Are you all pleased with your solar panels for hot water heating

freddyuk

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Would this indicate the need for a heat dump into the central heating radiator system?

You just T off the flow pipe from collector and divert via valve into a sized radiator. But you have no attic so it may be a better solution to have a proper "dump" on the wall outside. Usually a finned pipe in zig zag fashion. I think Ebay have some?

dr.fuzzenstein

freddyuk wrote: »

You just T off the flow pipe from collector and divert via valve into a sized radiator. But you have no attic so it may be a better solution to have a proper "dump" on the wall outside. Usually a finned pipe in zig zag fashion. I think Ebay have some?

Was thinking, as herself is running the heat non-stop anyway, to be able to maybe have an auxiliary input into the heating system, but in aq different way.
For example, if the boiler is going above a certain temperature, I could have a switch that activates an independent circulation pump, taking away heat from the boiler to the radiators.
This should be easy enough, as that (water) circuit already exists, it's coming off the pellet boiler to heat the water.
It would simply work the other way round.
So, temp switch, cables into circ pump, boiler heats up, pump kicks in and heat is taken away to radiators.
It mightn't even make a huge difference, but might be enough in spring and autum when she runs the heat like we're in Siberia.

As for the thing with the eaves, yes, I think you're on to something there.

freddyuk

But it is only the really hottest days when the by pass will operate so it does not really work ? You either store the energy as hot water or dump it to outside to avoid damaging the system. The cost to integrate will never be recovered. So I don't think you should consider this at all.

a postere

How long does it take to pay back the total additional cost of solar water heating ?

gabbo is coming

duffman21 wrote: »

Roundy,

Will you PM me the details of the company you used.

Thanks

Me too please

dr.fuzzenstein

gabbo is coming wrote: »

Me too please

Who is Gabbo?

josip

a postere wrote: »

How long does it take to pay back the total additional cost of solar water heating ?

10+ years for us.

dr.fuzzenstein

josip wrote: »

10+ years for us.

Yikes! How so?

dvdman1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yikes! How so?

10years + not incl unforseen issues which in life always happen..
Solid fuel is cheaper to install and the quality of heat is unreal... If you have access to a wood source (rural) the fuel cost is next to nothing but I do concede full on coal expenditure can build.
The big thing about solid fuel is that its reliability and standards are well known and easily installed by lots of trades men not a few specialists.

dvdman1

dvdman1 wrote: »

10years + not incl unforseen issues which in life always happen..
Solid fuel is cheaper to install and the quality of heat is unreal... If you have access to a wood source (rural) the fuel cost is next to nothing but I do concede full on coal expenditure can build.
The big thing about solid fuel is that its reliability and standards are well known and easily installed by lots of trades men not a few specialists.

Solid fuel boilers are so simple I built my own (seriously) €700 of steel and welding rods etc. works well, it was supposed to supplement the oil but now the oil supplements the turf but only if the solar thermal fails to provide the heat needed.

It's two years now since I ordered any heating oil.

As for cost savings using solar. too many variables to even to be able to provide an estimate, all I know that I light the fire less often and the oil boiler fires even fewer times.

dr.fuzzenstein

dvdman1 wrote: »

10years + not incl unforseen issues which in life always happen..
Solid fuel is cheaper to install and the quality of heat is unreal... If you have access to a wood source (rural) the fuel cost is next to nothing but I do concede full on coal expenditure can build.
The big thing about solid fuel is that its reliability and standards are well known and easily installed by lots of trades men not a few specialists.

| do have a solid fuel stove, but it doesn't do hot water or radiators, that's where the pellet burner comes in. The solar will provide the hot water for the summer.
With the pellet burner I went the "proper" and "official" route with a properly licensed installer and government grant.
When I calculated how much I spent, even after grant and how much it would have cost to just import the damn thing from abroad and get any plumber to install it, I decided to never go down the official route again.
The solid fuel stove was bought for a few hundred bucks, brought it up in a van I borrowed from a mate, neighbours helped me move it in, I installed the entire thing myself.
Cost me less than a grand. Check it out:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057344975
The same will be for the solar. I will buy the bits I need and install them myself as far as possible. I had a look at the "official" and "accredited" installers and decided €4500+ for a system without tank and plus installation is a joke. That's too much money to give to some politicians relative.
Whenever there's a grant available, you know it's a ripoff.

THE DON FANUCCI

going starting a new build soon.
my house will be facing east to the front and west to the back. it will have gable ends not hip roof.

can i attach my solar tubes to the rear of the house? they will be facing west.

is this ok?

is there any regs that say i must face them to the strongest direction of sun intake?

(ps i dont want the ugly solar tubes to be seen on the front of the house)

John T Carroll

THE DON FANUCCI wrote: »

going starting a new build soon.
my house will be facing east to the front and west to the back. it will have gable ends not hip roof.

can i attach my solar tubes to the rear of the house? they will be facing west.

is this ok?

is there any regs that say i must face them to the strongest direction of sun intake?

(ps i dont want the ugly solar tubes to be seen on the front of the house)

If one can believe this solar compliance calculator (attached) then a West facing array will only harvest 8% less than a South facing array, you can play around with it yourself re house area etc.

Qualitymark

I was just about to order solar panels from a particular energy firm, used by an acquaintance for his successful installation. He told me last month that he was very satisfied with them, but would now - five years or so after installation - have to call the lads back, because the panels were getting less efficient. He promised to get me the name of the firm.

Then I ran into him again the other day, and he said "Aha, I didn't give you the name of that company. But I don't know that you want to use them. They came and looked at my panels again, did a small fix, and then the system went wrong after they'd gone. Now they won't answer my calls at all. So I won't be recommending them."

Back to the drawing board…

rolion

Qualitymark wrote: »

I was just about to order solar panels from a particular energy firm, used by an acquaintance for his successful installation. He told me last month that he was very satisfied with them, but would now - five years or so after installation - have to call the lads back, because the panels were getting less efficient. He promised to get me the name of the firm.

Then I ran into him again the other day, and he said "Aha, I didn't give you the name of that company. But I don't know that you want to use them. They came and looked at my panels again, did a small fix, and then the system went wrong after they'd gone. Now they won't answer my calls at all. So I won't be recommending them."

Back to the drawing board…

Hi,

Sorry for having experienced so bad story...

Got my system supplied by a local shop. Is designed and manufactured locally, in Dublin factory. Comes in 40 tubes/300l, full kit.
Then, it's been "dropped" on my roof by a friend that is authorised by SEAI to install and ... no issues so far with the system. Waiting for my gas bill to read near to zero...
In a cloudy day, at collector I have around 45" and in the cylinder top around 40ish. The gas boiler works so little now .

Let me know if you want my details PMed over to you...

Regards

quentingargan

rolion wrote: »

Hi,

Sorry for having experienced so bad story...

Got my system supplied by a local shop. Is designed and manufactured locally, in Dublin factory. Comes in 40 tubes/300l, full kit.
Then, it's been "dropped" on my roof by a friend that is authorised by SEAI to install and ... no issues so far with the system. Waiting for my gas bill to read near to zero...
In a cloudy day, at collector I have around 45" and in the cylinder top around 40ish. The gas boiler works so little now .

Let me know if you want my details PMed over to you...

Regards

No systems are manufactured in Dublin. There is a lot of re-badging that happens in Ireland, but I think there is only one manufacturer of tubes, and that is in N. Ireland.

I used to be a fan of solar thermal, and have tubes myself, but I find that performance has reduced over the years, and I suspect that heat pipes within the tubes have lost some of their effectiveness. I don't have datalogging to give the stats, but I just notice that the water isn't heating as quickly as it used to.

Typically, if you take the claimed output for a 40 tube, 300L system which is savings of 1775 KwHrs per year, taking gas at 9c/KwHr, (or off-peak electricity at 8c) that is a saving of about €160 per year.

Evern three years you will need your glycol changed at a cost of €300, so that brings your savings down to about €60 per year. You will also have other failures in pump stations, expansion vessels etc., over time.

To my mind, PV has come down so much in price that it makes more sense- no glycol to change. If only ESB would reinstate its scheme of buying surplus power. But even without that, if you used an Immersun to divert your surplus electricity to the immersion, I think solar PV for heating water would make more sense today.

John T Carroll

A friend of mine got his changed in Dublin for €150 last Friday, he has a 40 tube/300 Litre set up with the tube array on the ground in his garden, don't know if this makes it any cheaper or not. He was told that the glycol mixture cost €60.

rolion

Hi,

I read the post above and while I hate saying you're right in relation to numbers...I had installed the system and is now at 50 degrees full cylinder.The boiler gas takes it from 50 to 55 in seconds...rather than from 10-15 degrees mains water temp.

After installation and grant I end up with €1500 to pay back in few years.

If I had to stay with "white nights" crunching numbers I will not had installed solar tubes or PV panels...

Thanks for sharing but is too late for me...next month my entire roof surface will be covered by panels.

Regards

John T Carroll

John T Carroll wrote: »

A friend of mine got his changed in Dublin for €150 last Friday, he has a 40 tube/300 Litre set up with the tube array on the ground in his garden, don't know if this makes it any cheaper or not. He was told that the glycol mixture cost €60.

Last year I bought 10 litres of pre-mixed glycol from a local builders merchants for €50.

Wow I checked post 1 and say over 6 K installation. You could probably get 5-6 Kw/p Solar PV connected these days for that money ! Shame we have no Feed-In-Tariff !

You can do so much more with solar PV than heat the water, the central heating heats it most of the year anyway so I don't see the benefit.

John T Carroll

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow I checked post 1 and say over 6 K installation. You could probably get 5-6 Kw/p Solar PV connected these days for that money ! Shame we have no Feed-In-Tariff !

You can do so much more with solar PV than heat the water, the central heating heats it most of the year anyway so I don't see the benefit.

Have our green government revised the (non) FIT yet?, I thought I read something on the Boards about that.

John T Carroll

John T Carroll wrote: »

Have our green government revised the (non) FIT yet?, I thought I read something on the Boards about that.

Yeah this is where I read it too, I think something is in the works.

I hope they can allow more then 5Kw to the grid on single phase the next time around and remove the penalty for not "using" enough electricity.

murphaph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah this is where I read it too, I think something is in the works.

I hope they can allow more then 5Kw to the grid on single phase the next time around and remove the penalty for not "using" enough electricity.

Doubt they will. Here in our region in Germany we are only allowed up to 4.6kW on a single phase as more could throw the local grid out of balance. If we spread it across all 3 phases we can go up to 30kW with no special checks required.... But 3 phase domestic supplies are the norm here.

cerastes

murphaph wrote: »

Doubt they will. Here in our region in Germany we are only allowed up to 4.6kW on a single phase as more could throw the local grid out of balance. If we spread it across all 3 phases we can go up to 30kW with no special checks required.... But 3 phase domestic supplies are the norm here.

3 phase domestic supplies are the norm? For what use? Am I misinterpreting that?

cerastes

cerastes wrote: »

3 phase domestic supplies are the norm? For what use? Am I misinterpreting that?

I can only guess that it helps balance the load on the network.

dr.fuzzenstein

cerastes wrote: »

3 phase domestic supplies are the norm? For what use? Am I misinterpreting that?

I am German and have never seen 3 phase in a domestic house over there. Only ever in industrial units

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I am German and have never seen 3 phase in a domestic house over there. Only ever in industrial units

Most German homes have it, at least in baden wurttemberg where my partner is from.

I don't think many people are aware of it or care, it's the Norm !

It's a shame it's not the same here either considering the ESB adopted a lot of German specs according to Wiki.

John T Carroll

Deleted User wrote: »

Most German homes have it, at least in baden wurttemberg where my partner is from.

I don't think many people are aware of it or care, it's the Norm !

It's a shame it's not the same here either considering the ESB adopted a lot of German specs according to Wiki.

Certainly German specs, that's why we had 380 Volt three phase industrial here, I worked at a pharmaceutical plant, opened in the early 70s where the supply was stepped down from 220KV to all the substations at 10Kv, then 440V but because all the motors were English supplied ( mainly Brooks and Parsons Peebles) at 440V a few cockups were made because when the odd one was sent away for rewind without specific details, they came back rewound to 380V.
One big advantage of home supplied three phase is that one could have a nice hot water flow with our present puny electric showers because you could get almost double (1.732) the flowrate for the same amps and cable loading.

John T Carroll

John T Carroll wrote: »

Certainly German specs, that's why we had 380 Volt three phase industrial here, I worked at a pharmaceutical plant, opened in the early 70s where the supply was stepped down from 220KV to all the substations at 10Kv, then 440V but because all the motors were English supplied ( mainly Brooks and Parsons Peebles) at 440V a few cockups were made because when the odd one was sent away for rewind without specific details, they came back rewound to 380V.
One big advantage of home supplied three phase is that one could have a nice hot water flow with our present puny electric showers because you could get almost double (1.732) the flowrate for the same amps and cable loading.

I have a pumped electric shower that takes the water from the cylinder that's heated by the central heating most of the year, I don't get electric showers that heat the water , most I've seen are in homes with central heating.

There's a great flow of water from mine, where as the electric heated ones are crap.

In Germany the water pressure is really high from the mains and having high pressure from all taps is really cool and you don't usually need a pump I believe, The size of the water pipes in the cellar in my partners parents is unreal compared to the puny pipe we have coming from the mains, they don't even have tanks in the attic !

The greatest advantage to 3 phase in Ireland will be when people move to EV or have 2 EV's.

John T Carroll

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a pumped electric shower that takes the water from the cylinder that's heated by the central heating most of the year, I don't get electric showers that heat the water , most I've seen are in homes with central heating.

There's a great flow of water from mine, where as the electric heated ones are crap.

In Germany the water pressure is really high from the mains and having high pressure from all taps is really cool and you don't usually need a pump I believe, The size of the water pipes in the cellar in my partners parents is unreal compared to the puny pipe we have coming from the mains, they don't even have tanks in the attic !

The greatest advantage to 3 phase in Ireland will be when people move to EV or have 2 EV's.

Flowrate isnt the problem for my mains shower, its the power available to heat the water and stay around 40 amps cable loading, I can get over 10 LPM from my shower but because of the 9.5 KW I can only have around 4 LPM but if I had a three phase supply I could have a 16.45 KW shower for the same amps (but not running cost obviously) which would give a comfortable flowrate of over 7 LPM. You wont see too many electric showers in the USA as they only have a domestic supply of 110V.