Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Tox56

This will be interesting for Penney, presumably he will be forced by Kidney to play Earls at 13 where possible now ahead of Laulala.

AmbyJ

Well hopefully Kidney wont be around much longer and we will get an unbiased coach with a few decent game plans.

irishbucsfan

Clementine Helpless Scalpel wrote: »

Fitzgerald had a similar article about playing full back before.

Part of what makes Keith a fantastic winger is what makes him a poor 13. He's supposed to be selfish and cocky.

I'll admit that he's improved pretty well in the defensive positioning aspect of the jersey, but he hasn't got the hands that a 13 should have. O'Malley, Cave and Griffin have all shown far brighter creativity (but less impressive finishing) than Earls over the past season.

For me, you're asking one of your best strikers to play in a creative midfield role. He may enjoy the additional freedom, time and options that are now open to him in this role, but it does not play to his instinctive strengths.

Not every great 13 has to play the same way in attack. Especially with the players we have available to us, with young flyhalves capable of turning the corner, which we havent had in the professional era.

I completely disagree that Earls is a poor 13, as you say. In fact I think he's a very good 13.

The best part is that he has all the fundamentals there. He has great pace, he is quite powerful too, deceptively so. His defense has been excellent. All he needs is to be surer in his passing, which is absolutely something he can work on.

The thing I like most about Earls is his work ethic. In 2010 he was atrocious on the wing, probably Ireland's worst player apart from TOL that year. He was manshamed under the posts against France. In 2011 he came back and was a completely different player, actually he could well have been our best player. He was coming out of the line at brilliantly judged times and really throwing his weight around. He has repeated that transformation again at 13. Its extremely encouraging.

I don't think O'Malley will ever be a regular international. Or even a regular H Cup starter... I'd love to see Cave get a chance. There are other young centers who could be better than both.

I hope Penney comes up and challenges Earls to beat out Laulala on his own merits and not because of Declans interference.

With Earls at 13, we don't utilise our wingers. He doesn't pose a passing threat, only a running threat.

He is also the most predictable runner in midfield that I have ever seen. When he's on the wing, and there's space for him to exploit, he's lethal. In midfield, he checks inside 99.999% of the time. I've noticed it, and I'm only an armchair fan. His natural inclination is always to check inside, on every play.

If you have a player at 13 that steps inside every time, and doesn't have a creative output, (stripping you of a winger everytime), you become an incredibly narrow team.

phog

Quinny on Penney

FROM THE BLINDSIDE: Once the new Munster coach has Foley pulling for him the rest will follow. There can’t be any divide because players will pick up on it

IN THE middle of reading about Munster’s new coach Rob Penney the other day, I noticed an odd little fact. Both his current club Canterbury and his soon-to-be new one Munster were founded in the same year, 1879. That’s 133 years apiece of new faces and old faces, victories and defeats, fights and make-ups, all leading to where we will be in two months’ time with a guy travelling half the planet to leave one club for the other.

There’s a lot of history behind all of us.

Full article here.

irishbucsfan

Clementine Helpless Scalpel wrote: »

With Earls at 13, we don't utilise our wingers. He doesn't pose a passing threat, only a running threat.

He is also the most predictable runner in midfield that I have ever seen. When he's on the wing, and there's space for him to exploit, he's lethal. In midfield, he checks inside 99.999% of the time. I've noticed it, and I'm only an armchair fan. His natural inclination is always to check inside, on every play.

If you have a player at 13 that steps inside every time, and doesn't have a creative output, (stripping you of a winger everytime), you become an incredibly narrow team.

When Murray was on he was getting terrible service from Sexton. If you have to slow or check your run to take the ball you really have no choice but to attack the inside shoulder. Also playing outside that D'Arcy doesn't exactly present you with much quality ball.

We didn't utilise our back 3 because of how bad our half backs were for the majority if most games. No 13 in the world could magic them into play.

He does need to work on his passing, however to blame him for not bringing the wingers into play is completely unfair given what was going on inside him.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When Murray was on he was getting terrible service from Sexton. If you have to slow or check your run to take the ball you really have no choice but to attack the inside shoulder. Also playing outside that D'Arcy doesn't exactly present you with much quality ball.

We didn't utilise our back 3 because of how bad our half backs were for the majority if most games. No 13 in the world could magic them into play.

He does need to work on his passing, however to blame him for not bringing the wingers into play is completely unfair given what was going on inside him.

I'm not talking about Earls in green. I'm talking about him as a player.

I'm not blaming him for not bringing wingers into the game. Much in the way that Paddy Wallace is incredible at bringing wingers into a game even from 12, and D'Arcy literally can't do that, Earls is not a creative outlet at 13. In green, red or even that luminous yellow/black jersey that was Munster's for a couple of seasons.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think O'Malley will ever be a regular international. Or even a regular H Cup starter... I'd love to see Cave get a chance. There are other young centers who could be better than both.

I disagree on EOM, every time he has had to step up he has impressed me, whether that be HEC against Clermot, those 2 HEC tries v Glasgow in the absence of BOD, or the assured defence and the intelligent creation of Kearney's try for the Wolfhounds.

Like Earls, he needed to work on his defence, especially after the game v Bath, and, like Earls, he has. His technique has improved since, cultimating with the dump on Banahan in the Wolfhounds who caused him all trouble in the Bath game.

I clearly rate him, and he isn't getting much gametime now with BOD back, but I see him as BOD's Leinster successor, and as a result potentially for Ireland too.

AmbyJ

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When Murray was on he was getting terrible service from Sexton. If you have to slow or check your run to take the ball you really have no choice but to attack the inside shoulder. Also playing outside that D'Arcy doesn't exactly present you with much quality ball.

We didn't utilise our back 3 because of how bad our half backs were for the majority if most games. No 13 in the world could magic them into play.

He does need to work on his passing, however to blame him for not bringing the wingers into play is completely unfair given what was going on inside him.

BOD seems to have managed ok outside Darcy for the last 10 years or so. Hows that?

AmbyJ

AmbyJ wrote: »

BOD seems to have managed ok outside Darcy for the last 10 years or so. Hows that?

because he's probably one of the best and most natural 13s in the game. Earls is a completely different player and D'Arcy hasn't exactly been electric in recent times in an Irish Jersey.

totallegend

Tox56 wrote: »

This will be interesting for Penney, presumably he will be forced by Kidney to play Earls at 13 where possible now ahead of Laulala.

Is this accurate? Like, I've heard mention of this sort of thing before (Gerry Thornley reckons it's why Kearney is keeping Nacewa on the wing) but does it actually happen?

thomond2006

For all the talk about Earls at 13 or the wing, don't forget that Howlett will back next year and is a certain starter. So if Penney decides that Downey and Laulala are his first choice centres, Earls will play left wing with Zebo and Murphy dropping out of the starting lineup. Unless they try Dougie at fullback, which McGahan did early in his tenure.

ed7890

Putting the international stuff aside for a minute, I'm quite happy for Earls to want to stay in the center for Munster. I think he's been great there this season. One of our big problems is that we're too lateral in our backs play, going across the field with nothing happening, nobody creating space. Earls has been getting us running more direct, he's been great at sticking his man, and then passing the ball outside. He improved this straight away when he came on at the weekend.

Monty Burnz

Tox56 wrote: »

I disagree on EOM, every time he has had to step up he has impressed me, whether that be HEC against Clermot, those 2 HEC tries v Glasgow in the absence of BOD, or the assured defence and the intelligent creation of Kearney's try for the Wolfhounds.

I think EOM is just too small for the modern game. He'd have been a great player 20 years ago.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I'm delighted to see Earls come out and say he wants to play at 13. The constant switching from centre to wing and back is detrimental to his form. He isn't a naturally big man and the constant bulking up and down for the needs of the various positions, leads to him being below his best in both jerseys.

Just from my experiences of being in school with him, I can tell you that he is an extremely dedicated person. The evidence of this hard work is plain to see for anyone who has watched him over the course of the season. His defense has come on leagues and the improvement in his passing/offloading is very encouraging too. He has achieved all of this despite the level of back's coaching he is receiving at both provincial and international level. With the appointment of a new back's coach at Munster, hopefully this improvement will continue.

CIARAN_BOYLE

totallegend wrote: »

Is this accurate? Like, I've heard mention of this sort of thing before (Gerry Thornley reckons it's why Kearney is keeping Nacewa on the wing) but does it actually happen?

If someone needs gametime in a position Kidney will call up the coach (a few months in advance) and say give Wallace two games at 10 before the six nations, give Court 2 games at TH before the WC.

He doesn't make broad decisions that effect a season for the provinces.

Nacewa is being kept on the wing because he is a very good winger and Kearney is a very good fullback. Leinster don't have another winger as good as Nacewa while Kearney has proved his quality at fullback this season.

Tox56

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

I disagree on EOM, every time he has had to step up he has impressed me, whether that be HEC against Clermot, those 2 HEC tries v Glasgow in the absence of BOD, or the assured defence and the intelligent creation of Kearney's try for the Wolfhounds.

I think EOM is just too small for the modern game. He'd have been a great player 20 years ago.

He doesn't weigh much less than BOD and is the same height, 5'10 is perfectly big enough.

Monty Burnz

Tox56 wrote: »

He doesn't weigh much less than BOD and is the same height, 5'10 is perfectly big enough.

He's not big enough. BOD is a freak (and over a stone heavier), D'Arcy too. Look at the way the game is going the last ten years and it's become an arms race in the centre where bigger is better - better for battering through defences, and better for offloading. I wish it were otherwise.

Monty Burnz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

He's not big enough. BOD is a freak (and over a stone heavier), D'Arcy too. Look at the way the game is going the last ten years and it's become an arms race in the centre where bigger is better - better for battering through defences, and better for offloading. I wish it were otherwise.

it's a swings and roundabouts thing. The Paddy Wallace / Fofana style players will rise again!

Monty Burnz

Deleted User wrote: »

it's a swings and roundabouts thing. The Paddy Wallace / Fofana style players will rise again!

I hope so. It would be a shame if the game became too power-oriented and skilled players like O'Malley couldn't cut it at the top.

Tox56

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

He doesn't weigh much less than BOD and is the same height, 5'10 is perfectly big enough.

He's not big enough. BOD is a freak (and over a stone heavier), D'Arcy too. Look at the way the game is going the last ten years and it's become an arms race in the centre where bigger is better - better for battering through defences, and better for offloading. I wish it were otherwise.

He has bulked up over the last few months, and I'm confident he is no longer less than 14st as the Leinster site claims. Even taking that at face value, Earls is 1 inch taller and a few kg heavier, if EOM isn't big enough neither is Earls.

Wesley Fofana was one of the players of the 6N at supposedly 5'10 and 88kg.

His size is not something I am concerned about.

Monty Burnz

Tox56 wrote: »

if EOM isn't big enough neither is Earls.

Yup.

profitius

There is room for smaller players but they have to be highly talented. Shane Williams, Stringer, Fofana etc. Chris Paterson had successful career too and look at ROG.

Physically comparing BOD to EOM is like comparing an Audi TT to a Ford Ka. They're both small but in terms of power...

Tox56

I think Earls (and Fofana) pretty conclusively proved size wasn't an issue in the 6N, his awareness/distribution etc. could be issues, but his size isn't. Not all centres nowadays have to be bosh merchants.

AmbyJ

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think EOM is just too small for the modern game. He'd have been a great player 20 years ago.

Tell that to Conrad Smith, BOD, Shane Williams and Jason Robinson!

Teferi

If Earls wants to stay at centre I'm happy for him and I hope he proves me wrong in coming seasons but I don't really think he has done more than a job in that position. On the wing he is incredible but his natural talents and game are wasted at centre.

It's exactly like the Fitz issue. He sees himself as a fullback when he clearly isn't.

They both have elements of their game that fit fullback and centre respectively but the majority of their natural talents lie elsewhere on the field.

Monty Burnz

AmbyJ wrote: »

Tell that to Conrad Smith, BOD, Shane Williams and Jason Robinson!

BOD started in a different era, as did Williams and Robinson (who weren't even centres) and both are retired. Smith isn't exactly a midget at 6'1 and 15 stone - and even he is considered unusually small these days.

You can cite the odd smaller player but it doesn't invalidate the argument that there has been a marked trend towards bigger, taller players in the centre.

jm08

Teferi wrote: »

If Earls wants to stay at centre I'm happy for him and I hope he proves me wrong in coming seasons but I don't really think he has done more than a job in that position. On the wing he is incredible but his natural talents and game are wasted at centre.

It's exactly like the Fitz issue. He sees himself as a fullback when he clearly isn't.

They both have elements of their game that fit fullback and centre respectively but the majority of their natural talents lie elsewhere on the field.

Just because it didn't work out for Luke as a fullback, doesn't mean it won't work out for anyone else who say what position they want to play in. It was a bad time for Luke to be tried out there as he was coming back from an injury and was clearly lacking confidence. Perhaps if he was at a club where he could have got more gametime at fullback, it might have worked out that way for him, but with Kearney & Nacewa about, it would have been difficult at Leinster.

Its worth noting that Fofana & Conrad Smith generally have big, strong centre partners who can break the gainline regularly - which Ireland doesn't have.

Tox56

So who do we put at 13? I want Cave to be given a shot, but Earls is the other alternative and is he too small to play? I don't think so, and consequently don't think EOM is either.

Monty Burnz

Tox56 wrote: »

So who do we put at 13? I want Cave to be given a shot, but Earls is the other alternative and is he too small to play? I don't think so, and consequently don't think EOM is either.

He's clearly not too small 'to play'... :rolleyes: