Rats fleeing a sinking ship

goat2

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a bit pissed off with all this talk of immigration. All these people are in effect abandoning they're communities, families and country, they're leaving this state to the corrupt money hungry "fat cats" that they're complaining about so much. Whatever happened to the fighting Irish, no ones prepared to make a stand for this country instead they flee with their tails between their legs.

Is it really the government that is to blame when we do nothing to stand in their way?

have you been watching the news at all, the country is broke, aib and boi are now being bailed out, these young people did not put we where we are, but they have been let down by the fatcats, they would rather pick stones than draw the dole, fair dues to them,
at least they are not like some of our own, who in the last ten years drew dole, sat on their assh-- when there was plenty work about, those same ones are still doing it
good luck to those who leave for work, and may they prosper

Doop

My 2c

Everyone has to do what is best for themselves and their family, sitting around taking handouts and applying endlessly for jobs that you're over qualified for gets tedious.
My motto ... If everyone looks after themselves, everyone gets looked after.

I left "the sinking ship" 2 years ago, and do plan to return at some stage. Ireland is my home and always will be. But im not going to sit around being depressed. I'm getting valuable experience in my chosen field. And when I return I will bring my experience back with me, which in turn will be valuable to the Irish economy.

Thousands of others will do the same, better to have experience working then experience queuing for handouts. I think it’s a fair statement to say many of the Irish overseas will return home at some stage, some will not but that is the price we pay for mismanagement of the economy.

Our country provided me with free education for which I am grateful; however whats the point in having thousands of highly educated people standing around in dole queues.

Run free little Irish graduates, go explore, have fun, get experience

Resi12

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

You make it sound so easy but seriously well done and don't listen to anyone calling you a rat. The only rats from Ireland reside in The Dáil at the moment.

Dr_Phil

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Just as a matter of interest: how do you feel stealing american jobs?






*I'm only messing with you, I robbed one of yours

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

No need to call me ignorant. I am far from ignorant in this case. Where did I imply that the dole was the lowest anybody could sink? That's a very naive thought to say the least.

You have a job, I do not. I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do. You are in no position to tell me what is the right or wrong thing to do.

I asked you what should I do and you link me to your group? I should join that? Is that going to get me a job in the near future? I don't think so. It's easy for you to say "oh stay here and collect your 196 a week, emigrating is wrong"...

It's selfish to want the educated to stay, because we just should...



You have a job, which is what I am emigrating for. Therefore you cannot tell me what I am doing is wrong.




Wrong... Not everything


Can you explain this for me?

and that nobody will by merit of mere birth deny the greater wellbeing of the nation for their own personal gain

You missed a few things in this post

Also. What are the people on social welfare going to do? What should they do while they wait for things to change. Reform will take years, if not more. You want people to stay and not emigrate, but what exactly are these people to do when there is no work in the country for them?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Doop wrote: »

Run free little Irish graduates, go explore, have fun, get experience

This made me laugh... Thanks :P

Amhran Nua

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You missed a few things in this post

On the subject of missing things, look back to your post #78 in this thread, then raise your eyes about a centimeter to my two sentence post above that, which is my actual position, not the position you seem bound and determined to misrepresent instead. Its a bit pointless continuing the discussion when you make up your own arguments and then tackle them instead of what was really said. I'll leave you to your quixotic endeavours on that note.

snow ghost

Emigrants are certainly not 'rats fleeing a sinking ship'.

The Rats are most definitely still here in Ireland - sitting in government gnawing away at the country; feasting on the spoils robbed from the table of the rest of society and feeding their financially obese fat cat friends.

That said some people here are fiddling while Rome burns... time for a political revolution.

The diaspora has always kept the Irish ship afloat - from fenian support in the war of independence to Irish-American investment and goodwill in recent years... invariably they will again with no thanks from the rats here, other than seeing King Rat giving Obama a bowl of shamrock on Paddy's Day.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I wouldn't hold it against anyone that wanted to leave to find work elsewhere. I wouldn't advise it though - this is our country, our home, where our friends and family are, and I think thats worth fighting for. Put the watered-beer-peddling publicans and the politicans with their ghoulish mé féinism and post colonial wisdom on the boat and lets run the place properly, Ireland could be an outstanding country with just a little effort.

Its not right that people should be forced to emigrate against their will through the incompetent mismanagement of the place, and by the decisions of a minister whose father infamously said "we can't all live on this little island", for which he should have been run out of politics.

I'm not standing for it and I don't think you should either.

I refer back to your initial post. Where you said you do not advise people to emigrate. I asked you what you advise people to do and you suggested they join your group. I mean seriously... An extremely weak arguement to say the least.

You don't have any good advice because there is nothing for the people to do but keep applying for jobs here, which is not helping by the way. The only real option is to emigrate. Which has worked in the past. The only reason you don't want people to emigrate is to suit your own agenda. Nothing short of what politicians are doing now. I know you think you are trying to help people, but that's not what it's comming accross as. You cannot help anybody in that situation but heckle them for moving abroad. It's a very very selfish view and one that does not have any real footing. "don't emigrate because... eh... because... I actually don't have a reason". All that matters is how these potential emigrants benifit from staying in this country?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

On the subject of missing things, look back to your post #78 in this thread, then raise your eyes about a centimeter to my two sentence post above that, which is my actual position, not the position you seem bound and determined to misrepresent instead. Its a bit pointless continuing the discussion when you make up your own arguments and then tackle them instead of what was really said. I'll leave you to your quixotic endeavours on that note.

You cannot continue this debate as you do not have the answers to the questions. You fail to give direct answers and cannot say why people should not move away.

I think you find I am making perfect sense. What is quite quixotical is staying here while there are no jobs...

Tigger

my cats breath smells of cat food

m@cc@

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a bit pissed off with all this talk of immigration. All these people are in effect abandoning they're communities, families and country, they're leaving this state to the corrupt money hungry "fat cats" that they're complaining about so much. Whatever happened to the fighting Irish, no ones prepared to make a stand for this country instead they flee with their tails between their legs.

Is it really the government that is to blame when we do nothing to stand in their way?

True enough. It'll be a shock to the Anglo countries to see a load of Irish turn up on their doorstep looking for work. Especially with the lack of precedent.

ricman

THIS country got screwed by corrupt ,greedy ,immoral bankers and cronyism ,and regulators who where not exactly watching the financial , lending structure and board members who where either blind, dumb not doing there job to a reasonable standard.
SO now we are spending 20 billion minimum to rescue anglo ,and leave a debt for generations to come.SO a graduate who cant get a job is supposed to want to stay here and work in mc,donalds for minimum wage.
And most of the people responsible for this mess are gonna retire on large pensions .
THE property market could not have got out of control under a strict regulation regime.And all these people get to keep their bonus,s they got from creating a false market.
And the higher paid civil servants are on fantastic wages and pensions.The best in europe.The governments plan is more cuts, more taxes, that s no way to get out of a recession.
IN the usa its fraud to encourage your own employees to buy a large amount of shares in your own bank, and transfer money just before the accounts are due.
And all these banks got audited every year .Were the audits carried out properly.
SO an average person who has a mortgage for 200k, in negative eqiuty
is paying twice 4 the banks, thru taxes etc and he still has to pay the full mortgage to the bank.
The government should have let anglo go ,and just supported
aib and boi.
LEAVE it to the mercys of the market like any company thats
badly run.

zootroid

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a bit pissed off with all this talk of immigration. All these people are in effect abandoning they're communities, families and country, they're leaving this state to the corrupt money hungry "fat cats" that they're complaining about so much. Whatever happened to the fighting Irish, no ones prepared to make a stand for this country instead they flee with their tails between their legs.

Is it really the government that is to blame when we do nothing to stand in their way?

Congratulations, you have written the most ridiculous, and not to mention offensive post that I have ever read on here.

Comparing people to rats for wanting to make a better life for themselves is not on.

Once I'm in a position to emigrate, I'm off. This country had a hard enough time providing services and investing in infrastructure that are paid for by taxes, before the banks needed to be bailed out. Why would I want to remain in a corrupt country where in the future a high proportion of my taxes are going to bail out the corruption, greed, and incompetence of the very small minority who have almost bankrupted the country?

Hells Belle

meh..call me a rat if you want, I'm sure I'll still be upset about that comment when I'm living in sunny Queensland :rolleyes:

Amhran Nua

Just remember folks, while it may work out for some, the land of milk and honey usually isn't, especially in a global recession, and those who painted the rosy picture are nowhere to be found. Emigration isn't touring Oz for your gap year.

Hells Belle

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Just remember folks, while it may work out for some, the land of milk and honey usually isn't, especially in a global recession, and those who painted the rosy picture are nowhere to be found. Emigration isn't touring Oz for your gap year.

I don't think for a second its going to be rosy, anyone who has tried to get PR to Australia or anywhere else will tell you that, the process in itself nearly gave me a nervous breakdown, cost a lot of our savings and cost me some family members.
The life we have here is also far from rosy, we are just above the poverty line struggling to pay bills, a mortgage (which is quite small btw) and buy food and its getting tiresome tbh. I'm not having my children put up with it for a minute more than I have to, when we have a shot at actually living somewhere else. I don't hate Ireland at all, I just love my family more.

Irish Musician

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Just remember folks, while it may work out for some, the land of milk and honey usually isn't, especially in a global recession, and those who painted the rosy picture are nowhere to be found. Emigration isn't touring Oz for your gap year.

A lot of my mates can't get work as musicians back home in Ireland.I am doing ok,but it can be a bit of a graft looking for the work.I won't be heading back for a while.

ejmaztec

zootroid wrote: »

Congratulations, you have written the most ridiculous, and not to mention offensive post that I have ever read on here.

Comparing people to rats for wanting to make a better life for themselves is not on.

Once I'm in a position to emigrate, I'm off. This country had a hard enough time providing services and investing in infrastructure that are paid for by taxes, before the banks needed to be bailed out. Why would I want to remain in a corrupt country where in the future a high proportion of my taxes are going to bail out the corruption, greed, and incompetence of the very small minority who have almost bankrupted the country?

He's only describing what's been happening in Ireland for centuries, which is why there are 70 or 80 million people on the planet with Irish roots.

Every Irish government since 1922 has prayed for as many people to emigrate as possible, because not one of the governments since then has given a sh1t about keeping the population in the country.

The only time that any Irish government shows any interest in an Irish emigrant, is when the emigrant has gone to some far-flung country and built up a successful international business. Then the Irish politicians head off in droves to plant their heads down the guy's pants (usually on a St Paddy's Day annual expenses-fiddling wankfest).

Thanks to the history of emigration, most people don't hesitate, they just take off. If you don't emigrate, and hang back waiting for a job to come up, you get accused of sponging off the state, so you have even more incentive to get out.

So, when tens of thousands of people leave the country, because the politicians have failed them, those very same politicians will be left behind doing the same God-awful incompetent jobs they've always done. They're the ones who should feck off, because they're of no use to anyone.

Amhran Nua

Succinctly put, sir.

gurramok

A couple of posters are loving it in the US. If I was jumping ship, I would not go there.

Their health system and the lack of social support when you lose your job scares the crap out of me nevermind the crime rate

landsleaving

ScumLord wrote: »

Whatever happened to the fighting Irish,

I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread, but in answer to that, they moved to America to set up sports teams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football

IvyTheTerrible

I left Ireland, not to abandon my community, family or friends, but because I couldn't get a job (and not just jobs I was qualified for, ANY job), and I was fed up signing on. So when I got a job over here, I jumped at the chance. Believe me, if I could have stayed in Ireland I would have.

I don't see what's wrong with moving abroad for an opportunity if you don"t have a mortgage or something like that tying you to home.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Just remember folks, while it may work out for some, the land of milk and honey usually isn't, especially in a global recession, and those who painted the rosy picture are nowhere to be found. Emigration isn't touring Oz for your gap year.

So pessimistic. When you have emmigrated to find work, when you have been on social welfare for 18 months, when you have no other options, then your opinion counts. Until then, your posts will continue to come accross as being very selfish. You really are trying to stop people emigrating, why? How does that help this country in any way?

It seems from the amount of posters in here that emigrating is a great thing. It just doesn't suit some peoples agenda here in Ireland... You say you don't begrudge people emigrating, then why are you trying to stop them? Why all this negative propaganda rubbish?

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I left Ireland, not to abandon my community, family or friends, but because I couldn't get a job (and not just jobs I was qualified for, ANY job), and I was fed up signing on. So when I got a job over here, I jumped at the chance. Believe me, if I could have stayed in Ireland I would have.

I don't see what's wrong with moving abroad for an opportunity if you don"t have a mortgage or something like that tying you to home.

I wouldn't listen to the crap people are trying to tell you. No emigrant has, as some posters put it, abandoned thier country. Remember that your country abandoned you, and that's why you are where you are. The more people emigrate the better it will be in the long run. The ministers fail to see our potential as graduates and are not given the chance when we come out of college/university. We are put to one side. They do not care for us.

Rented Mule

Dr_Phil wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest: how do you feel stealing american jobs?






*I'm only messing with you, I robbed one of yours

Not too bad. I worked for an American company who supported another American company in Dublin.

Rented Mule

landsleaving wrote: »

I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread, but in answer to that, they moved to America to set up sports teams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football

A school founded by French Jesuits. lol

FruitLover

Well OP and others arguing against emigration, you can make yourselves martyrs if you like, but I put up with that scanger-infested, begrudger-riddled, rain-drenched, church-whipped, badly-governed, overpriced little dump of an island for 20-odd years before I got my act together; as far as I'm concerned, I've earned the right to live somewhere nice instead without feeling guilty about all the poor suckers still stuck there.