ROEDALE PRECISION

tommyboy26

anyone ever bought anything from this website www.roedale.de like the look of the RCS2.



tommy

jwshooter

i have a few english friends that have had work done with them .in a word " Disaster "

ejg

In the Uk there was a lot of bashing going on, mainly to divert business to others.
Pete Lincoln is a brilliant gunsmith and is designing very good kit since a while. He might not be the best sales man though.
One thing is for sure, every thing he builds is made to withstand hard abuse.
Best is to send an e-mail to Geoff, he'll respond better.
If needs be, I could possibly also help.

edi

murph226

jwshooter wrote: »

i have a few english friends that have had work done with them .in a word " Disaster "

please elaborate?

johngalway

If you enjoy frustration, go for it.

Otherwise, stay away.

murph226

please explain lads, is it the long wait that is offputting or is it the quality of the work?

johngalway

Exceptionally long delays in builds, extremely poor communication with customers. That was the situation last time I checked them out via customer reports. The situation may have changed since then, I wouldn't risk my money there personally.

Als76

Hi tommy boy, i bought a Robertson T3 and it was delivered in time. Make sure you get a tracking number.

murph226

Robertson T3

jwshooter

robertson make stocks for tikka T3s .

dont know of a builder in that name

murph226

cheers JW, just fond them there!

I dunno, for that money I'd have to go for the Roedale RCS!

roedale

Hi fellas.
yes we had some problems in the past and I'm the first to admit that things didn't go to plan.
I started the riflesmithing business 5 years ago as a part time venture. At the time i was also working in mission control for the European Space Agency. The ESA job was 300miles away from home and workshop, which was fine for a start as we had 7 days on 7 days off.
Things went wrong at a point for a couple of reasons,
1. I was let down by mcmillan stocks on a delivery due to thier fullfilling a large millitary contract.
2. My then action supplier got seriously ill with cancer
3.My wife became ill
4. My ESA team was cut from 12 to 6 and days off from 7 to 3.

Something had to give. and it did. As Edi said, some of the "competition" and their lap dogs used the situation to good advantage and i got a shed load of bad press.

2 1/2 years ago i went full time. did things improve. well no for a start, not realy. We got ripped of by the builder who was supposed to build the new workshop, we had to chase him for the money back, and instead of machining barrels i was brick laying. Finaly got the workshop done and moved in in December 2008.
We got about 9 months of hassle free work and things where looking bright, when my Dad was diagnosed with cancer of the oesophagus. Dad cared for Mum ( Mum has alzheimers) so i did try and get back to East Yorkshire as much as i could, given the diagnosis. Dad had a stroke in December and unfortunately passed away in February this year. Mum is now well cared for in a home.

As you can imagine the last 5 years have been a right bitch.
But. Despite all the setbacks, Ive managed to produce a steady stream of high quality custom rifles, ( between 70 and 100 per year) Ive taken on 3 staff, and in the last 18months we've brought many new, own design products onto the market. including the RCS, Howa Mag systems, muzzle brakes and our own moderator. We exhibited at the 2009 and 2010 IWA. Of course, as for any retailer and riflesmith supply of parts is a real challenge ( you guys know how difficult the export from the USA has become i am sure) but we work hard to fill the gaps with our own designs. and I personaly think that we have achieved a hell of a lot when one considers the setbacks we've been dealt.
It would be great if prospective customers can see beyond the hard times in the past and give us a chance to prove what we can do.

Yours respectfully. Pete Lincoln

ronboy

roedale wrote: »

Hi fellas.
yes we had some problems in the past and I'm the first to admit that things didn't go to plan.
I started the riflesmithing business 5 years ago as a part time venture. At the time i was also working in mission control for the European Space Agency. The ESA job was 300miles away from home and workshop, which was fine for a start as we had 7 days on 7 days off.
Things went wrong at a point for a couple of reasons,
1. I was let down by mcmillan stocks on a delivery due to thier fullfilling a large millitary contract.
2. My then action supplier got seriously ill with cancer
3.My wife became ill
4. My ESA team was cut from 12 to 6 and days off from 7 to 3.

Something had to give. and it did. As Edi said, some of the "competition" and their lap dogs used the situation to good advantage and i got a shed load of bad press.

2 1/2 years ago i went full time. did things improve. well no for a start, not realy. We got ripped of by the builder who was supposed to build the new workshop, we had to chase him for the money back, and instead of machining barrels i was brick laying. Finaly got the workshop done and moved in in December 2008.
We got about 9 months of hassle free work and things where looking bright, when my Dad was diagnosed with cancer of the oesophagus. Dad cared for Mum ( Mum has alzheimers) so i did try and get back to East Yorkshire as much as i could, given the diagnosis. Dad had a stroke in December and unfortunately passed away in February this year. Mum is now well cared for in a home.

As you can imagine the last 5 years have been a right bitch.
But. Despite all the setbacks, Ive managed to produce a steady stream of high quality custom rifles, ( between 70 and 100 per year) Ive taken on 3 staff, and in the last 18months we've brought many new, own design products onto the market. including the RCS, Howa Mag systems, muzzle brakes and our own moderator. We exhibited at the 2009 and 2010 IWA. Of course, as for any retailer and riflesmith supply of parts is a real challenge ( you guys know how difficult the export from the USA has become i am sure) but we work hard to fill the gaps with our own designs. and I personaly think that we have achieved a hell of a lot when one considers the setbacks we've been dealt.
It would be great if prospective customers can see beyond the hard times in the past and give us a chance to prove what we can do.

Yours respectfully. Pete Lincoln

"and we're all entitled to a secound chance.."

It wasn't me!

roedale wrote: »

Hi fellas.
yes we had some problems in the past and I'm the first to admit that things didn't go to plan.
I started the riflesmithing business 5 years ago as a part time venture. At the time i was also working in mission control for the European Space Agency. The ESA job was 300miles away from home and workshop, which was fine for a start as we had 7 days on 7 days off.
Things went wrong at a point for a couple of reasons,
1. I was let down by mcmillan stocks on a delivery due to thier fullfilling a large millitary contract.
2. My then action supplier got seriously ill with cancer
3.My wife became ill
4. My ESA team was cut from 12 to 6 and days off from 7 to 3.

Something had to give. and it did. As Edi said, some of the "competition" and their lap dogs used the situation to good advantage and i got a shed load of bad press.

2 1/2 years ago i went full time. did things improve. well no for a start, not realy. We got ripped of by the builder who was supposed to build the new workshop, we had to chase him for the money back, and instead of machining barrels i was brick laying. Finaly got the workshop done and moved in in December 2008.
We got about 9 months of hassle free work and things where looking bright, when my Dad was diagnosed with cancer of the oesophagus. Dad cared for Mum ( Mum has alzheimers) so i did try and get back to East Yorkshire as much as i could, given the diagnosis. Dad had a stroke in December and unfortunately passed away in February this year. Mum is now well cared for in a home.

As you can imagine the last 5 years have been a right bitch.
But. Despite all the setbacks, Ive managed to produce a steady stream of high quality custom rifles, ( between 70 and 100 per year) Ive taken on 3 staff, and in the last 18months we've brought many new, own design products onto the market. including the RCS, Howa Mag systems, muzzle brakes and our own moderator. We exhibited at the 2009 and 2010 IWA. Of course, as for any retailer and riflesmith supply of parts is a real challenge ( you guys know how difficult the export from the USA has become i am sure) but we work hard to fill the gaps with our own designs. and I personaly think that we have achieved a hell of a lot when one considers the setbacks we've been dealt.
It would be great if prospective customers can see beyond the hard times in the past and give us a chance to prove what we can do.

Yours respectfully. Pete Lincoln

That sort of candour is rare. The very best of luck with your business.

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The very best of luck with your business.

My sentiments exactly

shooter1968

Hello, I would like to comment my experience with Roedale Precision:


I entrusted a rifle to Pete in October, 2008, that is, 18 months ago. I paid in advance 100 % of its value, and a rifle full-custom is not precisely cheap.


Since then, Pete has gone narrating, in successive episodes, exactly the problems that are described in the forum.


I believe that waiting 18 months is too much: I think that one of 70 or 100 rifles that Pete finishes per year should have been mine!


On the other hand, I have references of other spanish shooters that have rifles from Roedale Precision, and they are all very pleased by the quality, which they consider exceptional.


Anyway, Pete has promised me that in one or two weeks I will have my rifle.


I hope that in one week it can tell in the forum first hand how Pete's rifles are. Really, after year and a half, I hope that it should be really wonderful.

roedale

I agree, 18 months is way too long. It is however around the average delivery time for a full custom, one of a kind build. some riflesmiths manage to do it quicker, (but perhaps don't have the volume, and certainly, hopefull none of the family issues and bad luck,previously mentioned) some take twice as long and charge twice as much, the customer pays his money and takes his choice, not nesseceraly in that order.
When a full custom rifle is given in commision, the choice of parts available are huge. Each and every part must be ordered individualy, or in thier component groups. Nothing can be held on shelf because it is impossible to know which parts the custom will want. This puts the riflesmith and customer at the mercy of suppliers and thats where the trouble starts.
Many component suppliers are small 1 or 2 man businesses, if a machine breaks or someone goes sick, the delivery time doubles over night. Other component suppliers are also suppliers to the military, and, as there is, believe it or not, actualy a real shooting war going on, the magnitude of which hasn't been seen since the Korean war, the military contracts always take priority, ( understandable, but also a right pain for civilian riflesmith and end customer all the same) then come the burocrats who like to throw spanners in the works, changes to export regulations, items bieng banned, items bieng put on the restricted list.
Other custom rifles are to be built on parts that dont even excist at the time of order, but are specialy designed and developed for a particular customer.
All these issues have an effect on the possible delivery time of a finnished custom rifle and can seriously stretch the waiting game.
This is the reason that custom riflesmiths do not give delivery dates on one of a kind commissions.
I have personaly waited, for example, 2 1/2 years for delivery of actions from the USA that should have been delivered in 6months, 12 months for stocks that should have been delieverd in 3 months, only to find that uppon arrival the stocks had been taken out of the mold too soon and where cracked and un usable.
It is a realy difficult job bieng a riflesmith in Europe, many of the parts come from the USA, yet we are treated as the poor cousin by the US suppliers, its not as if we can knock on the door and ask where our kit is, the home US market takes priority time and time and time again.
Customers often however compare the US prices on firearms and accessories, which are usualy much lower. Forget however that in many states there is no VAT to pay, then shipping from manufacturer to exporter costs money, the exporter takes his cut, then shipping to Europe costs money, Then we have the import taxes and VAT to add, and then some one has to travel to customs to pick items up. All that is un seen costs to the end customer.
Ive come to the conclusion that the only way to do it properly is limit the choice of available parts, manufacture as much your self or localy as is possible and rather than wait until a customer arrives with his wishes, actualy build a series or custom rifles to a very high specification and standard, that are available almost off the shelf, or at least in a limmited and garantied time frame.
When it comes to payment, the customer always has choices, those who chose to pay up front do so because they want to take advantage of the discount that is given. Usual for a one of a kind build is a 60% deposit, the rest when the job is done.
That can be done differently when a custom series is built, the advantage for the riflesmith is that all the rifles are very similar( apart from maybe individial touches like name engraving and finish) and parts can be held on shelf ready to go, he saves time by not having to chase 50 different suppliers and his payment is in far far sooner.
the advantage for the customer is that the rifle is ready much much sooner, he doesn't have to part with money for so long. he does however have a less of a choice on options.

Anyhow, I can't speak for the rest of the European riflesmiths, I can only give an insight into my experiences, but i know that they are the same experiences that most of us must endure.
I certainly absolutely am sympathetic to the waiting customers frustration, and certainly respect and value the trust that is put in me to do the job right, a custom rifle is a joint project between customer and riflesmith and would be much less hassle and stress if everything was available right now on shelf. That means a big ig warehouse and massive investment in parts though. Something that many are unwilling to commit to in the present market.
I know what i'm doing to combat the problems of delivery schedules and late deliveries from the USA and rather than see the problems as a problem i see them as an oppertunity and a challenge. This is providing jobs and business oppertunities for several companies within Germany, Eire and the UK rather than across the pond.

Thanks for reading. regards Pete

shooter1968

Hi Pete,

I knew all of the above as you allready told me in one of your mails and, just as you understand my frustration, I understand your problems. I know first hand the difficulty of buying any accessory in USA, because I buy often there, and it is getting more and more difficult.

But, when I asked you for a delivery date you told me 6 months and according to it I took my decision to acquire a Full Custom. And, moreover, if after buying the rifle, if you had informed me about the difficulty of obtaining this one or that one part, and you had given me some alternative (I am not fanatical, I believe that there is more than one first class manufacturer for almost any thing), of course I would have accepted it without thinking twice.

Anyway, if I complain about something it is that there has not been a better communication. In this year and a half I believe that I have not harassed you with e-mails. I understand that it is necessary to allow the professionals to work, and not to make them lose the time writing. But, sometimes I think it is necessary that the professional gives explanations, offers alternatives and answers request (it has been one week since I sent to you a mail asking you to change the scope rings of 34 mm. for the 30 mm some. Answer???

Best regards,
JMT

jwshooter

cant see the point of you guys doing business on hear .

roedale

jwshooter, i agree with you about doing business on here.

however the ups and downs of trying to get a custom rifle project together with parts from all over the world will certainly interest some readers i expect, and there are some folk who like to play smoke and mirrors and voodoo in the custom rifle world but i'm happy to be open and honest about the trails and tribulations involved in such a project.
So if no one minds i'd like to answer shooter1968's points. And i must say, he has been a model customer, found the right guy for the job, and got out of the way whilst its bieng done.

6 months delivery date, here we have a typical example. the actual phrase was, if i can get the parts in in 3 months the rifle will take 6 months to build. On average a rifle takes x amount of time to gather in the parts, + 3 months build time. again, both builder and end customer are absolutely at the mercy of the component manufacturer, the particulars of the export regulations in the manufacturers country, the speed of the courier company and the efficiency of the customs in the country of the builder. It is impossible to say how long a build will take untill all parts required are actualy on shelf. But to say to a customer, I've absolutely no idea at all when this rifle build can be finnished, sounds somewhat semi professional, so the only way is to make no garuanties on delivery dates, but to say, once all the parts are in, I garuantee to have the rifle ready within 3 months.
naturaly illness, family issues, machine breakages can still stretch that, but as a rough guide 3 months is about the right time frame from all the parts arriving.

Does it take 3 months to assemble a rifle. No, it doesn't. but to work efficiently, cut down on machine set up time, a riflesmith will work in batches, Remingtons this week, Howa's next week, Tikka's next. etc.
If a particular build misses bieng slotted into a rolling schedule, it will be a month or 6 weeks before it gets into the next. then one must add in the trips to the range, each rifle is approximately 5 trips to the range, the range is 1 hours travel away ( oh how i wish i could shoot in the field behind the house) of course its not economical to travel with just 1 rifle, so a batch of rifles will be range tested and have barrels run in over perhps a space of 3 weeks, depending on the appointments that are available at the range. then one needs to add around a week for proof, then one more final test. and already we are at 10 weeks. add any load developement, or no bullets on shelf and easily very easily a rifle has taken 3 months to complete.

Difficulty in obtaining parts and alternative parts. In this particular case we are talking about a surgeon action. there is no alternative that is produced out side of the USA ( well at least there wasn't untill we started to manufacture our own action, which is a direct result of bieng let down by certain action manufacturers) hence to offer an alternative would have meant exactly the same amount of wait, but just for a different action. It would also have meant me buying 2 actions to fulfill 1 job. That may sound like a reasonable thing to do in one case, and indeed i have agreed with customers to order 2 actions from 2 manufacturers and to use the 1st one that comes for thier particular build, The problem is is that all the US manufacturers want payment up front, and if one does this for lets say 70 customers, you end up buying 140 actions to complete 70 jobs, it doesn't make economic sence.

Communication, yes absolutely agree with you, we aren't great on that front at all, but we are working on it. I simply dont have the time to write back to every single email or take every single phone call. Its been a struggle as i set out on my own on this, doing everything on my own.
taking on staff was the obviouse way to go, but what use is taking some one off the dole who hasn't a clue, or a teenager just out of school. The right staff had to be found. preferable ex military, preferably shooters and hunters. It took a while, but that worked out. Tom and Geoff are both ex Military, both hunters. of course they both had to be shown the ropes, which took time.
Ive though of a way to improve communication as to status on builds, we are setting up an online status check. Customers can log in to thier build, the notes that I must make to keep track of progress. e.g. action ordered, barrel fitted.. whatever can be seen by the customer, in fact with each update done by me, the customer gets an automated info email. Likewise the customer can add commenst e.g. please change rings from 34 to 30mm. all i have to do is type ok, and click update, This system is taking a little setting up, and its not possible time wise to put excisting orders in it,
but for future orders it will save me at least 1 1/2 working days in emails and phone calls every week. which means faster turn around, and i might even get to the Legion on a friday night occasionaly.

Anyhow. hope we aren't boring anyone, maybe we can give some folk an insight into the ins and outs like i said. personaly i hate to deliever a rifle later than expected, but often it just can't be helped.
Shooter1968, if we take the rest of the business side back to the email,

maybe other folk can comment on build times with other companies,

i would be interested to know what most folk consider a reasonable waiting time for a one of a kind custom rifle, for a series production custom rifle, and comments on what can be done, in general terms to make the whole experience nicer for customer and builder.

regards to all from the middle of Germanistan.

Pete

johngalway

Jesus Pete, you've posted more column inches here with 3 posts than other have with hundreds lol

6.5x55

I have dealt with this company and I will set out my experience with dealing with them and you can make you own minds up

In May 06 I ordered a custom 6.5 from Roedale and was told 3-5months for completion ,I agreed on that basis and paid the not unsubstancial sum of 50% of agreed price .I then sat back and waited and waited ,waited .6 months passed , 12 months passed excuses,excuses,excuses,Parts ,Military contracts ect ,ect.
After 18months and more excuses I noticed on the orginal quote that the Barrel twist rate was not what we agreed ,I contacted Roedale and was told no problem Typo on their Behalf ,that the rifle would arrive with correct barrel and it was nearly ready,a further 6 months more excuses ,German Officials very slow with paper work,Couldn't get a courier to carry the rifle .It was finally delivered after I started asking questions about Roedale on an english rifle forum.I immeditately took it to my gun smith and had the barrell checked was the wrong twist rate .when I contacted Roedale it was insinuated that it was my problem when I produced the emails thay agreed it was their problem.

They requested I send the rifle back to Germany I refused and it was agreed that they would immediately replace the barrell and in lieu of paying the fitting costs would provide a free sound moderator(same cost)
it took another 13 months and 40-50 emails to finally get the new barrell delivered to Ireland .

If Roedale were the last riflesmiths on this earth i would never use them again.

Peter .I am still waiting from my sound Moderator promised 18 months ago!!!.


Caveat Emptor.

jwshooter

WTF , its not a trip to mars .its a rifle .rifle builders come out with some crap .

mine was 8 weeks getting done ,i know of the exact same job taking 8 months by another guy ,he came out with the same crap .

only take on the work you can do .to read your post your under pressure ,from all angles .no one wants that crap not you ,not your clients.

if i was a mod i would lock this thread as its going no where fast .

tommyboy26

i stated this thread as i was cosidering buying from them but after reading all of this i think i would be better off spending my money elsewhere




tommy

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

if i was a mod i would lock this thread as its going no where fast .

Not how I see it, I see a gunsmith giving fairly candid insight into the why of the delays involved. Fair play to him, most seem to just ignore any and all criticism. Frankly, I prefer knowing it's listened to.

And if folks think that it's only this gunsmith that's got these problems, they're woefully misinformed.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Not how I see it, I see a gunsmith giving fairly candid insight into the why of the delays involved. Fair play to him, most seem to just ignore any and all criticism. Frankly, I prefer knowing it's listened to.

And if folks think that it's only this gunsmith that's got these problems, they're woefully misinformed.

i see car crash tv .

shooter1968

I repeat: I have references of other spanish shooters that have rifles from Roedale Precision, and they are all very pleased by the quality, which they consider exceptional.

I want only to have my rifle and shooting with him, then everything will be forgotten. Pete has promised me that in one or two weeks I will have my rifle, and I believe Pete.

Greetings from Spain.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

i see car crash tv .

So change the channel. It's not like we've superglued you to your seat, tied your hands, taped your eyes open and set your web browser to automatically refresh the page y'know.

patsat

I think that Roedale just needs to cut down on his load, or expand the business. you seem to be just run off your feet! half the workload with someone and get making the rifles!

ronboy

Sparks wrote: »

So change the channel. It's not like we've superglued you to your seat, tied your hands, taped your eyes open and set your web browser to automatically refresh the page y'know.

:D

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

So change the channel. It's not like we've superglued you to your seat, tied your hands, taped your eyes open and set your web browser to automatically refresh the page y'know.

you are getting worse ,if thats possible .

ejg

shooter1968 wrote: »

I repeat: I have references of other spanish shooters that have rifles from Roedale Precision, and they are all very pleased by the quality, which they consider exceptional.

I want only to have my rifle and shooting with him, then everything will be forgotten. Pete has promised me that in one or two weeks I will have my rifle, and I believe Pete.

Greetings from Spain.

I've had two rifles from Roedale.
one is our old 1960's sako 308 that got a complete makeover and a new Lothar Walther barrel. I wanted an accurate and reliable rifle.
From day one it shot under half inch.
The other was a souped up howa factory barrel sporter.
It is worth the wait.

I shot this group with the Roedale Sako 308 yesterday. I am not a target shooter. 3-shot group 100m




The tuned howa stainless sporter in 22-250 5 shot group 100m



edi

Jonty

It would be interesting to hear from an Irish gunsmith e.g. Fergal White and see what he says.

roedale

6.5x55
As i stated in my opening words, I am the 1st to admit that things didnt go right for a variety of reasons.
If you where able to comprihend that any problems suited me just as little as they suited you,where, apart from my not noting your change request, ( i was doing 100mph down the autobahn at the time !) all beyond my control.If you where able to accept an honest appology as sincere, and that most folks deserve a second chance, and if you where bit clever you might have realised that customers who went through the hard times with me and supported me get looked after a lifetime long, its very easy to give an extra 5% discount on a scope, pass the odd item through with 0 profit etc just to say thanks for sticking by me during my time of need.

Unfortunately, you chose to attempt to do me damage at every opertunity that presented itsself, and by the sound of things you are still hissing at the mouth.
I am very sorry that your build didn't go as planned. Many factors where involved at the time that where beyond my control.

For the benefit of others.

In May 06 you ordered a custom 6.5x55 with a 1 in 10" twist for shooting light bullets from me and was told 3-5months for completion providing all parts arrive on time ,we agreed on that basics and I accepted your deposit and order. I then set about ordering all the parts. then we waited and waited waited ,waited .6 months passed , 1 batch of 6 actions from the Norwegan manufacturer Hansen (yours included)where shipped, together with a couple of mcmillan stocks i needed that Hansen had on shelf. The shipment arrived in Köln airport, I was notified to fax my dealers license to the department for importation in the Airport. Since that day, neither I or Hansen has seen hide or hair of the actions or stocks. you can imagine the hassle that then ensues. Luckily for me the sender is responsible for the shipment until it is signed for. But Hansen obviously wanted to wait and see if the package turned up. 3 months is the wait and see time before the shipping insurance will cover the loss. Shortly after the one part of the company got cancer, he recovered as far as i know, but delivery time went beyond an realistic date,12 months passed luckily your action did finaly arrive.but infact some actions ordered where never delieverd.

After 18months and more delays you decided that a different twist rate would be better suited to all allround hunting rifle as you now had some sika deer opertunities rather than the uncommon 10" which realy only made the rifle a long range foxing and roe deer gun. You contacted me as i was driving on the autobahn to work, and via mobile phone we had a chat, and was told no problem, might be a Typo, can't check whilst not in the workshop ,and that the rifle would arrive with correct barrel that was on the order and it was nearly ready to start build as nearly all parts where in,Unfortunately by the time i had been away a week working for the space agency, i had forgotten to check the twist rate on the order. So it stayed as it was, with a 1 in 10twist. a further 6 months where required to finish as I was only part time at the time. This all happened during the time of the reduction in team size in my Space Agency job and the illness of my wife. German Officials very slow with paper work processing, but delivering with out EU transfer papers was not an option. Then we couldn't get a courier to carry the rifle. Finaly the courier contract was signed up with the German GTA and it went. Unfortunately we delivered the rifle with the twist rate you originaly ordered. This was my fault as you did call. I learned from this experience and all change requests are now done in writing.

I requested you send the rifle back to Germany as it was garantied. You refused. I even offerd for you to fly over with the rifle and I would fit the new barrel whilst you where here, flight and accomodation paid ! You refused. Your refusal to return the rifle completely null and void your warranty and took the onus completely off me to do anything about it.

But. Because I am a stand up guy. (and not because of your threats to make an all out effort to log your self into every weapons orientated webforum world wide and carry out a campaign to ruin my reputation.) I agreed that I would replace the 1 in 10" barrell with a more suitable for heavier bullets 1 in 8" twist barrel. And in lieu of paying the fitting costs would provide a free sound moderator(same cost) agreeing this and carrying it out took another 13 months and 40-50 emails, simply becuase.1 you couldn't agree at first, and .2. this took us intothe phase of my building my workshop and bieng basicly closed for 8months. Finally, after getting the right paperwork, we got the new barrell delivered to Ireland. You had agreed to return the 1 in 10" barrel once the 1 in 8" arrived and was fitted. To this day i have not recieved the barrel back.

As soon as I recieve the barrel. i will be most happy to send you a free example of our new moderator. I'm sure you will be happy to know that the diploma study into the design and developement of sound supressors for firearms at the University of Applied Science was completed last month and the new moderators are a result of that scientific work.

If you were the last customer on this earth , i would realy think twice about offering you my services again.

Jonathan, I don't bear a grudge but unfortunately you do.I am still waiting from my barrel back you promised 18 months ago!!!.Once it is returned i will honour my offer to send you a moderator.

End of my comments on that.

Now if this whole thing is going to turn into a Pete bashing thread, and the past must keep on bieng dragged up, I see no further point in my input on this forum at all.

I only chimed in in the beginning to say, we are alive and kicking. yes things didnt go right in the past, this is why.this is what we have done, and are doing about it.

Now either that is accepted or not.

johngalway. as i'm sat at the pc waiting for the engraver to finish its run, i have time to type, otherwise it would be briefer.

jwshooter, i'm under pressure as i'm 3 months late with the start of my series custom rifle production due to my Dad's health and then death, That pressure is self inflicted as i want to be on with the job. taking on the work i can do hasn't been a problem since the new workshop was built, getting the parts to fullfill the work has. Thats why ive undertaken to maufacture as much localy as can be done.

patsat, my big problem is that everyone who calls here on the phone wants to talk to me, if i let that happen i get asked loads of questions that, whilst bieng maybe interesting, hold me up. eg.whats the best bullet for a 90kg wild boat at 400m, which primers should i use with a tikka t3 in 22.250, what do i need for paperwork if i want to hunt in Scotland. even life stories. I feel like a cross between the Pope at confession, wikipedia for gun nuts and the forestry comission visitorcentre information service.
But my staff are helping out and things are moving in the right direction nicely. Expanding we are, and i'm positive of the outcome.


regards Pete

demonloop

roedale wrote: »

...all beyond my control

...if you where bit clever you might have realised...

...by the sound of things you are still hissing at the mouth

...where beyond my control.

...by the time i had been away a week working for the space agency, i had forgotten to check the twist rate on the order

German Officials very slow with paper work processing...

Then we couldn't get a courier to carry the rifle

Your refusal to return the rifle completely null and void your warranty and took the onus completely off me to do anything about it

If you were the last customer on this earth , i would realy think twice about offering you my services again.

Pete,

With all due respect, I'd take a step back from this thread for a while, as the above snippets are what I took from a quick scan of your post. I don't think any of the above will help your business.

If members of forums want to rubbish your reputation, let them crack on. The way to prove them wrong is get the work out on time and without hiccup. By the sounds of it, the quality of your work is already there so it's just the other aspects you need to work on.

I heard a great quote years ago - "you can't please everyone, but you have to try"

roedale

demonloop. so many factors beyond my control annoyed the hell out of me, angered customers and made the whole job most unenjoyable. you cannot imagine my joy in setting up production that is in no way dependant on deliveries from certain countries. its cost me the best part of 200grand € to do. But worth every penny and i intend to do my very very best to make sure things go to my plan in future.
Issues always occur in business, but back up plans for production of parts are set up.
I have gone along a hugely steep learning curve the last 5 years, I never claimed to be a businessman, but by hell ive learned a few lessons.

ive now finished my cnc engraving run so wont be at the pc so much anyhow for a few days. back to getting my fingers oily.

regards Pete

greenpeter

Very best of luck to you Pete,
Hope its works out for you and if i had a rifle thats shoots groups like ejgs i would be happy and proud to have built it.

Tackleberrywho

Jonty wrote: »

It would be interesting to hear from an Irish gunsmith e.g. Fergal White and see what he says.

Figgy AKA Fergal White asked me to make a statement on his behalf



I would never make a negative comment about anyone either in the
gunsmith trade or any line of business for that matter.

I personlly have found Pete Lincoln to be a complete professional in
the short time that Ive known him. Very often he has taken me out
of the **** in times when I was stuck for parts and tools when time
was not on my side. To say that Pete Lincoln is a true professional
would without doubt be a very huge understatement.

Pete like myself has had some very huge ups and downs and it looks
to me that he's coming out the other side of it now and people should
knock the past on the head and take what he says onboard.

I havent had quite the run of hard times that Pete lincoln has had but
I have had it in other ways, finance was the the biggest stumbling block
for me but Im certainly over the worst of that now and the future is looking
good despite our current economic climate. Pete Lincoln is a good man

Fergal White 15-4-10

Spannerman7

greenpeter wrote: »

Very best of luck to you Pete,
Hope its works out for you and if i had a rifle thats shoots groups like ejgs i would be happy and proud to have built it.

+1, you'd get my custom (if I had money)

6.5x55

Roedale thank you for the cross between the'' Sermon from the Mount & Grimms Fairy Tales '' I have neither the time nor the inclination to write such and epistle however their are a few Salient points that I should point out .

1 When I Contacted Herr Hansen the action maker after a year to see what was going on with the action he told me that he only recieved your order for my action a couple of months previously .I requested a copy of your email to him you never produced it .

2(a) you state that ''after 18 months i decided that a different twist rate because I wanted a rifle better suited to allround hunting rather than the uncommon 1in 10 rate which made the RIFLE realy only a long range fox + Roe deer rifle'' Why on earth would I order a rifle better suited to Foxing + Roe deer WHEN I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WITH NO ROE DEER!!!!!.
(b)In an Email from Roedale dated 23/10/07 @11.13am(which states)
HI J
''I think the 1 in10 rate is carried over from a 308 quote Hence a typo.''

in an email from Roedale on 24/10/07 @7.49pm
Hi J
''The Barrell wont be a 1in 10 it was a typo .''

NOW I COULD SCAN THESE AND PUT THEM UP BUT CANNOT BE BOTHERED.

3 It is a sad Reflection on you and your company that 5 months after paying in full for the rifle . I Had to
(a) go onto a UK rifle site to get further info on you and you company only to find several other people who had been treated in the same shoddy manner .
(b)Threaten to inform every rifle web site on 4 continents about your modus operadai in an effort to get my rifle delivered or money back.

4 with regard to the moderator your last email on the subject was on the
21/8/09 which you stated ''the moderator will come when we have our own model finnished '' Dont Bother I have bought one !

5 Barrel
It would have be extremly difficult for me to have promised to return the Barrel 18 months ago, When it only arrived in Ireland on the 20th September last year 15 months after the rifle . It has not been fitted yet

This should allow the lads on this forum to make their own minds Up.

I Rest my case .

Caveat Emptor

Good Luck Now

6.5 .

tomcat220t

No matter how well you cut the cake there is always 2 sides to every story .When someone gives a time scale ,verbal or otherwise it is legally binding .In other words ,a contract .Having read all the posts here by Reodale and even if they built the best rifles in the world id give them notthing of my hard earned money .

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

No matter how well you cut the cake there is always 2 sides to every story .When someone gives a time scale ,verbal or otherwise it is legally binding .In other words ,a contract .Having read all the posts here by Reodale and even if they built the best rifles in the world id give them notthing of my hard earned money .

Every man deserves a break.

But perhaps if the guy did a few good will gestures things may defrost...
He has stated he is back on track. Give him a chance. Buy something small and see how it goes from there

I'm lucky as I have a Custom Rifle builder quite close to me.
Unlucky though as I can't afford a Custom Rifle lol

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Every man deserves a break.

But perhaps if the guy did a few good will gestures things may defrost...
He has stated he is back on track. Give him a chance. Buy something small and see how it goes from there

I'm lucky as I have a Custom Rifle builder quite close to me.
Unlucky though as I can't afford a Custom Rifle lol

brownie points my man , your going well .

dCorbus

Have we not gone a wee bit off topic.
The OP asked a question - I think he now should have more than enough information to make his own decision.

Thank you to Pete L. / Roedale for his candour and for at least having the balls to stand up, pitch his case, and take the knocks. IMHO In that at least he should be commended.

However......

I would strongly suggest that people's own private business transactions should be treated as that: their private business transactions. Lads, if you have a problem with Roedale and the service they provide or don't provide, you've made that abundantly clear. Might I suggest, however, that no side of this debate is gaining any kudos by "washing their dirty linen in public". I, for one, if I had such difficulty or issues with a contractor, supplier, or consultant, wouldn't be wasting my time getting into what is rapidly descending into, or indeed already has become, a slagging match. Take it to the relevant authorities if you're unhappy. Seek legal advice. Do whatever you like to satisfy your own problems with Roedale - But frankly this is becoming childish, churlish, and more than a bit tiresome.

And you've more than adequately got your point across.

When someone gives a time scale ,verbal or otherwise it is legally binding .In other words ,a contract

Not exactly true.

Unfortunately / Fortunately - depending on which side of the supply-line you're sitting.

It takes more than a verbal assurance / estimate of timescale to form a contract - a lot more.

I've never done business with Roedale, have no connection with them, and don't know Mr. Lincoln - but at this stage, the relevant points have been made by both sides of what is a business transaction gone sour, and can we all move on. Please deal with your private business matters privately.

Just a suggestion - and I'm not gonna take sides as I don;t know either or any of the parties involved - Just my humble tuppence!

thedragon

Lets take a very simple scenario, your going out to buy a car, any car, just a car. The car your buying is the same price in every garage you go to but in order to get it you have to wait for a while for it to come in. Now one garage will get it in lets just say 2 months and they never fail to deliver on that. The next place promise it will be 2 months but have a poor reputation on the delivery bit, But hold on, the guy that owns the garage is a very nice guy and even if he does f**k about a bit, it doesnt take from that very fact that he's a nice bloke and really he deserves a chance. He also has a s**t load of stuff going on his personal life.

Alright in the meantime you just want the car and you have the money to buy it. Are you really going to get caught up in all this guys personal stuff. Do you really give a f**k, you just want the car and you more than likely have enough problems of your own. Now ask yourself one question, who are you going to buy that car from.

Sorry if I sound ruthless here but thats how the real world deals with things. They really dont want to hear any crap, they just want what they pay for and they want it delivered on time. Nobody upon nobody wants to listen to another mans problems, its just not OK.

dCorbus

Ahhhhh........but you're not buying a factory standard spec toyota corolla, are you?:D It's more like a custom car - and I don't mean one that's been all funkidelically ICE'd to within an inch of its skinny low-radial sub-woofered life. It's more of an AMG situation!:rolleyes:

But, you're correct, thedragon - One does the research, finds the man for the job, checks the references, and gets on with it.

So, I think the jury on Roedale is out, to get back to the OP's question.

Some very damning reports.

Some not so damning reports.

Some good reports.

And some wait-and-see reports.

Vegeta

Hey folks

I closed the thread because a poster got abusive and I deleted his post. I don't want this thread to turn into a mud slinging competition so as it stands both sides have got their say and I think that is a good place to leave it.

Veg