useless. Thye stock can be bought but the bolt or any part of the gunlock group can not or the barrel.

The gun locking mechanism and barrel are the gun, the rest are for adjustment or benefit but are non essential. a screwdriver could engage the action.

A Folding stock however is restricted under SI2009

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A Folding stock however is restricted under SI2009

Only shotguns with folding stocks are restricted. Rifles are not subject to this restriction.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A stock is not classed as a component in Ireland.

Except that under the letter of the law, it can be. From section one's definition of a firearm:

“firearm” means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,
(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,
(c) a crossbow,
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,
(e) a prohibited weapon,
(f) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or projectile or of causing a shock or other disablement, as the case may be,
(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
...

It's the fact that (g) says "any component part" rather than "any essential part" that get us. (f) is better worded, but (g) trumps it unfortunately.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Only shotguns with folding stocks are restricted. Rifles are not subject to this restriction.

I have been informed that an AICS folding is restricted when i was considering purchasing.
Same to a Ruger 10/22 folding stock.

But I am open to this as the Guy who told me is a firearms expert but not in the DOJ so I will hold out until I can find it.

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I have been informed that an AICS folding is restricted when i was considering purchasing.
Same to a Ruger 10/22 folding stock.

But I am open to this as the Guy who told me is a firearms expert but not in the DOJ so I will hold out until I can find it.

The SI refers to shotguns with telescoping or folding stocks, not rifles. So if you're putting it on a shotgun, yeah, it's bad juju. On a rifle, it's fine.

tommyboy26

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I have been informed that an AICS folding is restricted when i was considering purchasing.
Same to a Ruger 10/22 folding stock.

But I am open to this as the Guy who told me is a firearms expert but not in the DOJ so I will hold out until I can find it.

was considering buying the aics folding stock from sporting services in the uk and was told there was no problem shipping it here..


tommy

Tackleberrywho

tommyboy26 wrote: »

was considering buying the aics folding stock from sporting services in the uk and was told there was no problem shipping it here..


tommy

Look I am not a legal person. I believe you are ok bringing in an AICS but I would go for the non folding stock just to be sure. but as I said i don't know!

I'd love an AICS but i can't afford one. My Karsten cheek riser for €57 will do me for now. Timney trigger next and then maybe a camo spray paint or a Figgy Wolfman spray job

BELOWaverageIQ

tommyboy26 wrote: »

was considering buying the aics folding stock from sporting services in the uk and was told there was no problem shipping it here..


tommy

I have a stage2 folding AICS that was imported from Sporting services without any difficulty.

Tackleberrywho

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

I have a stage2 folding AICS that was imported from Sporting services without any difficulty.

How much did it cost? and was it the green one?

I like the green one:D
Some day I will fashion my own stock!

BELOWaverageIQ

http://www.sportingservices.co.uk/aics.asp

no, black one.
Cost £700 roughly

Tackleberrywho

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

http://www.sportingservices.co.uk/aics.asp

no, black one.
Cost £700 roughly

What improvement did it give to accuracy?
T'is a lot of shillins and weight to add to a rifle.

My rifle as is 1stone with bi-pod mod and scope attached, as I bring it hunting vermin I notice that I am carrying it !

Grizzly 45

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Only shotguns with folding stocks are restricted. Rifles are not subject to this restriction.

Read the Garda guidelines[AKA the unoffical LAW of Ireland,or whatever you are having yourself law for Garda CS:rolleyes::rolleyes:].States a bit about rifles with folding or telescopic stocks being not very accuruate and not suitablein general.That will be a BIG shock to all the elite police and military units in the World who use tactical police and sniper rifles based on the Accruacy Intl, or Plaster stocks.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Read the Garda guidelines[AKA the unoffical LAW of Ireland,or whatever you are having yourself law for Garda CS:rolleyes::rolleyes:].States a bit about rifles with folding or telescopic stocks being not very accuruate and not suitablein general.That will be a BIG shock to all the elite police and military units in the World who use tactical police and sniper rifles based on the Accruacy Intl, or Plaster stocks.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Guidelines are that, a little help. Rules are different.

So a guideline would be folding rifle stock's are ok according to the garda guidelines?;)
F'all of us can afford them anyway!

It wasn't me!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Read the Garda guidelines[AKA the unoffical LAW of Ireland,or whatever you are having yourself law for Garda CS:rolleyes::rolleyes:].States a bit about rifles with folding or telescopic stocks being not very accuruate and not suitablein general.That will be a BIG shock to all the elite police and military units in the World who use tactical police and sniper rifles based on the Accruacy Intl, or Plaster stocks.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not very accurate, eh?

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Not very accurate, eh?

That's actually why it's only folding/telescoping shotgun stocks that are restricted - the original draft said any firearm. Which would have put every ISSF rifle (air, smallbore and fullbore) on the restricted list. The NTSA met the DoJ (this was back before the FCP was set up) and it was changed for the stuff the NTSA could speak for. Not sure why it wasn't changed for shotguns, my guess is noone said anything.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

That's actually why it's only folding/telescoping shotgun stocks that are restricted - the original draft said any firearm. Which would have put every ISSF rifle (air, smallbore and fullbore) on the restricted list. The NTSA met the DoJ (this was back before the FCP was set up) and it was changed for the stuff the NTSA could speak for. Not sure why it wasn't changed for shotguns, my guess is noone said anything.

So I can Get a fancy smancy stock after all!
Or maybe i will get one made for me?
Maybe Irelandcustomrifles will make me a stock:D

ani_mal

so tell me this, I ordered a lee enfield stock for my husband for Xmas gift and yesterday we got letter from customs saying he MUST provide a gun licence, otherwise they will not reliease it.

should I provide the licence to them? its too much of information they want.

Cass

ani_mal wrote: »

should I provide the licence to them? its too much of information they want.

Without reading back through the thread a gun stock is a componant part of a firearm and whether other places send them without a license or not is besides the point.

Upon entry the customs can and will hold onto parts until either a vaild/in date license is produced and/or the appropriate fee for taxes and excise is paid.

The other bit of bad news is you cannot provide the license on your husbands behalf. He will have to make an appearance. What you could do is tell him you need him to accompany you, get him to show the licence and ask thecustoms official if he can keep the contents of the parcel a secret from your husband as its a gift.

I don't know how probable that is to happen or how they will view this, but there is no harm in asking and with your husband presnt they will probably use common sense and realise its all above board.

Sorry i cannot give better news.

ani_mal

thank you for reply. I was confused reading all of it.
I eventually rang them and informed them I can't travel from co.Meath to co. Laois to show his licence, so they agreed to get it by fax.

loads of hassle, if I knew I would never order it.

thank you for you help.

deerhunter1

kowloon wrote: »

I was under the impression that, to the letter of the law, even importing a sling was breaking the law.
I know they wouldn't look kindly on someone importing a pistol grip stock for instance.

No it is not, just some companies refuse or are too windy to send them:mad:

ani_mal

we don't have problem ordering from www.atigunstocks.com on the web they say thry don't post outside US but after a phone call they agreed as long as you use credit card.
Very Nice customer service, and when you ask them to put it on the letter/package gift with low value there is not a problem