Irish Rail exposé in Tribune

Hungerford

Just seen the Sunday papers. The Tribune is giving Irish Rail a right old going over in its news section.

The articles won't be online for ages yet but one story claims that the company has scrapped its KRP plans in terms of extra services and Dempsey is closing Waterford-Rosslare to meet FF's promises in the West.

The second article is a page long and the introduction is "Iarnrod Eireann is going nowhere fast. Despite €500m in spending and grandiose promises, journey times are rising and a fleet of carraiges lies decaying in the sidings as overcrowding gets worse".

Well worth reading and plenty of ammo for the south-east rail campaigners.

paddyland

And yet Dempsey has the gall to stand before people and lie that he always cared about rail services.

The man tells lies habitually, purely for the stunt of furthering his own political career ambitions.

The transport industry in Ireland will never know where it stands, for good or ill, under a minister who tells lies.

BenShermin

Ah lovely, just planning an early evening trip to a beer garden, The Tribune will have to be bought en-route. Good to see a paper actually reporting the facts and not reporting just another photoshoot:rolleyes:.

The MK3s lying in the sidings of Heuston is a shambles. The majority of intercity journeys in the UK are made on MK3 refurbs and yet the IÉ marketing spin makes it look like they are too "old" for us.

DWCommuter

Fabulous set of articles there from Ken Griffin. (Rail Users Ireland even look a bit more interesting.);)

The WRC has a lot to answer for now as predicted by myself and a colleague 6 years ago.

Q roars of abuse from the WRC supporters.:D

DWCommuter

By the way, these articles aren't about the WRC, but much of the information contained in them and statements by the minister clearly demonstrate how IE and Government got their priorities all wrong. Now that the money is gone, the culling begins.

KRP is dead for now. No increased capacity. Some of the next batch of 22Ks are heading to the WRC instead of increased services on the Heuston suburban corridor.

Rosslare - Waterford is being closed so the books can be balanced. The loss on that line is being transferred to the WRC.

etchyed

Great article (if a little sensationalist) with lots of things I've never seen reported in the mainstream media before. Most of it fed directly to them by RUI too, with Mark Gleeson quoted a lot. Fair play to RUI for getting their fingers out and the Tribune for running with this.

Sponge Bob

Hungerford wrote: »

Jthe company has scrapped its KRP plans in terms of extra services

Thats because there is no plan to install the "missing link" quad track west of Kylemore Road and of course no electrification either.

edanto

I bought the Tribune just for this story when I saw it on the cover. It's incredible how CIE can stand over these decisions, and there has to be more accountability at government. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Like yourselves, I've been reading similar stories on this forum for years. There's always some crummy excuse the IE roll out to avoid taking the blame, when it's patently obvious to outsiders that they made a mess of things.

Steviemak

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/apr/11/rail-against-the-machine/

DWCommuter

And this one.

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/apr/11/iarnrod-eireann-derails-420m-line-upgrade/

I'm off for a drink. You'd need one after that reading.:D

lord lucan

This line from Fearn really got me going:

"Our Mark 3 carriages... are close to the end of their useful life unless one spends a lot of money on refurbishment. However, a Mark 3 carriage in itself is inert and needs something to pull it, a locomotive. That is a very traditional way of doing things because, given the relatively short distances we have in Ireland, it means uncoupling the locomotive and putting it to the other end," he said.

Holy jaysus,he makes it sound like it's some ancient ritual that holds back modern railways. On a suburban run with a short turnaround railcars make sense but on an InterCity run to Cork it doesn't take an age to uncouple the loco,run it around and hook back up at the far end. Keeping loops at termini for this won't blow a massive hole in IE's budget and would enable them to use currently mothballed 201's and MKIII's and free up 22K's for the Kildare Route and WRC.

Judgement Day

Upon mature reflection and without reading the Turbine articles - yet - the only rational conclusion that one can come to is that Dick Fearn is a total knob like Barry Kenny. Certainly in my experience of dealing with him he has been a model of CIE evasiveness. Sack him, Lynch and that arsehole Dempsey and the railways might have a fighting chance. Oh and lets sack that useless prick Ciaran Cuffe while were at it.

murphaph

Has Fearn never heard of push-pull operation?

One of the MkIII sets was even converted to run in this configuration! It's as popular as ever here in Germany for regional routes.

L1011

We were doing push-pull when Fearn came in, ffs.

penexpers

DWCommuter wrote: »

KRP is dead for now. No increased capacity. Some of the next batch of 22Ks are heading to the WRC instead of increased services on the Heuston suburban corridor.

22Ks would be a bit wasted on the Hazelhatch-Heuston route I would have thought?

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

One of the MkIII sets was even converted to run in this configuration! It's as popular as ever here in Germany for regional routes.

This was the Mk3a "Cú Na Mara" set; it was wired for push-pull. They've all been scrapped now except for a few sitting behind a hotel in Naas.

And yes, that bit from Dick Fearn just proved what I thought of him. He's anti-locomotive. I'm all for replacement of life expired stock but the Mk3s aren't.

JHMEG

From the article

An Iarnród Éireann spokesman confirmed the company has scrapped plans to run extra services after the completion of the €420m Kildare route project later this year.

The project had originally secured state funding on the basis that more trains would be run. It is understood that some of the extra trains bought for the project will now be diverted to the Limerick-Galway line.

The mind boggles.

Hungerford

penexpers wrote: »

22Ks would be a bit wasted on the Hazelhatch-Heuston route I would have thought?

That was the basis under which Fearn secured the funding for the additional stock. I don't think that the articles are that sensationalist, there's a lot of stuff that wasn't included in them.

The court cases were only mentioned in passing and the WRC didn't get much of a look in.

I think there's probably scope for further pieces and I think we should contact the Tribune asking for more of the same. It's very rare that a newspaper examines CIE in such depth these days.

FlameoftheWest

Steviemak wrote: »

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/apr/11/rail-against-the-machine/

"perennially dysfunctional"

Bravo Ken Griffin! The best and most honest piece ever done on this monstrosity.

Wonderful. There are some good journalists left in Ireland it would seem.

FlameoftheWest

DWCommuter wrote: »

And this one.

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/apr/11/iarnrod-eireann-derails-420m-line-upgrade/

I'm off for a drink. You'd need one after that reading.:D

Meanwhile, the company is refurbishing a set of carriages especially for a trainspotters' excursion on the new western rail corridor.

The company is happy to continue tradition when it suits, however, and it is currently refurbishing a set of Mark 3 carriages for a trainspotters' excursion later this month. The carriages will be immediately mothballed once the event is over.

Have one for me. The truth always comes out in the end.

May I suggest a cocktail. A Tarquina Sunrise. (more like sunset...)

GA361

I really do miss those orange yokes:(

Seriously though, this is really idiotic on the part of IR.When you consider that the original Cravens were in use for around 45 years (until 2006) or so without any bother, it really seems like absolute nonsense to withdraw the Mark 3s ( and Mark 2s, imho) after only about 20 years and 35 years respectively, in service. Nonsense :mad:

Victor

murphaph wrote: »

Has Fearn never heard of push-pull operation?

One of the MkIII sets was even converted to run in this configuration! It's as popular as ever here in Germany for regional routes.

There is a bunch of push-pull sets - all the Mark 4s (8 sets), De-Dietrichs (4 sets, but used as 3 sets) and I think 4 sets of Mark 3s. Admittedly, the Mark 3 Push-Pull sets don't have full air-conditioning, but surely they can be used with the other Mark 3 carriages.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

There is a bunch of push-pull sets - all the Mark 4s (8 sets), De-Dietrichs (4 sets, but used as 3 sets) and I think 4 sets of Mark 3s. Admittedly, the Mark 3 Push-Pull sets don't have full air-conditioning, but surely they can be used with the other Mark 3 carriages.

Not in their current form. The non push-pull Mark 3s don't have the AAR cabling/sockets required for push-pull operation.

FlameoftheWest

Karsini wrote: »

Not in their current form. The non push-pull Mark 3s don't have the AAR cabling/sockets required for push-pull operation.

Is this a big deal technically and financially? Sounds to me CIE did not even need to buy the MK4s at all.

FlameoftheWest

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Is this a big deal technically and financially? Sounds to me CIE did not even need to buy the MK4s at all.

I'm not sure of the cost but it's theoretically possible. Here's two photos to show what I mean; in the photo of the push-pull coach you can see the cabling beside the gangway connection. I think they could have refurbished Mk3 sets rather than buying the Mk4s, of which the ride quality problems are yet to be sorted.

dowlingm

The Mark 3 fleet is essentially split in two - the hauled aircon 100mph sets hauling a gen van and the PP no-aircon no genvan 75mph sets. What's needed is a best of both worlds - 100mph aircon PP with no generator vans which is what the Mark 4 fleet is.

They are politically inconvenient because obviously IE sold the government on the 22Ks replacing, not supplementing the Mk3s while stringing the public along with the notion that 48 carriages would be used to bulk out Enterprise.

Transportuser09

The mk3 issue is a difficult one.

On the one hand, if 22000s hadn't been purchased, we could have ended up with a situation a few years down the road where the mk3s became life expired and no cash availble to replace them; though refurbhishment could have been a possibility as has been suggested. However in a modern operating environment, mk3s have plenty of cons compared to a 22000. Running round, more resources (guards, shunters). In a station like Heuston you would need at least one shunting locomotive in attendance. Trains can't be split as easy (ideal for off peak services - consider the need to attach generator vans, etc...) Railcars definitely reduce costs, and had we waited a few years we may have been stuck with an aging loco hauled fleet eating up resources. And railcars have been the preffered choice in many other countries (not all mind) for many years now. So as for Dick Fearn being pro-railcar I don't blame him in principle.

On the other hand I do agree that it is hard to justify the scrapping of push-pull stock barely 20 years old, not to mention the storing of diesel locos even newer than that.

Captain Chaos

They could have refurbed a few Mk3 sets, good for another 15 years easy. Then top and tail the sets with the excess locos like they do in the UK.

There is not enough 22k sets as there is and even with the top up batch it will be tight. Alot of the 3 cars sets doing the rounds would be better off as 6 car sets.

monument

Not that that sensationalist?

The articles bring up valid points, but this is clouded by sensationalism and trying to cover too much in too little space. And overcrowding has become a meaningless, overused word -- it has to be properly quantified if it is to mean anything, which has not being done here.

"...the Sunday Tribune has uncovered an apparent culture of waste stretching to the top of the organisation, which has cost the taxpayer almost €500m in recent years"

Four tracking the Kildare line is Irish Rail's "culture of waste"?

Ken and most of you already know well the KRP is really part of the Dart expansion project. Yes, it is a bloody nonsense that no extra Commuter services are planned once the KRP is finished later this year, but that's far, far away from the projecting amounting to "waste".

It also has a fleet of over 100 modern carriages lying idle across the country which it refuses to use despite continuing overcrowding at peak times on Dublin commuter routes.

100 modern carriages? Mark 3 carriages are modern?

On top of this, 5% of the city's Dart fleet – worth around €20m – is inoperable due to uncorrected manufacturing faults.

Is this really Irish Rail's fault?

Meanwhile, the company is refurbishing a set of carriages especially for a trainspotters' excursion on the new western rail corridor. Its economy drive, however, looks set to begin with the axing of rail services between Waterford and Rosslare.

This is quite unfair, with this near the start of the article and Irish Rail's response is left to the end. And near the end we're not told the Irish Rail admit to refurbishing (which means more than just "modest spruce-up".

Meanwhile, overcrowding continues to be a problem given the company's refusal to use its Mark 3 fleet of carriages which are practically identical to those used in Britain on prestigious rail routes such as the Great Western main line between London and Bristol and the east coast main line between London and Edinburgh.

And there's no "overcrowding" in the UK?

"Shankill is the first stop after Bray but you often can't get on the train. It's like a concentration-camp train and it's exactly the same going home in the evenings".

The overcrowding has become so bad that the service Lafferty normally gets – the 8.15am from Shankill – is often delayed by five minutes once it reaches the city centre because passengers literally struggle to get on it.

Like a concentration-camp train?





Is everybody still sure the article is not that sensationalist?

The revelations come as two senior executives are suing the company in court for unlawful dismissal

I don't think that is quite right? One was sent home on full pay, not quite unlawful dismissed.

According to Callan, many of his fellow commuters have abandoned the rail service in favour of private coaches in the wake of the Malahide viaduct collapse last August.

"They found that private coaches provided a level of comfort and quality of service that far exceeds what Iarnród éireann can provide.

"It is also very expensive to travel by rail compared with bus between Dublin and Drogheda," he said.

"Overcrowding is a particular issue in the evenings. In most cases, the Drogheda trains are full to capacity at Connolly and people are sandwiched into the trains. But there's no sign of anything being done to fix it."

Sorry to be crude on this, but there's too many contradictions here to let it go...

Many have abandoned using Northern line commuter trains, but even with a cheaper and apparently better coach service overcrowding is still an issue on the train service?

I know people up along the Northern line commuter. Sure there are problems with trains, but it seems to be a pastime to overstate things abou the trains up there. I keep getting told trains will not run on time, but every time I use the train to get out there it's on time or within a min or two from being on time. These kind of myths and exaggerations that are spread around will just push people away from using public transport at anytime, and they won't do anything to help solve real problems.

These comments will provide little comfort to Wexford commuters, however – they will soon be speaking of the Waterford-to-Rosslare line in the past tense as they ponder whether any of the money used on dud Darts, unneeded capacity and the indiscriminate purchasing of new carriages could have saved their service.

Hyperbole. Wexford commuters? Again, were the Dart problems Irish Rail's fault?

Again, I'm not saying the articles are not covering valid points -- but the sensationalism and trying to cover too much at once, distracts from the valid points.

DWCommuter

monument wrote: »

Not that that sensationalist?

The articles bring up valid points, but this is clouded by sensationalism and trying to cover too much in too little space. And overcrowding has become a meaningless, overused word -- it has to be properly quantified if it is to mean anything, which has not being done here.



Four tracking the Kildare line is Irish Rail's "culture of waste"?

Ken and most of you already know well the KRP is really part of the Dart expansion project. Yes, it is a bloody nonsense that no extra Commuter services are planned once the KRP is finished later this year, but that's far, far away from the projecting amounting to "waste".



100 modern carriages? Mark 3 carriages are modern?



Is this really Irish Rail's fault?



This is quite unfair, with this near the start of the article and Irish Rail's response is left to the end. And near the end we're not told the Irish Rail admit to refurbishing (which means more than just "modest spruce-up".



And there's no "overcrowding" in the UK?



Like a concentration-camp train?





Is everybody still sure the article is not that sensationalist?



I don't think that is quite right? One was sent home on full pay, not quite unlawful dismissed.




Sorry to be crude on this, but there's too many contradictions here to let it go...

Many have abandoned using Northern line commuter trains, but even with a cheaper and apparently better coach service overcrowding is still an issue on the train service?

I know people up along the Northern line commuter. Sure there are problems with trains, but it seems to be a pastime to overstate things abou the trains up there. I keep getting told trains will not run on time, but every time I use the train to get out there it's on time or within a min or two from being on time. These kind of myths and exaggerations that are spread around will just push people away from using public transport at anytime, and they won't do anything to help solve real problems.



Hyperbole. Wexford commuters? Again, were the Dart problems Irish Rail's fault?

Again, I'm not saying the articles are not covering valid points -- but the sensationalism and trying to cover too much at once, distracts from the valid points.

You haven't actually contradicted the articles. To concentrate on the "sensationalist or not" aspect of it is irrelevant. All the points made are valid. Full stop.

monument

DWCommuter wrote: »

You haven't actually contradicted the articles. To concentrate on the "sensationalist or not" aspect of it is irrelevant. All the points made are valid. Full stop.

It isn't irrelevant.

Take the "like a concentration-camp train" comment: Do you think the Dart at peak times is comparable to concentration-camp trains?

dowlingm

Monument - let's deal with your points one at a time.

You ask if 4-tracking the Kildare Line is a waste. Well, actually it is IF IT IS NOT USED AS INTENDED. The 4 tracking was intended so that IC express trains could overtake stopping commuter trains. If it's not being used for the purpose intended, it's a waste.

DWCommuter

monument wrote: »

It isn't irrelevant.

Take the "like a concentration-camp train" comment: Do you think the Dart at peak times is comparable to concentration-camp trains?

I said "sentionalist or not". But the situation remains the same in the context of the service offered. You are literally focusing on the presentation rather than the many great facts contained within. Therefore it is irrelevant.

monument

DWCommuter wrote: »

I said "sentionalist or not". But the situation remains the same in the context of the service offered. You are literally focusing on the presentation rather than the many great facts contained within. Therefore it is irrelevant.

Sensationalism is a distraction. It won't be taken seriously. It makes Barry Kenny's job easier, not harder. It's far easier to dismiss the valid points when such are surrounded by sensationalist nonsense. It allows others in Irish Rail and those in power feel like all of the valid points are also hyperbole.

dowlingm wrote: »

Monument - let's deal with your points one at a time.

You ask if 4-tracking the Kildare Line is a waste. Well, actually it is IF IT IS NOT USED AS INTENDED. The 4 tracking was intended so that IC express trains could overtake stopping commuter trains. If it's not being used for the purpose intended, it's a waste.

As I already said, it is a nonsense that that no extra services are planned using Commuter stock for when the line is finished.

But then again knowing how Irish Rail and railway news is announced in this country, I would not be too shocked if it's just a case the Irish Rail are not confirming extra services until there is a photo call with a few ministers on hand. Because of the sensationalist nature of the article it's hard to know.

In any case, nothing in the article says that all of the tracks will not be used -- current IC express trains could still overtake stopping commuter trains or mixed IC / commuter services.

And, the potential of four tracking will only be opened up once the Dart Underground is complete (Or if Dart Underground does not go ahead, maybe the finishing the section between the current four tracking and Heuston will have to be looked at?).

JHMEG

monument, your how could it be overcrowded if people are using the bus in droves is simplistic. I'm not familiar with the northern line, but I know if you took 20% of the passengers off the Maynooth peak services trains and put them on buses, it'd still be very over crowded. I imagine the northern line is similar.

Cookie_Monster

"Our Mark 3 carriages... are close to the end of their useful life unless one spends a lot of money on refurbishment. However, a Mark 3 carriage in itself is inert and needs something to pull it, a locomotive. That is a very traditional way of doing things because, given the relatively short distances we have in Ireland, it means uncoupling the locomotive and putting it to the other end,"

its been quoted already but that makes no sense to me at all...

so because they need to move the loco from one end to the other it makes them redundant

never mind the fact that the trains will sit in the station in Heuston or Cork or Galway or wherever for an hour or so between runnings anyway, a whole 5 mins of that devoted to running around is hardly a major issue.

in terms of shunting etc, could they fix semi-permanent rakes together to avoid this?

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

in terms of shunting etc, could they fix semi-permanent rakes together to avoid this?

Other than running around, I suspect that rakes stay together for weeks on end and only change if there is a problem or a maintenance milestone.

GM071class

Great article to be honest,

It's always lovely to see the management of IÉ getting a trashing.

With regards the scrapping of the Mk.3 fleet, It would have cost IÉ alot of money to install important features such as Retention Tanks, full wheelchair accessability and so on, however during a mid-life refurbishment it wouldn't have been anywhere near as 'hard on the pocket' as 4- tracking the Kildare Route for no good reason, or even giving a handful of 'passengers' in the west something not to use.

This kind of thinking seems far to lateral for the institutionalised board of CIÉ.
"Thowing money into a big hole is more there style!"

On the point of the push-pull Mk.3's,
Just to remind everyone that the 75mph Max Speed was only inforced when the vehicles were being pushed.
Even still, on most lines in the country, 75mph is only aspirational!

Also most of the 201's in storage don't have Push Pull capability, on a railcar railway it doesn't really matter much now anyway.

Regards,
Matt,

GM071class

Victor wrote: »

Other than running around, I suspect that rakes stay together for weeks on end and only change if there is a problem or a maintenance milestone.

In the interest of streamlining the shunting involved at the end of a day, IÉ has a practise of leaving the rakes together.

Normally, even during maintenance in the Valeting plants, the carriage sets were left together.

Pr!ck Fern is just trying to justify his, and IÉ's, stupid decisions!

KC61

Until the next tranche of 22K sets are delivered from next year, there is insufficient rolling stock to operate extra services on the Kildare route, particularly with Pace coming on stream this year. However, this was partly due to the fact that two 3-car sets were destroyed en route from Korea to Ireland and are to be replaced in the forthcoming delivery programme.

That element of the story is probably a tad sensationalist as the 4-tracking has delivered peak-hour improvements whereby intercity services can overtake commuter services in the event of trains being delayed rather than being kept behind them. I understand that the two outbound tracks (the old ones) are now being fully relaid so there is some time yet before the KRP is able to deliver its full potential.

monument

JHMEG wrote: »

monument, your how could it be overcrowded if people are using the bus in droves is simplistic. I'm not familiar with the northern line, but I know if you took 20% of the passengers off the Maynooth peak services trains and put them on buses, it'd still be very over crowded. I imagine the northern line is similar.

I did not say there is not still overcrowding, I questioned if overcrowding is still as much of an issue if so many people have abandoned the train for the bus.

Take your example of 20% of passengers off the Maynooth line, that's going to be a lot more bearable, overcrowding is going to be less of an issue. After all, trains are designed to be full at peak time.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

never mind the fact that the trains will sit in the station in Heuston or Cork or Galway or wherever for an hour or so between runnings anyway, a whole 5 mins of that devoted to running around is hardly a major issue.

In fairness to Irish Rail (and at this rate I'll accused of all sorts)... this does not seem to be happening as much as it used to be, not many trains at least are waiting around in Heuston any time I've been there recently.

GM071class wrote: »

It's always lovely to see the management of IÉ getting a trashing.

This might just sum up why most people here have no problem with the problems in the article.

People are rightly fed up with Irish Rail.

But misdirected anger doesn't work in solving problems.

DWCommuter

KC61 wrote: »

Until the next tranche of 22K sets are delivered from next year, there is insufficient rolling stock to operate extra services on the Kildare route, particularly with Pace coming on stream this year. However, this was partly due to the fact that two 3-car sets were destroyed en route from Korea to Ireland and are to be replaced in the forthcoming delivery programme.

That element of the story is probably a tad sensationalist as the 4-tracking has delivered peak-hour improvements whereby intercity services can overtake commuter services in the event of trains being delayed rather than being kept behind them. I understand that the two outbound tracks (the old ones) are now being fully relaid so there is some time yet before the KRP is able to deliver its full potential.

But surely the thrust of the story is the fact that after the next tranche of 22Ks are delivered next year, there still won't be any additional services provided.

JHMEG

monument wrote: »

Take your example of 20% of passengers off the Maynooth line, that's going to be a lot more bearable, overcrowding is going to be less of an issue. After all, trains are designed to be full at peak time.

Better yes, acceptable no. Comfortable also no. Some of the trains are so stuffed that I'd hate to think of what would happen if there was a fire.

penexpers

dowlingm wrote: »

You ask if 4-tracking the Kildare Line is a waste. Well, actually it is IF IT IS NOT USED AS INTENDED. The 4 tracking was intended so that IC express trains could overtake stopping commuter trains. If it's not being used for the purpose intended, it's a waste.

It is being used for this at the moment. I have often been on a train on a commuter train on the "slow" tracks that has been overtaken by an IC train on the "fast" tracks.

Also, part of the KRP was to revamp the signaling between Kildare and Heuston and this has delivered improvements. It now takes under a minute to cycle from green to red and back to green again whereas it used to take upwards of five minutes.

Sure the extra capacity hasn't been delivered, but I don't think the demand is there for it at the moment. Anyone that travels on the Kildare commuter route can see that the demand isn't there (and yes I know there's an argument that by having more trains running more people will use them but I am not sure it stacks up in this case).

I think to call the entire KRP a waste is slightly misleading.

penexpers

DWCommuter wrote: »

But surely the thrust of the story is the fact that after the next tranche of 22Ks are delivered next year, there still won't be any additional services provided.

I don't understand why 22Ks were going to be used for Hazelhatch-Heuston - my understanding is they are completelty unsuited to routes where there is frequent stopping/starting.

DWCommuter

penexpers wrote: »

I don't understand why 22Ks were going to be used for Hazelhatch-Heuston - my understanding is they are completelty unsuited to routes where there is frequent stopping/starting.

The additional services weren't just Hazelhatch - Heuston. Outer suburban improvements were also planned.

KC61

DWCommuter wrote: »

But surely the thrust of the story is the fact that after the next tranche of 22Ks are delivered next year, there still won't be any additional services provided.

I don't think that is necessarily the case - that will not be until the second half of next year and into 2012.

Things will have changed by then.

The article is referring to the end of 2010.

Victor

penexpers wrote: »

I don't understand why 22Ks were going to be used for Hazelhatch-Heuston - my understanding is they are completelty unsuited to routes where there is frequent stopping/starting.

They are to be used on the further out suburban services - Dundalk, Longford, Athlone, Portlaoise, etc. with a higher capacity than the existing 22000s - I presume by omitting most tables. This would cascade some 29000s from those routes to Drogheda, Maynooth and Kildare / Hazelhatch services.

KC61

penexpers wrote: »

I don't understand why 22Ks were going to be used for Hazelhatch-Heuston - my understanding is they are completelty unsuited to routes where there is frequent stopping/starting.

They may not be.

The additional 22K sets will free up 29K sets used on Longford and Dundalk outer suburban services which could be used on the Heuston-Newbridge-Kildare route and replace the 22Ks currently used there.

4 trains are needed to operate a half-hourly off-peak Heuston-Newbridge service, two more than are on the route currently.

FlameoftheWest

monument wrote: »

Sensationalism is a distraction. It won't be taken seriously.

105 million Euro spent to connect Ennis to Athenry going in the wrong direction says you are wrong.

DWCommuter

KC61 wrote: »

I don't think that is necessarily the case - that will not be until the second half of next year and into 2012.

Things will have changed by then.

The article is referring to the end of 2010.

The article states that the KRP will be completed later this year. (2010) It then states that planned extra trains for next year (2011) have been put on hold. An IE spokesperson is quoted as calling it "a pause in expansion that will be reletively short term".

Both your "things will have changed by then" quote and IEs "reletively short term" are heavily dependent on an economic upswing, which is hugely unpredictable anyway.