Green Diesel Fine?

Hoffmans

theres advantages in running on the mgo its better quality than the whitewash and gives more power to the engine.. high performance tractors with 100k€ plus engines in them need the quality deisel mgo for performance .

L1011

ianobrien wrote: »

No it isn't

All "road" diesel sold here is Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and has a Sulphur content of 50ppm max. The fuel is passed through a scrubber to remove excess sulphur, as the typical sulphur content of unscrubbed fuel is 500ppm (depending on source of crude oil used)

The "green diesel" doesn't pass through the scrubber, as it's not for road use (operating the scrubber's expensive). The dye (Solvent Blue 79) is added as it's just a visual marker.

The difference between the fuels is the Sulphur content and the colour. They are the same other than that. I spent some time working in a lab in an oil refinary, and the only way to be sure of which fuel you had was by measuring the Sulphur content via X-Ray Fluorescence.

The damage to engines happens when laundered fuel is burned. The usual method of removing the dye is an acid wash. The problem is that they never neutalise the acid totally (or even remove it totally) and this causes havoc to modern high pressure pumps etc. Also, the byproduct from the acid wash is harmful to the environment and gets dumped at random. The sulphur content isn't reduced by the acid wash so you'll get caught anyway.

This is a country with one small refinery and very few import gantries - where, pray tell, is the sulphur scrubbing happening seeing as the diesel supplied to here is already sale-worthy? Add to that that we have a marker dye unused elsewhere and its quite clear its added after importation.

This isn't Norway, we don't have a "fuel industry", we have importers and retailers. Rather like our "motor industry", come to think of it.

paddysdream

as far as i know diesel dye is supplied by dowlings chemicals in tinryland co carlow
know a couple of lads who worked there and they delivered it all over the country as well as mixing it thru diesel on the premises
regarding tractor engines most modern ones are common rail and tier 3 compliant and are very fussy on fuel quality much more so than car engines

ianobrien

MYOB wrote: »

This is a country with one small refinery and very few import gantries - where, pray tell, is the sulphur scrubbing happening seeing as the diesel supplied to here is already sale-worthy? Add to that that we have a marker dye unused elsewhere and its quite clear its added after importation.

This isn't Norway, we don't have a "fuel industry", we have importers and retailers. Rather like our "motor industry", come to think of it.

It's been a few years since I worked in Whitegate, but then they used scrub the diesel fuel. Production used hate us in QC when we failed a batch of diesel on high sulphur content.

I know some fuel distributors used buy both petrol and diesel from Whitegate and others used buy petrol only. Others used bring in all their fuels pre-blended. I'm not going to mention names on the Internet of what companies used buy what from Whitegate. It's probably all changed now anyway.

L1011

Doesn't change that the vast, vast majority of fuel in Ireland never passes through Whitegate at all.

Whitegate can process about 1/4 of the countries demand at peak. As I said, we've one small refinery and a limited number of gantries for pre-refined fuel in ports - there isn't the option to get less refined diesel from them and anyway, modern tractors are Euro III or Euro IV and would get just as poisoned by high sulphur diesel as a car.

Any physical "dirt" in MGO these days as someone mentioned earlier in the thread is down to ****e storage - some of the tanks I've seen it in in ports and agri coops look to be in atrocious conditions.

ianobrien

Just to reinforce a point. The worst thing to burn is laundered diesel. Tha incomplete acid wash f**ks the pumps over time in modern diesels and revenue can still catch you through sulphur content.

Burning green diesel is fine in a vehicle that doesn't go on the road(it's illegal to use it on the road) but as MYOB pointed out, inappropriate storage can lead to problems and possible high water content

Just one other thing. The reason for the low sulphur levels in road diesel is to reduce acid rain. The sulphur is burned in the engine, producing SO2. This goes into the atmosphere where it reacts with water (thanks to UV light) to form H2SO3 and H2SO4, sulphurus and sulphuric acid.

roadm1ncer

Page 16 of the Sligo Weekender details court hearing of marked fuel found in suppliers tanks mixed in.

Doesn't make a difference if its the same or not, still wouldn't buy any fuel from such suppliers.

Run_to_da_hills

Now that the Green party is finished we should be allowed use their diesel.

Mar4ix

ha ha .. got a tip from one guy...
need use two tanks, regular fill half with proper diesel, and second tank with green one, and feed engine from second tank... original tank just keep with clean petrol station diesel. sorted

mikemac

Seen a few checkpoints with dipping in Tipperary, I believe they have a base in Thurles
Two of the checkpoints outside marts

You could save money sure in the short term but it depends how long you get away with it. One fine and there goes your savings. Plus you may be worrying as you drive around

One local station sells it but the pumps are locked, you have to go in and talk to the owner and he knows most of his customers

As well as the fine, a good chance you'll be getting letters from Revenue about an audit as well if caught

Fey!

Mar4ix wrote: »

ha ha .. got a tip from one guy...
need use two tanks, regular fill half with proper diesel, and second tank with green one, and feed engine from second tank... original tank just keep with clean petrol station diesel. sorted

How many miles would you have to drive to break even on that particular scam?

I thought that green diesel caused the exhaust emissions to be much blacker due to the burning of the dye, and that that was one of the indicators to the authorities.

Mar4ix

Fey! wrote: »

How many miles would you have to drive to break even on that particular scam?

I thought that green diesel caused the exhaust emissions to be much blacker due to the burning of the dye, and that that was one of the indicators to the authorities.

i am not using diesel car....petrol only, just were speaking about that green diesel in other forum. I never liked any diesel car.... sound and smell is terrible, no point of saving those pennies, more less fine are brand new cars.. but only for short time.

keithclancy

roadm1ncer wrote: »

Page 16 of the Sligo Weekender details court hearing of marked fuel found in suppliers tanks mixed in.

Doesn't make a difference if its the same or not, still wouldn't buy any fuel from such suppliers.

CJhaughey

Mar4ix wrote: »

ha ha .. got a tip from one guy...
need use two tanks, regular fill half with proper diesel, and second tank with green one, and feed engine from second tank... original tank just keep with clean petrol station diesel. sorted

Yep but any hint of this and they will remove your injector lines at the fuel filter and check there.
Don't be fooled Customs have seen all the scams and are wise to them.
Its one thing to have green diesel or traces of green, a whole other thing to have a setup to be avoiding getting caught.
My BIL was pulled over and checked and they found traces of the marker in his fuel, he was able to show that the bulk delivery he had just got had been contaminated by the supplier and was able to avoid prosecution.
They undid his fuel lines at the side of the road to check that he was running the same fuel.

Mar4ix

CJhaughey wrote: »

Yep but any hint of this and they will remove your injector lines at the fuel filter and check there.
Don't be fooled Customs have seen all the scams and are wise to them.
Its one thing to have green diesel or traces of green, a whole other thing to have a setup to be avoiding getting caught.
My BIL was pulled over and checked and they found traces of the marker in his fuel, he was able to show that the bulk delivery he had just got had been contaminated by the supplier and was able to avoid prosecution.
They undid his fuel lines at the side of the road to check that he was running the same fuel.

if they undo diesel lines, they let air in to system , what cause diesel high pressure pump damage (a specially opel diesel engines are very sensitive), veeery expensive stuff . I do not drive diesel car, and i don't give a .... you know yourself .

keithclancy

CJhaughey wrote: »

Yep but any hint of this and they will remove your injector lines at the fuel filter and check there.
Don't be fooled Customs have seen all the scams and are wise to them.
Its one thing to have green diesel or traces of green, a whole other thing to have a setup to be avoiding getting caught.
My BIL was pulled over and checked and they found traces of the marker in his fuel, he was able to show that the bulk delivery he had just got had been contaminated by the supplier and was able to avoid prosecution.
They undid his fuel lines at the side of the road to check that he was running the same fuel.

Wow .. nice .. If that was my car i'd be calling a tow truck, or would be trying to fashion some sort of vacuum device out of a bicycle pump.

Having an Airlock doesnt damage the fuel pump, its fairly normal to have to turn the engine over a few times anyway to get it going after you bleed the fuel line

david....

i just read this and i find it very intreasting iv never used green myself

but i know several people using it on jeeps , cavaliers , vento's, liteace vans etc, and never gave them trouble and they have all got away with it aswell bar one who got an on the spot fine of 250 euros in his transit.

im wondering would green destroy anything in a 05 1.9 tdi passat?
and how much would you save per fill?

Matt Simis

david.... wrote: »

and how much would you save per fill?

Lol, dont you do maths?
(Price of diesel times the tank size) minus (Price of Agri Diesel times the tank size)

Stinicker

david.... wrote: »

i just read this and i find it very intreasting iv never used green myself

but i know several people using it on jeeps , cavaliers , vento's, liteace vans etc, and never gave them trouble and they have all got away with it aswell bar one who got an on the spot fine of 250 euros in his transit.

im wondering would green destroy anything in a 05 1.9 tdi passat?
and how much would you save per fill?

Agricultural Diesel is the exact same fuel as Road Diesel and is compliant with all Environmental Regulations as new Tractors have to comply with emissions targets like cars, the difference is the dye and the reduction in price. It is no different to ordinary diesel, the dangerous fuel is washed fuel which is illegally laundered Green Diesel with the dye removed using sulphuric acid, this stuff will cause you the world of problems and you'd be better off on Green or White than this because normal Diesel will not be contaminated.

Agri Diesel ranges from 90 to 95c a litre multiplied by 60 litres for a Passat would be €54 for a full tank compared to Road Diesel @ €1.48/litre = €89 a fill, you'd be making an illegal saving of €35 a tank or 39%

A fuel tank costs about €300 to €400 but it allows for greater savings per litre compared to the pump as you usually get a reduction for bulk purchases and it allows you to hedge your fuel, my parents are driving around at €1.15/litre for the last 8 months thanks to bulk purchasing and fuel hedging. Alternatively you could buy the Diesel by the five gallon drum full in your local oil depot.

What you need to ask yourself would you consider it worth it? The cost savings compared to the risks of getting caught, the illegality and risk of prosecution.

I don't believe anyone should use green diesel it if at all possible however with the punitive levels of taxation and if a person was to the wall to pay for his home, feed his family and keep his head above water then I'd have alot more understanding than some person using it in a BMW or a 2011 Toyota Landcruiser simply because they are too cheap to buy the fuel after paying €50k+ for the car, the poor chap in a diesel 1997 carina going to work in his minimum wage job getting screwed by the Government for everything then I could understand his plight.

shawnee

Have heard a few stories of guys/girls ending up with green diesel in their tanks without knowing it. Recently a friend serviced a car for a lady and showed me the diesel that he had drained from it and it had a very strong tinge of green. She swears that she buys all her diesel at the pumps but some of these operators are selling this stuff mixed. There are a few places have opened up around here selling diesel only, no credit cards and are merely renting the place. I had a problem with dodgy diesel in my Mondeo and the mechanic put it down to the quality of the diesel.:o

Our man in Havana

There is big money to be saved if you have the balls. If you have been at it for years the odd €250 fine is not going to eat that much into the savings you have had over the years of using green.

Esel

Isn't the maximum fine €2,500? I read somewhere that the vehicle can be seized for a second offence.

Our man in Havana

It may well be but they will often settle for a cash payment of around €250 at the side of the road.

Run_to_da_hills

I wonder if someone that was colour blind get away with driving with green diesel if he said he couldn't see the difference.

Esel

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I wonder if someone that was colour blind get away with driving with green diesel if he said he couldn't see the difference.

Nah, 'cos they do an iris scan. :eek: Thought you would have known that . . . .

Hal1

So it will be "Blow into this" and "Look into this sir" at the checkpoints :pac:.

johnos1984

Many taxi's and cars around the border which are subject to customs checks often on both sides of the border are know to have a second fuel tank.....

brennarr

Whats the price difference between green diesel and normal diesel. Is it a significant difference to risk it?

maxer68

shawnee wrote: »

Have heard a few stories of guys/girls ending up with green diesel in their tanks without knowing it. Recently a friend serviced a car for a lady and showed me the diesel that he had drained from it and it had a very strong tinge of green. She swears that she buys all her diesel at the pumps but some of these operators are selling this stuff mixed. There are a few places have opened up around here selling diesel only, no credit cards and are merely renting the place. I had a problem with dodgy diesel in my Mondeo and the mechanic put it down to the quality of the diesel.:o

That is Bullsh1t.

But road diesel can come in different colouring depending on whether it was made from a heavy oil or a light oil and the time of year..

All diesel in Ireland is the same, comes form same refineries and sometimes some brands add a lillte of what they call magic potion to theirs, but apart from that there is zero difference between diesel from Topaz, Applegreen, Amber, Texaco etc.

niall_f

You can save a lot through this but also if gardai will catch you than you may have problems and pay big fine, but i think it's viable and you should try : )