Ireland & tolerance of Christianity vs tolerance of other spiritual choices

Micilin Muc

I believe I show respect and tolerance for the spiritual choices of other people. Most of my friends show respect and tolerance for Muslims, Jews, atheists and agnostics and any other spiritual choices that someone may make.

Why is it that my friends don't show me the same respect because I am a Christian? The disrespect my non-Christian friends show to me and other Christians on Good Friday is sickening, and the only reason they seem to do it is for fun.

Am I alone?!

Xluna

How do they disrespect you?

Herbal Deity

In the last census, in 2006, about 90% of people at least claimed to be Christian.

That figure is either hugely distorted, or Ireland is more tolerant of Christianity than any other belief.

PDN

Political correctness rarely extends to anything that is perceived, rightly or not, as being the majority or in a position of power.

That is why you can crack jokes about white people yet would lose your job if you made the same comments about black people. It is why in the UK Scottish, Welsh or Irish nationalism is considered cool - but English nationalism is automatically equated with fascism.

Micilin Muc

Some of my friends have made jokes on Facebook about Jesus.

Others have sniggered when I declined their offer of attending a house party tonight.

This week they have made comments about my beliefs (my belief in Jesus Christ and his resurrection) and said that the crucifixion never happened.

rovert

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Some of my friends have made jokes on Facebook about Jesus.

Others have sniggered when I declined their offer of attending a house party tonight.

This week they have made comments about my beliefs (my belief in Jesus Christ and his resurrection) and said that the crucifixion never happened.

A lot of it is rebelling against their childhood and lets face what has been in the news.

Micilin Muc

rovert wrote: »

A lot of it is rebelling against their childhood and lets face what has been in the news.

I agree with both of these points.

Is the Good Friday rebellion party something people in their 30s or 40s do, or is it just people in their 20s? I don't believe any of my parents' friends would do the same.

For the record, I have no problem with any of my non-Christian friends drinking today, but it's when they label the party as a Good Friday party that I take issue with it. If they don't believe in Good Friday, then why do they call it a Good Friday party?!

mehfesto

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I agree with both of these points.

Is the Good Friday rebellion party something people in their 30s or 40s do, or is it just people in their 20s? I don't believe any of my parents' friends would do the same.

For the record, I have no problem with any of my non-Christian friends drinking today, but it's when they label the party as a Good Friday party that I take issue with it. If they don't believe in Good Friday, then why do they call it a Good Friday party?!

it is a religious day, but everyone in Ireland, Christian or not know it's goo Friday, as the numbers o shops closed today will show.

But why worry? They wouldn't have a good Friday party if the pubs weren't open on a bank holiday (or whatever it officially is). They don't believe you do, they not actually forcin you to do anything or live a certain way, so get over it.

It's not that big a deal.

jkl

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Some of my friends have made jokes on Facebook about Jesus.

Others have sniggered when I declined their offer of attending a house party tonight.

This week they have made comments about my beliefs (my belief in Jesus Christ and his resurrection) and said that the crucifixion never happened.

Perhaps they're not really friends?

Micilin Muc

mehfesto wrote: »

it is a religious day, but everyone in Ireland, Christian or not know it's goo Friday, as the numbers o shops closed today will show.

But why worry? They wouldn't have a good Friday party if the pubs weren't open on a bank holiday (or whatever it officially is). They don't believe you do, they not actually forcin you to do anything or live a certain way, so get over it.

It's not that big a deal.

To me it is a big deal. My friends don't show me the same respect I afford them in their beliefs. My belief is a very personal thing, and they don't respect it.

jkl wrote: »

Perhaps they're not really friends?

Nobody's friends please each other 100% of the time.

axer

Micilin Muc, I cannot see why there would be offence in calling a party a good friday party. As mehfesto posted, they wouldn't have to have it if it weren't for the forced religious law in this country.

Us atheists will leave ye christians/catholics alone as soon as ye stop interfering with our lives be it with religious law, education system, legal system and so on.

So until our lack of belief is respected why should we respect your beliefs?

Micilin Muc

axer wrote: »

Micilin Muc, I cannot see why there would be offence in calling a party a good friday party. As mehfesto posted, they wouldn't have to have it if it weren't for the forced religious law in this country.

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

axer wrote: »

Us atheists will leave ye christians/catholics alone as soon as ye stop interfering with our lives be it with religious law, education system, legal system and so on.

I said in my OP that I do leave my non-Christian friends alone.

• I believe the off licences and pubs should be open on Good Friday to whoever wants to use them.
• I believe parents should have the right to an education that doesn't force a religion upon them.
• I believe the legal system should cater for other beliefs apart from those of Christians.

My beliefs as above do respect the beliefs of my friends. Why shouldn't they respect my belief in Jesus and my customs at Easter?

PDN

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

Good point.

hivizman

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

In fact, the fast runs only between sunrise and sunset, so if you call your party a "Ramadan Iftar", hold it between the sunset and evening prayers, and don't serve alcohol, you wouldn't be disrespectful. Ramadan for many Muslims can be the party month. Just don't have a lunch party.

Stephentlig

MM you are truly blessed, Luke:6:28 ''Bless them that curse you, and pray for them that calumniate you.''

I invite you to Read the sermon on the mount and rejoice and be glad.


Pax Christi
Stephen

axer

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

If it has nothing to do with non-christians then why are the pubs around the country forced to close today?

Today under Irish law is good friday so your friends are using the legal name for this day and adding party to the end of it[FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif] because they are having a party.[/FONT]

Its like having a st. paddys day party without believing the story of st. patrick which is done all over the world.

Its like christians stealing a festival from pagans and renaming it and calling it there own even though it had nothing to do with them.

Its like christians stealing the story of a man named Horus renaming him and stealing him to be their leader even though he had nothing to do with them.

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I said in my OP that I do leave my non-Christian friends alone.

• I believe the off licences and pubs should be open on Good Friday to whoever wants to use them.
• I believe parents should have the right to an education that doesn't force a religion upon them.
• I believe the legal system should cater for other beliefs apart from those of Christians.

Thats all great but your religious masters don't agree and neither do the majority of your christian comrades.

Micilin Muc wrote: »

My beliefs as above do respect the beliefs of my friends. Why shouldn't they respect my belief in Jesus and my customs at Easter?

Until christians show athieists respect then christians are going to be laughed at for their beliefs based on the story a few people (possibly only two people) wrote a 1 or 2 thousand years ago.

I have no problem with people believing what they want as long their religion does not interfere with my life but for now it does affect non-christians lives so respect for your beliefs is not something to expect from us.

ToniTuddle

Just a thought but....have you mentioned how you feel about it?

Like have you actually tried saying to them

"Lads/Ladies seriously I'm not being funny here but these are my beliefs so would you mind not taking the mick as it's kinda hurtful"

Something as plain, simple, to the point and said in a civilised tone as that should shut them up.

philologos

OP: My friends used to make jokes about the Crucifixion and the like around me. Over time this has stopped, after people have noticed that I don't get offended about it and that my Christianity actually is important to me.

Try not let it get to you, but at the same time don't deny your faith before them.

tricky D

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

Muslims don't enforce Ramadan on us. They're happy enough to practice that in a secular manner unlike the way your practices are foisted on us.

rovert

If some of you want to get annoyed put terms like "Good Friday" , "God", "meat" etc into twitter

Slav

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Some of my friends have made jokes on Facebook about Jesus.

Others have sniggered when I declined their offer of attending a house party tonight.

This week they have made comments about my beliefs (my belief in Jesus Christ and his resurrection) and said that the crucifixion never happened.

Isn't it wonderful?

Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (Mat 5:11)

Looks like you are lucky (well, almost - as it's still persecution that you are missing)!

Fanny Cradock

axer wrote: »

If it has nothing to do with non-christians then why are the pubs around the country forced to close today?

Today under Irish law is good friday so your friends are using the legal name for this day and adding party to the end of it[FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif] because they are having a party.[/FONT]

Its like having a st. paddys day party without believing the story of st. patrick which is done all over the world.

Its like christians stealing a festival from pagans and renaming it and calling it there own even though it had nothing to do with them.

Its like christians stealing the story of a man named Horus renaming him and stealing him to be their leader even though he had nothing to do with them.


[/LIST]
Thats all great but your religious masters don't agree and neither do the majority of your christian comrades.


Until christians show athieists respect then christians are going to be laughed at for their beliefs based on the story a few people (possibly only two people) wrote a 1 or 2 thousand years ago.

I have no problem with people believing what they want as long their religion does not interfere with my life but for now it does affect non-christians lives so respect for your beliefs is not something to expect from us.

Before you start mouthing off about Horus and the like you better get you facts straight, buddy. It might do you good to step back from the anger that fuels your posts. I'm quite intolerant of bigots whatever their bent.

Anyway I think it is tempting for Christians to play the "persecuted card" (not saying it is the case here). I guess it is natural given the shift of societal outlooks from Christian to largely post-Christian. I believe that this is something we have to be cautious about. Maybe the OP simply needs to have a gentle word with friends if they have crossed the line. It is very possible that they don't mean anything by it.

axer

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Before you start mouthing off about Horus and the like you better get you facts straight, buddy. It might do you good to step back from the anger that fuels your posts.

No anger in my posts. Just trying to explain to the OP where his friends might be coming from if they are non-believers - I believe that is what the OP is wanting to know. (oh and by the way there are a huge number of co-incidental similarities between Horus and Jesus - a bit too co-incidental imo).

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm quite intolerant of bigots whatever their bent.

Good for you - don't know what that has got to do with me since what I believe is not being forced upon you by law. I am open to other ideas (if they are based on any proper evidence) whereas religious people tend not to be.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Anyway I think it is tempting for Christians to play the "persecuted card" (not saying it is the case here). I guess it is natural given the shift of societal outlooks from Christian to largely post-Christian. I believe that this is something we have to be cautious about. Maybe the OP simply needs to have a gentle word with friends if they have crossed the line. It is very possible that they don't mean anything by it.

With all due respect his friends will probably laugh at him for being offended and think he is a fundamentalist christian. Just telling it as it is.

ToniTuddle

axer wrote: »

With all due respect his friends will probably laugh at him for being offended and think he is a fundamentalist christian. Just telling it as it is.

If his friends laugh at him when he tries to get his point across that it has hurt him then they are not good friends.
Hopefully he can take a joke same as the rest of us. I've got a gang of mates that regularly rip apart the Christian faith.

If he knows what they are like then he should avoid them on days such as this. Or try and explain about how it is his beliefs and that's not going to change so if they wouldn't mind easing up a bit when he is around.

That's fair enough to ask.

Micilin Muc

axer wrote: »

Just trying to explain to the OP where his friends might be coming from if they are non-believers - I believe that is what the OP is wanting to know.

You're right. But I suppose what exactly I am trying to find out is is where their lack of respect for my beliefs (not those of other Christians) come from.

axer wrote: »

With all due respect his friends will probably laugh at him for being offended and think he is a fundamentalist christian.

I would seriously doubt that. I'm by no means a fundamentalist. There are plenty of things in scripture and other expectations of Catholics that I do not agree with and do not abide by.

axer

Micilin Muc wrote: »

You're right. But I suppose what exactly I am trying to find out is is where their lack of respect for my beliefs (not those of other Christians) come from.

It is probably by describing yourself as a christian people equate you to other christians and their beliefs. They probably don't see your beliefs as your own - but more like beliefs that were thought to you (like were thought to all children in Ireland). Like if you were born in pakistan you would probably be a muslim - get my point? So maybe that is why they don't take your beliefs seriously and think you won't be offended by their jokes etc.

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I would seriously doubt that. I'm by no means a fundamentalist. There are plenty of things in scripture and other expectations of Catholics that I do not agree with and do not abide by.

I believe you but I was making the point that they might think you are a fundamentalist because you get offended by something like calling a party a "Good Friday Party".

Micilin Muc

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, ie not let my friends get to me and to ask them to ease off.

BTW, this is my first time in the Christianity forum and I am surprised at the amount of non-Christians in it, quite ironic! I was only looking for advice from people who would empathise with me!

axer

Micilin Muc wrote: »

BTW, this is my first time in the Christianity forum and I am surprised at the amount of non-Christians in it, quite ironic! I was only looking for advice from people who would empathise with me!

Ok, sorry, thought you were looking for some possible reasons instead of just empathy.

You should pop over to the atheist & agnostics forum where you will find a few christians knocking about. Its good to debate and hear from the other side since it is better to try and understand where the other side is coming from to live in peace with them.

ToniTuddle

axer wrote: »

Its good to debate and hear from the other side since it is better to try and understand where the other side is coming from to live in peace with them.

All religions should listen to this part of what you are saying! :pac:

drkpower

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Good Friday is nothing do with someone who doesn't believe in Christianity. If I had a whole lot of Muslim friends, I wouldn't organise a party during Ramadan and call it a Ramadan Party. That would be disrespectful to my friends.

Amen to that. Shame the Christians who run the country have decided to stop many non-Christians from doing as we please on this day. How much respect is that showing? That disrespect actually has practical repurcussions, as opposed to the repurcussions you are feeling that stem simply from your own personal sense of being slighted by your friends going partying. Why dont you just 'turn the other cheek'?

And calling it a Good Friday party is surely just a matter of nomenclature. The state has called the day Good Friday. If it was called Bank Holiday Friday, perhaps it would be a Bank Holiday Friday Party?

Fanny Cradock

axer wrote: »

No anger in my posts. Just trying to explain to the OP where his friends might be coming from if they are non-believers - I believe that is what the OP is wanting to know. (oh and by the way there are a huge number of co-incidental similarities between Horus and Jesus - a bit too co-incidental imo).

We have had the Horus debate many times before - use the search function. Frankly, the evidence is less than compelling; it's nothing more than misinformation and half-truths - much like some of your other claims about Christianity that you have needlessly brought into this debate.

axer wrote: »

Good for you - don't know what that has got to do with me since what I believe is not being forced upon you by law.

It's all about you. Poor diddums! Have you ever thought about the rest of us non-Catholic Christians? I don't want to send my kids to a RC school, nor do I want to be denied the option of having a drink of Good Friday. Yet unlike you, I don't feel the need to speak for anybody else or make childish threats.

axer wrote: »

I am open to other ideas (if they are based on any proper evidence) whereas religious people tend not to be.

Ironic that you would accuse Christians of such a thing after you have displayed a large degree of ignorance in your last post. Read the charter. No more generalizations.

axer wrote: »

With all due respect his friends will probably laugh at him for being offended and think he is a fundamentalist christian. Just telling it as it is.

No, you're not telling it how it is, you are informing us of your opinion. There is a difference.

Micilin Muc

axer wrote: »

Ok, sorry, thought you were looking for some possible reasons instead of just empathy.

You should pop over to the atheist & agnostics forum where you will find a few christians knocking about. Its good to debate and hear from the other side since it is better to try and understand where the other side is coming from to live in peace with them.

Well I suppose my asking for reasons was more rhetorical than literal, although I am interested in the opinions of non-Christians. I have visited A&A a few times but would find it futile, mainly because others would naturally expect a Catholic's opinions to be the same as the official line of the Catholic Church, which is not the case with me.

axer

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

We have had the Horus debate many times before - use the search function. Frankly, the evidence is less than compelling; it's nothing more than misinformation and half-truths - much like some of your other claims about Christianity that you have needlessly brought into this debate.

Sure, in your opinion. My point was that christianity takes names and festive periods and makes them their own so why can non-christians take the name of the day and make it a party instead especially when our law calls it the same name.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It's all about you. Poor diddums! Have you ever thought about the rest of us non-Catholic Christians? I don't want to send my kids to a RC school, nor do I want to be denied the option of having a drink of Good Friday.

Good for you. Lets join the fight to have these ridiculus things changed and create a secular society in Ireland where people are free to believe or not believe without interference from others.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yet unlike you, I don't feel the need to speak for anybody else or make childish threats.

Not sure where you are getting this from. I am speaking for myself and trying to give the OP some insight into the way his friends might be thinking.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Ironic that you would accuse Christians of such a thing after you have displayed a large degree of ignorance in your last post. Read the charter. No more generalizations.

Ok, buddy.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

No, you're not telling it how it is, you are informing us of your opinion. There is a difference.

I am informing how I see it will be. Of course it is opinion since I am semi speaking hypothetically since I do not know the OPs friends.

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I have visited A&A a few times but would find it futile, mainly because others would naturally expect a Catholic's opinions to be the same as the official line of the Catholic Church, which is not the case with me.

Micilin Muc, why would you call yourself a Catholic if you do not believe the entire Catholic religion? Why not call yourself a Christian or just spiritual instead and come to your own conclusions instead of following a specific dogma?
By calling yourself Catholic you are suggesting that you follow the Catholic church's teachings which is why people are prejudging your beliefs to that accord.

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

axer wrote: »

Micilin Muc, I cannot see why there would be offence in calling a party a good friday party. As mehfesto posted, they wouldn't have to have it if it weren't for the forced religious law in this country.

Us atheists will leave ye christians/catholics alone as soon as ye stop interfering with our lives be it with religious law,education system, legal system and so on.

So until our lack of belief is respected why should we respect your beliefs?

the education system you refer to, down here in limerick there are a number of religious orders that gave up there own buildings in order for schools to be opened in them so would you rather that these orders take back there buildings and close down the school because it interfers with atheists beliefs? i for one am greatful for this as i would had to travel very far on foot every morning if the redemptorists didnt let us use there building and surrounding grounds and were also nice enough to let us use the church for various plays and activities ( that non-christian students took part in and enjoyed) and also when your on about the education system and religion if your reffereing to religion being thought in school, if a student does not want to take part in the class he does not have to I know this because there were a number of students of different faiths in my class that did not take part ( inlcuding an orthodox christian who did not want to learn about other faiths because religion being thought in schools these days is not just christianty it deals with every religion and not just religion but it teaches about morals and deals with things like drug abuse and abortion and various other things that are valid in todays society) obviously you have not been to school for a very long time, I left last year so you can trust me on this! so atheists that go on about the education system ye would want to educate yourselves on it!

axer

TEMPLAR KNIGHT wrote: »

the education system you refer to, down here in limerick there are a number of religious orders that gave up there own buildings in order for schools to be opened in them so would you rather that these orders take back there buildings and close down the school because it interfers with atheists beliefs? i for one am greatful for this as i would had to travel very far on foot every morning if the redemptorists didnt let us use there building and surrounding grounds and were also nice enough to let us use the church for various plays and activities ( that non-christian students took part in and enjoyed) and also when your on about the education system and religion if your reffereing to religion being thought in school, if a student does not want to take part in the class he does not have to I know this because there were a number of students of different faiths in my class that did not take part ( inlcuding an orthodox christian who did not want to learn about other faiths because religion being thought in schools these days is not just christianty it deals with every religion and not just religion but it teaches about morals and deals with things like drug abuse and abortion and various other things that are valid in todays society) obviously you have not been to school for a very long time, I left last year so you can trust me on this! so atheists that go on about the education system ye would want to educate yourselves on it!

I think it is worse in the primary school system where it actually matters. That is the time when religious orders try to brainwash children as they are easy targets. Those schools should no longer be funded by the goverment and new secular schools should be established to replace them.

I think when children go to secondary schools they have a greater ability to think for themselves but the only problem is that the majority of them have already been through a catholic primary school where they were thought 2+2=4 followed by another "fact" that god exists. Do not under estimate the effect this has on a childs permeable mind. How are they suppose to distingush between what is fact and what is mere belief?

You don't need religion to have "good" morals. Morality is something children will pick up from their parents and peers.