The Bespoke/Retro Arcade

jimi_t2

Just wondering, what would the best and most popular options be if you were kitting out a bespoke or retro themed arcade? Not a ''if I won the lotto'' job, but more a realistic appraisal of what you'd like/expect to see if a new specialist arcade were to open in Ireland.

(If you've an idea of what kinda cash each cab would go for in good to reasonable condition, please post or comment on others posts! I'd also appreciate any good sites and/or advice for importing or buying cabs within Ireland)

o1s1n

1 - in Dublin. For the love of christ, let it be in Dublin

2 - lots of old jamma games/cabs. Generic JAMMA cabs aren't really that much. It's just the games themselves that might cost you a few bob. Depends what the game is! Ebay is your friend for that.

Retr0gamer

Bubble bobble and Puzzle Bobble.

o1s1n

A bubble bobble board will cost a few euro.

Puzzle bobble on the other hand sells for nothing. 30 for the MVS cart and then maybe 50 or 60 for a 1 slot mvs board to plug it in to.

Welease

If you are planning on purchasing retro cabs I would strong suggest you look to the UK (or even the US) to source the cabs... I have picked them up there for a LOT cheaper than Ireland.

As regards specific cabs.. retro means different things to different people.. For some, Mortal Kombat is retro.. for me it's more modern (showing my age )...

I don't think a purely retro arcade would really work unless there was some other draw, but for me I would go for the old big name non Jamma cabinets of PacMan, Missile Command, Joust, Defender, Asteroids, Galaxians, Space Invaders, Spy Hunter, Star Wars etc.. a few more modern Jamma (MK, Rtype, NBA Jam etc) & Street Fighter type games.. the odd pinball... and of course WC'90 in the corner

Retr0gamer

For most mortal kombat is ****e.

Welease

Retr0gamer wrote: »

For most mortal kombat is ****e.

I was never a fan of the fighting games, but I did own a dedicated MKII cab which looked very nice, bloody huge though.. I could never get why people liked Street Fighter though.. had one board (SF - World Warrior i think), and could just never get into it..

luscaa

im interested in building my own arcade,anybody any advice or tips for me ? thanks in advance

DublinWriter

luscaa wrote: »

im interested in building my own arcade,anybody any advice or tips for me ? thanks in advance

Great idea.

There's a musuem of Vintage Arcade games in New York. There's a vid of it on Youtube...I'm too lazy to cut and paste the link.

It works by customers booking time there by the hour for $10, and you can play what you like for free. I think that's a good idea as it would discourage random scummers coming in and abusing the vintage kit. They also allow bookings for parties, etc.

They have lots of Electro-Mechanical kit, which I'm sure requires a lot of maintenance.

jimi_t2

Ok, here's a far more pertinent question that could solve a lot of issues.

(Completely side-stepping the question of the 'purity' of MAME cabinets)

1. If you're operating on a pay by hour/free play basis, do you still pay the gaming machine licence per machine, or do you need a single presmises licence (about 650 euro IIRC)?

2. If you're operating on a per hour basis, are bootlegs/emulation legal or do you need a licence? If a licence is necessary, and you're taking it that each MVS cartridge/Jamma board comes with a licence intrinsically, does owning a BROKEN board and emulating the game itself in MAME or similar sidestep this?

jimi_t2

This was my masterlist - looking at no more than 15 cabinets, 20 max. No Gun cabs, No sit-downs, No oversized monstrosities.
Critique please!

New Age
1. Metal Slug X
2. Puzzle Bobble
3. Strider
4. R-Type (Cps2)
5. Alien Vs. Predator (Cps2)

Fighting
1. Super Street Fighter II Turbo (Cps2)
2. Tekken 3
3. Mortal Combat 3
4. ***Whats a good, CHEAP KoF?***
5. Marvel Vs. Capcom (Cps2)

Retro (I'd say mostly based on whats available in reasonable condition in the country, but it would be nice to get)
1. Ms.Pacman
2. Missile Command
3. Defender
4. Space Invaders
5. Sinistar

(Also before they're mentioned, prohibitively expensive games include : Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (probably the best sidescroller) and other Metal Slug titles. Similarly, things like Arkanoid might have the pedigree, but they don't really have that instant gratification element and they take too long to play.)

o1s1n

1. Metal Slug X
2. Puzzle Bobble

Get two cab, put a 6 slot neo geo MVS board in each and six games in each. MVS carts aren't expensive. You'll have twelve games in two cabs rather than two games in two cabs.

4. R-Type (Cps2)
5. Alien Vs. Predator (Cps2)

Great stuff, just remember about sucide batteries in cps2 boards. Aliens Versus Predator will also set you back a lot of money. As far as I know, R-type is just a standard pcb. It's not CPS2. So no suicide battery.

Fighting
1. Super Street Fighter II Turbo (Cps2)
2. Tekken 3
3. Mortal Combat 3
4. ***Whats a good, CHEAP KoF?***
5. Marvel Vs. Capcom (Cps2)

Same goes for the cps2 boards here. If you really have to get a Mortal Kombat game, get Mortal Kombat 2. It's the least pants one out of the lot.

KOF 98 is the best KOF game. And it's nice and cheap. As it's a Neo Geo MVS cart you could put it in one of the Neo Geo multi cabs I was talking about earlier. Also look into getting Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Samurai Showdown II and The Last Blade. They're all fantastic Neo Geo/SNK fighters and beat the ****e out of all Mortal Kombat/Tekken games.


Retro (I'd say mostly based on whats available in reasonable condition in the country, but it would be nice to get)
1. Ms.Pacman
2. Missile Command
3. Defender
4. Space Invaders
5. Sinistar

These will be expensive. And hard to maintain. This'll be the hardest part of the lot.

jimi_t2

o1s1n wrote: »

These will be expensive. And hard to maintain. This'll be the hardest part of the lot.

Which is why i'd be more tempted to go with a MAME/Replica cabinet option if its legal... Although I'm guessing some people are sticklers for authenticity.

jimi_t2

o1s1n wrote: »

1 - in Dublin. For the love of christ, let it be in Dublin .

Naturally, but where? I was thinking the Asian quarter up near Parnel Street but the scummer element dissuaded me

o1s1n

You can get a JAMMA classic multi board rather than using the horror of MAME. All you'd need then is a JAMMA cab with a vertical monitor. It'll be as authentic as you can get without having actual boards.

As for legality, I have no clue. I did play a cab in Bray bowl ages ago that had a multi board in it..so I doubt it's something you'll get in trouble for. Don't quote me on that though

How about Temple Bar? The scum element would be far less. And you'd get a lot of alternative types. Who I'm sure would just love an arcade like that. Parnell already has a pretty big arcade in beside the cinema. And then there's Quirkeys on O Connell street. Temple bar would be nice and far away from the two.

jimi_t2

o1s1n wrote: »

How about Temple Bar? The scum element would be far less.

UNBELIEVABLY expensive for 2,000sq/ft. Was thinking along the lines of Georges Street but still prohibitive price-wise

Re: The Jamma Classic board; you mean this?
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/60-in-1-multigame-pcb/prod_212.html

looks perfect! I just had some daydreams about a proper pacman cabinet blaring out the Attract music... Much better choice though

o1s1n

Yep, that's the exact one I'm on about. Same website too. I've bought a couple of things from those guys. They're good.

As for the location, I guess Parnell would probably be the cheapest area close to the city Centre alright. Down around Abbey street would be cheap enough too. Not too far off either.

jimi_t2

o1s1n wrote: »

Yep, that's the exact one I'm on about. Same website too. I've bought a couple of things from those guys. They're good.

As for the location, I guess Parnell would probably be the cheapest area close to the city Centre alright. Down around Abbey street would be cheap enough too. Not too far off either.

You're talking about 6k a month rent, far more than the gross intake of such an endeavour.

Something like this would be perfect
http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=c1&s[a_id]=ga1&s[min_size]=1500&s[max_size]=3000&s[pt_id]=7&s[search_type]=commercial&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=0&limit=10&search_type=commercial&id=55765

but again, 3k a month is still scandalous. Thats excluding utilities and public liability insurance etc...

Welease

Without putting a downer on this.. I really don't think there is any chance of you making money on a venture like this without having some other attraction in place..

Looking at the prices you got quoted for premises, and including running costs, insurances and wages you would need a very healthy turnover in order to break even. I never got the feeling that a retro arcade would draw that many people in Dublin (this board is pretty quiet as an example), and certainly not more than once unless there was some other additional reason. I know I probably wouldn't be bothered to travel out of way to play those machines more than once, especially given the availability of mame.

What I have seen work in the UK, is for you to have a collection of retro games, and hire them out to clubs/events for special nights. I'm racking my brains for the names of some of the companies.. I'll post them up if they brain kicks into gear..

Either way, best of luck with the venture..

Edit - oh and I had a R-Type 2 board which was definitely Jamma

sengoku

I don't want to put a downer on it either, but, opening an arcade is like that movie about baseball, "Field of Dreams". "If you build it they will come!"

If you open an arcade, the scum just seem to follow. For some strange reason they always wear "bubble jackets"????

MontgomeryClift

As for your list of games, I'd leave out those early 80s games, in favour of a couple from the late 80s, and a vertical shooting game of some kind. And if you're getting a Mortal Kombat, it should be MK2.

But I don't think it matters, as Rent, Insurance and Scum will make this kind of venture impossible, especially as all of the above are worse in Dublin than elsewhere. I suppose there's no harm in trying though. Good luck.

jimi_t2

Cheers for all the input so far

Some of you are talking like this is a distinct possibility - it's just a little light-hearted discussion to batter out some of the basic details of such a venture and to do a proper cost analysis. This is something that has been on my mind for years and I'd like to see if its at all feasible given the lack of arcades and how drastically the city centre is doing these days.

In terms of the scum element, I'd hope that making it a pay by hour affair and theming it very much as a ''retro gaming museum'' as opposed to an arcade would be enough to dissuade them. Hit them where it hurts : the John Player Blue fund

In terms of the ''pull'' factor, the idea would be to open normally but to have certain times/days reserved and market it out for parties/nerdy stags, get college gamesocs and user groups heavily involved, get industry people in for informal Q and As, start league nights for certain games w/sponsored prizes etc...

@Welease - Our population density and unimaginative disgrace of a nightclub scene sort of puts paid to the rental idea. There's a load of great business ventures the UK is able to support that we sadly aren't.

As for the comment regarding them being available on MAME, regardless of that hoary old chestnut regarding the atmosphere/emulation/authenticity of the experience, the idea would be to be attract a few diverse crowds - younger gamers at weekends, office/town crowd during the week, the casuals who are able to pop in pre/post a few pints of an evening etc...

As for costs. Certainly they're high, but they're getting lower by the day and enterprise boards etc... are getting quite eager to support anything opening thats not another restaurant/bar.

Bar the initial capital start up costs (say 12-15k for machines, electrics and ephemera) and about another 17-22k for 6 months rent, utilities and insurance, you're really looking at very little else. You'd need about 100 people logging 2 hours each across the course of a 7 day week to make it feasible. This is a considerable amount, so gauging interest and calculating footfall in certain areas is obviously the pertinent task.

Skerries

maybe consider having about 6-8 gaming computers for dedicated online gaming
it might pull in more gamers

jimi_t2

Skerries wrote: »

maybe consider having about 6-8 gaming computers for dedicated online gaming
it might pull in more gamers

There's at least 3 places in Dublin that do exactly this. I had a notion of doing a place with MMORPG pods for WoW/Eve and the like but you'd be looking at dropping 4-5k a unit to even match the setup of many of the more dedicated gamers, and then you're looking at another 300-400 a month for a leased line.

Skerries

a good gaming rig would set you back no more than 1500?

jimi_t2

Here's a question... Something like this

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/1069-in-1-games-family-multigame-system/prod_243.html

Legal in a pay per hour context? How the hell does the licencing work?

DublinWriter

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

But I don't think it matters, as Rent, Insurance and Scum will make this kind of venture impossible, especially as all of the above are worse in Dublin than elsewhere. I suppose there's no harm in trying though. Good luck.

Very true.

Rates and public liability insurance would cripple such an enterprise, especially if it operated out of office hours.

Another alternate would be to make it a private members' club and/or use commercial industrial premises. There's a new theatre/arts centre operating out of an industrial estate in Drogheda next to the relocated Sound Shop. It's a fantastic use of such a premises.

Welease

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Here's a question... Something like this

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/1069-in-1-games-family-multigame-system/prod_243.html

Legal in a pay per hour context? How the hell does the licencing work?

I can't see it being legal in any context.. happy to be proven wrong though..

It looks like a pc running mame software with an ipac type jamma interface.. pretty standard stuff.. and would cost a fraction to assemble yourself..

So it should fall under the same licencing rules, you can use any rom as long as you have the corresponding board in your collection (thats my understanding anyway)....

CathalDublin

Daytona USA (not the second one) as many linked as possible(sorry didn't read where you said no oversized sit downs )
A couple of classics you might consider
Pang/Super Pang
Galaga
Galaxian
Ghouls N Ghosts
Ghost N Goblins
Track N Field
Snow Bros.
Bubble Bobble(already mentioned I know)
Puzzle de Pon(MVS)
Puzzle Bobble(MVS)
World Rally Championship
Great 1000 mile race
Donkey Kong
Tekken Tag (any Tekken for that matter)

I've always wanted to set up something like this and probably will.
What about doing it in a Shopping Centre? might get more publicity/traffic and less scum?
Somewhere like Blanch, Liffey Valley, Pavilions, even Charlestown SC.
Also you might want to consider building some of the cabinets, anyone with a good workshop should be able to build you a defender/pacman/galaga cabinet fairly quickly, the electronics is then pretty basic, you could even do an RGB hack on any pal TV and get pretty much the same effect as an arcade monitor if you were looking to save money as 21"+ CRT tvs should be fairly handy to pick up

If your after any mvs carts check out my auctions on ebay coming next week, will post a link when there up.
Loads of MVS fighters (about 15/20 in total, some with artwork(stickers))

o1s1n

CathalDublin wrote: »

If your after any mvs carts check out my auctions on ebay coming next week, will post a link when there up.
Loads of MVS fighters (about 15/20 in total, some with artwork(stickers))

Got a list of games you can throw up here? I wouldn't mind seeing what you've got.

Also I'd be interested in seeing some of the artwork. Do you mean mini marquees? Or the sticker showing the different controls/moves?

jimi_t2

CathalDublin wrote: »

Somewhere like Blanch, Liffey Valley...

Twice to three times the rates of a ''walk-by'' location, and almost certainly more scum (scum LOVE shopping centres. Go to Jervis sometime)

Retr0gamer

Can't believe the greatest arcade game of all time hasn't been mentioned yet tripe like Mortal Kombat has. Theis arcade would need robotron 2084!

A street Fighter 3 3rd Strike cabinet would also be sweet.

o1s1n

Only problem with 3rd Strike is it's on CPS3 hardware. Which I have heard can crap out on you even if you just look at it funny.

sengoku

jimi_t2 wrote: »

scum LOVE shopping centres

Existing proof :

Atari EXPO
Level 3
The Square Shopping Center
Tallaght
Dublin 24

Every time you play a game, you will be accosted for cigarettes or spare change.

"Mistor! Hav' ye got a smoke?"
"Any odds bud?"
"Will ye get me me cans?" «-- There are no errors in this sentence. Its an actual quote.

This can be upsetting, especially when your are concentrating really hard on hitting that last boss in Silent Scope For those of you who are not familiar with said last boss, you need to bring down the enemy with one shot while he hides behind a hostage on a boat that is gently swaying on the waves.

The Expo in recent years has slowly implemented a policy that has got rid of almost all the scum, unintentionally. That policy was to fill the place with more profitable poker machines, roulette, slots etc The only arcade machine that is left is a Sega Rally 3 cab.

The Present
It seems inevitable to me that this is the cold reality of our collective interest. Slots will always be more profitable. All arcades are slowly evolving into gambling dens. Scum will always be looking for beer, money and cigarettes.

I would like to apologise about the negative spin I have put on things. I just feel that the arcades as we know them are dead. Manufacturers have, for a long time, given up on the joystick and buttons in favour of the simulator, even now there are not that many been made. The gaming market has changed from arcade to console entertainment, that is how the manufacturers make their money now.

The Future
Its seems to me that the Internet cafes are the new arcades, with MMORPGs and xbox 360s. One way I can see an arcade surviving is that it also evolves or merges with an existing business. Maybe into a Bar or a Pub with a side room that houses the machines, "Also available for functions". Most people that are interested in the classics would be of the beer drinking age, so this would be a possibility.


Has anyone got any other ideas?

CathalDublin

I don't know about a pay by the hour system
I think coins would be better, easier to look after, less initial setup costs, easy repair/maintenance. Maybe a token system but then you would have to get tokens that are not easily available online to avoid scammers:D
There's a couple of reasonably prices shops on capel street and bolten street on property.ie, might be worth checking out
Anyway good luck with the business venture
oh just remembered there is a guy on BYOAC who recently setup an arcade in the UK somewhere, will try dig out the thread at lunchtime(obviously out of Ireland ATM)
now found one of the threads but still searching on other
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=98086.0
Those multi game boards mentioned before are often used commercially through out the world, in fact there is one in a cocktail cabinet in Wrights(malahide a couple of doors down from gibneys) and I've seen quit a few of them in Australia

o1s1n wrote: »

Got a list of games you can throw up here? I wouldn't mind seeing what you've got.

Also I'd be interested in seeing some of the artwork. Do you mean mini marquees? Or the sticker showing the different controls/moves?

Will get some pics tonight and start up a new thread, they are mostly fighting games