Can I put a border collie on a long chain or is it cruel???

ste2006

Hi All,

I am thinking of getting a dog and always wanted a border collie, I am now living in a cottage with a bit of land around it so feel i may be able to get one now,

My main problem is that we have a few farmers around with sheep who will shoot the dog if he goes near there farms,

I obviously do not want him to get shot so was considering putting him on a long 20 or 30M chain to let him roam around the house to the gate but not any further,

I will be out during the day, home for lunch and then not home till 6 again.

My GF works odd hours so would be around a lot when im not so i think he should be ok for company.

I do a lot of mountian biking & hiking so would bring him out the weekends and evening doing that.

Any advice on whether i could keep him on a long chain during the day???

Any advice appreciated,

Thanks,

Stephen

CreedonsDogDayc

as long as he has shelter and isnt being annoyed by cats / other dogs / traffic etc it should be fine, just monitor him, and introduce it slowy (5 mins day, one, 10 mins day two etc).
how about buying one of these http://cgi.ebay.ie/Gelert-Dog-Tether...item20aa5401e8 with this http://cgi.ebay.ie/BN-Stake-Spike-DO...#ht_3269wt_939 , quite cheap!

A collie sounds like a good choice for you, they come into shelters a lot too!

liah

Please don't put your dog on a chain unattended. It could choke itself to death, get sores from the chain dragging between its legs, etc., and honestly.. it just strikes me as inhumane.

Consider fencing off your land or adding an electric fence. Otherwise, keep the dog in the house while you're out.

CreedonsDogDayc

oh yeah i meant to mention, attach it to a harness on the dog and make sure theres no obsticles in the way that the rope could get caught on (for instance, walls the dog could jump but the length of the rope hangs the dog on the far side etc.

Also, dont leave the dog for more than a couple of hours, and make sure noone can steal your dog!!

Edit : PLEASE dont use an electronic collar!!!

ste2006

In my opinion keeping a dog locked up in a house all day is in-humane,

To put a collar and 30M chain on him, at least he can run around the place and have a bit of freedom,

Obviously he would also have a nice kennel to walk into out of the weather also

CreedonsDogDayc:
If i am at work how can i ween him on to a chain, When im at home he can come inside with me and sit down, watch TV etc but during the day he might like to roam around outside,

I have been told of a few dogs shot around here because they looked at sheep the wrong way (even a labrador)

CreedonsDogDayc

ste get him used to it while your home, over the weekend or something.

Attach the lead (definately use a harness though because if he wanted, he could weasle his way out of the collar, and if he makes a mad dash, jerking at the neck could injure him), and walk away so he learns that at some stage he can no longer follow you. so go just our of reach, and watch his reaction to being restrained. if he just accepts it come back and give him a treat.

then, walk a full circle of how far the lead reaches a few times, so the dog learns its perimeters.

once he's accepted it and is calm, give him a treat, and go into the house, and play dective!!! Spy on him from a window and watch his reaction. If he is immediately distressed, throw him a toy and give him a few mins. if he doesnt calm down you'll have to go back out to him, but IGNORE HIM!! show him you havent disappeared, but busy yourself (gardening or something) once he does calm down, and begins ignoring you, sneak off again.
When he is ok with it, leave him for a while, then calmly walk over to him, unhook him and bring him in. DONT make a fuss though, bring him into the house, and instruct him to sit, or lie down, or do a trick and then make a fuss and lots of cuddles!!!!

Homefully he wont have a problem with it at all, but if he does, get back to me.

ha-ya-said-what

you can buy garden leads for dogs, they are heavy duty wire with plastic coating & swivel hooks on each end to avoid tangles, one to attach to his harness, the other to the garden weight or the garden fixture you screw into the ground (wouldn't advise them they come out of the ground)

lily4

Aren't collies quite highly strung and need alot of stimulation/ excercise?

Why would you want to chain one of these up all day?

I would say:

a) Fence in your land so the dog can't roam - not an electric fence
or
b) Keep the dog inside when you're out - he'll probably will sleep all day
or
c) Don't get a dog

Please don't get a dog to chain it up all day. I fear you may be posting back here in 6 months time to say you have a collie with behavioural problems.
Perhaps you could consider a smaller dog you could keep inside.

CreedonsDogDayc

lily4 wrote: »

Aren't collies quite highly strung and need alot of stimulation/ excercise?

Why would you want to chain one of these up all day?

I would say:

a) Fence in your land so the dog can't roam - not an electric fence
or
b) Keep the dog inside when you're out - he'll probably will sleep all day
or
c) Don't get a dog

Please don't get a dog to chain it up all day. I fear you may be posting back here in 6 months time to say you have a collie with behavioural problems.
Perhaps you could consider a smaller dog you could keep inside.

I dont think you read the post properly, he said

"i will be out during the day, home for lunch and then not home till 6 again.

My GF works odd hours so would be around a lot when im not so i think he should be ok for company.

I do a lot of mountian biking & hiking so would bring him out the weekends and evening doing that."

Between the OP coming home at lunch, and his girlfriend being around during the day (i assume bringing the dog inside) the dog wont be alone for long.

Also, the dog will be getting lots of exercise with the OP evenings!!

CreedonsDogDayc

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

you can buy garden leads for dogs, they are heavy duty wire with plastic coating & swivel hooks on each end to avoid tangles, one to attach to his harness, the other to the garden weight or the garden fixture you screw into the ground (wouldn't advise them they come out of the ground)

yup, thats what i posted a link to above, they're very cheap too!!! (on ebay though, i bought my cope and screw in the pet shop and i was robbed;) )

lily4

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

I dont think you read the post properly, he said

"i will be out during the day, home for lunch and then not home till 6 again.

My GF works odd hours so would be around a lot when im not so i think he should be ok for company.

I do a lot of mountian biking & hiking so would bring him out the weekends and evening doing that."

Between the OP coming home at lunch, and his girlfriend being around during the day (i assume bringing the dog inside) the dog wont be alone for long.

Also, the dog will be getting lots of exercise with the OP evenings!!

Yes - will gf bring dog in and interact with him. Is OP at work 8 hours a day , say an hour for lunch - dog chained up for 7 hours a day.
OP hasn't said exactly how long dog will be chained up for.

Yes the dog will be exercised but I do not agree with chaining dogs up - can OP not fence in his land ?

OPs original question was should he chain dog up all day. My answer would be no.

ha-ya-said-what

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

yup, thats what i posted a link to above, they're very cheap too!!! (on ebay though, i bought my cope and screw in the pet shop and i was robbed;) )

Your links were opening for me but showing no pics, so I said I'd try describe em lol I had a feeling you had posted links to the same lead my mother used to have for her collie for a few hours during the day.

CreedonsDogDayc

lily4 wrote: »

Yes - will gf bring dog in and interact with him. Is OP at work 8 hours a day , say an hour for lunch - dog chained up for 7 hours a day.
OP hasn't said exactly how long dog will be chained up for.

Yes the dog will be exercised but I do not agree with chaining dogs up - can OP not fence in his land ?

OPs original question was should he chain dog up all day. My answer would be no.

Even if the OP is working 8 hours and didnt have the girlfriend, it wouldnt exactly be 7 hours tied up, it would be 3, then some play time, then 4. Quite different in my opinion. But with the information we've been given im under the impression that the girlfriend will be around during the day so further cutting the 3hour and 4hour sessions!

Obviously fencing in the land would be much better, but maybe thats not an option for OP.

Again, OP never said dog would be tied up all day!!

ste2006

Thanks for all the advice, Keep it coming :-)

I so not really want to get a small dog as i want to bring him biking etc with me,

Would he be happier inside or outside during the day???

I don't think i whould leave him inside during the day at all, What does anyone else think???

I have a small fenced off part at the front of my house but i think it would be a little small,

To keep him occupied would toys etc keep him happy???

CreedonsDogDayc

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

Your links were opening for me but showing no pics, so I said I'd try describe em lol I had a feeling you had posted links to the same lead my mother used to have for her collie for a few hours during the day.

eek, I took the lazy option and copied and pasted the links from where I had posted them before, here it is
http://cgi.ebay.ie/BN-Stake-Spike-DOG-TIE-OUT-CABLE-Garden-Holiday-Outdoor_W0QQitemZ160414694979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs?var=&hash=item6b1a3aedf0#ht_3269wt_939http://cgi.ebay.ie/BN-Stake-Spike-DOG-TIE-OUT-CABLE-Garden-Holiday-Outdoor_W0QQitemZ160414694979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs?var=&hash=item6b1a3aedf0#ht_3269wt_939
you can scroll down to select the spike and different length cables!

ste2006

I just paced out my garden, Its about 40M by 20M with a small cottage in the middle,

Some of it is fenced off but just using standard fence posts so i reckon he could jump it if he wanted,

I also am only renting the house so cant start going mad putting up fences

Am i pushing my luck trying to get a Border Collie??? I just really like them :-)

bellapip

RECONSIDER...........


Do you need the dog or does the dog need you??


Why would you bring an animal into your family and tie it up?
You will regret it,. if a dog like a collie is going to be an issue and your really want a dog, go to your local shelter and speak to them. Or talk to breeders, see which dog would be best suited to being with you during the day, or best suited to spending a few hours alone.

Please re-think bringing a dog to your home and then putting it on a chain....

Lorlie

CreedonsDogDayc

ste2006 wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice, Keep it coming :-)

I so not really want to get a small dog as i want to bring him biking etc with me,

Would he be happier inside or outside during the day???

I don't think i whould leave him inside during the day at all, What does anyone else think???

I have a small fenced off part at the front of my house but i think it would be a little small,

To keep him occupied would toys etc keep him happy???

In an IDEAL world, a dog flap to a fenced off area would be perfect if that was an option?

If your going home lunchtime then inside would probably be the better option but maybe leave her outside on sunny days (with shade).

A collie should be perfect for you, I walk three different collies / collie crosses and even though they can go and go and go, with the dogs I know, once they're regularly exercised, they just sleep the rest of the time!

ha-ya-said-what

ste2006 wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice, Keep it coming :-)

I so not really want to get a small dog as i want to bring him biking etc with me,

Would he be happier inside or outside during the day???

I don't think i whould leave him inside during the day at all, What does anyone else think???

I have a small fenced off part at the front of my house but i think it would be a little small,

To keep him occupied would toys etc keep him happy???

I had collies from the time I was a toddler up until I was 20 summit, one thing I learned about them they do not like to be housed in all the time caged up... toys errmm they were always no good unless someone was there to play with them. If you head down to a hardware store you'll get some 4-5 foot rolls of wire & some fence posts & make up a basic gate you can have a dog run made in a day, if you want a cheap effective solution.

ste2006

Will the dog just jump a 4 foot fence???

ha-ya-said-what

The posts themselves will come in various lengths, if you can only get the wire in say 4foot high what you do is buy say 8ft post, that way you have extra left on top where you can buy a plain roll of wire & just run it down & around each post & back up almost like your making a basket, but you dont have to have it wire beside wire, you can space each wire strand 2-4 inch apart what ever you prefer & just put the odd staple into the post in places to ensure the wire wont slip down the post & lower the height.

Even through time if your lucky to own a dog that does not eat your garden flowers you can grow creepers up the one or two sides of the run to conceal part of it, saw one person who did it before that way & it looked lovely, wouldn't even know she had a dog run in the garden when you came in her side gate, but she left the front of it clear so she could see the run & the dog from her back windows.

Ohh I forgot, to avoid escape under it you can use wire U's to secure the wire to the ground or tack the wire to fence posts to weight it to the ground, plus they make it easier to mow along the run!

Building site barriers work too but they are like 8 or 10 foot high & huuuuggggeee dunno how you'd make a run out of them but I've seen pics from where people have done it!

Just saw now you said your renting, you can acutally lift the home made runs out of the ground, roll them up & take it with you when you move, just fill in the holes again and that's it.

hipster2009

I have been told of a few dogs shot around here because they looked at sheep the wrong way (even a labrador)[/QUOTE]

You would not make that statement if you had seen the damage that dogs can do to a flock of sheep even if they only scare them it can result in miscarriages.
If you had seen the results of a full attack with sheep walking around with flesh hanging off and and intestines sticking out.

All types of dogs have attacked sheep even "labradors"

If you live in the country and want to get a dog then build a good run with a decent house. No dog ever looks happy on the end of a chain!

andreac

ste2006 wrote: »

Will the dog just jump a 4 foot fence???

Yes, 4 ft is nothing to a dog, it needs to be at least 6 ft. Build a dog run, they can be bought for a couple of hundred euro.

Please do not tie your dog up, it isnt safe and the dog can hang itself by getting caught on something.

I dont even leave a collar on my dog unsupervised as my cousins dog hung itself on the garden fence when it tried to jump it. She came home to find the poor dog hanging dead on the fence.:(

ste2006

Good advice, How long should a dog run be do you think???

ste2006

I assume people have the same opinions of a long dog lead as a chain???

peasant

hipster2009 wrote: »

IIf you live in the country and want to get a dog then build a good run with a decent house. No dog ever looks happy on the end of a chain!

They don't look particularly happy in a cage (aka "run") either.

The best in this situation is a proper fence (chain link, 6ft high and buried at the bottom so the dog can't dig out)

EDIT

just saw this

ste2006 wrote: »

Some of it is fenced off but just using standard fence posts so i reckon he could jump it if he wanted,

I also am only renting the house so cant start going mad putting up fences

Am i pushing my luck trying to get a Border Collie??? I just really like them :-)

as a fence is out of the question, so really is the dog ...especially in sheep country

ste2006

I asked the owner and he said i can fence off the front of it if i like, its about 20M x 3M,

Is this too small to let him roam free in, There is a door direct in to the house from there then also,

hipster2009

peasant wrote: »

They don't look particularly happy in a cage (aka "run") either.

The best in this situation is a proper fence (chain link, 6ft high and buried at the bottom so the dog can't dig out)

Try to be realistic the OP is in a rented house so I doubt the landlord will let him put up a 6ft fence all around.
Plus this would cost a lot more than a RUN which if long enough cannot be compared to a cage!

peasant

ste2006 wrote: »

I asked the owner and he said i can fence off the front of it if i like, its about 20M x 3M,

Is this too small to let him roam free in, There is a door direct in to the house from there then also,

It's better than nothing, larger than any of the so called dog runs and it'll do for throwing a ball etc

Should work out, imo

ste2006

Should a Border Collie have a lot more space than 20 x 3M during the day though???

peasant

ste2006 wrote: »

Should a Border Collie have a lot more space than 20 x 3M during the day though???

Space isn't really the issue, company is ...how long will the dog be alone for again?

ste2006

I do apprecaite that fact, as i have never dealt with sheep (only cows) I do not know much about them, I can see the point and obviously don't want to annoy my neighbors

hipster2009 wrote: »

I have been told of a few dogs shot around here because they looked at sheep the wrong way (even a labrador)

You would not make that statement if you had seen the damage that dogs can do to a flock of sheep even if they only scare them it can result in miscarriages.
If you had seen the results of a full attack with sheep walking around with flesh hanging off and and intestines sticking out.

All types of dogs have attacked sheep even "labradors"

If you live in the country and want to get a dog then build a good run with a decent house. No dog ever looks happy on the end of a chain![/QUOTE]

lily4

hipster2009 wrote: »

Try to be realistic the OP is in a rented house so I doubt the landlord will let him put up a 6ft fence all around.
Plus this would cost a lot more than a RUN which if long enough cannot be compared to a cage!

Yes the OP is in a rented house - fencing is a possibility only depending on landlord etc.

Perhaps OP should not get a dog at this time and wait until he is living in accomodation more suited to keeping quite an intelligent and active breed (collie).

Would agree with a run, but again depending on how long the dog will be spending in there - OP hasn't actually explicitly stated the exact time each day the dog will be unsupervised/ chained up etc

ste2006

I was just chatting to my GF, Max time will be about 4.5 Hours at a stretch, Is this too long???

I also head down the country to a farm every two weeks or so (for the weekend), Would he be ok to drive down with me (about three hours) if i stop along the way,

He would have 130 Acres there and other dogs also

lily4

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

Even if the OP is working 8 hours and didnt have the girlfriend, it wouldnt exactly be 7 hours tied up, it would be 3, then some play time, then 4. Quite different in my opinion. But with the information we've been given im under the impression that the girlfriend will be around during the day so further cutting the 3hour and 4hour sessions!

Obviously fencing in the land would be much better, but maybe thats not an option for OP.

Again, OP never said dog would be tied up all day!!

OP hasn't confirmed the actual time the dog would be chained up.
You seem to be reducing the time to 3/4 hours based on what?

ste2006

Just to note, there is a fence around 4 foot high all around the front of the house from the last girl here (a small dog), There would be no issue raising this to say 6 foot

lily4

ste2006 wrote: »

I was just chatting to my GF, Max time will be about 4.5 Hours at a stretch, Is this too long???

I also head down the country to a farm every two weeks or so (for the weekend), Would he be ok to drive down with me (about three hours) if i stop along the way,

He would have 130 Acres there and other dogs also

Sorry ignore my last post, was cross-posted with this one.

Ste you seem to be a reasonable person who is genuinely concerned about how the potential dog will fare being tied up. My gut feeling is even 4.5 hours is too long. I think you yourself are worried too, hence posting on this forum.

A former housemate of mine had two dog (small terriers ) that she kept in the house while she worked and they slept all day - literally wouldn't raise their heads if it was raining :rolleyes:
Had they been chained up outside I know for a fact they would have been constant barkers - unhappy and discontent.

Please just ask yourself are you really in a position to have a dog right now? If not, why not wait a few years until you can organise accomodation that suits the needs of the dog better ? Remember dogs are a long commitment - 15+ years etc...

rctn1904

I had a dog that became vicious as a result of being tied up.
My next dog I built a simple pen/run with plastic coated wire and with a hole into the garage and a walled section in the garage. She could go in and out. I also planted a nice hedge at one side of the pen and she lived happily there for 14 years -remember the investment is for a long time. When we were home she was out in the garden, once she got trained to it.

nichola seaver

I have a collie aswell, there great dogs. In my opinion i dont agree with dogs been tied up. also if its on ur mind already u might feel guilty about it if u decide to go ahead and do so, U mentioned u had a big garden which is great for the dog but not if he is tied up. I think u should try fence up the area and let the dog roam as they wish, as they say a happy dog is a happy owner.

ste2006

Thanks again for all the advice,

Last thing, Would it be ok to bring the dog on a car trip every two weeks or so to the country, Trip is about three hours but i would stop on the way with him

elius

Pretty disappointed that no one has even suggested training your dog so it doesn't look twice at sheep i have a German pointer and all though its a gun dog its also very much a family pet and if she was within five yards of a sheep it will not go near it.. If bought as a pup and trained properly there should be know need for it to look twice at one. A run would be a good idea when your not in. Chains drive dogs mad. Once regularly walked and exercised it should have a no reason to leave the confines of your garden. Dog that are left to roam free are 9/10 bought for children and no time or effort has been put into training it and never get exercised which really annoys me. Make a good choice: a dog that likes an active life style but is also happy for some down time. Labradors, German pointer are all good active dogs and remember the extra cost in food, vets, kennels time for walks every morning evening. If after that your happy welcome to dog ownership you wont regret it.

The Sweeper

elius wrote: »

Pretty disappointed that no one has even suggested training your dog so it doesn't look twice at sheep i have a German pointer and all though its a gun dog its also very much a family pet and if she was within five yards of a sheep it will not go near it.

That's fine if you're a sheep, but the problem isn't controlling your dog near a sheep. The problem is your dog wandering. Whether or not your dog would hurt a fly, farmers don't wait until a dog runs for a sheep - it's not unusual for an unaccompanied dog trespassing on a property to be shot.

ste2006

Yes the above is exactly my worry,

I know if the dog wanders into any of the fields around here on his own he will be shot, even if he has no interest in sheep,

The Sweeper wrote: »

That's fine if you're a sheep, but the problem isn't controlling your dog near a sheep. The problem is your dog wandering. Whether or not your dog would hurt a fly, farmers don't wait until a dog runs for a sheep - it's not unusual for an unaccompanied dog trespassing on a property to be shot.

ste2006

Anyone any opinion on the below,

Would it be ok to bring the dog on a car trip every two weeks or so to the country, Trip is about three hours but i would stop on the way with him????

Howitzer

don't forget dogs are denning animals and like small comfortable spaces - especially when their master isn't around. he'd sleep all day indoors (once you exercise in the morning).

No one has suggested getting 2 dogs? (although I hated that suggestion when I was looking ;-)

A dog left alone with a large area will pace and get anxious. They are rubbish at entertaining themselves.

If I leave mine in the back garden for 5 mins she comes to the door looking to get in. The garden is just another room of the house to her.

2 dogs in a garden would work better I'd say / or keep 1 dog indoors.

my2cents - hope its some help with your decision.

ste2006

Thanks Howitzer,

What do people think, would two dogs keep each other happier during the day or would the space be just too small for them????

Howitzer wrote: »

don't forget dogs are denning animals and like small comfortable spaces - especially when their master isn't around. he'd sleep all day indoors (once you exercise in the morning).

No one has suggested getting 2 dogs? (although I hated that suggestion when I was looking ;-)

A dog left alone with a large area will pace and get anxious. They are rubbish at entertaining themselves.

If I leave mine in the back garden for 5 mins she comes to the door looking to get in. The garden is just another room of the house to her.

2 dogs in a garden would work better I'd say / or keep 1 dog indoors.

my2cents - hope its some help with your decision.

Howitzer

ste2006 wrote: »

Anyone any opinion on the below,

Would it be ok to bring the dog on a car trip every two weeks or so to the country, Trip is about three hours but i would stop on the way with him????

You just need to build up the time in the car with the dog. Feed him treats so he learns to love the car etc.
We took ours round the block a few weekends in the car and tossed in treats as she figured it all out. Now she just nods off in the car - no problem.

We used to stop in the local supermarket carpark and 'hangout' in the car - showing its a fun place to be and nothing to woryy about etc.

CreedonsDogDayc

Howitzer wrote: »

You just need to build up the time in the car with the dog. Feed him treats so he learns to love the car etc.
We took ours round the block a few weekends in the car and tossed in treats as she figured it all out. Now she just nods off in the car - no problem.

We used to stop in the local supermarket carpark and 'hangout' in the car - showing its a fun place to be and nothing to woryy about etc.

agree with this, and dont feed your dog before long journeys as he may get sick with the food in his tummy on top of nerves.

There are loads of mouth sprays, tablets etc that you can get to calm your dog, especially for long journeys, but ive no experience of them, so not sure if they actually work, perhaps someone here has used them in the past?

Weekends at the farm sound like great fun for your dog!!! Just make sure he's very good at recall. Collies are extremely intelligent dogs, so if you dedicate yourself to training him, you'll have a genius dog!!

elius

The Sweeper wrote: »

That's fine if you're a sheep, but the problem isn't controlling your dog near a sheep. The problem is your dog wandering. Whether or not your dog would hurt a fly, farmers don't wait until a dog runs for a sheep - it's not unusual for an unaccompanied dog trespassing on a property to be shot.

Thats why everyone should be prepared to walk the god at least twice a day. And the dog should be trained not to leave the garden of the house. unless instructed to do so. As said though when your out a run will be more than good enough.

PaulB91

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

eek, I took the lazy option and copied and pasted the links from where I had posted them before, here it is
http://cgi.ebay.ie/BN-Stake-Spike-DOG-TIE-OUT-CABLE-Garden-Holiday-Outdoor_W0QQitemZ160414694979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs?var=&hash=item6b1a3aedf0#ht_3269wt_939http://cgi.ebay.ie/BN-Stake-Spike-DOG-TIE-OUT-CABLE-Garden-Holiday-Outdoor_W0QQitemZ160414694979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs?var=&hash=item6b1a3aedf0#ht_3269wt_939
you can scroll down to select the spike and different length cables!

just a few points to note on these tie outs - I had to use them when we stayed at my in-laws for a few months before buying - their garden was impossible to fence off due to the vegetation there, I tried, Tyson broke through or dug under everything, anyway

1) they can get tangled up, on anything and everything that's lying on the floor, twigs, sticks, and if you got plants forget them, will wrap round trees as well

2) once they are a month or so old, they become weathered, at this stage they can become unattached easy at the clasp and also Tyson managed to snap/chew through about three of them

3) biggest problem is the dog getting tangled up in them, did happen now and again, personally i would only use them for supervised short periods of time i.e. if you have people/workmen round and need to keep the dog away from them

i'd go for a dog run, in my new house we gave over the side of the house to Tyson, he had a kennel and about 15ft by 25ft of pebbled area to run in, now we have the four i'm giving over part of the back yard to them, doubling the space as well as a 10x8 foot shed (which has a dog hatch) and two kennels, a rain shelter and ton of toys/footballs - they also are walked morning for 30min and eveing for 1hour

ste2006

What do people think, would two dogs keep each other happier during the day or would the space be just too small for them????