PS3 Firmware (v3.21) Update 1st April

Jackobyte

So, is anyone going to try walk into HMV/Gamestop tomorrow and try get their money back after the above case?

I'm tempted. Heap as much pressure on Sony as you can.

billybigunz

Jackobyte wrote: »

So, is anyone going to try walk into HMV/Gamestop tomorrow and try get their money back after the above case?

I'm tempted. Heap as much pressure on Sony as you can.

Worth doing. I wouldn't waste my time going down there. Just ring, get a manager and when they refuse send in a letter stating your case.

I think this firmware will be gone within the week though so if it drags out you won't get anything.

Jackobyte

billybigunz wrote: »

Worth doing. I wouldn't waste my time going down there. Just ring, get a manager and when they refuse send in a letter stating your case.

I think this firmware will be gone within the week though so if it drags out you won't get anything.

Might try it. Even if the firmware is repealed next week, I may already have €100 in my pocket!

billybigunz

Jackobyte wrote: »

Might try it. Even if the firmware is repealed next week, I may already have €100 in my pocket!

Go in heavy with the Amazon ruling, tell them to claim off Sony. These things will be decided at a corporate level so it will probably be out of some managers hands.

A lot of people online are calling this guy a scumbag for trying to claim money off Sony and that he probably never used Linux!

Jackobyte

billybigunz wrote: »

Go in heavy with the Amazon ruling, tell them to claim off Sony. These things will be decided at a corporate level so it will probably be out of some managers hands.

A lot of people online are calling this guy a scumbag for trying to claim money off Sony and that he probably never used Linux!

Who care! Oh no, the internet peoples don't like me. One hundred euro is one hundred euro.

WolfForager

billybigunz wrote: »

This firmware patch will be rolled back you can be sure. Consumer law is completely against Sony and Amazon are putting the ball in their court. If they persist with this firmware then they will be getting a bill for tens of millions.

I'm pretty sure Sony have themselves covered in the terms and conditions and what not.

billybigunz

WolfForager wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Sony have themselves covered in the terms and conditions and what not.

They don't. Consumer law is very simple. They sold a product which had a certain functionality. They then removed this functionality making it not fit to purpose. The purpose being all the functions that it was sold having.

The fact that a huge organisation like Amazon took this stance vindicates the legal argument.

WolfForager

Sony losing some money on the handful of people complaints they receive > Losing alot of money due to Piracy.

They learned their lesson with the PSP, they're not gonna let the PS3 go down the same path.

billybigunz

WolfForager wrote: »

Sony losing some money on the handful of people complaints they receive > Losing alot of money due to Piracy.

They learned their lesson with the PSP, they're not gonna let the PS3 go down the same path.

Every person that bought with amazon will be ringing to claim their £80. Other retailers will also have to oblige. Sony will back down you can be sure.

Grumpypants

That point came up somewhere else too and they said that EU law over rules Sony's T&C's.


Wonder how many 60gb are in the EU? If it was a million Sony could be looking at a bill of 100 mill. Think if it came down to that they would take the risk of the PS3 getting cracked over paying out that amount. But most likely of all they will reintroduce other OS with a lot of fixes that prevent the exploits.

noodler

why omly 60gbs?

Grumpypants

noodler wrote: »

why omly 60gbs?

Or other sizes with other OS . Not just omly 60gbs.

projectmayhem

billybigunz wrote: »

Every person that bought with amazon will be ringing to claim their £80. Other retailers will also have to oblige. Sony will back down you can be sure.

I bet you nearly every person who bought on amazon have no idea what this update did, don't care and will never know about this refund. Sony won't have to back down.

billybigunz

projectmayhem wrote: »

I bet you nearly every person who bought on amazon have no idea what this update did, don't care and will never know about this refund. Sony won't have to back down.

€20 that they do within the next month. I will be back with my paypal details.

eddhorse

Grumpypants wrote: »

That point came up somewhere else too and they said that EU law over rules Sony's T&C's.


Wonder how many 60gb are in the EU? If it was a million Sony could be looking at a bill of 100 mill. Think if it came down to that they would take the risk of the PS3 getting cracked over paying out that amount.

I disagree, they would lose alot more than that worldwide with pirated games etc...what people dont get is that if they do pay off 100m then thats 100m out of their budget for new features , rather than an old feature that 5 percent of people used...

projectmayhem

billybigunz wrote: »

€20 that they do within the next month. I will be back with my paypal details.

It's been a week since this Amazon refund, and there's been no pandemonium. No epic legal discussions and certainly no queues at Sony HQ filled with angry protesting gamers.

Even if there was widespread outcrying about this, the peoples' point would have been mooted somewhat by the fact that this tosser GeoHot released a Custom Firmware with the caveat that it will help hack PS3's in the future.

nucking futs

billybigunz wrote: »

€20 that they do within the next month. I will be back with my paypal details.

I'll take that bet, it ain't gonna happen

Grumpypants

eddhorse wrote: »

I disagree, they would lose alot more than that worldwide with pirated games etc...what people dont get is that if they do pay off 100m then thats 100m out of their budget for new features , rather than an old feature that 5 percent of people used...

I dont know you can see from this thread just how few people use pirated material. The vast majority of people are not criminals. The vast majority of people dont even know what geohot and other hackers are even talking about when they are explaining what they have done. Never mind replicate it themselves.

And if you look at it like this the only people who can hack the machines (if it ever gets hacked in 2 or 3 years) are people who didnt update to 3.2.1 and sony are willing to cut them out of future sales anyway. So clearly Sony dont mind cutting out a % of customers.

Then to think its a small % of people who hack machines anyway, its a small % of that small % that would be able to do it. Its an even further small % of that tiny % that would give up online gaming for a few free single player games. With online being the best part of gaming for a lot of the market they are just shooting themselves in the foot by hacking their console.

I know i wouldnt give up online gaming for all the free single player games in the world. Would i swap 10 hours of god of war 3, or 7 hour of MW2 or 10 hours for heavy rain for the 50 hours on MAG ? not on your life.

projectmayhem

Grumpypants wrote: »

I dont know you can see from this thread just how few people use pirated material. The vast majority of people are not criminals. The vast majority of people dont even know what geohot and other hackers are even talking about when they are explaining what they have done. Never mind replicate it themselves.

I would hardly use this thread as a good metric for piracy. Let's look directly at the market. I did this earlier but it was shot down. Modern Warfare 2. On a comparable machine, i.e. the 360, it was available at retail and for download illegally. Over 10 million (I can't find a recent figure, this is from January) copies of the game were sold. In the same period, over 1 million copies were downloaded. Using that, more usable metric, 1 in 10 people will gladly pirate games.

Grumpypants wrote: »

And if you look at it like this the only people who can hack the machines (if it ever gets hacked in 2 or 3 years) are people who didnt update to 3.2.1 and sony are willing to cut them out of future sales anyway. So clearly Sony dont mind cutting out a % of customers.

This sounds like an argument for what Sony did to me. The people who updated will now continue as normal, those who didn't will now be cut out as customers, thus be pirates. That's how it reads, anyway...

Grumpypants wrote: »

I know i wouldnt give up online gaming for all the free single player games in the world. Would i swap 10 hours of god of war 3, or 7 hour of MW2 or 10 hours for heavy rain for the 50 hours on MAG ? not on your life.

Keep in mind the 360 hacks allow access to XBL. You just can't get caught running scripts in certain parts of XBL. I imagine PSN is more locked down then that, but the 1 million copies of MW2 that were downloaded are probably being used to play online.

As an aside, sort of, I condensed my early opinions in a post. I know the discussion has moved on a little though.

Grumpypants

projectmayhem wrote: »

I would hardly use this thread as a good metric for piracy. Let's look directly at the market. I did this earlier but it was shot down. Modern Warfare 2. On a comparable machine, i.e. the 360, it was available at retail and for download illegally. Over 10 million (I can't find a recent figure, this is from January) copies of the game were sold. In the same period, over 1 million copies were downloaded. Using that, more usable metric, 1 in 10 people will gladly pirate games.



This sounds like an argument for what Sony did to me. The people who updated will now continue as normal, those who didn't will now be cut out as customers, thus be pirates. That's how it reads, anyway...

.

I think its a pretty good cross section of the PS3 users ive come into contact with. The vast majority of PS3 users ive played with are all pretty decent.

While 1 million is a large number of downloads (i fully support microsoft going after those users on criminal grounds). Even with modern warfare the most popular game in a long time only 10% of sales went to pirates. Would all of those downloaders have bought the game if the xbox was unhackable? who knows.

You could also look at it like this 50mill ish xbox's sold and only 1million MW2 downloads thats 2% of xbox users pirated the most popular game Thats a truer reflection of the scale of piracy on a machine riddled with it.

My point all along has been anti piracy measures should not impact on honest users. Im fully behind Microsoft banning consoles that are hacked. As the user made that choice. As i would support Sony doing something similar if the PS3 was hacked I fully support them taking criminal charges against anyone downloading a game (not hacking the machine its very different). I get annoyed when the measures introduced affect the normal users. I get annoyed when companies over blow piracy to do things they shouldn't. It reminds me a little of the US policy of striping away civil liberties to "protect" is citizens from terrorism. Some people will say its wrong to treat everyone as a threat others will say its ok as long as it protects us all. (not comparing piracy to terrorism before someone makes a smart comment its a likeness to the reaction)

On the 2nd point i think it shows Sony are willing to loose the people who want to hack their PS3 anyway. The only difference it makes to Sony if they loose them now or in 3 years, is that Sony will loose out on 3 years worth of software sales. If Sony dont mind loosing 3 years of sales to potential pirates then why make such a song and dance about loosing the same amount of sales in 3 years time.

Varik

I just want to ask if PSN was still available to those that do not update(with no tricks) would this be a problem, when the only loss of not updating will be the future releases in firmware and games that will require them?
You paid for what you got on the day, you can only get more if Sony lets you or allow you to buy it, for example the DSi, it's still a DS can i expect Nintendo to make every thing for it be supported on my old DS.
If Sony were idiots(or bigger idiots?)and when they made the slim it was a ps3.1 that was need to play Gow 3 would you have a right to compensation as you have an old phat.
And if Sony started charging for PSN is that not the same, you bought the ps3 when it had free online and then it doesn't, people keep talking about rumour that PSN will have a fee all the time and no complaints about changing what you bought.

just to finish i been looking at my ps3 box only say it has broadband connectivity for easy access to PSN not PSN itself.

projectmayhem

Grumpypants wrote: »

I think its a pretty good cross section of the PS3 users ive come into contact with. The vast majority of PS3 users ive played with are all pretty decent.

Most people who listen to music that I talk to are pretty decent too... but when albums are readily available online they're first in that line to download them illegally. Don't for a second think that downloading won't be rampant with custom firmware because PS3 users are "decent". I'm sure PSP users are lovely people - who just happen to have ruined the console's development cycles by downloading half of the content.

Grumpypants wrote: »

While 1 million is a large number of downloads (i fully support microsoft going after those users on criminal grounds). Even with modern warfare the most popular game in a long time only 10% of sales went to pirates. Would all of those downloaders have bought the game if the xbox was unhackable? who knows.

"Only" 10%? I don't think you're quite grasping the effect that has on an industry. If 10% of all games were pirated we wouldn't have an indie games industry at all.

If the machine wasn't unlocked, would they download? It's hard to tell. You'd need good metrics to see if they play regularly or just wanted to "try before you buy". Having said that, it shouldn't matter. If you want to try it out first you could just rent from xtra-vision. That keeps the industry ticking over. Outright downloading does nothing but give yourself millions of euro worth of software for nothing.

Grumpypants wrote: »

You could also look at it like this 50mill ish xbox's sold and only 1million MW2 downloads thats 2% of xbox users pirated the most popular game Thats a truer reflection of the scale of piracy on a machine riddled with it.

But no one's talking about all 360's sold versus the number of games bought. That's an incredibly naive argument. If 10million copies were sold and 1 million downloaded, that's a valuable metric. 50mil 360's sold and 1mil downloaded copies of MW2 has nothing to do with showing how piracy is rampant. Sure, it's an indication of the numbers who have hacked 360's, but there's probably more hacked 360's then that who have no access to Live so didn't bother with MW2. Or those who simply don't care about the game, etc. It's not a valuable metric when you can't break it down. 10% of all MW2 copies on 360 are pirated. That's a valuable metric.

Grumpypants wrote: »

My point all along has been anti piracy measures should not impact on honest users. Im fully behind Microsoft banning consoles that are hacked. As the user made that choice. As i would support Sony doing something similar if the PS3 was hacked I fully support them taking criminal charges against anyone downloading a game (not hacking the machine its very different). I get annoyed when the measures introduced affect the normal users. I get annoyed when companies over blow piracy to do things they shouldn't. It reminds me a little of the US policy of striping away civil liberties to "protect" is citizens from terrorism. Some people will say its wrong to treat everyone as a threat others will say its ok as long as it protects us all. (not comparing piracy to terrorism before someone makes a smart comment its a likeness to the reaction)

We're on the same page here. I couldn't possibly agree more. Having 100 ads on a DVD before the film starts with trailers, warnings and FBI logo's makes it far more attractive to just download the film file and watch it without the crap. Adding incredibly invasive software onto game discs for PC also makes it more attractive to download games that don't have this software bundled on them.

Grumpypants wrote: »

On the 2nd point i think it shows Sony are willing to loose the people who want to hack their PS3 anyway. The only difference it makes to Sony if they loose them now or in 3 years, is that Sony will loose out on 3 years worth of software sales. If Sony dont mind loosing 3 years of sales to potential pirates then why make such a song and dance about loosing the same amount of sales in 3 years time.

I don't think Sony wants to lose anyone to be honest. The people who own PS3's now buy games. They have to - there is no piracy on the system. However, they have to hurt those willing to pirate games.