Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash

xyz1

Anyone have any thoughts on this crash? I think anytime so many high profile leading members of a country are involved in an incident like this it warrants further investigation. I dont know much (anything) about the Polish government or any reasons anyone would want to be rid of these people. Maybe someone in here has some theories? Or a little more knowledge on the political situation in Poland? On board were the president of Poland, military joint chiefs of staff (army, air force, navy), the central bank governor, a deputy foreign minister, head army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, Olympic Committee head, head civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and widely known national lawmakers (including core members of the Law and Justice party), the Polish foreign ministry said. Kaczynski's wife, Maria, also died. Any thoughts?

Brown Bomber

Payback for refusing to spend taxpayers money during the Swine Flu hoax?

Brown Bomber

Or agreeing to house part of the US anti-missile shield to the objections of Russia?

This is strangely familiar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Sikorski#Death

My name is URL

A bit early to start making assumptions imho. Not just because the investigation is barely underway but the people that died haven't even been buried yet. After the Air France crash a while back people were asked to leave it until the dust had settled, so to speak

Selected

Gas deal?
http://www.thenews.pl/business/artykul122257_polish-companies-sabotage-new-russian-gas-deal.html

Generally speaking Ireland and Poland have a similar history when it comes to being ruled by a foreign government and are thus ridiculed and deemed irrelevant when dealing in international matters.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2469335.ece

It was exactly six months, to the day, and with much opposition and reluctance that President Kaczynski, signed the Lisbon Treaty, 10/10/09.

More comments by the German Ambassador - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0320/1224243126493.html

Brown Bomber

My name is URL wrote: »

A bit early to start making assumptions imho. Not just because the investigation is barely underway but the people that died haven't even been buried yet. After the Air France crash a while back people were asked to leave it until the dust had settled, so to speak

On reflextion I'd agree.

Selected

My name is URL wrote: »

A bit early to start making assumptions imho. Not just because the investigation is barely underway but the people that died haven't even been buried yet. After the Air France crash a while back people were asked to leave it until the dust had settled, so to speak

Brown Bomber wrote: »

On reflextion I'd agree.

The conspiracy theorists conspire!

fontanalis

I read that a flux capaciatator with a better woo woo barrier was invented but someone heard from someonelse else that them told they those would never get their hands on it.

Lab_Mouse

fontanalis wrote: »

with a better woo woo barrier

Bullsh1t..any evidence of that?link please:D:pac:

TheVoice99

fontanalis wrote: »

I read that a flux capaciatator with a better woo woo barrier was invented but someone heard from someonelse else that them told they those would never get their hands on it.

This is my first post here, i've been a lurker for a while, but honestly fontanalis I dont know why you post here, you never as far as I can see ever actually contribute anything that could be considered adding to the thread, you intentionally drag everything into sillyness, if you dont believe something and want to make it known, please do, but you dont, you intentionally drag OT any thread you make an appearance on and its annoying and a waste of your time and readers time.


Back on topic...........................................................

If the plane was taken out it would most likely be because of the US missile shield provocation, when I first heard about the crash and the people on board and it happening in USSR, my immidiate thought was that Putin was saying "Dont mess with me", whether or not its true I don't know, but the history of assasination using aircraft crashes cannot be ignored, plus its convienient.

Mahatma coat

yeah, its very Odd havin all those people on the same plane they were going to the memorial for the Katyan Massacres where the Soviets Killed al the Polish officers and then tried to blame it on the Germans.

My second thought was a 'tis OK tho they have a Spare '


COud this happen to the Irish Government, wuld there be a situation where that many of the people in charge were on the same plane.

karlm37

Mahatma coat wrote: »

COud this happen to the Irish Government, wuld there be a situation where that many of the people in charge were on the same plane.

Nope, they all have their own individual private plane, limo, driver etc etc...!

Mahatma coat

LOL

But seriously tho, is that just something I picked up from TV or do countries have rules in place that try to prevent so many people being at risk in one situation

fontanalis

TheVoice99 wrote: »

This is my first post here, i've been a lurker for a while, but honestly fontanalis I dont know why you post here, you never as far as I can see ever actually contribute anything that could be considered adding to the thread, you intentionally drag everything into sillyness, if you dont believe something and want to make it known, please do, but you dont, you intentionally drag OT any thread you make an appearance on and its annoying and a waste of your time and readers time.


Back on topic...........................................................

If the plane was taken out it would most likely be because of the US missile shield provocation, when I first heard about the crash and the people on board and it happening in USSR, my immidiate thought was that Putin was saying "Dont mess with me", whether or not its true I don't know, but the history of assasination using aircraft crashes cannot be ignored, plus its convienient.

It's as lucid as this thread will get, the DEAD aren't even in the ground and peopel already want to stroke their egos spouting knowledge of what the "New Worl Order" wants to do. I came into this section yesterday expecting some arm chair expert to have a thread about a case where 95 peopel lost their lives.
I know, I know; it's a conspiracy theory forum but this thread just reeks of throwing sh1t against a wall and seeing what sticks.
Apologies mods, I know I take the piss in the past but 95 people aren't even in the ground yet and stuff is getting manufactured already.

Lab_Mouse

TheVoice99 wrote: »

This is my first post here, i've been a lurker for a while, but honestly fontanalis I dont know why you post here, you never as far as I can see ever actually contribute anything that could be considered adding to the thread, you intentionally drag everything into sillyness, if you dont believe something and want to make it known, please do, but you dont, you intentionally drag OT any thread you make an appearance on and its annoying and a waste of your time and readers time.


Back on topic...........................................................

If the plane was taken out it would most likely be because of the US missile shield provocation, when I first heard about the crash and the people on board and it happening in USSR, my immidiate thought was that Putin was saying "Dont mess with me", whether or not its true I don't know, but the history of assasination using aircraft crashes cannot be ignored, plus its convienient.

While you were 'lurking':rolleyes:did you read the charter..the bit about back seat modding?You just registered to post on the least(imho)interesting thread here.No other thread ever grabbed your attention that would of made you wanna post while you where 'lurking'?

oh and welcome to boards:D(what was your last accounts name btw?I might know you)

Will let the dust settle(as in let the bodies be buried)before I will give the OP my view on the crash.

Richard tea

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

While you were 'lurking':rolleyes:did you read the charter..the bit about back seat modding?You just registered to post on the least(imho)interesting thread here.No other thread ever grabbed your attention that would of made you wanna post while you where 'lurking'?

oh and welcome to boards:D(what was your last accounts name btw?I might know you)

Will let the dust settle(as in let the bodies be buried)before I will give the OP my view on the crash.

Lab, did you read the charter about back seat modding:D Oh **** wait, just did it myself:o

studiorat

fontanalis wrote: »

It's as lucid as this thread will get, the DEAD aren't even in the ground and peopel already want to stroke their egos spouting knowledge of what the "New Worl Order" wants to do. I came into this section yesterday expecting some arm chair expert to have a thread about a case where 95 peopel lost their lives.
I know, I know; it's a conspiracy theory forum but this thread just reeks of throwing sh1t against a wall and seeing what sticks.
Apologies mods, I know I take the piss in the past but 95 people aren't even in the ground yet and stuff is getting manufactured already.

In fairness, there's very little in the way of CT creation goes on. Mostly it's discussion of existing conspiracies and they already exist regarding that particular plane crash. I've already seen mention of the CIA and that it was a plan to prevent Russia and Poland closening ties as would have happened at the ceremony to remember the Kaytan dead.

Of course it goes without saying that having a motive does not indicate guilt, although that seems to go unnoticed here from time to time.

Lab_Mouse

Richard tea wrote: »

Lab, did you read the charter about back seat modding:D Oh **** wait, just did it myself:o

In fairness richard at least i didnt register with boards.ie to back seat mod:pac:

humanji

Oh for the love of god people! There's a topic. Discuss it.

zimovain

Came across this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7yD_SVK7Yw

http://www.prisonplanet.com/gunshots-fired-in-immediate-aftermath-of-polish-plane-crash.html

Brown Bomber

First off, I genuinely believe it was a tragic accident.

The only lingering doubt I have is convenience of removing a democratically elected leader who didn't always tow the globalist line. Last country to ratify Lisbon, no swine flu sham vaccinations etc.

A likely new leader of Poland is neocon and possibly CIA agent current Minister of Foriegn Affairs Radek Sikorski.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rados%C5%82aw_Sikorski

From that Wikipedia page we learn

Sikorski was much involved in the Solidarity social movement in the late 1970s, and chaired the student strike committee in Bydgoszcz in March 1981. After martial law was declared in his homeland in December 1981, he fled to Britain, which granted him asylum the following year.[1]

He studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Pembroke College, University of Oxford; while there, he joined the all-male drinking club The Bullingdon Club. Other members then included the current leader of the British Conservative Party, David Cameron, and current Mayor of London Boris Johnson, who wrecked his room in a bizarre initiation ceremony.[2]

He then worked as a freelance journalist. In 1984, he took British citizenship. In the mid-1980s, Sikorski worked as a war correspondent in Afghanistan and Angola.

From 1990 he was an advisor to Rupert Murdoch on investments in Poland.

From 2002 to 2005 he was a resident fellow of the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C. and executive director of the New Atlantic Initiative. He returned to government in Poland as Minister of National Defence in 2005. He resigned on February 5, 2007 allegedly due to conflicts with the Polish PM Jaroslaw Kaczynski and the chief of military intelligence Antoni Macierewicz.

So...

A pro-US, pro-EU, Rupert Murdoch advisor who was a member of an elitist club who counted among its members the likely next PM of Britain David Cameron and the current Mayor of London Boris Johnson. The Oxford graduate had also fallen out with Kaczynski.

The Bullingdon Club - 1980's


Sikorski is first twat on the bottom left, Boris Johnson bottom right and the dashing Dave Cameron over Sikorski's left shoulder in between Chris Waddle and Elton John playing pocket pool and looking soulfully into the distance.

Not bad for an asylum seeker huh?

On March 22nd 2010 former Murdoch advisor Sikorski was touted as the "new face of Polish politics" by strangely enough, the Murdoch owned Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/world_agenda/article7071207.ece

So onto his career in Journalism. He was employed by the National Review which was founded by conservative mouthpiece William F. Buckley. Buckley also had been a CIA agent. His boss was E. Howard Hunt, convicted Watergate burgular and strongly connected to the JFK assasination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley,_Jr.#Education.2C_military_service_and_the_CIA

Around this time he also authored a book.

Dust of the Saints: A Journey to Herat in Time of War.

Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly

The author, London correspondent for the U.S. National Review , made an arduous trek across Soviet-occupied Afghanistan in 1987, escorted most of the way by mujahedin, Muslim resistence fighters. During the 102-day trip, he observed the aerial massacre of a village and encountered mine fields, ambushes and Soviet gunships. A political refugee from Poland who is now a British citizen, Sikorski sympathized with the mujahedin and their cause and was also fascinated by their culture, religion and mores. A sharp observer of resistance tactics, he is convinced that the delivery of U.S. anti-aircraft "Stingers" was the catalyst that eventually led to the Soviet withdrawal in 1989, though he noted one paradox: the more foreign military aid local commanders received, the less effective seemed their military muscle. His engrossing book is a skillful combination of travel writing, personal adventure and military reportage.

http://www.amazon.com/Dust-Saints-Journey-Herat-Time/dp/1557784043/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271348562&sr=1-6

So, "Sikorski sympathized with the mujahedin and their cause ". It has been well established that "their cause" was the CIA cause

Former NSA man Wayne Madsen had this to say in 2006

Sikorski operated under the cover of a journalist in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan during the mid 1980s and in Angola in the late 1980s where he liaised with pro-U.S. UNITA guerrillas backed by apartheid South Africa and noted GOP activists, including recently convicted Jack Abramoff as well as Karl Rove friend and adviser Grover Norquist.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/search?searchtext=Sikorski
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2006/01/polands-defence-minister-radek.html

Finally he is married to Anne Applebaum, a neocon propogandist for the Washinton Post.
Here she is unsuprisingly calling for the US to violate International law and attack Iran.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/22/AR2010022203528.html?nav=emailpage

TalkieWalkie

zimovain wrote: »

Came across this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7yD_SVK7Yw

http://www.prisonplanet.com/gunshots-fired-in-immediate-aftermath-of-polish-plane-crash.html

Sounds like gunfire to me. No real surprise there then.

Brown Bomber

It is being reported in Poland that the maker of the gun shots video has been stabbed to death in hospital ni Kiev. He was in hospital after being stabbed.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/claim-man-who-shot-polish-plane-crash-gunshots-footage-stabbed-to-death.html

Here is the video again, with translations

Though I haven't yet figured out in my own mind what is going on, it is creepy that the one of the shots fired apparently coincide with what appears to be a person suddenly falling.

Also, I can't be certain but it seems in the video there may have been a survivor waving for help.

That section of the film steadied and enlarged

uprising2

Good work Bomber, again!, it's getting stranger by the day, maybe think about editing "First off, I genuinely believe it was a tragic accident."

PirateShampoo

What i dont understand is, if they are killing the survivers then why are they letting a guy wander around with a camera filming it all?

Brown Bomber

uprising2 wrote: »

Good work Bomber, again!, it's getting stranger by the day, maybe think about editing "First off, I genuinely believe it was a tragic accident."

Ha! Yeah maybe, but I don't want to get stabbed in a hospital bed. The only worse place to get stabbed in hospital is in the testicles.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What i dont understand is, if they are killing the survivers then why are they letting a guy wander around with a camera filming it all?

Did you not read Bomber's post, 2 posts back, saying
"It is being reported in Poland that the maker of the gun shots video has been stabbed to death in hospital in Kiev. He was in hospital after being stabbed."

So the film maker got stabbed, went to hospital, was on the mend, then was stabbed to death in hospital.
So I wouldn't say he "was let" film it, just that he did, then died for doing it.

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

Did you not read Bomber's post, 2 posts back, saying
"It is being reported in Poland that the maker of the gun shots video has been stabbed to death in hospital in Kiev. He was in hospital after being stabbed."

So the film maker got stabbed, went to hospital, was on the mend, then was stabbed to death in hospital.
So I wouldn't say he "was let" film it, just that he did, then died for doing it.

That holds no relevance to my question. If this was a planned assassination, then why did the killers let these guys wander around the crash filming them? Or where they just inept assassins?

And now the only person who filmed this whole conspiracy is now dead. Sounds more like a hoax to me.

Where is the guy he was talking to in the video?

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

That holds no relevence to my question. If this was a planned assassination, then why did the killers let these guys wander around the crash filming them? Or where they just inept assassins?

I'd say they were inept (at that stage), more interested in shooting survivors (important polish people), but made up for it later in the hospital.

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

I'd say they were inept (at that stage), more interested in shooting survivors (important polish people), but made up for it later in the hospital.

More important than stopping somebody who could expose the whole thing and maybe start a war?

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

More important than stopping somebody who could expose the whole thing and maybe start a war?

I don't know what your point is or if your trying to cover your tracks over your oversight of the obvious, but why are you asking me these questions?, do you think I have the answers?, I can give my opinion no problem.

My Opinion:
The person filming (with others) came upon the wreckage to film the wreckage, shots started, they ran away, assasins done their job and got out of there before more people came upon them.
We dont know the assasins were aware they were being filmed (film camera's don't need to be carried on the shoulder anymore).

Assasins point of view:
They were sent to make sure there were no survivors, as they got there local people were coming upon the scene (how many?, we dont know!), kill survivors and vanish, let others worry about the locals, job done, no survivors.

Camera man point of view:
Here's a crash, I'll film it, sh1t gunshots, run, keep head down, lucky escape, put it on internet, knock on door, stab, stab, get door closed, lucky escape again, go to hospital to get fixed up, on the mend, stab, stab, dead.